From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 848
Date: Monday, December 31, 2001 10:09 AM

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There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Cooling system flush
From: "carnut4849" <gmfm1_at_dml_att.net>

2. Re: Eratic engine idle when warm
From: "dmcman82" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

3. Re: Eratic engine idle when warm
From: "dmcman82" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

4. Re: Eratic engine idle when warm
From: "dmcman82" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

5. Bleeding clutch fluid
From: "Joe Thome" <joethome_at_dml_jps.net>

6. RE: Engine will not turn over (an update)
From: mrvideosawyer_at_dml_netscape.net

7. Re: Eratic engine idle when warm
From: "dmcman82" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>

8. Hank and Mimi Breer
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

9. Re: Starting Problem
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>

10. Re: Cooling system flush
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

11. Re: Torsion Bar Problem
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

12. Re: dimensions
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

13. Re: Lambda questions?? and other stuff...
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

14. Re: Starting Problem
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

15. Re: Bleeding clutch fluid
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

16. Re: Lambda questions?? and other stuff...
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

17. Re: Engine will not turn over (an update)
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

18. Re: Cooling system flush
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

19. internet owners list?
From: "Cameron Putsch" <putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu>

20. Sunstar write-up
From: "fivetwofive" <CBL302_at_dml_msn.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 01:41:21 -0000
From: "carnut4849" <gmfm1_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Cooling system flush

Dear Ed,
     I have used the Prestone Flushing Tee on all of my cars since it 
came out back in the 70's-80's. It works really well. I have not used 
it on my D. I am interested in how others flush the system as well. 
     Remember that in many places it is illegal to flush the system 
out and let the coolant run into the sewers and into the ground, so 
be careful.
Happy Motoring,
Gary Masie


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "edherrmann" <edherrmann_at_dml_y...> wrote:

> What is the best way to flush out the cooling system. 

 Thanks.  Ed  10078, 16228




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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 03:27:08 -0000
From: "dmcman82" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: Eratic engine idle when warm

DOH! I meant 700-1000, sorry. And to answer your question about 
driving it yet...no I haven't since it's on stands with no wheels 
and no front suspension...I'm still restoring my D, taking my time 
but it'll get done soon...I hope.

Steve



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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 03:30:32 -0000
From: "dmcman82" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: Eratic engine idle when warm

I didn't think of the possibility of the electrical system causing 
the erratic idle since it turns over fine and I have 13 volts from 
the Batt/alternator. I'll re-check all my connections, grounds and 
voltage supply lines to make sure that there isn't any corrosion or 
loose connections...thanks.

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> The first thing that comes to mind would be to monitor the battery 
> voltage as the engine is going through these cycles.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757



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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 03:33:08 -0000
From: "dmcman82" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: Eratic engine idle when warm

That's one task I have been trying to avoid/do. I guess when I get 
the car road worthy and insured I'll bring it to PJ Grady to have 
them adjust the CO mixture exact with the equipment they have. In 
the mean time I'm going to keep proding around and double checking 
all my connections and voltages like Dave suggested.

Thanks,

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., dherv10_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Steve, When the car is seeking after warm up, it's usually the air 
flow meter 
> needs to be adjusted.
> John hervey
>    http://www.specialtauto.com/



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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 19:29:09 -0800
From: "Joe Thome" <joethome_at_dml_jps.net>
Subject: Bleeding clutch fluid

Dear list members,

I'm getting ready to refill and bleed my hydraulic clutch fluid. I'm doing this because my clutch was not relasing and I found my fluid reservoir empty but no signs on the garage floor of leakage. As I understand the procedure, I am to attach a hose to the fitting on the slave cylinder on top of the transmission bell housing. If this is correct, does anyone know the inside diameter of the hose to use for this bleeding operation? If this is not the correct procedure, would someone please tell me what the correct procedure is? If this is the correct procedure, can I do this procedure by myself by simply putting the end of the bleeder hose in a container with DOT #4 fluid and pumping the clutch pedal myself after filling the reservoir inside the front storage compartment near the gas filler pipe?


I thank whoever responds for your help.

Joe Thome

VIN 6467 as of 2/12/01 











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 21:17:50 -0500
From: mrvideosawyer_at_dml_netscape.net
Subject: RE: Engine will not turn over (an update)

I went out to the shop today with a renewed vigor.  I first charged battery to see what would happen, same response, nothing.  I then did a hydrometer reading of each cell in battery.  Ah ha, one cell dead.  Thinking back I just replaced alternator because the DUC was putting out to much voltage and was boiling out all the water.  Hummmmmmm cause and effect.  Battery plates were toasted by too much voltage which caused premature battery to fail. A new battery later the car is back on the road.

Jim Sawyer
vin 4149

>Dear Group,
>I went out to start car today and nothing happened. 
>Thanks Jim
>Vin 4149



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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 03:35:29 -0000
From: "dmcman82" <srubano_at_dml_optonline.com>
Subject: Re: Eratic engine idle when warm

LOL, My frame is back on the car. Only thing I need to do to it to 
get it on the road is install the brake system, install the front 
suspension, mount my tires and put them on the car and install the 
tranny mounts. I know, I know....what's keeping me then?! Time for 
one thing and money. :)

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., njp548_at_dml_a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/30/01 7:12:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> tomciodmc_at_dml_p... writes:
> 
> << Did you drive it yet? Or was it just
>  idling? If you didn't drive it then go outside, get into your D 
and drive
>  it! It's FUN ;). >>
> Uhh...Tom...Steve can't quite drive the car yet since hes in the 
middle of a 
> frame off restoration on it.  
> 
> Later,
> Nick
> 1852
> 15914
> <A 
HREF="http://members.aol.com/njp548">http://members.aol.com/njp548</A
>
> Happy New Years!




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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 17:08:35 +0000
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: Hank and Mimi Breer

I have to agree, very nice people and a wonderful exercise in discipline
also.  If you can get away from Hank without purchasing at least a fanny
pack, you're ready for the big time.




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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 20:04:38 +0000
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_cybersurfers.net>
Subject: Re: Starting Problem

Probably on all cars, all years, all makes (with negative ground), the commonest answer
is a bad ground connection, the one from the negative cable on the battery to chassis
ground.  When your car acts up, take a battery jumper cable, connect it from your
negative battery terminal to the nearest part of the chassis you can reach (I use the
alternator frame) see if that's your problem.  If so, that ground connection should be at
the right rear of your D.  Or do it another way, with 13 plus volts across your battery
terminals take a VOM and measure from the positive terminal to chassis ground and see if
that reads 13 plus volts.  There are some far out answers like the cables themselves,
once in a great while a bad connection from the cable to the lead connector that actually
connects to the battery but those are rare and can be immediately checked with a VOM
also.  You can also measure the resistance from the negative terminal to the chassis
(again, I use the alternator frame) should read about an ohm and a half, if it's more
than that be suspicious.  Your battery has the proper voltage and you have a good
starter, the voltage isn't getting to it.

paulus260572 wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> The problem I'm having on starting is this sometimes when I crank the
> car over its like the battery is flat and there's hardly any reading
> on the volt gauge then all of a sudden the car will start and be fine.
>




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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 04:10:20 -0000
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Cooling system flush


http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/cooling.htm

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "edherrmann" <edherrmann_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> What is the best way to flush out the cooling system. . . . .

 Is their another way by using the yard hose and running 
> the engine. Thanks.  Ed  10078, 16228




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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 04:16:54 -0000
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Torsion Bar Problem

This is NOT a good thing. I've seen this one time (Christian W, if 
you're out there, I'm talking about your car!)

The bar is actually probably not bent permananently, but what has 
happened is that the doofus that took it out used the wrong (too 
small) allen wrench on the bar (or did not insert it all the way) and 
caused the head of the torsion bar to expand very slightly. This is 
NOT visible to the naked eye. This has caused the splines on the 
torsion bar to seize into the retaining clamp. When tightened, rather 
than sliding down the bar, the clamp actually compressed the bar 
causing it to bend (picture trying to press on both ends of a soda 
straw with your hands- what happens to the straw?). On the one I've 
seen like this we put a couple of washers under the torsion bar 
retaining clamp to space it back from the body slightly. There is NO 
WAY To adjust the torsion bar with this problem in place, and you may 
even have a hard time removing it from the car without removing the 
roof panel and/or the back window since you cannot get the clamp off 
the bar.

You may want to engage in further discussions with the bodyshop at 
least as far as paying to fix it. 
 
Only solution is probably a new torsion bar and clamp. 
 
Dave



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Aaron PETERSON" <mrroboto1_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am experiencing problems with the driver side door torsion bar. 
It seems that a local body shop bent the bar, while replacing a door 
hinge, that the door will only stay half way up, even with a new 
strut on it. Is it possible for the bar to be bent back (the middle 
is bowed outward) without causing damage to the bar?
> 
> Aaron P.





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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 04:18:33 -0000
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: dimensions


http://www.dmcnews.com/faq/t_dims.htm

Dave

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Grigor Maksudyan <delorean66_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I just wanted to know the official measurements of the DeLorean. 
(Length, width, height)
> 
> Please email me, thanks.]




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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 04:19:37 -0000
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Lambda questions?? and other stuff...


http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/lambda_elim.htm

Dave

-- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Les Huckins <jhuckins_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Check out the writeup by Knut, tech section of the DMC News page, 
it addresses this
> exactly.
> 
> Adam Price wrote:
> 
> > I am wondering what the effects of no lambda sensor are? If the 
sensor broke
> > or if it was removed, would the engine idle more normally? 
Personally I dont
> > like the whole lambda circuit, it makes the car idle crazy.




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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:58:12 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Starting Problem

Paul, Make sure you don't have a dead cell in the battery. It will do crazy 
things in voltage readings, charging  and starting. The alternators I build 
with new Delco parts put out around 13.8 volts with a 100 amp load, and 
normally 14.5 with out a load, also you could look for a bad or shorted diode 
in the alternator.  
John hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/



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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 05:01:39 -0000
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Bleeding clutch fluid

That's the process. Hint - if you have not done this it's easier to 
see what you are doing if you take the engine cover off the car. The 
hose is about 3/16 ID. BUT. . .

The fluid is going somewhere, it most certainly does not evaporate. 
Most likely is that the master cylinder is leaking. When it does this 
the fluid runs out from the pushrod (that goes to the pedal) and it 
runs under the carpet. Yuck. Take a look. 

When the slave leaks it runs down the bellhousing and conveniently 
takes the epoxy off the frame just below the bellhousing. You will 
get drips on the floor. 

Dave

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Joe Thome" <joethome_at_dml_j...> wrote:
> Dear list members,
> 
> I'm getting ready to refill and bleed my hydraulic clutch fluid. 
I'm doing this because my clutch was not relasing and I found my 
fluid reservoir empty but no signs on the garage floor of leakage. As 
I understand the procedure, I am to attach a hose to the fitting on 
the slave cylinder on top of the transmission bell housing. If this 
is correct, does anyone know the inside diameter of the hose to use 
for this bleeding operation? If this is not the correct procedure, 
would someone please tell me what the correct procedure is? If this 
is the correct procedure, can I do this procedure by myself by simply 
putting the end of the bleeder hose in a container with DOT #4 fluid 
and pumping the clutch pedal myself after filling the reservoir 
inside the front storage compartment near the gas filler pipe?




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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 00:16:33 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Lambda questions?? and other stuff...

Adam, The European cars with no emissions control naturally get more HP but 
don't burn as clean for as long I feel. Since the 70's emissions control and 
polluting has been a major concern in the U.S. If you removed all the Lambda 
system, Frequency Valve, Cat's, 02, ECU, You could adjust the engine to run 
smooth and run efficient until the weather changed, or altitude or a 100 
other things which would cause you to re adjust the mixture. If you just 
unplug the 02 sensor, you will see what will happen to the mixture, you will 
normally run rich. Cat's may begin to glow. I know the more sensors and 
electronics are add to the car it's just more things to go out. But for a 
street car, the emissions control system when working properly will maintain 
the right balance of fuel and air. When I bought my 1st Delorean about 5 
years ago, I changed the 02 and readjusted the air flow to match the new 02 
and it's all aged at the same time. Engine runs smooth at idle, cranks fine 
and has plenty of pep., After a few mod's. If your car isn't idling smooth, 
something else could be wrong, plugs, wire, injectors, so on. Personally, I 
like the Lambda system to automatically adjust the mixture. I don't have to 
check it the way we used to. I have all kinds of books and charts on Lambda 
or computer control emissions.
John hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/
      

<< I am wondering what the effects of no lambda sensor are? If the sensor 
broke 
 or if it was removed, would the engine idle more normally? Personally I 
don't 
 like the whole lambda circuit, it makes the car idle crazy.
 
 If I just remove the sensor will it negate oxygen regulation/up and down 
 idle? How seriously will emissions be affected, I would leave the catalytic 
 in place. >>



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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 00:21:51 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Engine will not turn over (an update)

Jim, Another way you can also tell if a cell in the battery is bad. When 
using a charger on a battery that is known to be low and should take a while 
to charge. Like over night,  The needle will normally drop pretty fast to 
float or full charge. I have an old 8 amp small charger to give a battery a 
long slow charge as they like it. Then I use the 200+ to hot shot.
John Hervey
 



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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 06:01:22 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Cooling system flush

To flush the cooling system first loosen several hoses under the car 
and drain as much of the old coolant out as possible fron the engine, 
radiater, and heater core. Tighten the connections back up and fill 
with clean water. You can do this several times and dispose of the old 
coolant properly. When the water drains out clear now you can flush. 
Loosen one of the hoses under the car and as the water is draining out 
use a garden hose to keep the system full as you run the motor. After 
a while stop the motor, shut the water off and drain as much water out 
as you can. Now refill with a 50/50 mix of water and Premium permanant 
anti-freeze. Top off and bleed. Pressure test when done. The system 
MUST hold 15 psi for 15 minuetes. Before you flush you should have 
replaced all of the 20 year old hoses and seals so you don't waste all 
of that new anti-freeze. I guess you should pressure test BEFORE you 
flush!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "carnut4849" <gmfm1_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Dear Ed,
>      I have used the Prestone Flushing Tee on all of my cars since 
it 
> came out back in the 70's-80's. It works really well. I have not 
used 
> it on my D. I am interested in how others flush the system as well. 
>      Remember that in many places it is illegal to flush the system 
> out and let the coolant run into the sewers and into the ground, so 
> be careful.
> Happy Motoring,
> Gary Masie
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "edherrmann" <edherrmann_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> > What is the best way to flush out the cooling system. 
> 
>  Thanks.  Ed  10078, 16228




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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 02:06:52 +0100
From: "Cameron Putsch" <putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu>
Subject: internet owners list?

I heard you can sign up on a website somewhere if you own a Delorean. In it, it tells your address and if you have tools for break downs etc. I'd might like to sign up, but don't know where exactly to go. Which site and where on that site?

Casey at putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:46:17 -0000
From: "fivetwofive" <CBL302_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Sunstar write-up

Sunstar write-up



Came across this while serfing the internet:

Here is a write-up by SunStar Toys (the company that makes the 
diecast 1/18 Delorean models) I really think that they wrote up a 
really nice write-up on our beloved Deloreans,judge for yourselves.
P.S.They even added a few extra Horsepower.

Claude
000570

History 
The DeLorean DMC-12 was made famous mostly by the "Back to the 
Future" movies where it starred as the "time machine". Exactly 8583 
DeLoreans were built in the factory in Belfast, Northern Ireland 
between the model years of 1981 and 1983. DeLoreans can only be 
described as unique or stunning. The car used methods and materials 
never thought of before and was told to be an "ethical sports car".

As mentioned earlier, Giorgette Giugiaro and Lotus did most of the 
design work, using the Lotus Elan chassis as the base for the car. 
But the Lotus chassis is about the extent of "normal" features on the 
DeLorean.

The body is made up of two parts, a fiberglass underbody insulated 
with a special type of foam for safety, and a #304 stainless steel 
skin covering the fiberglass. The stainless steel will never rust and 
is very similar to common kitchen cookware. The chassis was coated 
with a special enamel to prevent rusting also, but the coating was 
put on too thick at the factory resulting in cracking, allowing water 
to seep through. The most eye-catching part of the DeLorean, however, 
are the exotic gullwing doors. These doors used technology so 
sophisticated that it was also used on space shuttles and jet 
fighters. The 90 pound doors are self-opening care of pistons mounted 
underneath.

Originally, John DeLorean had planned to sell his new sports car for 
a sticker price of around $12,000 (hence the 12 in DMC-12), but 
production costs and various other details put the price at $25,000. 
However, he decided to stick with the original model name of DMC-12.

The DeLorean car didn't have the chance to be all John DeLorean 
wanted. Many things were cut from the original prototype to meet the 
deadline and production costs. Among the things left out were dual 
airbags, which is a shame because the DeLorean would have been the 
first production car to incorporate them. However, the DeLorean still 
faired very well in crash tests and was one of the safest vehicles of 
it's time, mostly do to the protective foam padding behind the 
fiberglass underbody.

The DeLorean DMC-12 was a very innovative and sophisticated car, 
including standard features that were uncommon in it's time such as 
power windows, mirrors, and door locks, rear engine design, and fuel 
injection. Despite it's limited production numbers, controversial 
creator, and cut corners, the DeLorean is undoubtebly a great sports 
car. There will never be another car quite like the DMC-12, even if 
plans are carried out for the release of the next generation 
DeLorean. It is a truly unique and interesting car that gathers more 
attention than any Ferrari, Lamborgini, Porsche or other exotic can 
ever dream of. 



Specifications 

Model DeLorean DMC12 (1979~82) 
Production 6,500 
Body Style Two-seater rear-engined sports coupe 
Construction Y-shaped chassis with stainless-steel body 
Engine 2850cc ohc V-6 
Power Output 145 bhp at 5,500 rpm 
Transmission Five-speed manual (optional three-speed auto) 
Suspension Independent with unequal length parallel arms and rear 
trailing arms 
Brakes Fours-wheel discs 
Maximum Speed 125 mph (201km/h) 
0 - 60 MPH (0 - 96 km/h) 9.6 sec 
0 - 100 MPH (0 - 161 km/h) 23.2 sec 





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