From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1004
Date: Sunday, April 28, 2002 10:33 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Sylvania Xenarc HID headlamp installation walkthrough
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

2. RE: A/C conversion
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>

3. Trailing Arm Bolts - Update
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>

4. it's the Bricklorean, again
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>

5. DeLorean Car Show Registration
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

6. Re: it's the Bricklorean, again
From: "Chris" <chris_at_dml_internets.freeserve.co.uk>

7. One more
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

8. DeLorean Mid Atlantic Spring Social
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

9. RE: Trailing Arm Bolts - Update
From: mrvideosawyer_at_dml_netscape.net

10. transmission question
From: "john572905" <jrc2905_at_dml_aol.com>

11. CO screw plug
From: Delorean17_at_dml_aol.com

12. Re: Sylvania Xenarc HID headlamp installation walkthrough
From: Andrew <aos+yahoo_at_dml_boom.net>

13. Re: CO screw plug
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

14. Re: transmission question
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

15. DeLorean Financiers?
From: "techceo" <dan_at_dml_dantrimble.com>

16. unsticking a stuck door (long)
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

17. Mid_Atlantic Spring Social / Water Pipe Blowing
From: "shainbrannan" <shain_at_dml_elecmods.com>

18. Re: DeLorean Financiers?
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

19. Re: DeLorean Financiers?
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

20. JOHN Z DELOREAN
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

21. RE: DeLorean Financiers?
From: "Jack Stiefel" <jackstiefel_at_dml_sacketmansion.com>

22. RE: DeLorean Financiers?
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

23. "Engine Number" location
From: "Jerry Condray" <genghis_at_dml_sctelcom.net>

24. RE: DeLorean Financiers?
From: hugo mederos <miami5606_at_dml_yahoo.com>

25. Re: Mid_Atlantic Spring Social
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 22:56:48 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Sylvania Xenarc HID headlamp installation walkthrough

Andrew,

You bought the same kit that I did for my DeLorean.  I haven't installed
mine yet because what is in my car right now works fine and I have too many
other BROKEN things that I need to fix first.

I'm going to take a very different approach to installing my HIDs.  I'm
putting both of the relays in the relay compartment behind the passenger
seat.  Then I'm going to run twin power wires along the main wiring loom in
the center console and through the front wall on the drivers side.  Instead
of drawing the power directly from the battery like you did, I'm going to
take it either off of the jumper post in the engine compartment or at the
bundle on the alternator or starter.  I have had very poor luck in the past
by connecting cables to batteries that were not designed to be connected to
batteries.  Heck, I've had a hard time even with connectors that were meant
for batteries!  A little bit of seeping acid will wreak havoc on them.

On your installation procedure, you mention that the "bridge" to keep the
low beams on with the high beams is redundant because the DeLorean keeps the
low beams on with the high beams anyway.  This is not how the cars were
wired from the factory.  I'm suspicious that a previous owner may have
modified your wiring to keep them on.

I couldn't resist powering up my HIDs just to see how they work.  The beam
pattern is very different from what I am used to seeing on American cars.
It makes a lot more sense and is easier on everyone's eyes.  I can see now
why the European folks talk about having to cover part of American
headlights with tape to reduce the glare for oncoming traffic.  With the
HIDs, there is a lot of chromatic aberration at the perimeter of the beam
pattern.  This makes the lights appear to change color at a certain point as
you pass the car.  I've noticed this a lot on cars equipped with HIDs.

Did you notice the perfume that Sylvania added to the packaging material?
For the price, they better smell good!  :-)  And since Sylvania & DeLorean
did joint magazine advertisements, it is in good spirit to continue to stick
with Sylvania brand products for the D.

When I install my HIDs, I'm going to install an electrochromatic rear view
mirror at the same time.  This is the same model that came stock on my '99
GMC truck.  To operate the built in thermometer, there is a thermistor that
mounts in front of and below the radiator, so since I will be running wires
in the area anyway for the HIDs, it makes since to install the mirror at the
same time.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:56:59 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>
Subject: RE: A/C conversion

Andy,

The issue is NOT grade or quality of oil as you describe..  The R12 and R134a oils are NOT COMPATIBLE.  Mixing them will clog the system and cause compressor failure.

Marc


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com [mailto:Soma576_at_dml_aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 5:05 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [DML] A/C conversion
> 
> 
> Marc,
> 
> for refrigerent oil we opted to use Ester 100 which covers a broader 
> viscosity range than standard "R-12 oil".  It isn't as 
> perfect a match as 
> purely 134a oil, but it will be adequate for the temperature 
> and climate that 
> my DeLorean is in.  



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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 05:52:38 -0000
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: Trailing Arm Bolts - Update

Hello List - PNDC just had a fantastic Spring Tech Session, and we 
gained some more experience with our nemesis, the TAB.  16 members 
were in attendance, and about half a dozen wanted to get some TOBY-
TAB's installed.  (Most of the rest already had them in.).  Every 
single car that we performed the installation on had bent bolts to 
one degree or another.  Two were bent substantially, and the bushing 
sleeves were seized onto the bolts.  The rubber bushings were 
seriously damaged, and required replacement.  Most of the people had 
decided to change out the bolts for the extra added "peace of mind", 
and had no idea of the condition of their bolts.  Two cars had lost 
all of the alignment shims on one side, and the joint was "sloppy 
loose".  Are you 30%'s out there paying attention to this? (I am 
referring to the poll that concluded that 30% of DeLorean owners 
responding didn't have a clue about their TAB's).  Okay, I'm through 
ranting.

We took some photo's of the front suspension links installed on 
Winged1, as well as my rear sway bar installation.  I will upload 
some of them very soon.  The links are working out very well so far.

PS - Thanks to Bruce Benson and Jim Reeve for the good times while I 
was in Minneapolis.  You guys are the best.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
Winged1   




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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 02:03:21 -0400
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: it's the Bricklorean, again

I hate it when people know more about my car than I do.

Today I learned that my engine was renault, transmission was american and
that the body was made in Canada by Bricklin.

Can not the list help me keep these things straight?

Jim 
1537

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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:26:13 EDT
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: DeLorean Car Show Registration

Well we are well on our way to the 400 mark already and who knows from that 
point.
An interesting point is that this group is now closer to 65% first time 
attendees.  

Welcome to you all.

Of the 201 rooms there are 184 names on the registrations and I have  
recieved 142 reigstrations meaning that at least 42 of you that have hotel 
registrations have not event registered yet. this would easily put us over 
the 400 mark when the registrations come in. 

The deadline to get the T-shirts and pins is Postmarked May 1.
and that is this week.

Refund policy it that refunds will be issued up to the day before the 
scheduled event.

My block of hotel rooms at both hotels are gone but if there is a room 
available they will still honor the rates.

On one other note Curtis called and he said he has modified his car even 
further and he wants to  prepare you all.  He says it shocked even him LOL

I just confirmed with Stephen Clark (BTTF Website), Randal Brown (3M 
corporation doing 3M and the DeLorean, and Bob Zilla on the Zilla products 
seminars for Thursday and all are still planning to be there so Thursday 
night looks full.

Yes D Rex will be there.

The Thursday door adjustment with Rob Grady may change locations and we will 
be limiting the session to about an hour to an hour and a half (door 
adjustments only please)  If there are no doors to be adjusted we will just 
be gathering in the area anyway.

I invited Elvis but he still has not given me a RSVP

I will be sending out an e-mail to all the people registered so far by Next 
Sunday so if I received your registration by Friday of this past week you 
will be on that list. If not I will be resending about every other week until 
the show to make sure its covered.

Thanks for responding to the Raddison request.  A little more than half of 
you did and we found 3 people registered at the wrong hotel.  

Thankyouverymuch 
and see you in Memphis

Ken
deloreancarshow.com




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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:40:49 +0100
From: "Chris" <chris_at_dml_internets.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: it's the Bricklorean, again

[MODERATOR NOTE: This is a good example of whay sarcasm doesn't always work on mailing ists. A better title for the initial post would have been "funny things I hear at car shows".]

Jim

> I hate it when people know more about my car than I do.
>
> Today I learned that my engine was renault, transmission was american and
> that the body was made in Canada by Bricklin.
>
> Can not the list help me keep these things straight?

The Delorean engine and transmission are both Renault and from France. The
underbody was the only item produced at the factory in Belfast. The
stainless panels are British steel and were pressed in Ireland. The
underbody was designed by Lotus in Norfolk. The chassis was again Lotus
design and built in the Midlands, UK.

As far as I  know nothing came from Canada and certainly had nothing to do
with Bricklin though I do believe there were 1 or 2 guys who worked on the
Bricklin also worked on the DMC. Allot of the heating and A/C was sourced in
the USA but not much else

Regards

Chris S
Vin 16327







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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:58:31 EDT
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: One more

I got this email in response to my e-mail to the group


Ken

You forgot to mention that I'm going to be there!!  That would have easily 
sparked a registration frenzy to put you well over the 400 mark!! LOL...I 
found another DMC in town, and I'm working on getting him to come...I'll let 
you know what I find out!


Scott

P.S.-is the door adjustment seminar by reservation, or can anyone come?

The last comment I guess I wasn't clear on 
Yes its open to anyone as for the door aligments it will be first come first 
server or and hour to an hour and a half whichever comes first,






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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:04:03 EDT
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: DeLorean Mid Atlantic Spring Social


    I would like to thank everyone for a spectacular weekend. The attendance 
was great and everyone went home happy. The pictures look great. Can't wait 
for next year!

Best Wishes,
Michael Pack

<Hi Everyone!

Today was the Delorean MidAtlantic Club's spring social and door adjustment,
and it was GREAT!

As promised, here are pictures of the event!
(Thanks to Dan and Matt O. for volunteering ME to climb up in the tree!)

http://67.82.226.8:81/dmc/scrapbook/scrapbook.htm





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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:03:13 -0400
From: mrvideosawyer_at_dml_netscape.net
Subject: RE: Trailing Arm Bolts - Update

Toby and list,
As a member of the PNDC I would also like to thank FAME Automotive for letting us use their facilities.  We (PNDC) had two hoists and two other work bays for us to use, as well as a REAL mechanic on hand for tecinical questions.  The club also put on door struts, adjusted doors and found bad idal bearings (mine).  Oh, I almost forgot, I saw a fan set up that looked almost factory and it was an after market buy.  The set up did not take up as much room nor did it take as much power to run.  I think Darrel Tinnerstet got the low down and part numbers.

Jim Sawyer
vin 4149    
"tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com> wrote:

>Hello List - PNDC just had a fantastic Spring Tech Session, and we 
>gained some more experience with our nemesis, the TAB.  16 members 
>were in attendance, and about half a dozen wanted to get some TOBY-
>TAB's installed.  (Most of the rest already had them in.).  



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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:42:32 -0000
From: "john572905" <jrc2905_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: transmission question

I ordered the drive shaft seals and o rings for my 5 speed trans.
The transmission that I have does not appear to have o-rings and is a 
differant design than what is in my parts book. Did some cars have 
different transmissions than what is in the parts book. I did not 
find any info in the archives.
John




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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:05:44 EDT
From: Delorean17_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: CO screw plug

Hi List,
    Before the big Memphis trip I want to have my CO mixture tuned by a local 
shop.  I see that my CO screw hole is plugged with something.  Does this pop 
out or does it have to be drilled out?  I have my intake off right now so 
this would be the perfect time to do it.

any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
David



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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:05:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew <aos+yahoo_at_dml_boom.net>
Subject: Re: Sylvania Xenarc HID headlamp installation walkthrough

On Sat, 27 Apr 2002, Walter Coe wrote:

> I have had very poor luck in the past by connecting cables to batteries
> that were not designed to be connected to batteries.  Heck, I've had a
> hard time even with connectors that were meant for batteries!  A little
> bit of seeping acid will wreak havoc on them.

We'll see how it works.  I generally keep those connections coated in a
little petroleum jelly to help reduce that problem.  How this will work
long term remains to be seen of course.

> On your installation procedure, you mention that the "bridge" to keep
> the low beams on with the high beams is redundant because the DeLorean
> keeps the low beams on with the high beams anyway.  This is not how the
> cars were wired from the factory.  I'm suspicious that a previous owner
> may have modified your wiring to keep them on.

Aaaah.  I should know by now never to make assumptions about everyone
else's cars based on mine.  Previous owners have indeed made a number of
modifications to this car (most of them good, saving me money in the long
run) and this must be one of them.  I will modify the instructions not to
make this incorrect assumption anymore.  (Dave, you may wish to grab *yet
another* copy for the tech section.  Sorry, this was unpredictable.)

> Did you notice the perfume that Sylvania added to the packaging material?
> For the price, they better smell good!  :-)

No, actually I didn't.  Next time I'm outside, I'll be sure to go sniff
the box.

> When I install my HIDs, I'm going to install an electrochromatic rear
> view mirror at the same time.  This is the same model that came stock on
> my '99 GMC truck.  To operate the built in thermometer, there is a
> thermistor that mounts in front of and below the radiator, so since I
> will be running wires in the area anyway for the HIDs, it makes since to
> install the mirror at the same time.

I was actually planning to combine the same two installs myself, but my
HIDs arrived really quickly and I got too excited to wait.  The
electrochomatic/thermometer/compass mirror will hopefully arrive soon, and
I intend to write up a similar walkthrough for it.

-andrew




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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:40:00 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: CO screw plug

In a message dated 4/28/02 1:53:32 PM Central Daylight Time, 
Delorean17_at_dml_aol.com writes:


> Hi List,
>     Before the big Memphis trip I want to have my CO mixture tuned by a 
> local 
> shop.  I see that my CO screw hole is plugged with something.  Does this 
> pop 
> out or does it have to be drilled out?  I have my intake off right now so 
> this would be the perfect time to do it.
> 
> any help would be greatly appreciated
> 
> Thanks
> David

David,

if it is the factory seal, it must be drilled out.  it is permanently sealed 
with a metal slug.  if it is the original slug, i would leave it alone 
because it should never need adjusting for the life of the vehicle unless it 
has been tampered with, which would be evident if it was NOT the factory 
slug.  if you are having rough idle or acceleration, the problem probably 
lies elsewhere and getting the CO adjusted is only going to be a bandaid for 
the main problem which will remain unsolved.  replace all vacuum lines and 
T-intersections, check vacuum solenoids for proper operation, make sure your 
fuel system is ok with proper fuel pressures, change your fuel filter if you 
haven't in the last 15K miles, etc etc.  unless i was POSITIVE that the CO 
was improper because of improper adjustments (however unlikely) i would leave 
that slug well enough alone!!

Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:41:12 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: transmission question

In a message dated 4/28/02 1:50:27 PM Central Daylight Time, jrc2905_at_dml_aol.com 
writes:


> I ordered the drive shaft seals and o rings for my 5 speed trans.
> The transmission that I have does not appear to have o-rings and is a 
> differant design than what is in my parts book. Did some cars have 
> different transmissions than what is in the parts book. I did not 
> find any info in the archives.
> John
> 

John,

you should take a picture of the transaxle and post it to the photo section.  
someone should be able to give you an answer very quickly that way!

Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 15
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:08:44 -0000
From: "techceo" <dan_at_dml_dantrimble.com>
Subject: DeLorean Financiers?

I have an '81 DL in mind from a 2nd owner in the Bay Area...went to 
look at it a few weeks back and it was in great aesthetic condition.  
(After the fuel system is put back in, we'll see about Mechanics).

Unfortunately I'm not made of money :(, so I'm looking to finance it 
from a bank...but for the life of me I haven't been able to find a 
bank who is willing to finance a DeLorean, let alone any car from 
1981.

Calling it a "classic car" when applying for the loan has either 
meant nothing to them, or they begin to enforce requirements on how 
many miles a year the car can be driven, etc. which aren't realistic 
since I'll probably be driving it a good portion of my time (but not 
exclusively).

Anyone have any suggestions on banks that are generally ok with 
financing one?


Cheers,
Dan




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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:12:53 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: unsticking a stuck door (long)

A local friend had his driver's door stick closed, so he called me over to
help find the problem.  He had the OEM door lock module still connected, and
unlocking the door with the key make it snap back to the lock position.  We
disconnected the module and later determined that the module was working
fine and probably not a factor in the problem.

The next step was to take the door panel off.  The upper panel came off
easily despite the cramped space of having the door closed.  Having the
window down helped a lot, and I pulled most of the fir trees loose using
only my fingers while standing outside the car.  The lower panel was easy,
too once I figured out what needed to come apart.  Ordinarily with the door
open, the panel can come straight off.  But with the dash knee pad/vent duct
in the way this isn't possible.  The procedure that worked for me was as
follows:  I loosened all the fir trees using just my fingers and removed the
obvious screws that needed to come out.  Then I removed the grab handle by
removing the two screws that are accessible from over the top of the panel
while flexing an obstructing rod to the side.  (Don't try removing the other
two screws that hold the sides of the handle fore & aft.  People have done
it this way, but it is not the preferred method.)  Reaching the forward
screw was a problem because the side mirror control switch was snapped
directly into the metal bracket.  Luckily DMC provided some little slots to
compress the plastic tabs to free it.  Y'all correct me if I'm wrong, but
isn't the switch supposed to mount in the plastic escutcheon and not the
metal bracket?  Once the grab handle was loose, I was able to turn it a
little and have it come straight out.  Now the only thing stopping the panel
from coming out was the metal bracket that holds the interior door
latch/handle & door lock rocker switch.  Removing two screws hidden
underneath it freed it up enough so that it could move backwards making
enough room for the front of the lower door panel to clear and come out.

Now with the whole interior of the door accessible, I thought that whatever
was sticking the door would be obvious to see, but it wasn't.  We were sure
that the door wasn't jammed on the striker pins because the door has striker
pin guides installed and the door closed properly & easily the last time and
looked properly aligned.  All the symptoms indicated that the door was still
locked.  We took the lock/unlock rods loose from the solenoid and was able
to unlock & unlatch the front latch, but the rear latch wouldn't budge.  It
just wouldn't unlock.  To make a long story a little shorter, we finally
discovered that the latches will not unlock if there is any tension on the
unlatch rods.  Disconnecting this from the bell crank relieved the tension
on it and allowed us to unlock & open the door.

We think that age & use allowed things to shift enough to get it out of
tolerance.  The fix was to readjust the length of the rear unlatch rod so
that there would be no tension left on it while the door handles were
relaxed.  This brings another interesting point:  In a previous post
recently DMC Joe explained that he found it advantageous to remove the
lock/unlock rod on the front latch to disable it from locking.  Having only
the rear latch to lock is enough to keep anyone from opening the door when
locked.  This doesn't stop the front latch from latching; it only stops the
latch from obeying signals from the door handles when locked.  I found that
the lock/unlock rod isn't really the problem, but removing it solves a
different problem:  The length of the unlatch rod connecting the front latch
to the bell crank is not adjustable.  Because of this there is sometimes a
slight tension still on the rod when the door handles are relaxed.  This
tension stops the latch from unlocking.  Thus, removing the lock/unlock rod
and leaving the latch always unlocked solves the problem.  An ideal fix
would be to lengthen the unlatch rod (which would require some
re-engineering) or to slot the 3 mounting holes for the bell crank and move
it forward (I haven't tried this, so I can't vouch that it would work.)  A
related factor is the adjustment of the exterior door handle.  If it is
adjusted too tight then it leaves tension on the unlatch rod which stops it
from unlocking.  If it is too loose then it doesn't rotate the bell crank
far enough to open the door.  If on any particular door adjusting to correct
one problem makes the other worse, then as DMC Joe said earlier, removing
the lock/unlock rod is a simple and effective fix.

Walt    Tampa, FL





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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:57:57 -0000
From: "shainbrannan" <shain_at_dml_elecmods.com>
Subject: Mid_Atlantic Spring Social / Water Pipe Blowing

Hello,

This weekend i had my first meet with the DeLorean Mid-Atlantic 
group.  I had a good time and learned a good amount of information 
about my car, and the DeLorean in general.  Unfortuantely on the way 
home that night i blew out a coolant pipe underneath the car. 
Luckily it happened 20 seconds before i pulled my car in the 
garage.  Another project that looks to be alot of fun.  I would liek 
to thank everyone for welcoming me into the group, and i look 
forward to havign another get together.
Cheers!

- Shain
#10140




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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:42:11 -0400
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Financiers?


Here's my personal opinion (which may sound harsh, but that's because it
is!!) You can take or leave at your pleasure.  If you are in need of
financing a Delorean, you should think twice about it!  Even if you know the
condition of the car and have good repair and maintenance records, it is
*still* going to cost alot in repairs and upkeep in ways that you can not
predict or anticipate... While you may have no problem with the monthly
payments if you finance the car, you may be disappointed that you can't pay
for necessary repairs to keep it on the road.

In my case, I bought a "very-good-to-almost-excellent" car two years ago for
$16,500. I was the third owner. It was owned by an original Delorean dealer
for the first 15 years of it's life and treated well.  It had all the
updates and many systems replaced/update (cooling, A/C, etc).  The stainless
was perfect.  It's only been two years, and I've already sunk about $7,000
more into the car just keeping it in a good, safe, drivable condition - and
there are still things it needs (more optional/nice-to-have than required
for safety and reliability).

For a car where you are uncertain of its mechanical condition, figure at
least $2k-$3k per year in maintenance.  If you've been reading the DML long
enough, I'm sure you're familiar with the $20k rule...

  $price-of-car +$necessary-repairs= $20k.  Give or take a little.  All I'm
saying is just be aware of what you are getting into.

The only advice I can offer loan-wise is if you have another car which is
paid off, you could take a loan out against that, and use the proceeds to
buy the D.  You could probably also use a Home Equity loan (deductible
interest!) as well.

 Good luck!

-Hank #1619




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Message: 19
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:21:00 EDT
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: DeLorean Financiers?

In a message dated 04/28/2002 7:26:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
dan_at_dml_dantrimble.com writes:

<< Anyone have any suggestions on banks that are generally ok with 
 financing one? >>

    In the case of a classic car or boat loan, similar to applying for an 
unsecured personal line of credit, your creditworthiness, income before 
taxes, and the magic number on your Personal Financial statement will take 
precedence over the cars historic value...unfortunately the DeLorean is hard 
to liquidate when time is of the essence from a banks point of view. 

    Financial Institutions want collateral, e.g., your Real Estate (home 
equity line of credit) Stock secured loan, New car, savings secured loan, 
Certificate of Deposit secured, Royalties on intellectual property (music & 
film) secured loan, etc., etc., etc. The aforementioned collateral is easy to 
liquidate if you default on the loan.  Investors actually invest in your loan 
on the secondary market. Banks want to give their stockholders and investors 
a return, so banks want to minimize their potential loss. 

    If you were to default on a loan where you have pledged stock, cash, or 
real estate, those assets can be sold to investors in a reasonable amount of 
time. Banks rarely lend for a vehicle over 6 years old because the market 
potential is smaller as the car becomes older and obscure.

    There are several classic car financiers such as JJ Best, ITT, and 
Provident Bank of Maryland. 
    In addition, a Home Equity Line of Credit can offer you a potential tax 
incentive when you draw from your credit line. Consult your tax advisor.

Best Wishes,
Michael Pack



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Message: 20
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:38:07 EDT
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: JOHN Z DELOREAN

Well things were going to well not to have a hickup in the show I received the following from John 

    Ken:

    Due to a conflict with my business schedule Sally and I will  not be able
    to attend the upcoming Car Show in Graceland.

            My most sincere apologies,

                    John Z. DeLorean


I have talked to Kathryn and John since, and John has a conflict on that date and that just came up this week. Kathryn still plans to attend.

Its difficult to plan a show like this and I was looking forward to seeing 
John again.

He did offer to make a video to address the group for the show but we have not reached a date to do it yet so I do not know what we will have.  I will try to get something for you all from John but its too soon to tell what or if.

The show is progressing to be one of the biggest ever and even without John we will have the best show ever.  The half hour John agreed to speak on Friday night will be replaced by adding more details of the factory tour and a question and answer session by George Crane.  I am sure after you hear George he will be a regular at the show.

There is also a possibility that I can get DJ Fontain. Now who is DJ Fontain some of you ask.....

He was the Drummer in Elvis's band and he has tentatively stated he would like to come since Elvis hasn't returned an RSVP. DJ is very funny and entertaining and would round out the whole Elvis Experience.

I am also working on getting a special car to the show but that is still in the works so there is more than enough to do.

My thanks to all of you and I am as sorry as you are that John will not be able to make it this time.

I will continue trying to bring him to the shows as long as his health holds up and I am doing shows.

I hope this doesn't change any of your minds since we are going to have the best DeLorean Car Show EVER

Thanks 

Ken



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Message: 21
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:13:37 -0400
From: "Jack Stiefel" <jackstiefel_at_dml_sacketmansion.com>
Subject: RE: DeLorean Financiers?

I usually don't talk prices and numbers, but we are all D owners here
and know the cars very well.  Hank's comments made me start thinking.  I
have owned my D for 5 years now, and have not hit the 20K mark, and I
won 1st place in my category at Cleveland (those of you who saw me there
may attest to the condition of my D).  I paid $14K for it and my repairs
for all five years to the best of my recollection have totaled less than
$4K.  That works out to be less then a grand a year in repairs.  I have
also put over 25 thousand miles on the car in those 5 years.  Now these
figures are repairs, not restoration.  I have chosen to make certain
parts replacements as I felt necessary that would add to my total costs,
but I don't believe that replacing all of the light lenses, recovering
seats due to age, etc. etc. BIG ETC. should be factored in to the repair
costs.  These are simply things to make my car look as new as possible.

I am not saying anything more then what my history has been.  I may have
lucked out and gotten a treasure, but then again Hanks sounded like a
sweet deal with his being owned by a Delorean dealer for 15 years, and
he has put in a lot more then I have in repairs ( no offence Hank, some
cars cost more then others to maintain.  Just the luck of the draw).

I may not have the same past as Hank has in repair costs, but I have no
problem siding with him in the matter of financing a car.  There is a
reason Banks will not generally finance a car of that age.  My feelings
are, if you do not have the money in your pocket, wait and save it up
until you do, or rethink your purchase.  These cars are unique in the
fact that almost every one looks new on the outside.  It is what comes
up after signing the check that means the difference between a fine
maintained automobile and a yard planter.

Just my 2 cents.  I am sure there are lots of others with differing
opinions, this is just mine.

Jack  & Virginia Stiefel http://www.sacketmansion.com
1981 DeLorean Vin 3461 August 1981 Build
1988 Jaguar XJ-SC V-12
Live Internet Radio at 104.9 Radio Cape Vincent
http://www.radiocapevincent.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Hank Eskin [mailto:heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net] 
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 7:42 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com; dan_at_dml_dantrimble.com
Subject: Re: [DML] DeLorean Financiers?



Here's my personal opinion (which may sound harsh, but that's because it
is!!) You can take or leave at your pleasure.  If you are in need of
financing a Delorean, you should think twice about it!  ..
-Hank #1619



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Message: 22
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:43:26 -0500
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: DeLorean Financiers?

I financed mine through a credit union.  All I had to do was
provide some sources to show what the car was worth and what
the general market was and they were happy to provide the loan.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: techceo [mailto:dan_at_dml_dantrimble.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 4:09 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] DeLorean Financiers?

>snip<

Anyone have any suggestions on banks that are generally ok with
financing one?


Cheers,
Dan



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Message: 23
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:45:00 -0500
From: "Jerry Condray" <genghis_at_dml_sctelcom.net>
Subject: "Engine Number" location

Can't seem to find it.

I've looked with flashlite & mirror at the area around the catalytic
converter.  There is a rusty plate on the CAT but that would not be the
engine number.  I see a number on the exhaust manifold and a number moulded
into the head.  The two replies I received on the question before were
inconsistent.  One said an aluminum plate rivited to the mounting cradle;
the other said a rusty plate near the CAT.

I wanted the engine number to use in filling out a replica window sticker.

Thanks,  Jerry.





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Message: 24
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:26:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: hugo mederos <miami5606_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: DeLorean Financiers?


What Insurance companys do you have Is it full
coverage and are you limited in miles per year?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com



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Message: 25
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 03:29:38 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Mid_Atlantic Spring Social

I saw most of the cars at the Spring Social close-up and have the 
following comments to make on the conditions I observed:
Even if the owner knew the correct tire pressures they were wrong, I 
found on 1 car a front tire _at_dml_ 16 psi and tires as high as 44 PSI. 
Owners, check the decal inside the glove box door and check your 
tires! Fronts are to be at 23 PSI, Rear at 30 PSI and the spare at 60. 
If you insist on deviating from these pressures you should not go more 
than = - 2 psi measured cold. Cold means before driving the car or at 
least 3 hours after driving. Always keep fronts at the SAME and the 
rears at the SAME i.e. don't deviate side to side. If you run 
different than recommeded then keep an eye on the tires with a tread 
gauge.
 Other important things noticed, 
Of all the cars I saw for "door adjustments" only 1 needed an 
adjustment of a torsion bar and only on 1 side (in fact I loosened it 
1 notch). In all other cases either the doors were fine or just needed 
new struts.
 Many cars were not properly set up to idle correctly, in fact some 
were missing the plug over the mixture screw and the 3 brass screws 
had been turned in an attempt to "adjust" the idle. ANY vacuum leaks 
will cause the motor to not run smooth including a hissing mode 
switch.
 Many cars are still running on the origional hoses and had crazed 
header bottles.
 Many cars are still using the "fan fail bypass" and the origional 
door lock module.
 Many cars still have not had the "Relay update kit" installed
 Many cars need to have the door lock pins properly adjusted
 Most cars have not had the brake fluid changed for more than 2 years
In summary many of the cars need much more maintaince then the owners 
have done to become reliable and safe. Not only are they reducing the 
reliability of the cars, the eventual repairs will be more expensive 
and in some cases they are endangering their safety. It is very easy 
to overlook many areas of the car because some of these happen to be 
underneath or in other hard to see areas. This does not diminish the 
importance of checking them. With many owners planning for a long trip 
to Memphis I urge you before you go to put the car on a lift and have 
the car thoughly inspected. There is no excuse for not having the 
correct tire pressures, this is indicitive of the lack of attention to 
other more important areas. I do not say this to help any vender sell 
more parts, I want every owner to be able to drive his 20 year old car 
with confidence and not get stuck by the side of the road. As our cars 
get older they require more and more TLC. Just shining them up and 
getting the doors to work isn't that important if it strands you away 
from home! The cooling system is one area that requires the most 
attention because of the complexity and age of the components.
As always IN MY HUMBLE OPINION!!!!!!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "shainbrannan" <shain_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> This weekend i had my first meet with the DeLorean Mid-Atlantic 
> group.  I had a good time and learned a good amount of information 
> about my car, and the DeLorean in general.  Unfortuantely on the way 
> home that night i blew out a coolant pipe underneath the car. 
> Luckily it happened 20 seconds before i pulled my car in the 
> garage.  Another project that looks to be alot of fun.  I would liek 
> to thank everyone for welcoming me into the group, and i look 
> forward to havign another get together.
> Cheers!
> 
> - Shain
> #10140




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