From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 824
Date: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:40 PM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:

To search the archives or view files, log in at

There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: Grounds
From: "DMC Joe" <>

2. Re: Prototype body dies?
From: Trevor Johnson <>

3. Re: Prototype body dies?
From: "DMC Joe" <>

4. New PRV-V6 engine from DMC Houston
From: "Stian Birkeland" <>

5. Re: Door struts and Gasoline
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>

6. Re: Prototype body dies?
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>

7. ADMIN: Monthly Reminder about the Rules of the List.
From: "David Swingle" <>

8. No-Miles DMC for Sale
From: "David Swingle" <>

9. Re: Torsion Bars reversed?
From: "tmpintnl" <>

10. Re: Re: Torsion Bars ReVisited

11. Parts Gone
From: "dherv10" <>

12. Re: DeLorean website now online !
From: "sebastain_valmont" <>

13. Buying a De Lorean
From: "Dan Trimble" <>

14. Accumalator
From: Nick Ryan <>

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 13:45:26 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Grounds

You said:
<The two that you really have to worry about are the one in front on the
frame >
<inside by the left front wheel and the "big" ones near the battery, engine,

You forgot one; the electrical compartment ground connection at the right
rear frame member.

Seasons Greetings
DeLorean Help
----- Original Message -----
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 10:19 AM
Subject: [DML] Re: Grounds

> I never made a list of ALL of the grounding points on the car. The two
> that you really have to worry about are the one in front on the frame
> inside by the left front wheel and the "big" ones near the battery,
> engine, starter. As to how to prevent problems after cleaning, you
> should inspect them "once in a while" and they could be coated with a
> compound to keep moisture off them so as to prevent corrosion. I don't
> really like to coat connections as it makes them harder to inspect and
> also messier when you do have to clean them. Whenever you have the car
> on a lift it is just one of the thngs to look at unless you are having
> problems, then just clean them. Bad ground connections can have a way
> of causing weird problems especially when more than one circuit is
> grounded at the same point. In these cases a "back feed" from one
> circuit into another can cause things that you could never think of!
> All metal surfaces of the connecters and frame MUST be clean and
> shinny and tight (no paint on the frame).
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Ed Garbade" <edgarbade_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> > Over the last few months I have been a member of this list, I keep
> seeing
> > reference to checking "all" the grounds.  Great idea; however, are
> these


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 11:24:24 -0800
From: Trevor Johnson <>
Subject: Re: Prototype body dies?

        The stainless steel panels that were used on the prototypes cars
were hand made. If you happen to own a copy of Stainless Steel Illusion,
they go into great depth about how the prototypes were built, and they
mention about how the different parts were manufactured.

Talk to you later

Trevor Johnson
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:


Message: 3
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:44:16 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Prototype body dies?


Pine die molds were used to press the first set of prototype stainless steel
body panels.

Seasons Greetings
DeLorean Help
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Coe" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 1:00 AM
Subject: [DML] Prototype body dies?

> Can anyone say how the stainless panels on the prototype bodies were made?
> Were they made using dies or by some other method?  I have never seen a
> prototype in person, but from the photos the body work appears to be
> excellent.  If they used dies to make these then it seems prohibitively
> expensive to make them up only to use them for a couple of cars.
> If they used dies then my next question is (naturally) where are they now?
> Just curious,
> Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 4
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 22:42:54 +0100
From: "Stian Birkeland" <>
Subject: New PRV-V6 engine from DMC Houston

Can someone tell me:
1) What is the 0-60mph time for the new engine from DMC Houston?
2) What is the top/max speed for the new engine from DMC Houston?

Just curious...

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland

VIN # 06759

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 5
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:07:38 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>
Subject: Re: Door struts and Gasoline

Replacing the struts can be easy in most cases. The hardest part is 
usually dealing with the little clip. BUT last year in Richmond I 
helped the group (including Rob Grady) to replace a strut on a 
member's car. It was the lower joint on the driver's side door. It 
just wouldn't let go! We tried everything breaking the strut off of 
the lower socket in the process. The socket refused to come off of the 
pin. We finally used a vise grip and a hammer and were careful not to 
hurt the stainless. On some cars that I have changed struts on I had 
to wack them off with a short piece of 2x4. You must be careful as 
even the simplist job can turn into a nightmare. This is not to scare 
anyone but to just make aware the dangers. REMEMBER YOU MUST SUPPORT 
THE DOOR WHEN REMOVING THE STRUT. Use a short piece of broomstick or 
2x4 and do not go from the floor to the door, go from the sill plate 
of the car to the door. It is less likely you will accidently kick the 
support out and if the car should move the support won't come out 
either. In installing the struts a SMALL amount of grease on the 
joints will help in removing them in the future and keep them from 
squeaking. On the subject of gasoline, never "top off" the car. If you 
do you will always notice a fuel smell till you use up some of the gas 
and with most automatic gas nozzles it is pretty near the top anyway. 
Take extra effort not to spill any as if it gets on the carpet the 
smell will linger even longer. I try not to let attendants fill my car 
as they are usually sloppy. It doesn't matter on most cars but on the 
Delorean IT MATTERS. Make sure the filler cap is on correctly.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> I think the only thing easier than replacing door struts is putting 
> gasoline.  If you're really awkward, maybe 10 minutes.  No mystique
> other than holding the door open while you do it.  I use a tip from
> Darryl (see his write-up in the tech section for removing door 
> one of those adjustable truck cargo bars from Harbor Freight.  Open 


Message: 6
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:34:41 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>
Subject: Re: Prototype body dies?

According to Stainless Steel Illusion the initial design prototypes 
were epo-wood (epoxy-wood?). The final approved prototype was then 
made from pine wood and the panels made from it. The book doesn't go 
into detail about the process which it says was done by a company 
called Milford Fabricating in Detroit. In most cases where a limited 
number of metal panels are to be made a "bucking horse" or wood model 
is made and then the panels are either beaten over the model or are 
bent and beaten over a mandrel and then checked and fitted against the 
model. This can only be done for a limited number of panels because it 
is very labor intensive and you quickly damage and destroy the wood 
forms. This is the way panels for the Delorean will be reproduced and 
repaired. Not only are "hard dies" very expensive when considering the 
 limited production run but the "press time" and the amount of 
stainless steel required would cost a fortune. You would need an 
enormous press to do this job as stainless steel is harder than the 
cold rolled steel (crs) usually used for making car panels. These are 
not common and are VERY expensive. Just the investment in stainless 
steel sheets is enough to kill this idea. A 16 gauge 4x8 sheet of 
stainless is about $100. Figure out how many sheets you would need for 
a limited production run. There are 8? panels on the car. How many 
could you fit out of a 4x8 sheet and how many are you going to make? 
Don't forget scrappage, waste, setup, and damage. Now figure storage, 
shipping, and cost of money. Not to many people are going to think 
this could be even close to a break-even scheme. The hard dies are not 
the problem.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757
Refer to Stainless Steel Illusion pages 32-37.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Can anyone say how the stainless panels on the prototype bodies were 
> Were they made using dies or by some other method?  I have never 
seen a


Message: 7
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:30:24 -0600
From: "David Swingle" <>
Subject: ADMIN: Monthly Reminder about the Rules of the List.


Updated December 9, 2001

Welcome fellow DeLorean enthusiast:  This is the DeLorean mailing list.
Please take a moment to review this message.  It includes some rules of
conduct, information about web sites for the list, as well as subscription
and unsubscription information.

1.0 CHARTER - This list exists for the enthusiasts of the DeLorean cars
produced during the 1981-83 model years. We all have a bit to learn from
each other, and welcome ALL DeLorean owners as members of the group.  This
list also exists for the benefit of those for whom ownership is a future
event and would like to get a handle on what it takes to live with, or be
married to, these wonderful cars. This list exists independently of the
current business known as the DeLorean Motor Company, or any other groups,
email lists, or web sites dealing with DeLorean automobiles other than

2.0 RESTRICTIONS - This is an unrestricted subscription list. Anyone may
join at any time without approval. All postings are subject to approval by
the active member of the moderating team. Please note that, in order to
reduce unsolicited spam, only authorized subscribers can post messages;
anonymous postings don't get past the list processor.  Topics should deal
with anything concerning owning, fixing, driving, restoring, detailing, or
anything else tangential with what it takes to live with these unique and
affordable automobiles. Also welcome are discussion of the DeLorean Motor
Company (the original manufacturer) and John Z. DeLorean himself.  Personal
impressions, links to sites, links to other information or personal
experiences are especially welcome. Personal, side observations of off-topic
areas should be minimized, but right now, are not absolutely forbidden.
Please be respectful of each other's mailboxes. Flames, intolerance, gross
characterizations, or any racial, ethnic, or orientation slurs are
forbidden.  The moderator will delete obscenities and any intolerant
comments.  The decision of the moderator as to what is obscene, intolerant,
or not in keeping with 'spirit' of the list is final.  This is, and has
been, and will continue to be, a "G" rated list.

3.0 ITEMS FOR SALE/SWAP - Items for sale, including cars, for PERSONAL
purposes are just fine; commercial ventures should use good judgment and
restraint (say, no more than once every couple weeks, ok?) and not tie up
the list with advertisements. It has been noted that many list members have
spare parts or knowledge that they are willing to swap or sell to other
members at reasonable cost to help each other out.  More detailed vendor
rules at We tend to frown on
postings seeking a "cheap" DeLorean, as the average list-member tends to
find this offensive. Be sure to include your email ID in the form of
"joe(AT)" because Yahoo Groups strips the email ID out of addresses
in the archives.

4.0 NETIQUETTE - Please note that you should use caution when quoting
personal email in your reply, unless you have the acquiescence of all
parties to the communications. Please respect the rights of your fellow
list-members and help maintain some modicum of privacy for private email as
well as list decorum. The list is setup to strip ALL attachments, to prevent
virus forwarding, dirty pictures, email pyramid schemes and the like from
cluttering up the list. File size is restricted so as to inhibit quoting
entire digests. If you have images or other data that you would like the
members to see, please post the info the site, and provide a
URL to the users versus attaching that file to a message.  When replying to
a message, let's get back into the (seemingly) long-lost netizen habit of
snipping unneeded or non-germane text from the body of the reply.
Especially, please be painfully aware of replying to the list if you are in
DIGEST mode, since a one or two-line retort in the middle of a digest, if
you are quoting the whole digest, is aggravating to your fellow users.  We
are a pretty tolerant bunch, but that tolerance has been built up by a long
tradition of respectful and open dialogue by the members of the group here.

5.0 OTHER SHARED FILES - As a member, there is a shared file area you can
upload images to on the yahoo server site; compressed JPEG is the best to
conserve disk space on the servers.  We do reserve the right to clean out
the file area from time to time to conserve disk space; we only have 20megs
available. We would caution against uploading any scans of copyrighted
material to either of these sites. This is not the place to debate whether
or not the information is for personal use, for now, let's accept the fact
that copyright owners have the right to tell us what to do with their
intellectual property.  The fact is, in this litigious society, we don't
have the resources to fight swarms of lawyers descending on us because a
site we administer has copyrighted material on it.  We need the bucks to
keep our cars running...:)

6.0 HOW DO I TURN THIS OFF - To unsubscribe from this list, go to the
Yahoo Groups web site, at, and select
User Center link from the menu bar on the left. Or, alternatively, you can
send a message to: and the system will
ask you to reply to a confirmation message.

7.0 HOW DO I CHANGE MY SUBSCRIPTION - I don't like getting 50 emails a day.
Can you help? Yes - Go into the members area off of the top page of the
Yahoo Groups website for the group, select your name, and change your
subscription type to something other than individual emails.

8.0 LIST OWNER AND CONTACT INFORMATION - Any suggestions for improvements
greatly appreciated, either on or off-list. Questions or comments to the
moderator should be sent to moderator(AT) All the moderators
will see your note. More detailed information on the list-owners is
available at

Technical information is used solely at your own risk. Your use of
YahooGroups is subject to


Message: 8
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:33:34 -0600
From: "David Swingle" <>
Subject: No-Miles DMC for Sale

They're still out there!! I just put an ad for a no-miles, one-owner car on
the for-sale page at . It's
in Arizona. A great opportunity for you collectors and concours fans. No
personal affiliation, I just like to mention these when they come along due
to the general interest.

Dave Swingle


Message: 9
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 06:58:09 -0000
From: "tmpintnl" <>
Subject: Re: Torsion Bars reversed?

Martin and List - We had a spirited discussion of this topic at the 
annual PNDC Christmas party tonight, and I must admit that I had a 
flaw in my logic that had to be personally beat into me by Gary 
Hull.  I failed to consider that the "stationary end" of the bar must 
remain at the aft end, regardless of which bar is used.  The forward 
end must always be the "moving end" because of it's attachment to the 
forward hinge.  This consideration makes it impossible to reverse the 
bars.  My sincere apologies to all for my mistake.  And 'thank you' 
to Gary for having the patience to gently lead me to the correct 
conclusion.  BTW - We are working to locate the car that has the dual 
gas struts installed.  I looked at the installation over a year ago, 
but I think that I can remember the details.  This configuration 
could allow the preload on the bars to be reduced, which would extend 
the life of the bars considerably.  The bars are designed to operate 
at 80% - 95% of ultimate strength according to the patent 
documentation ... keeping the working stresses to the lower end would 
be a great benefit in terms of fatigue life.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Sorry, Toby, you're wrong. As I said to James Grant when he posted 
the same suggestion -


Message: 10
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:13:55 EST
Subject: Re: Re: Torsion Bars ReVisited

Richard, If the bars are going to be remade, then someone has to pay for it. 
50, 100 bars who knows what they will say. But if they are $100.00 ea to be 
remade then the ends have to be machined, the cost sout be $150.00 ea x 50 = 
$7500.00. Who will pay for it. That's why I was trying to see who might want 
one or two. So far not enough.


Message: 11
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:34:40 -0000
From: "dherv10" <>
Subject: Parts Gone

Group, I was talking to a DML'er off the list about Torsion bars and  
Legend Turbo's and I was wondering how many parts are missing or can 
be got by picking up the phone and calling one of the vendors. I 
bought a ignition key switch the other day and it had to come off a 
wrecked car.
So, The question is. What do you as the group know are parts that 
can't be bought as new when you pick up the phone and call. Or is 
there to many.
Torsion bar, Drivers side
Ignition swith complete unit
so on.   
I will take the list and keep it up and repost.
John Hervey


Message: 12
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:35:22 -0000
From: "sebastain_valmont" <>
Subject: Re: DeLorean website now online !

Just wanted to let people know that I have redesigned the site, and 
added a few more features.  So please check it out !!

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., orentha_at_dml_h... wrote:
> I have created a new DeLorean website, and would like people to 
> it out: (<A href="">DeLorean.Info</A>)
> A quick rundown of what's on the site; a picture gallery, a links 
> page, a technical database devoted to repair procedures, and more...
> I would appreciate any feedback people have about the site.
> Thanks for looking.
> take care.
> Jim
> vin#15314


Message: 13
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 22:56:07 -0800
From: "Dan Trimble" <>
Subject: Buying a De Lorean

[MODERATOR'S NOTE: Local regional DeLorean clubs are usually a great source for information about experiences with local service centers. In your area, you might consider contacting Ken Montgomery of the Northern-California DeLorean Club. There are some links to clubs available on the DMCNews web site.]


I'm in the market for a new De Lorean, and am evaluating a couple in my
local area (SF Bay Area).  I love these cars and have wanted to get one for
years.  However, if I get one now it is likely to be in very regular use --
at least every 2 days or so.  To this end, I'm very concerned about a
getting a car which doesn't have a large base of available mechanics to work
on it :)

So, a question I'm hoping someone here can help me with...   where can I
take a De Lorean to be repaired mechanically?  Shipping it to the Houston
DMC factory every time repairs are needed is obviously not a suitable
option.  If anyone knows any specifically De Lorean-certified dealers or
mechanics in the greater San Francisco Bay Area (even Sacramento area if
needed), I'd very much appreciate some names.  Otherwise, what are other
owners doing for mechanical work?

Any help appreciated.  And thanks!


Dan Trimble, MAIP
International eBusiness Consultant -- Independent

Strategy | Marketing | Product Development

* what is the vision and product line?
* how do we build it effectively?
* how do we market it to customers, investors and partners?
* how do we go from here to there?

2995 Woodside Road, Suite 400-509
Woodside, CA  94062

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 14
Date: 10 Dec 2001 13:04:03 +0000
From: Nick Ryan <>
Subject: Accumalator

Hi All

I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction concerning a problem I am having. I had the fuel accumaltor replaced 2 weeks ago and the car seemed to run fine. I hadn't really driven it  untill friday night last and eveything seemed fine. Then after about 20 miles  the car on acceleration seemed to start bucking around, (like it was out of petrol), and it has continued to do so since. (it does it from start up now)

Now I also had a new alternator put in recently, and I still have a problem with that. I think it's a loose connection somewhere. The Volt meter jumps from 13 down to 8 and up again, when you hit the breaks or change gear (bit like a disco on the dash panel as the lights dim/brighten!!!). It's probably a short, I had a quick look but I'm not much of an electrical engineer. I am going to get the guys who put the new altenator in to fix that. Is there any connection between the altenator and the car acceleration problem?

Any Ideas?

Ta very much



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to