From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 813
Date: Sunday, December 02, 2001 8:05 PM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Red DeLorean with a pedigree
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

2. ! DMC "WISHLIST" POLL !
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>

3. LIVE THE DREAM COMMERCIAL ON DVD?
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>

4. Re: Remote Starter
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

5. Free Copies of DeLorean Literature?
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>

6. weather seals, and door alignment help
From: "James LaLonde" <krfds_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Re: Remote Starter
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

8. Re: Gold Plated Sun Star Update
From: stephen_at_dml_bttf.com

9. Re: heli-coils in rear hub carrier
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net

10. sunstar delorean customizing
From: P12C16_at_dml_aol.com

11. Re: Remote Starter
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

12. Heated Door Struts?
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

13. Re: Red DeLorean with a pedigree
From: gmfm1_at_dml_att.net

14. Brake Lights
From: theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com

15. Re: Remote Starter
From: gmfm1_at_dml_att.net

16. MODERATOR NOTE - Tony's PJ GRady thread
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

17. PJ Grady
From: Watkins Family <watbmv_at_dml_megalink.net>

18. RE: PJ Grady Apology (sad dmc)
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>

19. Re: Follow up! Sad DeLorean Story.....
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

20. Re: PJ Grady Apology (sad dmc)
From: Michael Z <michaelzkqkq_at_dml_yahoo.com>

21. the whole story(sad DMC) Very Long
From: dmc_delorean_2000_at_dml_yahoo.com

22. Re: Remote Starter / Fan Delay
From: Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>

23. RE: Free Copies of DeLorean Literature?
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

24. Door struts
From: jimbo0946_at_dml_aol.com

25. Re: Brake Lights
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:05:32 EST
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Red DeLorean with a pedigree

In a message dated 12/1/01 11:15:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, Whalt_at_dml_att.net 
writes:


> I just met a guy named John Johnson from Ohio who had a red DeLorean with
> him at a cruise-in car show in Tampa.  He claims that this car was painted
> red by the dealership that JZD's brother owned in Cincinnati and that he
> bought it in 1985.  The way he described it, it sounded like it was once a
> personal car of JZD's brother

I would like to clear up a few things here
Johns brother Charles owns a dealership in Cleveland not Cincinnati and it is 
now run by Mark DeLorean.

Charles DeLorean sold me his personal DeLorean some years back and I have the 
title and pictures to prove it.  Mark has a red car and still does and they 
had it painted.  Where I do not know.  From what Charles told me he only had 
the one car as did Mark and Jody (who recently sold hers) 

There are a number of dealer owned Deloreans that were bought after DeLorean 
went out of business by DeLorean Caddilac that were resold and it is probable 
that this car is one of these.  As far as the paint anyone can paint a car so 
if the same place did it as did Marks car then the paint job is a real good 
one.

If he has a title and documentation from Charles and the Dealership it 
probably has some additional value.  At least I though so when I bought my 
car from Charles DeLorean.  But I enjoy the car and have no intentions on 
selling it so future value was not anything I was worried about.

Most of the DeLorean cars were repurchased form owners after Delorean went 
out of business.  Mine was repurchased by the dealer from a lady who wanted 
her money back after the company went out of business.  Charles bought it and 
it became his personal car although he used it very little.  I bought mine 
with 2368 miles on it.  Jody's car was the same and it had about 2000 miles.  
I don't knwo how many miles are on Marks but he uses his more so its bound to 
be higher.

Hope that clears up a few things if not ask Mark at Memphis.   I saw him last 
week and he is looking forward to attending.

Ken






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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 17:59:49 +0100
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>
Subject: ! DMC "WISHLIST" POLL !

The poll has now been created with 25 alternatives! I'm really enthusiastic about this one, and I've also received many positive comments to do this effort. The poll runs until Dec. 20th, when the results will be automatically posted to this list. You can check as many alternatives as you like. Please participate in it - if there's enough interest for one or several products, then just MAYBE a vendor will make it available for us DMC owners and enthusiasts. Come on, there are over a 1000 listmembers - take your time and VOTE! Only a big participation will make this a success... This may be your chance to really convince the vendors what might be a success for both them and us.

Go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/polls

Yours sincerely,
Mr. Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759


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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 18:46:41 +0100
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>
Subject: LIVE THE DREAM COMMERCIAL ON DVD?

As we're already in the electronic age, wouldn't it be nice to have the LIVE THE DREAM COMMERICAL available on DVD?

But there's one problem, the videos being offered on EBAY are of poor quality. Does anyone know where the original reels are of these commercials? I believe them to be 16mm.

Every member of this group should try and find out where the original film is! Remember, tomorrow the commercial will be one day older and harder to find...Its time to act now! Who knows...as time goes by they may be lost forever! We, the DeLorean Community, can't sit still and watch this unfold. Its time to secure the history!

I guess someone could contact the commercial bureau that made the film (if still in business) or check with television studios etc.

I believe the commercials have been seen partly in documentaries produced by the major TV stations, incl. BBC in England.

In Norway where I live, we have a very nice system. Whatever is being produced for the public, you have to send one copy to our National Archive, be it print or film. Does USA/England have a system like this? The National Archive's mission is to provide insight in to the country's history etc. It's great :-) So - Look to Norway! :-)

And please - if you have a good quality copy of the commercials - please tell the list about it, and someone here can probably help you in getting transferred it professionally to DVD.

Would make the perfect Christmas gift, don't you think?

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759


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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 10:58:55 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Remote Starter

James,
Every time I read an advertisement for one of these devices, I question how
it can work reliably in an older car.  My new car just needs a second to
crank, and it starts every time.  But sometimes when my DeLorean is cold and
having one of those intermittent starting problems (that always cures itself
by the time I get under the hood to find out what is causing it) it helps to
turn the a/c off to get those radiator fans to shut off for a moment.  That
usually gives the engine enough slack to get running good.

To 'simulate' this electronically & automatically, you could install a delay
circuit.  To really do it right, you would need to have the delay only
activate for a short duration while & after the car is starting.  If it
worked every time the radiator fans came on, then it would interfere with
their operation.

I suggest building a delay circuit that triggers 'off' for say 10 to 20
seconds when the ignition first switches on.  Have this interrupt the
radiator fan circuit or maybe you could hook it to the a/c controls so that
it would kill the a/c blower too.  I have installed similar ready-made
timers that would do this job on various appliances that need delays -- such
as to stop a refrigerator compressor from coming back on immediately after
being switched off.  (Without a rest for the refrigerant pressure to
dissipate, it would restart under too high a load and overheat the motor.)
These are available at Grainger (a wholesale appliance parts distributor in
the U.S.)  You buy a standard module and snip wires according to what the
input voltage needs to be -- 120V, 24V, 12V.  The output is a SPDT relay, so
it can switch either 'on' or 'off' depending on what you need.  There is a
potentiometer to adjust the delay from 1 second to 3 minutes.  If you are
technically minded, you could build your own delay device using a 555 timer
or an RC circuit.  I am better at repairing than designing, so I would
rather buy a standard module or copy something out of a project book from
Radio Shack.  If you have one in your area, look at a project booklet
titled, "Engineer's Mini-Notebook 555 Timer IC Circuits".  Catalog #
276-5010.

I would expect that a well designed remote starter would have some delay
circuits like this already built in.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 18:35:39 +0100
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>
Subject: Free Copies of DeLorean Literature?

Hi,
Here's a suggestion - I think we should try and make more original DMC info available on www.dmcnews.com 
Since these are publications of a company no longer in business, no copyright would exist I believe.

Occasionally, there are quite a few memorabilia pieces of the DMC History, being offered on EBAY.
I for instance, have the DeLorean Salesman Fact Booklet. Yet, I have no problems in copying this for those who don't have it. I don't (and I believe many with me) don't get any happier by sitting on it/hiding it from other owners and enthusiasts.

The best way to make these scarce publications available would be in Adobe Acrobat (*.pdf format)
I will try and do this when Christmas time is closing in (more time on my hands).

I even got an original press release from DMC when the DeLorean was first shown to the public at the Geneva Motor Show in 1981. 

One day ago, someone (hopefully from the DML) got the last bid on a rare DeLorean Transporters Handbook being offered on EBAY.

Now, what I like to know is:
1) Would you care to SHARE your DMC memorabilia literature and make it available on the DMCNEWS website for anyone to see? If no, why?

2) Would other list members (who don't have this literature) be interested in getting them FREE at DMCNEWS' webpage?

As far as I'm concerned, the value of the literature is having the original literature yourself. I don't believe they would be of less value if being offered in an electronic form. Besides, the literature is only valuable if you sell it on, but DeLorean owners/enthusiasts don't do that or? We keep the pieces as part of our cars... at least that's the way I see it.

Ok, looking forward to get many replies to my posting.

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759


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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 14:13:21 -0500
From: "James LaLonde" <krfds_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: weather seals, and door alignment help

i just installed new door seals on the car and now, after the doors have
been sitting in the up position for a day and a half the passenger side door
is horribly mis-aligned. from the top it looks like the door's 'roof '
section is sitting too far forward toward the windshield, and when closed
the doorseems too tight in the front and too far out, or loose, in the back.

could leaving the doors open for 1.5 days do this? my workshop manual isn't
very clear on alligning the door, can someone help me out a bit more. could
it be the weather seals 'pushing' the doors out of place?

oh yeah, i used the earlier vin's door seal design, my car is a june 81

-james lalonde



_________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get your free _at_dml_yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com






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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 14:06:48 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Remote Starter

James, If you have a good hot battery, the car shouldn't have to struggle. 
You may want to look in to and alternator. Without a good alternator, the 
battery may never be good and hot. Most batteries are good for about 3 years. 
I know some will or may last longer, but I mean for optimum performance, 3 
years.  I recommend at least a good 850cca battery even though a lesser will 
do.
John hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/alternators.shtml



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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 19:07:22 -0000
From: stephen_at_dml_bttf.com
Subject: Re: Gold Plated Sun Star Update

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Jack Stiefel" <jack_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> Anyone have an update on the Gold Plated Sun Star models?  I see
> that the others have been selling fast.

Sunstar has the Gold DeLorean (#2702) listed in their 2002 catalog.  
Last we heard, they weren't planning on putting them out until around 
April, as they're going to do a second batch of the BTTF DeLoreans in 
January for a February release (different collector's box, smaller 
Mr. Fusion, etc.).

Stephen Clark
BTTF.com





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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 19:54:39 -0000
From: jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net
Subject: Re: heli-coils in rear hub carrier

On race cars and aircraft with aluminum parts it is very common to put 
thread inserts in at the time of manufacture. It allows a higher 
torque without risking pulling out the threads from the aluminum. Why 
it was done for the rear caliper anchor bolts I can only guess that 
since the Delorean is mostly a car of sourced parts that were already 
tooled up by manufacurers these parts were modified to suit this 
particular application. There are very few parts out of all the parts 
the car is made up of that were specifically made for the Delorean. Of 
course body panels and frame and trim are Delorean specific, but as 
far as electrical and mechanical parts go, the majority are found 
interchangeble with something else. Why they used English when they 
could have used a metric insert and bolt is weird.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> In the process of replacing my rear brakes (I finally made some time 
to work
> on it today, yeaaa!) I noticed that the bolt holes in the rear hub 
carrier
> that hold the brake calipers on had heli-coil inserts in them.  My 
immediate
> thought was that some previous mechanic stripped the threads and did 
a





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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 15:35:10 EST
From: P12C16_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: sunstar delorean customizing

Does anyone have any ideas on how to make a door pull strap for the sunstar 
that matches the interior color?  What materials would work well?  Anyone 
else done any other special mods?

Patrick



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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 21:37:05 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Re: Remote Starter

Get a better battery.  I have a remote starter in mine and it does the 
same thing.  But I've never had a problem with it starting when the 
fans and everything else are running.  If you want the fans to delay, 
a Fanzilla would do that.  The delay would be very momentary, but it 
might just be enough.  Good luck.

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
DMC-6960

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., dmc12_at_dml_b... wrote:
> Hi all, 
> The only problem with this is that when the ignition turns on the 
> aircon fans start going immediately and the car often struggles to 
> start or does not start. 
> Is there anyway delaying the fans from coming on straight away or do 
> I just need a better battery, I think mine is pretty old.
> James RG
> Woodford
> UK




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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 13:52:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: Heated Door Struts?

I was thinking the other day about door launchers and cold weather. Even
here in California, the door launchers would only be effective during the
warm months (unless you adjust your tortion bars with the changing
seasons), and in the cold months, the doors would half-open.

I know nothing about gas struts, but would it be possible to create either
an internal or an external temp control for them? Either some sort of heat
coil inside the strut or a heat pad sleve that you could slide around the
outside of the strut?

-Christian 3452




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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 22:34:08 -0000
From: gmfm1_at_dml_att.net
Subject: Re: Red DeLorean with a pedigree

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I just met a guy named John Johnson from Ohio who had a red 
DeLorean with
> him at a cruise-in car show in Tampa.  > 
> Walt    Tampa, FL

Dear Walt,
     John may have more than one brother, but the brother that I know 
about owned a Cadillac Dealership in Lakewood, Ohio which is north of 
Cleveland. The phone number is 216-226-2250. If you want to call and 
speak to Mark Delorean, John's nephew, he maybe able to answer your 
questions.
Happy Holidays,
Gary Masie




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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 22:47:08 -0000
From: theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: Brake Lights

Put my D in winter storage today.  I noticed my brake lights weren't
working correctly.  When the headlights were on, both tail lamps
would come on. With the headlights off, & the brake pedal depressed,
neither of the right brake lights would come on, but the tail light
illuminated. On the left side, only the inner brake light would come
on. I have soldered stock tail light boards.  Would this have anything
to do with the fact that I ran the car thru the car wash just before
putting it away & the boards could have gotten wet?  When I get it
back out in the spring, I will get out the wiring diagram & a test
light & take the tail lights off & check what is getting power when.
I know the stock boards are known to do some strange things, but
has anyone ever had this happen?

John Yeoman





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Message: 15
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 22:52:36 -0000
From: gmfm1_at_dml_att.net
Subject: Re: Remote Starter

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., dmc12_at_dml_b... wrote:
> Hi all, 
> 
> This is a bit of a weird one!
> 
> I have a remote starter which I installed in my DeLorean in the 
> summer for no real practical purpose, just to show off really.
> 

 Dear James,
    I trust that you have an automatic, because remote starters 
shouldn't be used on manuals. Fan Zilla will cycle the fans on one at 
a time after the A/C is engaged. This is the only item that I am 
aware of that does what you want. It can be purchased from P.J. 
Grady's and I believe some other vendors. It is a straight pull out 2 
relays and plug in the 2 plugs from the device. The control unit then 
slips in the open space of the relay compartment behind the passenger 
seat.
Happy motoring,
Gary Masie




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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 22:58:50 -0000
From: "David Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: MODERATOR NOTE - Tony's PJ GRady thread

Following this note will be a final flurry of posts on this topic, 
ending up with Tony's second attempt at an explanation. Being the end 
of the week, it's a good time to end it. Rather than alienate and 
chase him away and/or criticize his lifestyle, we should be helping 
him to get over and understand the issue. Tony has apologized to 
those who took offense, let's accept it and move on. 

Dave (Moderator for the weekend)




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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 12:11:07 -0500
From: Watkins Family <watbmv_at_dml_megalink.net>
Subject: PJ Grady

Tony,

There are many ways to upset a group.  One is to slam one of the people
in that community that is well respected and trusted.   Your post seems
to do all of this.   If you had a bad experience with Rob there must be
something else going on here.    My car was bought for $13,500 and I
have spent around $5,000 with Rob.  His *only* thought is to make a car
as good as it can be within the owners budget.   If you spelled
everything out in the beginning there should have been no problem.

When I go to Rob I say...."O.k.,  I've got  X amount of dollars for this
trip I have saved for repairs"   Rob does his level best to stay within
those guidelines.  If he finds something wrong that may change that he
has *always* consulted me prior to doing the work.   It's *always* been
a matter of "lets fix this issue as it's more important and put one of
the other items on your list on a back burner"    I had a VOLVO repair
shop tell me that they needed to DRILL through my frame to remove some
broken off studs in the head.  I called Rob and he said "No way!"

If Rob says your car is a certain condition then it is accurate.  You
got ripped off by the person you bought it from not from Rob Grady.  How
many DeLoreans have you worked on?  How many DeLoreans have you sat in
and driven and taken apart?  Rob doesn't need your money that badly to
rip you off.   How can you take the word of a mechanic who has probably
no idea of the overall systems in a DeLorean and hold that against a man
who could take one of these cars apart blindfolded?   Please relax and
understand that you are in good Hands with Rob.  If money is an object,
*tell him* up front.   Yeah, I usually leave spending more than I wanted
too but he didn't twist my arm or *make* me spend more money.   Any
overage was my own fault for wanting just a few more little things done
before I drove back to Maine.

I get SO tired of vendor slamming on this list.  Yes, even against Ed.
We are too small a community to in-fight.  Got a beef? take it up with
the person.  But do your homework first.

Tom
#005732






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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 13:58:58 -0500
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>
Subject: RE: PJ Grady Apology (sad dmc)

If you would have taken his advice at that point, you probably would
have saved yourself a lot of aggravation and money.

You claim the car was in good shape when you purchased it, but I find
that hard to believe.  It may have LOOKED good, but it seems obvious to
me that you missed some major problems on the car.

I have seen a number of "good looking" deloreans where on closer
inspection it turns out be a parts car that just happens to run by some
miracle.

Decide if you want to cut your losses, or fix up the car.  If you choose
to fix it then be prepared for a BIG BILL, and get the car away from the
moron who has it now to bring it back to Grady.


-----Original Message-----
From: dmc_delorean_2000_at_dml_yahoo.com [mailto:dmc_delorean_2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 1:07 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] PJ Grady Apology (sad dmc)

<SNIP>
reason when i brought my car to him i was like the exception. i was 
blowing off steam and was mad (especialy when he tells me over the 
phone that its the worst car hes ever seen and that its not worth 
anything.) we also had some communication problems so that would 
<SNIP>



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Message: 19
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 14:02:35 -0500
From: "Walter" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Follow up! Sad DeLorean Story.....

[Note to moderator -- this may be a bit long and personal sounding, but I
think that many other young guys on the list wanting to get a DeLorean would
benefit from reading it.]

Dear Mr. DMC delorean 2000,

For starters, start using a real name!

Here is my theory about you: From the way you describe your situation, it
sounds like you are dealing with your car in a passive/observational
capacity.  Your father is in charge of repairs and tells you his
interpretation of what mechanics tell him.  You then post this information
(third person) to the DML, and by the time we read it (being interpreted a
4th time), much of it sounds way off base which makes some of us question
whether or not you really even have a DeLorean and just making this stuff
up.  It reminds me of a "3rd Rock from the Sun" episode.

About your transmission:  It sounds like you have an automatic with a bad
shift computer.  So naturally it would make sense to a layman to bring it to
AAMCO -- a transmission specialist.  However, as you are learning, the
DeLorean is a pretty unique car, and few 'professional' mechanics are cool
enough to say that they are not knowledgeable enough to take on a repair --
especially when they have a chance to tinker with something that looks like
a lot of fun while getting paid for it.

There were no other cars marketed in the U.S. that use the same transmission
as the DeLorean.  Consequently, transmission gaskets and filters are just
about impossible to find except from a DeLorean specialist.  Likewise, the
shift computer is also unusual, and even a 'professional' could have trouble
understanding it.  The mechanic at AAMCO is probably motivated by wanting to
prove that he can fix it and thus earn what he has already charged you for.
Unfortunately, this guy is so stupid that he is proposing to convert your
automatic transmission into a half-ass manual.  Is this the same guy who
wants to swap out your engine?  Tell him you want to swap out your mechanic.
I doubt that anything good can come from having guys like this work on your
car.  If you continue to deal with these guys, I suggest only letting them
do things that a DeLorean specialist would direct them to do over the phone.
If necessary, I would arrange to pay a specialist consultation fees to talk
your mechanic through the proper procedures.

About the key broke off in your lock:  According to your VIN, your car
should have the all black early '81 style two-key system door locks.  This
means that the key that fits your doors only fits your doors and no other
locks on your car.  These locks are fragile and break easily.  It would not
be unlikely that one of these locks could break while your car was at PJ
Grady.  A more likely scenario would be that the lock jammed rather than a
key breaking off in it.  But once jammed, the key won't go in anymore.  This
could make you think that someone left a piece of a key broke off inside.
These locks are difficult (if not impossible) to repair the internal parts.
While DMC was in business, the authorized warranty repair procedure was to
simply replace the locks with those used on the later model cars (the
one-key system).  Since so many of these locks break, the supply of OEM
upgrade replacements ran low and became pricey.  Now the vendors are selling
custom made reproductions which are still expensive, but they earn it going
to the trouble to have these made for us.  Installing these locks is time
consuming since part of the door skin needs to have notches cut.  Also the
locks need to be keyed to match the rest of your car.  I imagine that a
vendor would want well over $300 for this repair.

To quote your recent post, Rob Grady said your car is "the worst car hes
ever seen and that its not worth anything."  I assume that this is a loose
paraphrase at best.  Every DeLorean is worth a lot of money in parts.  I
recently paid $500 for one that was missing the body and was left for years
partially buried with vines growing all over it.  I have since made my money
back out of it: angle drive, steering rack, suspension pieces, etc.  Back to
your car: If you continue to allow a 'professional' mechanic to work on this
car, and his only resources are his basic knowledge of common cars and the
parts he can find at a local auto parts store -- then add the determination
to make it work -- you will end up with a car that is hacked to pieces.
Many people enjoy this type of challenge, and I am guilty of doing similar
things to my car to a small extent.  But I try to make my modifications
reversible and only do things that rectify a factory weak spot or defect
while still looking properly done.  It can be very time consuming &
expensive to deal with someone else's hacking.  It sounds natural that a guy
like this would want to replace your engine with something more common --
something that he can find parts for.

You are young and sound like you could learn to be your own mechanic if you
put your mind to it.  If you are this sort of person, then I suggest you ask
your father for a nice set of mechanic's tools & manuals to go along with
this car.  Tell him it is for your education and to help you become more
self-sufficient.  I would do this for any son of mine before I would buy him
an unusual car.  You could become more proficient at writing technical
letters asking for advice online and develop your communication skills.
Once you are experienced with a particular repair on these cars, then you
can write technical letters for others giving advice.  That sort of
education is hard to learn in school.

Granted that I haven't seen your car, (and assuming that it is a bit hacked
up), I would assume that the highest and best use for it would be for
someone with time on his hands to take the time necessary to learn the
peculiarities of the car and repair/restore it himself.  This may or may not
describe you.  Guys who use these cars on a regular basis are either good
mechanics or have a close relationship with a specialist.  Once the major
weak spots & factory defects are worked out, your problems should be no
worse (really even fewer) than most other cars.  If this doesn't describe
you, then either have the car restored by a vendor or sell it for what you
can.

As you said yourself, communication is a problem.  Make sure your father
understands what you want and what your motivations are before he (or anyone
else) makes decisions for you.  You can start by showing him your posts and
replies you get on the DML.  I think he would be proud and eager to help.

Let us know how it turns out.
Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 20
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:54:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Z <michaelzkqkq_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: PJ Grady Apology (sad dmc)

Hey there....

I just had to say something here... its kind of funny
that "a standard mechanic" would try and tell an
excellent, maybe beyond excellent, mechanic like PJ
how to fix a delorean.

I will not take my Delorean to a mechanic because I
don't live around any in this area.  I can go and quiz
any regular "ASE Certified" mechanic and they almost
all think the DMC is a GM, and has Ford parts... how
stupid is that?

I can say that PJ, whenever I have called, has always
been a great help.  DMC Houston as well, and I cannot
forget the most valuable one (to me anyway), which is
DMCJoe.

Funny story (maybe not funny??) - this summer I was
driving my Delorean at lunch to show it to a
co-worker.  In NM, it gets HOT... well, the D wouldn't
start after I sat at her house for about 20 min
showing it to her... one call to DMCJoe, and he said,
"lift up the back, right next to the bla bla bla, on
the left, there is a blue, bla bla bla - un-plug it.)

I did, and now I no longer have a hot-start problem.

You should feel lucky to live within 60 miles of a
Delorean mechanic like PJ.  I wished I lived in
Atlanta again so I could take mine to DMCJoe when it
has problems.

But instead - I buy what I need, and I call the
various people for advice, or post messages here (this
place is invaluable).

Sure - it may take me 2 hours to do a 15 minute job,
but I *KNOW* it was done with care, and my car wasn't
used as a shelf for some wrenches - and I won't get in
to the car finding cigarette burns and have them tell
me it was "me", and I don't even smoke.

In closings - hats off to PJ, DMC Houston, DMCJoe, and
the people who make up this list.

Mike
Vin 855



--- dmc_delorean_2000_at_dml_yahoo.com wrote:
 me and my 
> mechanic have to get the facts, because hes telling
> me that I was 
> riped off and that none of the parts in the engine
> are remotly new 
> and i get fustrated. but if anyone from PJ Grady
> comes across any of 
> my messages, this is my message to you and the
> staff: i appoligize if 


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Message: 21
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 21:18:05 -0000
From: dmc_delorean_2000_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: the whole story(sad DMC) Very Long

MODERATOR NOTE - End of Thread. 

(to the moderator: i know the post are supposed to be short but this 
story must be told in its entirety to be understood more clear, and 
clear up some confusion about my previous posts)

ok
its long but some still dont believe me so here goes.
heres the begining to my tragic story. my father who used to be a 
wealthy man bought me my balck interior, automatic transmission DMC 
for a total of $15,500 to be exact. the car had a perfect interior(no 
rips, stains or anything), a perfect exterior(beautiful stainless 
dent free) and a very nice running motor(only 32k on it). i said this 
is the one. i am the third owner. my father who owned several classic 
cars, 2 1961 Rolls Royces for his limo business, 1 1951 Bentley and 
a '78 Midget, took all of these cars to his foreign car mechanic. 

every time he took a car some where he would tell them FIX IT, not 
what needs to be fixed just fix it. now when i got my dmc and it 
needed repairs he took it to the foriegn mechanic. so yes i guess you 
can say they could smell the money on him. but when ever we took it 
to a mechanic i would tell him exactly or what i would think was 
wrong with it. the first time i needed it serviced was the first week 
i had overheated a few times and the mechanic said the fans dont 
work. so he put in a swith to turn on the fans because he said he 
didnt want go into the fuse pannel. 

you dont realize how much you  spend untill you go back and look. its lots of little services but  the major ones realy get you. so in brief, $7k at PJ + $3000 AAMCO +  rest in misc. repairs at small shops ie. cooling fans, A/C recharge  and seal up leak, A/C Fan, + more eventualy adding up to the remaing  of a $12k of total repairs. 

i never wanted to send it to aamco. i  started experiencing some tranny problems, small ones and my father  got worried ( slipping out of gear sometimes, starting off in second  gear) so he sends it to another mechanic of his and tells him the  tranny was acting up. he sent it to him because he replace a tranny  on his Eldorado a few weeks eairlier, and my father trusted him and  so did i. little did my father know that the mechanic he took the car 
to does not repair trannys, but he will replace them. the mechanic send it to a friend of his who owns an AAMCO. i come home from school one day and go to my father looking for the Delorean. he says its in the shop getting the tranny rebuilt, im glad its going to be fixed but im mad because he did it without even telling me. so me and my father go to the mechanic and he tells us he sent it to aamco. we were both mad now because my father who delt with this mechanic many times trusted him, not some guy he never even met before. and thats when it all happened. my father stoped using the stuborn foriegn mechanic because he was over charging us, this mechanic was our regular. 

it took them a long time to rebuild it but the day finaly 
came when it was done. that day i got it back i went for a ride 
around town. i was angry though because while the tranny was being 
rebilt the aamco guy backed into a rock scraping most of the paint 
off the rear fiberglass but no real damage just no paint. he said the 
pedals were too close together and he hit the gas instead of the 
brakes. not to worry he owns a paint shop and said he would repaint 
it when he got a chance. so im driving around for an hour when the 
tranny starts realy whining. i turn around to go back home when i 
find myself stuck in first gear about to redline, i let off the gas 
and stop at a light. i hear sizzling, i look behind me and see dark 
steam pouring out of my engine the temp needle is rising fast and i 
realized i was overheating. i pull over and call my father who called 
a tow truck. the car was immediatly towed back to the mechanic who 
sent it to aamco in the first place. this goes on a few times back 
and forth from aamco. 

as for my PJ grady experience, it all started when we first moved. i drove my car all the way from syosset to montauk that week with no problems. i get to my new house and as i pull in the drive way i hear a pop and the tranny whined. i thought the tranny was acting up agian but it was late so i went to bed. the next morning i go out to start the car and it was dead. i see the pass door open a little bit. i go to the back of the car to connect a battery charger to the engine(negitive) and the positive terminal. i see the belts dangaling and a pully stripped so it kept falling off. 

i said thats it im sending the car to the professionals (PJ Grady). 
i've heard a lot of good thing about him and i didnt want a mechanic 
to go in and mess up somthing else trying to fix it. i had 
experienced this problem befor and thought the pro should take care 
of it once and for all. now a while back i tried buying a part from 
PJ Grady but we ran into some problems. I ordered a new air filter 
cover and a car cover over the phone. my father gave me his credit 
card and i thought it went smoothly. after quite a while of no part i 
call up. they said the card declined so they sold the part to someone 
else. i say ok i want to reorder. they tell me no if you want it come 
pick it up and pay me cash (said rob). i say ok and i pick a day to 
make the trip. obviously i couldnt drive the car with no airfilter 
housing so i took my fathers caddy. i got a little lost but i finnaly 
made it. it came out to around $500 so i paid and left. 

back to the car. we call AAA to have it towed there. we call PJ and told him it 
was coming and what was wrong. my father and i take a trip a few days 
after it was towed to speak to rob in person. he was just leaving so 
he was rushing. he said he didnt even look at it yet. i told him that 
we wanted new belts, the messed up pully replaced and i told him 
about the cooling fans with the switch. he said ok ill look it over 
give you call with a few suggestions and if we agree to the estimate 
he do the work. my father signed the blank form gave our number and 
we left. 

this was january '01, no phone call for weeks. we tried 
calling him many times but he was never in or busy and would call us 
back. this goes on till late feb when he calls and says that he did 
alot of work, but wasnt finnished and so far the estimate was $10k. 

my father said not to do anything else and fax us the bill (we wanted 
to see what could possibly cost $10k) it was mainly lots of 
electrical and ignition work. he did so but it was $7k($10k was the 
estimate) and i went to DeLorean.com and checked the prices for 
almost all the parts, some i couldnt find. the prices pretty much 
checked out, but we were still in shock. 

we didnt want him to do all  that, but my father eventualy paid after a long few weeks of back and forth phone call disagreements. we told him to tow it back to us, because he has parkinsons and its hard for him to drive, and i didnt even have a full license yet, but he said no. we didnt want to argue so we sent a tow truck ourselves. he told us over the phone the he broke the key in the driverside door in the unlock position so the locks kept going on and off, so he disconnected them.he said the key was defective and he wasnt going to fix it. it was a copied key but always worked for me. the car was delivered to a mechanic in montauk where my father told him the story and he wanted to see for himself $7k worth of work.

now this mechanic never saw this kind of car before, but he knows 
enought that on any car when somthing is replaced you can tell. he 
said he saw nothing really new that would add up to $7k. he loked 
over the bill and said theres about $4k worth of parts and labor(PJ's 
labor which increased while he had the car). my father and i were 
furious, but we just said screw it we dont want to fight. 

around  april or may when the weather got warm the tranny started up again 
and i remembered aamcos warranty, so off it went. we kept calling him 
and going to him but he couldnt figure it out he said. he experienced 
the problem while driving but found nothing wrong with it 
mechanicaly. in september he went out of bussiness and the car went 
to the mechanic who sent it to the aamco in the first place. he 
called up several aamcos but nobody wanted to finish the car. the 
warranty was sson to expire so he called aamcos main office. the main 
office finaly forced someone to take it around november. they said it 
was a perfect tranny. 

i told them it only happens in the summer when its warm so it probably wont act up now. now comes trouble. the mechanic that sent it to aamco called us up and said the car wont start.the car was towed back to the mechanic where he looked it over. the problem was the ignition system was acting up. it was a burnt out ignition part that was as new as the car so it was not replaced anytime before that. he said the car runs horrible. i went there immediatly and went for a ride. 

all i can say is that if i didnt look at the license plate i would say that is not my car. nothing was the way it should be i.e. idle was going up and down, running was rough, tranny shifed too late and too early, it was a mess. the mechanic said the electrical system is shot. there are cut wires, burnt wires, wires leading to nowhere. he too siad there was no where near $7k of work. in its barley running stage in life it was towed back to aamco 20 miles away from that mechanic which is almost 90 miles away from me, where they can try to fix the tranny and give it back to the other mechnaic to try to get it running good again, where he will finaly send it back to me (E.T.A. 2006, not realy but it seems that way).

now the mechanic that has it now wants to speak to PJ and find 
out waht work he did on the car and if he did the work then why is it 
in the condition its in now. i am going to fax that mecanic my 10 
page PJ bill where he can study it and see what the heck is going on. 
maybe even send the car back to him only if covered by warrany or 
somthing, which my father does not want. he does not want to hear of 
PJ. if you had a car recently serviced by one of the best, came out 
with a bill of $7k when every mechanic says that he didnt do the all 
the work he claimed, then a few months later have a car that barley 
runs and is falling to peices before your very eyes. how would you 
feel? 

like i said this is just my side of this tragic story, and i 
dont want to offend anyone or cause any problems(im sure PJ has quite 
a story to tell of his side) this is my story and hope it answers a 
lot of questions, i didnt make any of it up nor did i in my previous 
posts. i left out some minor little things to make it as short as i 
can. now im sorry i didnt know i had to properly identify my previous 
posts so here i go

Tony
Vin# 002467 (my blunder of blunders)
Plate: BACK2FTR 
dmc_delorean_2000(AT)yahoo.com 




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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 00:46:24 +0100
From: Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>
Subject: Re: Remote Starter / Fan Delay

On Sun, 02 Dec 2001 12:44:49, James RG wrote:

> I have a remote starter which I installed in my DeLorean in the
> summer for no real practical purpose, just to show off really.
[snip]
> Is there anyway delaying the fans from coming on straight away or do
> I just need a better battery, I think mine is pretty old.

Have you allready installed FanZilla? This would give you some delay on the
fans, but you woudl still have the compressor engaged during starting...

Doesn't this remoate system have an extra output?
Then you could wire this up to engage the Compressor and fans
manually by remote once your car has started.

Good Luck,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

------------------------------

I will be changing e-mail adresses soon; please use <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl> from
now on. <jan_at_dml_vdwouw.demon.nl> will cease to work in the near future.




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Message: 23
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 18:05:45 -0600
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Free Copies of DeLorean Literature?

The issue is what happens to the value of the original
materials?  If I just spent $100 for something and you
make a copy available for free, I would not be very
happy about that if the thing I just bought became
essentially worthless.  Part of the reason some of these
materials get the prices they do is because they are
rare.

As long as the copies are clearly identified as copies,
there probably wouldn't be a problem.  Some form of
watermark on the pages would do the trick.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Stian Birkeland [mailto:delorean_at_dml_online.no]
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 11:36 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Free Copies of DeLorean Literature?


Hi,
Here's a suggestion - I think we should try and make more original DMC info
available on www.dmcnews.com
Since these are publications of a company no longer in business, no
copyright would exist I believe.





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Message: 24
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 19:28:35 EST
From: jimbo0946_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Door struts

Well, I guess it is finally time to replace the gas struts for the doors on my D.  I was wondering if I needed anything else besides the struts?  I heard that it is easy to install them too.  Is that true?  

Thanks,
Jim 
VIN#15880



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Message: 25
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 00:57:59 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Brake Lights

When you say you have soldered your boards, have you soldered ALL the rivets? I ask
because some of the bulb holders act as "bridges" between two tracks, in turn supplying
an earth to another bulb. I too had a similar problem, and the bulb in the holder in
question worked fine, but the rivet on its case supplying earth to another bulb was
dodgy.

I worked this out with a 12" piece of wire, stripped at each end, and touched each rivet
to the surrounding copper track. You soon find the problem

Actually, every time I get in the car at the moment, I stop half a mile down the road to
get out and thump the left hand indicator...:-) I'm lazy with electrical problems 'cos I
understand them!

Martin
#1458

theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com wrote:

> Put my D in winter storage today.  I noticed my brake lights weren't
> working correctly.  When the headlights were on, both tail lamps
> would come on. With the headlights off, & the brake pedal depressed,
> neither of the right brake lights would come on, but the tail light
> illuminated. On the left side, only the inner brake light would come
> on. I have soldered stock tail light boards.  Would this have anything
> to do with the fact that I ran the car thru the car wash just before
> putting it away & the boards could have gotten wet?  When I get it
> back out in the spring, I will get out the wiring diagram & a test
> light & take the tail lights off & check what is getting power when.
> I know the stock boards are known to do some strange things, but
> has anyone ever had this happen?
>
> John Yeoman




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