From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1022
Date: Sunday, May 12, 2002 6:02 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: chick magnet-NOT (was DeLorean for 17year old)
From: "dmcman82" <dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com>

2. Re: free flow exhausts-legality?
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>

3. Freak Thing? - Almost got knocked out by my passenger door!
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>

4. Great Service!
From: "Ace Underhill" <aceu_at_dml_brilliantscreen.com>

5. Exhaust manifolds removal?
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>

6. Re: Steering Bushing
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

7. Re: free flow exhausts-legality?
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

8. Re: chick magnet-NOT (was DeLorean for 17year old)
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

9. Front springs
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>

10. Re: Exhaust manifolds removal?
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>

11. Re: Exhaust manifolds removal?
From: "mikesdelorean" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>

12. Re: Exhaust manifolds removal?
From: "shainbrannan" <shain_at_dml_elecmods.com>

13. Newbie Intro
From: "checksix3" <checksix3_at_dml_juno.com>

14. Re: free flow exhausts-legality?
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

15. Re: free flow exhausts-legality?
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>

16. Re: chick magnet-NOT (was DeLorean for 17year old)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. RE: Exhaust manifolds removal?
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 03:07:41 -0000
From: "dmcman82" <dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: chick magnet-NOT (was DeLorean for 17year old)

hmmm....I've had a different expierience. My Delorean is still in
pieces and as I was towing it home the first I got my Delorean 4 years
ago...women were screaming out their car windows asking me what kind
of car it was. My wife loves the car (again it's still not in all it's
glory at the moment) and tells everyone of her girl friends about it
and whenever they come over I have to uncover the car for them to look
at it.

I live close by a bike/walk trail and when I have the D uncovered and
working on it I get an assortment of men and women stopping to look at
it all the time...I guess women are different in each state.....gotta
love NY women :). lol

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_b...> wrote:
> > the only people I have attracted so far with my car are other guys
(car
> guys that is) so
> > don't expect a DeLorean to turn you into some kind of Don Juan ;).
> 
> I'll second this.. the car is definitely a guy-magnet.  In the two years
> I've owned my D (excluding the Cleveland show), I can't remember one
woman
> who was the least bit interested in the car.  A few know about it,
but the
> rest could not care less. Their boyfriends and husbands on the other
> hand....countless.
> 
> I was recently dating a woman (a smart doctor, no less) who did not even
> know about the car (which is bad enough), but she kept calling it my
> "Lamborghini".   She's now history.
> 
> -Hank




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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 22:12:31 -0500
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>
Subject: Re: free flow exhausts-legality?

[Moderatoir Note: It's okay to discuss what's legal and what's illegal, but it's NOT okay to discuss "How to do illegal modifications."  - Mike Substelny, DML moderating team]

free flow exhaust is legal as long as it isn't too loud. "open exhaust" is illegal. i have borla exhaust on my mustang and that is free flow exhaust. it will pass emissions as long as your converter is still connected to your car but they will never know if you take the converter off the car after emmissions... he he he.


mark

nbrommer2k wrote:

> What is the legality of such a free-flow exhaust in the US? And what
> kind of repercussions would such a system have on emissions tests?

[moderator snip]



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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 01:12:26 -0400
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>
Subject: Freak Thing? - Almost got knocked out by my passenger door!

I recently replaced my struts on driver and passenger doors.  The other
night, I went to go open the passenger door, and it flew up SO FAST, it
almost clocked me in the jaw!  The door opened so hard/fast that it actually
bounced at the peak of the tortion bar.

Really freaked out, I examined the car for any damage...none to be found.

I then opened and closed the car several times, and the door operated
normally...with a nice gradual pace.  even, and precise.

Should I be concerned?  Is there something I should check?

P.S.  The weather was not abnormal, so I do not think the strut was affected
in any way by that.  It was standard 70 degrees for the past few days.  and
it only happened that ONE time.

Kevin Abato
Vin # 16680




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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 00:41:58 -0600
From: "Ace Underhill" <aceu_at_dml_brilliantscreen.com>
Subject: Great Service!

Last year, I bought a refurbished car from DMC Texas and had it shipped to
me here in Costa Rica. The roads here are pretty bad compared to the US, and
the modified suspension has really helped, but driving it here every day has
shaked some things lose over time.
I made a list of all the little tweakings and adjustments that I wanted and
arranged with DMC to have their master mechanic flown down here for the
repairs. He arrived last week with tools and parts and went to work. He
replaced the radiator fans, installed a sub woofer and amp behind the
drivers seat, did some cosmetic work, tightened lose electrical components,
adjusted the modified engine for better performance at altitude, and did a
door adjustment.

I just want to say thanks to the staff at DMC Texas for being so devoted and
standing behind their great work.

          -Ace Underhill-
Brilliant Screen Entertainment




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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:34:50 +0200
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>
Subject: Exhaust manifolds removal?

I have discovered that the exhaust manifolds, LH and RH side, are very rusty. Now, that  happens to every automobile that I know of. 

But - what worries me is when the time comes and I have to change the gaskets. It looks like the original fasteners of the manifolds (studs?) have rusted to an extent that they will be impossible to remove without screwing up the aluminum block! 

So, what is the fix for this? 

How do you get out the rusted studs/bolts. I can already see that this is going to be a problem, so a fix would be very much appreciated. Then I'll do it right away before it gets any worse! If I have to drill out the old bolts/studs, then that will certainly ruin the threads in the aluminum block, making it impossible to fasten anything...or?

Many thanks,
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759




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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:24:42 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Steering Bushing

I did mine all in one piece - a pair of narrow-nosed pliers stopped the column retracting

Martin
#1458

daveswingle2 wrote:

> Where most people have
> the problem is trying to put the column thru the bushing all in one
> piece, since the column tends to retract into the collapsible part.
>
> Dave Swingle




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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:31:24 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: free flow exhausts-legality?

You need to find out the regulations in your state governing emissions/noise etc.

As to the price in US dollars -

http://www.xe.com/ucc/

Shipping is likely to be about $100-150 but we'll know nearer the time (and would be
cheaper for a number of systems to be ordered at once)

Martin
#1458

nbrommer2k wrote:

> What is the legality of such a free-flow exhaust in the US? And what
> kind of repercussions would such a system have on emissions tests?
>
> One more: What does the cost translate into American Dollars?
>
> Nick




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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 08:11:00 EDT
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: chick magnet-NOT (was DeLorean for 17year old)

In a message dated 05/10/2002 10:20:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net writes:

<< I can't remember one woman
 who was the least bit interested in the car.  >>

I agree Hank...however just like the adage, the clothes don't make the 
man...the man makes the clothes. Same analogy with the DeLorean or any car.

I can remember one woman...there are many owners wives & girlfriends that 
really support the car and their guys. Maybe we should have a show dedicated 
to women & the DeLorean.

The Maryland Fall Social theme is; 
Chicks rule - Knowledge is power, A celebration of DeLorean, Women, and the 
Men who love both!
    
    I was approached by a very attractive, sophisticated, elegant woman 
driving her new Jaguar XK-8. She looked & looked at the car, and complimented 
me for buying a DeLorean. 
    I must say that she (Victoria) knew more about the DeLorean than any 
nonowner I have ever meet before. She went on to say that she read about the 
saga during her college years.

Best Wishes,
Michael Pack



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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 14:43:46 +0100
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: Front springs

So today I finally got around to changing my front springs, after practicing
on Martins car, doing his last week. 3hrs work all in, by myself.  Not too
bad. And the result, the car looks 100% better.

Previous to doing the job I have always thought the car was lower on the
passenger side, and on removal of the non stock shocks on the car I was to
find they were fully adjustable and the passenger side was adjusted further
down, I.e. softer.

All sorted now!!

Cheers
Paul
#6463

www.paul.salsbury.btinternet.co.uk






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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:15:33 -0400
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>
Subject: Re: Exhaust manifolds removal?

Though not a D. owner yet, spending 6 1/2 years in the Army has given me
experience in this area.  Don't flip out just yet as you haven't even begun
trying to repair. Penetrating oil of some kind is the best place to start.
WD40 has a tendency to evaporate, so stay on the lookout for other heavy
duty brands.  Give the oil a chance to do its thing.  Spray or squirt
several times a day and let it sit overnight.  Start with the least damaged
bolt.  (This is where my lack of a D. gets in the way).  Have both metric
and standard wrenches and sockets ready (Allen Keys if that's what's there).
Flake off any rust on the bolt if there is any and check the fitting of the
proper size first.  If it seems a little loose, use the next smallest wrench
WEATHER STANDARD OR METRIC.  ON a relating note, if I had a seized 3/4 bolt,
a 19mm will actually fit much more snuggly.  ALWAYS USE THE BOXED IN SIDE
FIRST (not the open end)!  Apply pressure...SLOWLY.  Do Not Jerk A Wrench On
A Seized Bolt!  You might break off the head on a rusted bolt.  The energy
transfer has to be slow and steady.  You can use a cheater wrench by taking
a wrench of similar or larger size and looping the hole of the extra wrench
over the prong of the worker wrench, giving you better leverage.  Again, not
owning a D., I don't even know if this is even feasible for what you are
currently working on.  This is great information though for rusted out
bolts.  It can be used anywhere.

-Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>; "DOC UK" <doc-uk_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>;
<delorean-nl_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 4:34 AM
Subject: [DML] Exhaust manifolds removal?


> I have discovered that the exhaust manifolds, LH and RH side, are very
> rusty. Now, that  happens to every automobile that I know of.
>
> But - what worries me is when the time comes and I have to change the
> gaskets. It looks like the original fasteners of the manifolds (studs?) have
> rusted to an extent that they will be impossible to remove without screwing
> up the aluminum block!
>
> So, what is the fix for this?
>
> How do you get out the rusted studs/bolts. I can already see that this is
> going to be a problem, so a fix would be very much appreciated. Then I'll do
> it right away before it gets any worse! If I have to drill out the old
> bolts/studs, then that will certainly ruin the threads in the aluminum
> block, making it impossible to fasten anything...or?
>
> Many thanks,
> Stian Birkeland
> Norway
>
> VIN # 06759



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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 14:35:17 -0000
From: "mikesdelorean" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>
Subject: Re: Exhaust manifolds removal?

If you do break the heads off the bolts, its not the end of your 
block or world.  This is what extractor kits are for.  Using one 
corectly will extract the broken bolt without damage to the block.  
Drilling out the hole entirely and rethreading it, thats another 
story......

-Mike

[duplicate quote snipped by moderator]



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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 14:58:07 -0000
From: "shainbrannan" <shain_at_dml_elecmods.com>
Subject: Re: Exhaust manifolds removal?

I recently had to do this to my car right after i got it.  There is 
onyl one real way to do this.  Soak the bolts and studs with a good 
rust eater.  Do this for about 2 nights or so, then you have to use 
an acetyline torch to remove the bolts.  I did this and still had 
one break that i had to have removed.  The problem is the aluminum,  
inside the head/block the metal oxidizes, and starts to eat away the 
bolts a little, the real proble is that the oxidation binds when 
removing studs,bolts, etc, and then they usualy break.If you can get 
the manifolds off i would either replace all the studs, bolts etc, 
or reuse the studs , chance them with a chacer and use new nuts and 
washers.  Grady sells a whole kit i believe.  I left my studs in 
because I was too scared to try and remove them.

- Shain

[snipped again]



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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:28:55 -0000
From: "checksix3" <checksix3_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Newbie Intro

Hello Folks,

I'm new here and just bought an automatic 81 with 15K miles on it. I 
have had the car a week and resolved lots of problems on it, mainly 
electrical issues (I have battled Lucas, The Prince Of Darkness, many 
times in the past) and fuel leaks at the sending unit and fuel pump 
boot. I have tried to do extensive research on the Web so as not to 
pester you all with simple questions, but I have a few. Btw, I do all 
work on the car myself.

A little about me: Northern California, commercial pilot and 
industrial maintenance engineer. My other money pits include 
a Toyota Turbo Supra, motorcycle and Cessna 177RG. Since I'm new 
here I will try to keep my ears open and mouth shut but I'll 
point out that I'm also an electrical/electronics, industrial 
automation machine design and materials engineer, machinist, 
certified auto A/C tech and aircraft mechanic, among a few other 
things. (Not boasting, just pointing out you can talk technical to me 
in several disciplines without dumbing it down.) 

While my actual experience with this car is limited, after 7 days of 
inspecting and studying it I feel I understand the car's system's 
fairly well at this point, especially the electrical portions of it. 
(I"ll withold my opinion on the electrical design for now :-) 

I do have a few questions: 1) The squeaking when turning the 
steering, is that the bushing or is there a way to otherwise resolve 
it? 2) Amoung those well known I've found, any parts suppliers I 
*should not* deal with? Recommendations of those I should? 3) Where 
can I get a decent, readable electrical schematic? 4) My car has a 
case of "bump steer", any comments about resolving that? 

5) The car's idle hunts (750 to 1200 rpm) when cold but smooths out 
when warm. (I read somewhere this is normal but can't find that 
reference again.) The constant idle system (stepping valve, switch, 
thermistor, ect)checks out fine. I understand there is fixed 
pulse "mapping" to the freq valve when cold? (I say mapping because 
the intelligent ECU in my Supra runs in open loop when cold.) Its my 
understanding the DeLorean has no such microprocessor ECU smarts? The 
Bosch ECU is analog?

The car seems in decent shape now, what specifics peculiar to 
these cars should I be worried about at 15K miles? I've replaced the 
fuel pump and belts, the brakes are OK, the cooling hoses are 
original as is the stock cooling bottle. Cooling fan and tempstat are 
OK, heater blower is noisy. I've leaked checked and charged the A/C, 
temps are now good but it seems to have low airflow even with blower 
on high speed. Blower speed resistor and A/C mode switching and 
vacuum actuators check out ok. Maybe a external leak somewhere in the 
heater core/evap box?

Lastly, my transmission govener computer is acting up. Any other EE 
types out there who have modified this thing for better reliability?
Any comments on its removal?

I'd like to offer an alternative to the Fram drain valve. For years I 
have used this product: http://www.fumotovalve.com It is a high 
quality valve but I don't know if one would work well on our cars due 
to the location of the drain. Does anyone know the drain plug thread 
specs on the car? As for accidental openings, fwiw, such valves are 
used on aircraft all the time without any problems.

My apologies for the long post and thanks for any input. I value the 
expertise of the members here and hope to have a rewarding experience 
driving and maintaining this vehicle. 

Gary




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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 17:02:43 EDT
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: free flow exhausts-legality?


    I am having a hell of a time trying to import my Renault Alpine PRV V-6. 
It is sitting in a customs warehouse in Baltimore for almost a year.
     The big issue with the Fed., is the non catalytic exhaust. The lights 
and bumpers are a small item on the long list of conversions.
        In addition, the DMC sounds better without the catalytic converter, 
however the HP and performance gain is minimal...in my opinion.

Best Wishes,
Michael Pack



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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:21:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>
Subject: Re: free flow exhausts-legality?

On Fri, 10 May 2002, nbrommer2k wrote:

> What is the legality of such a free-flow exhaust in the US? And what 
> kind of repercussions would such a system have on emissions tests?

It depends on how free-flow it is. :} Generally, federal law prohibits
tampering with the emissions control system.  However this federal law
really only applies to companies, they do not care about what individuals
do.  For your own personal use, state laws are what is relevant.

In general, "cat-back" exhaust, that does not touch anything from the
exhaust manifold to the catalytic converter, is legal.  This is enough to
pick up a small amount of power and change the exhaust note, if you don't
like it.  This is not considered part of the emissions system.

Removing or hollowing out the catalytic converter is not legal.  If you
happen to live in an emission-controlled area, you will never pass
emissions.  If you don't live in an emission-controlled area, it's still
illegal, but no one will really care as long as the result isn't too
loud.

It is possible to replace the catalytic converters with modern,
aftermarket high-flow models.  A modern performance cat is almost as open
as no cat at all.  This will require a little bit of engineering savvy to
size them properly, but nothing exceptional.  This is technically legal
only if your current cat has failed.  (If your car is high mileage, it's
probably plugged up already).  Aftermarket cats do not tend to last for
more than a few years.

Headers (in the American sense of tubes that flow directly from the engine
exhaust ports, not the British sense which means exhaust manifold) are
generally not legal, however whether anyone cares is another matter.  
States that do not perform visual inspections in their emissions tests are
not likely to care, states that do perform them probably will care.  It
*is* possible to combine headers with an aftermarket cat and get good
performance.  Of course, headers have no impact on actual emissions
whatsoever, provided that a proper cat is in place.  They have a large
impact on noise, which might make your exhaust illegal on that count.

If you live in California, any aftermarket emissions-related parts must be
CARB-certified to be legal.  This includes the air intake, for some
reason, modification of air intakes is legal in some states and not
others.

> One more: What does the cost translate into American Dollars?

Probably 500 to 3000 dollars depending on how much you do and quality.




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Message: 16
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 16:07:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: chick magnet-NOT (was DeLorean for 17year old)

And yet more women and D's.  

I was in a parking lot in Reno recently when a
"middle-aged" woman (I'm beeing politically correct
here) pulled in next to me in her 300ZX.  She said she
had had FIVE Z's since the 240 first came out.  BUT, 
she said she sure wished she had gotten a D instead. 
She said, "It's STILL the best looking car on the
road."

Who says somen don't understand cars?

Dick Ryan



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Message: 17
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 19:34:42 -0500
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Exhaust manifolds removal?

Stian

There really isn't a fix for this problem.  About the best you can do
is to periodically soak the studs with a penetrating oil like Kroil,
WD-40, or Liquid Wrench.  Really douse them down and tap them with
a wrench or screwdriver.  This will help loosen up the rust between
the nuts and the studs.  The vibrations from the tapping will help
the oil penetrate better.  Don't start this until a few weeks before
you are ready to remove the manifolds.  Otherwise, you run the risk
of loosening the stud and having it work it's way out of the block.

If you happen to break a stud and there is something left to grip,
I have had success heating the area around the stud with a small
propane torch for about a minute or so.  This gets the block to
expand a little.  Once heated, spray the stud with some WD-40.
This cools the stud a little in relation to the block.  Then
grab the stud with a pair of vicegrips and turn it out.

When you put it all back together, I would recommend using stainless
studs, copperized split-ring nuts and Cop-a-Slip antisieze compound.
Even if you never take the manifolds off again while you own the
car, the next owner will really appreciate that you did.

Mike

[snipped]



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