From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 840
Date: Monday, December 24, 2001 10:42 AM

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There are 6 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Weird brakes
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

2. Re: brake runout specs
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. Re: Weird brakes
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

4. new parking brake cross-reference
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

5. Cats was Heat Stove Function.
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. DeLorean Car Show
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 14:36:13 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Weird brakes

I'm no expert (yet) but my guess is that your master cylinder is going bad.
Mine had similar symptoms before it leaked all over the frame.  If I were
sitting at a traffic light with my foot on the brake pedal, then after a
minute or so the pedal would gradually drop to the floor.  After it bottomed
out, I could release the pedal and repeat the cycle.  At this point the
system wasn't loosing any fluid.

If your problem were in the vacuum assist, then your symptoms would be
opposite.  When it quits working then the brake would feel more firm and
then as it started working again the pedal would go lower with less effort.

If you are going to continue to drive it in this condition, be sure that
your low fluid warning light is working properly.  My original fluid sensor
had the internals corroded beyond repair.  I got a new one from PJ Grady
that wasn't an exact replacement.  The electrical plug was different, so I
trimmed it up and soldered wires to a new water proof plug.  It gives me a
lot more confidence knowing that I might get an idiot light warning rather
than suddenly find that my brakes aren't working.

At the very least, put a towel under the master cylinder to catch all the
fluid as it starts leaking out.  Or better yet, rebuild the system before
you have an accident.

Walt    Tampa, FL

From: "Cameron Putsch" <putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu>
> I had this happen a couple of times to me the other day. My brake pedal
would go low on random when coming up to a stop. It only happened a few
times and not in a row. It happened from around 55 mph when holding the
brakes to a stop. Even though the pedal went low I still had adaquate
stopping power. I checked around and I do not have a coolant leak nor do I
have a vacume leak. could this be from inconsistancies in the vacume assist
or what?





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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 19:57:42 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: brake runout specs

I got the specs I quoted out of a Chrysler manual. I also checked with 
a brake shop that I deal with. In general when they don't have 
something to reference these #'s are what they aim for. In general the 
lower the spec the smoother the brakes. Some systems are more tolerant 
of runout so the pulsation isn't transmitted as directly in which case 
you don't have to be as fussy. It is also a function of how good the 
brake lath is at holding tolerances and how well the rotors stay in 
shape. Non ventilated rotors as we have in the Delorean hold shape 
well until they get severly overheated. If that happens then they 
usually do not return to their normal shape and instead become 
distorted. I used english measurements as in America most brake lathes 
are calibrated in this system. Use a dial indicater to measure 
run-out. Use a micrometer to measure thickness variation. In many 
cases you can get by after measuring everything by just doing the one 
rotor that is the worst. It is usually the worst by far as the other 
three are close to each other. Remember ANY ONE rotor can cause pedal 
pulsation but if the steering is affected it is most likely a front 
rotor.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> David Teitelbaum wrote:
> 
> > There are no published specs for the runout of the rotors. There 
is
> > also no published spec on parellelism. In general the runout 
should be
> > kept below .0025" and parelleism .0005". (Parden my speeling).
> 
> I wrote:
> 
> > But I happen to have the WorkShop Manual for my Escort too!
> > For my Escort the maximum allowable runout/wobble is 0,15mm.
> 
> Then Walter Coe wrote:
> 
> >> I'm going to have to convert
> >> David T's specs to metric before I can understand them (yep, I 
hate
> >> the old system!  I can't even put those numbers into perspective
> >> without converting.) The specs that Jan gave don't make much 
sense
> >> either.  You are only supposed to use commas every three digits,
> >> so 0,15mm makes no sense.  Do you mean 0.15mm?  I think I have a
> >> lot more run-out than that.  I'll get back later with some real
> >> numbers once I get the car up on jacks again.
> 
> .0025" = 0.0635mm
> .0005" = 0.0127mm
> 
> Yes I DID mean 0.15, but on our side of the big pond the use for
> commas and points is just the reverse of the USA, so one thousand
> in the USA is 1,000.00 and in Europe we write it down as 1.000,00
> Sorry for the confusion...
> 
> What does strike me as surprising is that Davids' specs are less
> than half of the ones I found. I guess the difference in performance
> would be a good explanation?
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> JAN van de Wouw
> Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
> Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...
> 
> #05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000
> 
> ------------------------------




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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 20:02:46 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Weird brakes

Check the brake fluid level. Remove and inspect the inside of the 
vacuum hose going to the booster for the presence of brake fluid. If 
it keeps happening and the vac hose is dry the master cylinder is 
failing. If the vac hose is wet the booster will have to rebuilt too.
Do not let this go on long as it can get scary if you have to stop in 
a hurry and the pedal falls away from you!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Cameron Putsch" <putsch.1_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> I had this happen a couple of times to me the other day. My brake 
pedal would go low on random when coming up to a stop. It only 
happened a few times and not in a row. It happened from around 55 mph 
when holding the brakes to a stop. Even though the pedal went low I 
still had adaquate stopping power. I checked around and I do not have 
a coolant leak nor do I have a vacume leak. could this be from 
inconsistancies in the vacume assist or what?
> 
> Sincerely, Casey at putsch.1_at_dml_o...
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 15:45:09 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: new parking brake cross-reference

MINTEX
JLM 001514  "hand brake pads"
Also fits:
Aston Martin 76-
Daimler Series II/III 73-
Daimler XJR-S Range 88-
Jaguar E Type Range 71-75
Jaguar Sovereign Range 83-
Jaguar XJ/XJS/XJ6 75-83

1 unit costs $38 which includes complete set of 4 pads.  Found at a local
independent foreign specialty auto parts store.  It also has new mounting
hardware which has smaller nuts.  This is a big plus because there isn't
much clearance in the caliper to fit a wrench or socket.  These pads are
asbestos free and have a high metallic content.  Even though these aren't
necessarily a wear item except when used as an emergency brake, as such they
would be more effective because the metallic content will sink the heat
better.

Made by:
TMD Friction
P.O. Box 18, Hunsworth Lane, Cleckheaton,
West Yorkshire BD19 3UJ, England.
Tel: 01274 854000 Fax: 01274 854001




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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 13:32:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Cats was Heat Stove Function.

I don't have specs, but I assume that Eleanor (Turbo
Manifold Co.) would share that info.  Also, the new
DMC engine has twin cats.  Whether they are the same
as on the turbo kit or not, I don't know?  James?

Dick Ryan
- - - - - - - - - - - -
--- therealdmcvegas <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com> wrote:
> On a seperate note, does anyone have any
> specs/sources for these cats?


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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 12:39:04 EST
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: DeLorean Car Show

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 
See you all in Memphis

The Koncelik Family

www.deloreancarshow.com



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