From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1021
Date: Saturday, May 11, 2002 1:18 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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There are 23 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: rental hauling
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com

2. Re: FRAM E-Z Oil Change
From: "Andrei Cular" <acular1_at_dml_tampabay.rr.com>

3. RE: sure a 17 yr old can own a delorean
From: "Jack Stiefel" <jackstiefel_at_dml_sacketmansion.com>

4. Re: FRAM E-Z Oil Change
From: "dmc6960" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>

5. rental hauling...hire a professional transport company for the same cost.
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

6. Beware This Auction
From: "Michael Babb" <michael_at_dml_babbtechnology.com>

7. Re: Re: courtesy/door light mod
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

8. Re: Steering Bushing
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

9. Re: FRAM E-Z Oil Change
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

10. Re: Re: DeLorean for 17year old
From: "Jeremy D." <thesmokingman_at_dml_comcast.net>

11. Re: Steering Bushing
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

12. Re: vacuum leak?
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

13. Re: Oil Pan Removal
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

14. Re: door problem
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

15. Re: chick magnet-NOT (was DeLorean for 17year old)
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

16. Re: Re: DeLorean for 17year old
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

17. Re: Steering Bushing
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

18. Re: FRAM E-Z Oil Change
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

19. free flow exhausts-legality?
From: "nbrommer2k" <nickbrom_at_dml_aol.com>

20. Re: Re: courtesy/door light mod
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

21. RE: sure a 17 yr old can own a delorean
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

22. Re: Steering Bushing
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

23. Dealership signs
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 22:10:51 EDT
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: rental hauling

I have used UHaul (truck and trailer). The Delorean does fit on the UHaul 
trailer. It is tight,but workable. Cant provide any info on other brands. 
Good luck.
Bruce Battles
Vin.# 06569



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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 22:18:02 -0400
From: "Andrei Cular" <acular1_at_dml_tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: FRAM E-Z Oil Change

We have used these valves for years on inboard boats.  If you think the
drain plug on a D is hard to get at try a 29ft sport fish with twin 454's.
The valves that I have used in the past would not fit in the stock location
of a D, I am not sure about the Fram versions.  Some people get nervous
about the valve opening while the engine is running but it does have a
spring loaded catch that must be lifted or pressed down, depends on the
manufacture, then rotated 90deg to open the valve.

If anyone finds a valve that will fit the D please let me know.




Andrei
#2767



----- Original Message -----
From: "Watkins Family" <watbmv_at_dml_megalink.net>
To: "DMC News list" <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 3:38 PM
Subject: [DML] FRAM E-Z Oil Change


> I know we are on a "Fram sucks" thread but, has anyone seen the new
> "SURE DRAIN"  product from FRAM?  It's a replacement for the oil drain
> plug that quick connects to a drain hose.  You don't have to remove the
> plug, just attach the connector twist it and the oil drains out.  There
> are different sizes for the specific oil drain opening (not sure what
> size ours is!)  Has anyone tried this new product, if so does it work
> well?
>
> I use aluminum foil to cover the frame when draining my oil, it's a easy
> masking to use but if this product really works it would make oil
> changes much easier.
>
> Tom
> #05732
>
> http://www.geocities.com/outatime81/



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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 22:38:08 -0400
From: "Jack Stiefel" <jackstiefel_at_dml_sacketmansion.com>
Subject: RE: sure a 17 yr old can own a delorean

[MODERATOR NOTE: This post borders on antagonism.  Remember, we're not here to pick fights.  - Mike Substelny, this week's DML moderator]

OK Children, lets grow up a little bit.  I am not sure many of us out
here care who was the youngest, nor does it really matter in the grand
scheme of things.  If you paid with your own money, or parents, what's
the difference?  If your name is on the title, you own the car.  At 15
or 16 or even 17, you weren't on your own anyway.  My father uses the
phrase " out of one pocket into another".  Now if you left home at 15,
got a job, saved up and then paid for your DeLorean while paying rent,
utilities and such, I might... MIGHT be impressed.

Just 2 cents   

Jack  & Virginia Stiefel http://www.sacketmansion.com
1981 DeLorean Vin 3461 August 1981 Build
1988 Jaguar XJ-SC V-12
Live Internet Radio at 104.9 Radio Cape Vincent
http://www.radiocapevincent.com


[moderator snip]



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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:35:08 -0000
From: "dmc6960" <ultra_at_dml_isd.net>
Subject: Re: FRAM E-Z Oil Change

I have no knoledge of the FRAM Sure Drain, but I do have a suggestion 
if you want to avoid getting oil all over your frame.  Take a 
foot-long cardboard tube from a paper towel roll, and put one slice 
down the side of it and fold it outward.  Then stick it up between the 
frame and oil pan, and it stays there nice and snug.  Then pull out 
the oil plug and it acts as a very nice channel to send the oil down 
to the drain pan.  Happy oil changing.

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
DMC-6960

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Watkins Family <watbmv_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> I know we are on a "Fram sucks" thread but, has anyone seen the new
> "SURE DRAIN"  product from FRAM?  It's a replacement for the oil 
> drain plug that quick connects to a drain hose.

[moderator snip]



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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:50:01 EDT
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: rental hauling...hire a professional transport company for the same cost.


    The price of renting the truck and trailer from Penske, plus total 
miscellaneous costs along with possible towing damage, exceeds the cost to 
have the professional exotic car transport companies ship you car.

    When I shipped my car back to PJ Grady for more restoration work in 2000, 
I rented a Penske truck. The truck was a brand Chevrolet box type, as was the 
trailer. (I have a picture if anyone wants to see the DMC on the trailer.) 

    The journey was good, as was the experience. However, I must suggest that 
you investigate the cost of hiring a professional transport company deliver 
your car to your destination. In the long run, the cost is about the 
same...without the aggravation.

    The trucks have a speed governor. The maximum speed you can travel is 60 
miles per hour. The average speed on Interstate 95 thru Maryland & the New 
Jersey Turnpike is well over 80+ miles per hour. Cars and Semi-Trucks were 
flying past me...needless to say it was a long drive from Washington, DC to 
New York.
    In addition, the DeLorean on the trailer caused too much unwanted 
attention on the highway. The "Family Truckster" stationwagons with excessive 
cargo blocking the drivers view and dangerous minivans mommies driving 55mph 
in the fast lane & and just about everyone else almost had an accident trying 
to see what kind of car I was shipping on the trailer.

     Additionally, the rental truck & trailer towing setup is a poor 
combination. The best method is the gooseneck or fifth wheel type of hitch 
for car trailer transport. The fithwheel is better for car trailer towing 
than the bumper and hitch set up, since the fithwheel is over the truck rear 
wheels & the trailer has better weight distribution, e.g., tractor trailers 
are built this way.
    The bumper and hitch set up, found on the rental trucks, the slightest 
steering wheel input, such as avoiding a pot hole, can create a disastrous 
left & right trailer swing causing the truck to flip. Additionally, the cross 
winds really pushed the truck hard.
    In addition, rental trucks take a real beating from the public. The 
trucks are notorious for catching fire and burning to the ground.

    The truck rental costs, insurance, gasoline (they drink gas like water & 
you must fill up when you return the truck or pay an additional charge), road 
tolls, two days away from my business, one way from Maryland to Ronkoncoma 
Long Island, New York, the cost for an airplane ticket home, plus any 
miscellaneous costs, exceeded the cost from a professional exotic & classic 
car transport company.

    Best Wishes,
    Michael Pack
    



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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:52:56 -0400
From: "Michael Babb" <michael_at_dml_babbtechnology.com>
Subject: Beware This Auction

Just as an FYI to anyone considering purchasing a DeLorean on E-Bay: The
pictures of the car for the auction at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1827530663
&r=0&t=0 (1827530663) are NOT the pictures of the actual car. They are
pictures that I took of my old car about 2 years ago (and Tyler's new
car).  The auction may be for a very nice D, but don't bid based on the
images!

MICHAEL C. BABB






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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 01:52:22 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: courtesy/door light mod

In a message dated 5/9/02 9:02:42 PM Central Daylight Time, DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com 
writes:


> Just wondering because I do see the topic of door light switches 
> appear semi-frequently.
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"

Robert, 

i too have a brand new battery but in the past i had some problems.  i did 
this primarily for shows or when i'm doing some interior work (instrument 
cluster service, taking out the console, etc).  i had MAJOR problems with 
those stupid door light switches so i have them all rigged up so they will 
NEVER give me any more problems, and i'd prefer to never have to touch them 
again, even to disconnect them for service.  it's for peace of mind more than 
anything.  now i KNOW my battery will not be weak!

Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 02:07:27 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Steering Bushing

In a message dated 5/9/02 9:03:26 PM Central Daylight Time, cpgny9_at_dml_yahoo.com 
writes:


> Has anyone installed the steering bushing themselves?  I am ordering 
> some parts and thought that this was something that I could do on my 
> own. I plan on getting an allignment once I get the bushing 
> replaced.  Any comments or experiences with this job would be 
> appreciated
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris
> 20006
> 

Chris,

by far the most difficult part is seperating the U-joints on the intermediate 
shaft from the column.  you better start pouring liquid wrench on them NOW 
while you are waiting for parts because they can be a beast.  loosen up the 
pinch bolts while you are at it so you don't waste all day doing them another 
time.  think smart and get yourself ready for the job.  this can be a tricky 
one.  before you seperate the U-joints, try to mark them somehow, preferably 
by scoring them with a razor or screwdriver so you can line the splines up 
again when you are done.  that way you won't need an alignment when you are 
done!  Two people will probably be needed, one to pull the shaft and another 
to hold the joint, or else you will pull the shaft from the steering rack or 
worse.  i would seriously give some thought to replacing the whole steering 
intermediate shaft while you are in there.  now is the time!  get one from 
specialtyauto.com and get both U-joints and a racecar quality shaft.  the 
lower U-joint will typically go out first because of the water and dirt that 
is splashed up from the wheels.  if nothing else, lubricate them with some 
80w90 gear oil really well.  if you accidently seperate the collapsable 
steering column, you should be able to put it together correctly again by 
taking note of where the grease marks are at on it.  if the problem occurs, 
you will see what i mean.  it is important to keep the two tubes the same 
distance inside each other, otherwise when you mount the column again, the 
shaft may not go on or will be angled funny.  here's a tip for the bushing 
installation.  get a long pipe that will stick out farther than the dashboard 
when it is against the firewall.  you will want to put the bushing in, put 
the pipe against the bushing, and hammer the bushing in by hitting the pipe 
out in the open where you can get a couple of good swings.  this will make 
the bushing go into the metal plate easier. other than that, the project just 
takes all day because of how much stuff you had to disassemble!!!!

i did this a couple months ago, email me if you have any other questions.
Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 06:54:55 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: FRAM E-Z Oil Change

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Watkins Family <watbmv_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> I know we are on a "Fram sucks" thread but, has anyone seen 
the new
> "SURE DRAIN"  product from FRAM? 
<SNIP>

Ironicly enough, I myself have already installed one of these. But 
not on the DeLorean though. I've got one on my pickup truck. It 
does install easy. How well it drains oil, I won't know for about 
2600 more miles though!  After installing it, I am a bit concerned 
that it won't drain all of the oil out. It does after all have a bit of a 
lip on the inner bolt inside of the oil pan. But it shouldn't be all 
that bad, becase the pan itself does have the plug at the lowest 
point. Other than that, the long hose that it comes with looks to 
be a bit messy. So I'll probably just trim it down a bit.

Looking at the unit, it may be possible to install onto the 
DeLorean oil pan. But due to the cramped space around the 
drain plug, it would be easier for me to just stick wth the existing 
plug. The most mess that I ever have when changing my oil is 
just a couple of drops on my gloves. So for the amount of labor it 
would take to connect the plug, I'd probably just use the idea of 
covering the crossbrace with disposable foil. Although right now, 
I just wipe it down with a laundered shop rag. For the D, it's not 
something I plan on installing. But it is a novel idea. If nothing 
else, you don't need to search around for the correct socket. And 
I imagine that it will become quite a profitable item for FRAM. I 
wonder how many people will end up buying a 2nd unit because 
they've lost the drain hose between now and their next oil 
change...

While I personally will never again use their oil filters, I've never 
had a problem with anything else FRAM has made for my other 
vehicles like air filters, PCV valves, etc... Hopefully the Sure Drain 
system will be one of the items on the useful list for my other 
vehicles.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 04:10:03 -0400
From: "Jeremy D." <thesmokingman_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Re: DeLorean for 17year old

Hiya Ian. You seem like a bright young man and you remind me of myself
at your age. I became interested in DeLoreans at around 15 and I eventually
bought one last year when I was 19. I wish I could go back and tell 
myself the things I know now.

<<Like a lot of people (especially those in my age bracket), 
<<my primary concern is the cost of the vehicle. Using this 
<<as a basis for reasoning, it is almost completely illogical 
<<that I'm looking for a DeLorean. However, I'd be willing to 
<<put in the copious amounts of time and money 

I think most people underestimate the expense involved with restoring and
maintaining these vehicles. The initial cost of the car is just a drop 
in the bucket.
Especially if your planning on buying a car that needs extensive 
restoration like the one you described. You can save money by doing your own work, but 
it's important that you feel comfortable and have experience working on cars.

<<and I really think that'd be a better experience than 
<<buying a perfect condition concours car or even a 
<<decent-quality daily driver.

If you buy a project car be prepared to have it sit in your garage while
you spend large amounts of time and money restoring it. A lot of people fall
into this trap. They get tired of putting so much energy into a car they 
can't even drive and end up bitter and resentful of the car. Generally, unless you
enjoy the restoration process, I would recommend buying the best car you 
can afford. And if you cant afford a car in decent shape, you should wait until you can.

<<The car I'm currently looking at (I've posted about 
<<it before) is a very short distance from my house, at a 
<<truck yard. It's been there for a while and obviously 
<<doesn't run, but externally appears to be in good condition. 
<<It needs a bath badly, but the stainless doesn't appear to 
<<be dented or have major defects.

Be very careful with this car. You may have found a good project or a
car with more problems than you may prepared to deal with. My advice
is to make friends with a few DeLorean owners and have them come out
and thoroughly inspect it with you.

<<Another worry is the cost of insurance, but I have a strong 
<<sense that insurance companies would give me a hard time 
<<and high premiums for everything except a Yugo with a 
<<three-cylinder Mazda rotary engine.

Insurance is a huge headache for most young DeLorean owners. It's
either unavailable or the rates are unreasonable and out of reach. My
recommendation is to insure the car through your parents (you may need
to title it in their name) and buy another cheap daily driver car to 
insure in your name.

<<All in all, I think that a DeLorean is a very worthy automobile 
<<for my personal use (at least on the weekends, when I can use 
<<it to attract females and offers of money at the local shopping 
<<mall). It's a tad out of reach for most teenagers, but I still 
<<think it'd be a good investment, since the rarity and curiosity 
<<of the cars will most likely cause them only to increase in value.

Wrong on both counts. The car is definitely not a good investment. And 
the only people I have attracted so far with my car are other guys (car guys that is) so 
don't expect a DeLorean to turn you into some kind of Don Juan ;).

I think you've thought this through pretty carefully and you'll make a 
good owner, but you may be underestimating the demands of the car. Your right that it
is out of reach for most teenagers because most teenagers simply cant 
meet the monetary needs of a DeLorean. If you have limited income you should probably
wait until you can better afford it. That's probably my advice to you, 
take your time and buy the car when the time is right. You'll avoid making a bad 
decision, and you'll own the car instead of the car owning you.

Take care
-Jeremy
10842



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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:20:48 -0000
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Steering Bushing

I also did this recently, following Andy's advice I purposely 
separated the steering column. Overall it took about 2 hours, with NO 
assistant. I had separated the u-joint a couple of years ago and put 
anti-sieze compound on it at that time, so no problem. It was a huge 
deal the first time though. If yours has never been apart the all-day 
estimate may not be far off.

The manual is pretty accurate on this - remove the pads on either 
side of the steering column AND the bracket that hangs down. You can 
get the column OUT with the bracket there, but it gets seriously in 
the way when you go to put it back together and you may break the new 
bushing due to the low angle on the steering column.

The most obnoxious part was probably driving the new bushing in to 
place, what Andy stated works fine. I used a long extension with 
about a 1" socket on it for the same purpose (I have an older set of 
crummy sockets for just such purposes). 

When you put it back together, put the lower part of the still-
separated steering column thru the bushing first, and loosely 
assemble the u-joints. THEN slide the rest of the steering column 
into place over it and raise into position. Where most people have 
the problem is trying to put the column thru the bushing all in one 
piece, since the column tends to retract into the collapsible part.

Dave Swingle

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/9/02 9:03:26 PM Central Daylight Time, 
cpgny9_at_dml_y... 
> writes:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone installed the steering bushing themselves?  I am 
ordering 
----
> by far the most difficult part is seperating the U-joints on the 
intermediate 
> shaft from the column.  you better start pouring liquid wrench on 
them NOW 
----
>here's a tip for the bushing 
> installation.  get a long pipe that will stick out farther than the 
dashboard 
> when it is against the firewall.  you will want to put the bushing 
in, put 
> the pipe against the bushing, and hammer the bushing in by hitting 
the pipe 
> out in the open where you can get a couple of good swings.  this 
will make 
> the bushing go into the metal plate easier. other than that, the 
project just 
> takes all day because of how much stuff you had to disassemble!!!!




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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:32:20 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: vacuum leak?

Andy,

The answer to your question is "yes". The adapter plate you are describing
is an air seal for the inlet manifold front section.

DMC Joe
Tech Information, DMC Joe Help Club, & Store
"Summer Parts Sale"
http://shopping.oraclesmallbusiness.com/dsvstore
DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv

----- Original Message -----
From: <Soma576_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: [DML] vacuum leak?


> Hey all,
>
> today i was tinkering with my car and i noticed something odd.  you know
that
> plate that sits on the W-pipe on the intake manifold?  there are two bolts
> that hold it down to the manifold with a paper gasket between them.  one
on
> of the bolts there is a wire harness clip holding the engine wiring.
anyway,
> i noticed that i was missing a bolt in it, probably from this winter when
i
> put my new waterpump in.  i have some extra hardware around so i put a
bolt
> and washer in it, and started the car.  it seems to run a little smoother,
or
> maybe it's just my imagination.
>
> would this plate being loose or missing a bolt cause a vacuum leak?  i
don't
> remember what is under the plate from this winter.  perhaps this is
another
> place where people should look when they have a rough idle....
>
> Andy
>
> Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
> 1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
> Fargo, ND 58102





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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:35:52 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Pan Removal

Jason,

Contact me directly for a simple procedure to remove and replace you oil
pan.

DMC Joe
Tech Information, DMC Joe Help Club, & Store
"Summer Parts Sale"
http://shopping.oraclesmallbusiness.com/dsvstore
DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv

----- Original Message -----
From: "jason3625" <jason_at_dml_pcupgraders.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 9:25 PM
Subject: [DML] Oil Pan Removal


> Hello All....  over the weekend I decided to do a routine Oil Change
> that ended up being my worst experience yet with my D.  Come to find
> out the person who changed it last stripped the Threads in the Oil
> Pan. 

[moderator snip]



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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:44:23 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: door problem

Marvin,

The answer to your door lock problem may be found in my technical writing at
the following link . Door Lock Module:
http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/doorlock.html

DMC Joe
Tech Information, DMC Joe Help Club, & Store
"Summer Parts Sale"
http://shopping.oraclesmallbusiness.com/dsvstore
DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv




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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:10:22 -0400
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: chick magnet-NOT (was DeLorean for 17year old)

> the only people I have attracted so far with my car are other guys (car
guys that is) so
> don't expect a DeLorean to turn you into some kind of Don Juan ;).

I'll second this.. the car is definitely a guy-magnet.  In the two years
I've owned my D (excluding the Cleveland show), I can't remember one woman
who was the least bit interested in the car.  A few know about it, but the
rest could not care less. Their boyfriends and husbands on the other
hand....countless.

I was recently dating a woman (a smart doctor, no less) who did not even
know about the car (which is bad enough), but she kept calling it my
"Lamborghini".   She's now history.

-Hank





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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:06:15 EDT
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: DeLorean for 17year old

In a message dated 5/10/02 8:56:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
thesmokingman_at_dml_comcast.net writes:


> I responded to this once before and I think that the idea of young person 
> owning a DeLorean is a great idea.  I have seen a number of young owners 
> over the past year from Ryan in Phoenix (actively organizes DeLorean 
> events) who fixes nothing on his own (sorry Ryan) to Nick who completely 
> disassembled his. Rebuilt it in the dead of winter then sold it, bought 
> another, or Jim in Minnesota and Josh in Cincinnati that are somewhere in 
> between.
> 
> All of them bring with them the enthusiasm needed.  As far as the financial 
> I have a Mustang for my daughter and it cost me a lot more than maintenance 
> of my DeLorean or other Deloreans I have seen.  Today there are few kids 
> that have cars as interests.  Most of us mid life crisis owners spent hours 
> and big bucks back in the 60's and 70's on cars that rusted in one year.  
> (Not too many Dodge Super Bee's left or Ford Torinos, Novas, Cameros loved 
> to rust around the shocks and any Chrysler or Datun and lets not forget the 
> Rabbit. Rustbuckets or bondo bombs we called them.)
> The experience and the technical expertise these kids get will be with them 
> the rest of their lives and eventually they will actually be able to afford 
> one comfortably.

And these bodies won't rust.   

All I did when I needed money for my car was put in a few  more hours 
somewhere. 

Bottom line is our young owners seem to be doing well and it certainly is a 
learning experience they will have for the rest of their lives and look at 
all the support they have now.  

I find the younger people to be very helpful in the internet like Tamir and 
Shannon and others who give me a level of support that I wish I had 6 years 
ago.  So they compliment, I think, the group as a whole.

Wish I had that on my 69 Sunbeam.  Just like Maxwell Smart Had.

Welcome to all the new young owners. 

Ken



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:19:09 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Steering Bushing

Andy,

You said:
".......... i would seriously give some thought to replacing the whole
steering intermediate shaft while you are in there."

The Intermediate Steering Column shaft part #100840 has an extremely low
failure rate (less than 1% _at_dml_ 100k miles). At a cost of $240 to $350.00
depending on which vendor you purchase this part from I believe a DeLorean
owner would be better off putting that money elsewhere. The shaft rarely
needs replacement unless damaged. On the other hand the steering rack
wears out over time and has a replacement rate of 50% _at_dml_ 100k miles.

If an owner decides to spend that amount of money on the steering system the
purchase of a steering rack would be a much more cost effective purchase.

DMC Joe
Tech Information, DMC Joe Help Club, & Store
"Summer Parts Sale"
http://shopping.oraclesmallbusiness.com/dsvstore
DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv



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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:24:04 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: FRAM E-Z Oil Change

 I have used similar things in the past usually in odd locations like 
stationary powerplants and boats. I dislike the idea of putting them 
into cars as they usually tend to stick down a little and my fear is 
they would snag something on the road and get ripped off with the 
consequences being a total loss of oil and the possible destruction of 
the motor for a little convenience. You have to lift the car to catch 
the oil anyway and it's easier to change the filter from underneath (I 
never tried from above so I don't know if it is even possible). If you 
drive your car like most owners you will only change the oil once a 
year at most anyway and it gives you a chance to look around 
underneath which is a good thing. I wonder if that drain is available 
in metric anyway. If getting oil on your hands is the problem get a 
box of latex or nitrile gloves. (Nitrile is alot more durable and 
avoids the possibility of latex reactions even though they are more 
expensive.) Another tip is never overfill the engine with oil. It can 
cause leaks and foaming. Check the level when cold, before you use the 
car in the morning, it should be between the two cuts in the side of 
the dipstick on level ground.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



-- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...> wrote:
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Watkins Family <watbmv_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> > I know we are on a "Fram sucks" thread but, has anyone seen 
> the new
> > "SURE DRAIN"  product from FRAM? 
> <SNIP>
> 
> Ironicly enough, I myself have already installed one of these. But 
> not on the DeLorean though. I've got one on my pickup truck. It 
> does install easy. How well it drains oil, I won't know for about 
> 2600 more miles though!  After installing it, I am a bit concerned 
> that it won't drain all of the oil out. It does after all have a bit 





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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:27:50 -0000
From: "nbrommer2k" <nickbrom_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: free flow exhausts-legality?

What is the legality of such a free-flow exhaust in the US? And what 
kind of repercussions would such a system have on emissions tests?

One more: What does the cost translate into American Dollars?

Nick




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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 17:44:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: Re: Re: courtesy/door light mod

Don't forget that DMC Joe sells a solution for this. It takes about a
minute to install. It's just a box with a switch that you can keep on your
shelf with wires (with inline fuse) that run back to the courtesy fuse. I
think he sells them for something like 15 or 20 dollars. Works great.

-Christian

On Fri, 10 May 2002 Soma576_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/9/02 9:02:42 PM Central Daylight Time, DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com
> writes:
>
>
> > Just wondering because I do see the topic of door light switches
> > appear semi-frequently.
> >
> > -Robert
> > vin 6585 "X"

[moderator snip]



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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:12:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: RE: sure a 17 yr old can own a delorean

Speaking for the younger generation of DeLorean owners, the only thing
that really comes into play when thinking about buying a DeLorean is
experience. By experience, I mean all sorts. If you have business
experience, you can land a great job that will more than pay for
maintenence and repairs that these cars will undoubtedly need. If you have
experience in working on cars, then business experience and a high paying
job may not be as necessary (but always helps). Experience with
negociation and just plain dealing with people will help you to see if the
seller might be hiding anything. And most importantly, experience with
DeLoreans is mandatory so that you know what to look for.

I can't stress this last point enough, as I bought my DeLorean with little
DeLorean experience. But then again it would have been impossible for me
to have the level of experience that I now have with DeLoreans when I
bought mine. It's really not until you're around them enough (or have
owned one long enough) that you start to notice all of the minor
differences between your car and others. My friends all say that DeLorean
car shows are silly because they all look the same. I go to a DeLorean car
show and see where my car needs improvement.

And Jack, I'm surprised that you didn't take your 2 cents and list it as
an asset in your signature.

-Christian

On Thu, 9 May 2002, Jack Stiefel wrote:

> [MODERATOR NOTE: This post borders on antagonism.  Remember, we're not here to pick fights.  - Mike Substelny, this week's DML moderator]
>
> OK Children, lets grow up a little bit.  I am not sure many of us out
> here care who was the youngest, nor does it really matter in the grand
> scheme of things.  If you paid with your own money, or parents, what's
> the difference?  If your name is on the title, you own the car.  At 15
> or 16 or even 17, you weren't on your own anyway.  My father uses the
> phrase " out of one pocket into another".  Now if you left home at 15,
> got a job, saved up and then paid for your DeLorean while paying rent,
> utilities and such, I might... MIGHT be impressed.
>
> Just 2 cents
>
> Jack  & Virginia Stiefel http://www.sacketmansion.com
> 1981 DeLorean Vin 3461 August 1981 Build
> 1988 Jaguar XJ-SC V-12
> Live Internet Radio at 104.9 Radio Cape Vincent
> http://www.radiocapevincent.com



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Message: 22
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 20:53:11 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Steering Bushing

As a variation on the theme, "we" used a short piece of 2x4 and pushed
really hard by foot.  I tried, but couldn't push hard enough.  Another guy
with a heavier foot drove it in, and I don't think it is ever coming out
again.  It was a little hard on the drivers seat (just like stepping on the
brake pedal while driving only more extreme), so I think I like Andy's pipe
idea better.  This was for PJ Grady's bushing.  The ones from Daryl T might
be different.  My car still has the one that it came with from the previous
owner.  It is a soft plastic that 'grunts' occasionally as I turn the wheel.
A little oil makes it quiet for a while and then it gets noisy again (just
like DMC Joe predicted).  I have a new one to put in there, but don't have
the time to install it.  It's strange how I always manage to spend an hour a
day playing on the computer but not on the car.  :-)

Walt    Tampa, FL

> get a long pipe that will stick out farther than the dashboard
> when it is against the firewall.  you will want to put the bushing in, put
> the pipe against the bushing, and hammer the bushing in by hitting the
pipe
> out in the open where you can get a couple of good swings.






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Message: 23
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 20:55:40 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Dealership signs

I just brought home today the real thing: a DeLorean dealership sign.  My
coolness factor has suddenly almost doubled.  :-)

I found out about this sign by bidding on one that was on eBay recently.  As
with every dealership sign, there are two sides and the side that I got was
the other side to the one on eBay.  I would have bought both sides, but
someone outbid me literally at the last minute.  Don't you just hate that?
At the time I was the high bidder and didn't want to outbid myself by
increasing my maximum bid.  Then I lost track of the time and forgot when
the auction ended.

Anyway, the sign that I got is in slightly better condition than the one on
eBay.  (Childish sarcastic raspberry to the guy who outbid me. ;-)  This one
is missing the "D" instead of the "C".  If I got both signs I would have
mixed & matched the letters to make one original sign and then had new
letters made to make the donor sign complete.  But it didn't work out that
way.  If the buyer of the other sign is reading this, I'll consider selling
you my "M" & "C" because your "M" is less perfect than mine and you need the
"C" anyway.  For mine I will probably use the letters I have for a pattern
to replace all three letters so they match.  Your sign was already all boxed
up waiting to be shipped when I saw it today.  I saw both signs a week
earlier before the auction ended.

Now some questions for y'all:
Does anyone have a spare letter "D" for sale?  I presume that a "C" that is
flipped over would be the same as a "D".

Is this something that a local sign company could make?  Or should it be
done by a SS fabricator?

How common is it for the stainless letters to fall off of these signs?

How does one remove the remaining letters without screwing things up?

Are the stainless sections supposed to be painted with a crummy clear coat
or is this something that someone did locally?

For those who are curious, the sign measures 11' 4" x 3' 0" and is only a
few inches thick.  The DMC letters are polished SS and the background is
brushed SS like the car.  The white areas are translucent plastic and the
back areas are painted aluminum sheet.

I'm thinking about hanging it high on a wall in the house and using it as a
light fixture.  I can't hang it in my garage without blocking things.
Eccentric I am?  What some people use for transportation, others have as a
lifestyle.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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