From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1023
Date: Monday, May 13, 2002 7:57 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Exhaust manifolds removal?
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

2. rim upgrades
From: "mikesdelorean" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>

3. Re: Newbie Intro (wiring diagram)
From: Trevor Johnson <comet4055_at_dml_juno.com>

4. Re: free flow exhausts-legality?
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

5. Timing on an Island Twin
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

6. Re: free flow exhausts-legality?
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

7. Looking for custom wheels
From: "evm2k" <evm2k_at_dml_yahoo.com>

8. RE: Newbie Intro
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_att.net>

9. Re: exhaust manifold removal / chick or Chuck
From: Farrar Hudkins <fhudkins_at_dml_uno.edu>

10. Re: Exhaust manifolds removal?
From: "shainbrannan" <shain_at_dml_elecmods.com>

11. Delorean witrh 483 miles turned out to be a bust!!!
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>

12. RE: chick magnet-NOT (was DeLorean for 17year old)
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

13. Re: free flow exhausts-legality?
From: "theshovel1224" <theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com>

14. Exhaust manifolds gasket removal techniques & gasket installation process
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

15. Re: Newbie Intro
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

16. Fan Fail Light Without Actual Fan Fail
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

17. Re: free flow exhausts-legality?
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>

18. Re: rim upgrades
From: "tp8534" <mpolans_at_dml_creeper.com>

19. Re: Delorean witrh 483 miles turned out to be a bust!!!
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

20. RE: foam gasket on blower
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

21. Fan Fail Bypass Fix Alternative
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

22. Re: foam gasket on blower
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

23. Re: Re: Exhaust manifolds removal? Are you stupid?
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>

24. Selling Delorean Ashtray (from car :) on ebay
From: "Fen2k" <fen2k_at_dml_yahoo.com>

25. Re: Delorean witrh 483 miles turned out to be a bust!!!
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 03:11:10 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Exhaust manifolds removal?

With all of my experience working on exhaust systems and parts the 
best advice I can offer is that the most success I have had is not 
with any liquids or sprays. The only thing that works most of the time 
 is the good old "smoke wrench" otherwise known as an acetylene torch. 
Even with that I have broken studs and bolts, stripped threads, burnt 
parts and fingers. You just have to consider Murphy's Law, "If it 
sticks force it, if it breaks it needed replacing anyway!" In general 
when you do exhaust work it is like working on old plumbing, you never 
know how much you have to replace until you get it all out! If you can 
get the nuts off the studs without damaging them (the studs) then 
there is no need to remove the studs. When reassembling use plenty of 
Never-Seize. Think of the next guy, it might be YOU!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> Stian
> 
> There really isn't a fix for this problem.  About the best you can 
do
> is to periodically soak the studs with a penetrating oil like Kroil,
> WD-40, or Liquid Wrench.  Really douse them down and tap them with
> a wrench or screwdriver.  This will help loosen up the rust between
> the nuts and the studs.  The vibrations from the tapping will help
> the oil penetrate better.  Don't start this until a few weeks before
> you are ready to remove the manifolds.  Otherwise, you run the risk
> of loosening the stud and having it work it's way out of the block.
> 
> If you happen to break a stud and there is something left to grip,
> I have had success heating the area around the stud with a small
> propane torch for about a minute or so.  This gets the block to
> expand a little.  Once heated, spray the stud with some WD-40.
> This cools the stud a little in relation to the block.  Then
> grab the stud with a pair of vicegrips and turn it out.
> 
> When you put it all back together, I would recommend using stainless
> studs, copperized split-ring nuts and Cop-a-Slip antisieze compound.
> Even if you never take the manifolds off again while you own the
> car, the next owner will really appreciate that you did.
> 
> Mike
> 
[snipped]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 03:31:36 -0000
From: "mikesdelorean" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>
Subject: rim upgrades

It's good to see that DMC Texas sees the good in making upgrades in 
performance and durability as well as saftey.  This should make John 
Z. proud to see his car get improvements with the times.  My question 
leans towards preformance.  I have seen people use 15/16 inch and 
even 16/17 inch rims on their delorean.  Can tires be used to keep 
the original geometry of the overall circumferance?  This would 
result in a smaller side wall and I want to know if this actually 
improves overall handling of the car.  If this does impove the 
overall handling, has there been or will there ever be rims of the 
original design made in these sizes?  It would seem like the next 
logical step.  I truely believe that the original rim design looks 
best and no other aftermarket look comes close to looking better.  
Have these or will these ever been created, or am I just living in a 
dream world?

-Mike




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 21:16:40 -0700
From: Trevor Johnson <comet4055_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie Intro (wiring diagram)

I have mentioned this several times in the past, but it bears repeating.
The DeLorean Store (www.deloreanstore.com) sells a Poster that is the
wiring diagram for the 1981 DeLorean. 

"Printed on 22 inch x 34 inch poster paper with separate 11 inch x 17
inch Location Index and Symbol Key"
It is 15$ plus S&H. (10% discount if you are a DOA member and order off
the website) It is very high quality and very easy to read, even if you
are not an electrical engeneer.


Talk to you later!

Trevor Johnson
comet4055_at_dml_juno.com
aim-dmcboy1der

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 05:32:25 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: free flow exhausts-legality?

If nothing else, I suppose that you could modify a DeLorean 
exhaust system to fit onto the car. :-) It shouldn't be too hard to 
obtain/modify directional lenses. As for the bumpers, I'm sure 
that there's a way to get around those. Otherwise, maybe it 
would have been easier entering the car in thru Canada, and/or 
an importing company? But once you get the car back into your 
possesion, just swap everything back. See what you can do to 
keep it as a classic car, and off the road at that to avoid 
emissions testing. If you don't plan on driving it anyways, insure 
it as a classic, and register it as non-operational with the DMV.

As for exhaust, I prefer to have mine as silent as possible. i don't 
like people to hear me headed their way. It makes it easier to 
pass them at stoplights. If they can't hear me, they usualy don't 
see me, and that makes for a easier advantage to get ahead of 
them when the road narrows ahead. Or if nothing else, it most of 
the time keeps people from getting the urge to race me. Which is 
another nice "perk" of having a rear-engined car. The motor is far 
back enough most people can't tell I'm next to them until I get 
ahead of them.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Senatorpack_at_dml_c... wrote:
> 
>     I am having a hell of a time trying to import my Renault 
Alpine PRV V-6. 
> It is sitting in a customs warehouse in Baltimore for almost a 
year.
>      The big issue with the Fed., is the non catalytic exhaust. The 
lights 
> and bumpers are a small item on the long list of conversions.
>         In addition, the DMC sounds better without the catalytic 
converter, 
> however the HP and performance gain is minimal...in my 
opinion.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> Michael Pack




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:49:55 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Timing on an Island Twin

Hi all

#2727's up and running but the needs tuning. It has the older style (no
cats) twin turbo. It has been fully serviced, had a new rotor arm and
cap, new water pump etc etc.

Is there any general advice about setting the engine up specifically
what might fall outside the standard practices for the engine. In
particular the timing needs setting.

Thanks

Martin
#1458




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:49:59 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: free flow exhausts-legality?

With reference to the system we in the DOC UK are having made:

1) The main problem with the stock system is that the piping is rigged to get the exhaust
through the cat. Remove the cat, and why bother with all the rest of the crazy pipework.
Our system will replace the manifolds and feed them directly (no cat) into the back box,
which will look exactly like the stock one except for having a inlet on both sides. I
personally do not intend removing the lambda system.

2) The "noisiness" is up to you - these are made to order and you can specify as quiet or
loud as you like.

3) The lack of cat is bothering you guys a bit. Remember the first generation Island Twin
Turbo and the BAE turbo systems got rid of the cat.

4) The cost is around $1200 + shipping.

Martin
#1458

William T Wilson wrote:

> On Fri, 10 May 2002, nbrommer2k wrote:
>
> > What is the legality of such a free-flow exhaust in the US? And what
> > kind of repercussions would such a system have on emissions tests?




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 11:41:25 -0000
From: "evm2k" <evm2k_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Looking for custom wheels

I'm looking for custom wheels for my Delorean but the local shops 
don't know where to look for a listing.  I've been to William Kay 
Wheels website but he doesn't seem to be in business anymore.  Does 
anyone know where I can locate a relatively good selection of 
wheels?  If the wheels have to be custom made, what dimensions should 
I use?

Also, where can I get a spare tire?

Richard
Danville, California




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 07:14:46 -0500
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: RE: Newbie Intro

Welcome to the group Gary.

Electrical schematics:
Bob Zilla was selling a revised/updated schematic with the profits going to
a charity.
Perhaps Bob can speak up and fill you in on the details.

The DeLorean Owners Association, D.O.A., also has a schematic available.
http://www.delorean-owners.org/

Parts are available from several vendors, and each give competent advice and
help. If I missed some, I'm sorry.

Steve Wynne (DeLorean Motor Company) http://www.delorean.net/
Rob Grady http://www.pjgrady.com/
John Hervey http://www.specialtauto.com/
DeLorean Services (DMC JOE)
http://shopping.oraclesmallbusiness.com/store/store.nl?store=ACCT4947&mode=w
elcomežion=1
Darryl Tinnerstet http://www.delorean-parts.com/
Vendors List from DMCNEWS site  http://www.dmcnews.com/links.html

Since you are in Northern California, contact Ken Montgomery
http://www.ncdmc.org/ .  This group is near you.

I would replace the stock cooling bottle with the SS ones that are
available.  Keep the original for competition.  When I took my car out of
storage, I cleaned every electrical connection that I could find.  Don't
forget to clean the grounds.  They cause a lot of the problems.

Purchase the manuals that are available.  Also, the DOA sells a set of the
back issues of the DeLorean World magazine.  They are kind of pricey, but do
have a lot of valuable tech features.

My $0.02 worth.

Scott Mueller
002981
scott.a.mueller (at) att.net

-----Original Message-----
From: checksix3 [mailto:checksix3_at_dml_juno.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 1:29 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Newbie Intro


> Hello Folks,

> I'm new here and just bought an automatic 81 with
> 15K miles on it. I have had the car a week and
> resolved lots of problems on it, mainly electrical
> issues (I have battled Lucas, The Prince Of Darkness,
> many times in the past) and fuel leaks at the sending
> unit and fuel pump boot. I have tried to do extensive
> research on the Web so as not to pester you all with
> simple questions, but I have a few. Btw, I do all
> work on the car myself.

[very long quote trimmed by moderator]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 07:28:27 -0500
From: Farrar Hudkins <fhudkins_at_dml_uno.edu>
Subject: Re: exhaust manifold removal / chick or Chuck

Stian, when  had the same question last year, my mechanic said that in a
case like that, he would "use heat, but carefully and not too rapidly."
But now that I think back, I can't remember exactly where he said the
heat would be applied. If the water displacers and penetrating oils and
tapping don't work, I would consider the "carefully and not too rapidly"
option, and of course ask your mechanic. If you don't trust yourself
with an acetylene torch, I would seek help. There's no shame in it. :)
Good luck, Daddy-O.

And for you "Chick Magnet vs. Chuck Magnet" guys, the girl I met most
recently agrees the DeLorean would be a cool car to own, after she buys
her "Boss 429 Mustang." The other women I know can't understand my
obsession with DeLoreans, but then again I can't understand their
obsession with television dramas. Then again, the guys I know can't
understand my obsession with DeLoreans, but I can't dig hockey like they
can. I guess you can't have everything. Sure, I'm single, but I expect
to be single after I get the DeLorean -- perhaps more so. My view is, if
you like the car, drive the car. If you want to impress women, talk to
them. (But not about the car. ;)

Thus ends my $0.02.

Farrar Hudkins
New Orleans, LA
'98 Ranger XLT "Laggy"
--
www.wwno.org
504-280-7000



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 13:50:33 -0000
From: "shainbrannan" <shain_at_dml_elecmods.com>
Subject: Re: Exhaust manifolds removal?

From what i was told by my metal working guy that has helped me with 
the car,  you do not want to use stainless steel studs, bolts, etc 
with aulmnium.  When the two are combined a chemical reaction takes 
place, and the block with start to oxidize very quickly,  fusing the 
stud, bolt etc in the block.  This is why I believe Grady uses 
standard bolts that have been plated instead of SS ones for the 
engine.  I do heavly agree with the anti sieze ;)

- Shain
#10140

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> Stian
> 
> There really isn't a fix for this problem.  About the best you can 
> do is to periodically soak the studs with a penetrating oil like 
> Kroil, WD-40, or Liquid Wrench.

[duplicate quote snipped by moderator]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:14:39 -0000
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Delorean witrh 483 miles turned out to be a bust!!!

i just returned from a 1300 miles roundtrip drive from NY to 
VA...very dissapointed...not because of the waste of time but because 
the car really did have the 483 miles, but...because it was a shame 
the car was neglect4ed so much ...in truth the frame was completely 
straight rust free and flawless the stainbless was also perfect with 
the exception of a very minor very fixable little ding on the drivers 
fender...so far so good....it even came with the owners manual and 
original bill of sale for $20500.....it even had the original 
NCTs...the bad news .....all the rubber was dry rotted, the front and 
rear fascias were warped from i guess geat or something, they didnt 
conform well to the fenders/quarter panels...the interior was 
excellent but the seats were dry....the fuel distributor was 
removed...and possibly tinkered with....and there was somewhat of an 
oil leaked around the oil pan... and the stainless on the roof didnt 
line up too well with the doors although it was adjustable...and 
ofcourse the door hydraulics were not really holding up too good...my 
best estimation to make this thing pristine was about 8-
9000...bringing the car up to $24,000 i did make an offer of 13G... 
but the idiot didnt want to hear it....unfortunate and sad i would 
have loved to restore this one....what do you guys think??? was i 
right to pass it up??....and does anyone have a low up to 3500 mile 
or so car for sale??? thanx guys




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 09:45:04 -0500
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: chick magnet-NOT (was DeLorean for 17year old)

>And yet more women and D's.

Until last night I would have agreed with the first statement-- that the D
draws the guys in. But filling up last night (after seeing Spiderman and
cruising rural highways for an hour with the wife) it was two women who
struck up a conversation with me about the car while a couple of guys peered
around the pumps admiring the car silently. My wife was tickled and not too
too-jealous. :)




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 15:29:30 -0000
From: "theshovel1224" <theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: free flow exhausts-legality?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the PRV6, if tuned properly,
pass emissions even without a catalytic converter?

John Yeoman


> Removing or hollowing out the catalytic converter is not legal.  If
you
> happen to live in an emission-controlled area, you will never pass
> emissions.  If you don't live in an emission-controlled area, it's
still
> illegal, but no one will really care as long as the result isn't too
> loud.





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 12:15:34 EDT
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Exhaust manifolds gasket removal techniques & gasket installation process


    This is a difficult procedure. If you feel that this repair is over and 
beyond you capabilities, make an appointment with your specialists. Do not 
attempt this without the correct tools and replacements parts.

    Lift the DeLorean and remove the rear tires. If you are not able to 
utilize a lift, back your DeLorean up onto good quality ramps. Chock the 
front wheels and apply parking brake.  Either with the car in the air, or 
with the rear tires on ramps, this will give you room to work at eye level. 

    I recommend disconnecting the battery and removing the starter and the 
alternator on the right side to give you plenty of working room.

    On the left of the car, to gain adequate access (my hands & arms are big) 
remove the muffler and if you still do not have room, you could have to 
remove catalytic convertor. On the left side of the engine, the 11 mm nuts & 
studs are hard to reach with the catalytic convertor attached.

    Soak the exhaust manifolds in LIQUID WRENCH. By far this is one of the 
best rust eaters and penetrating oils in spray form. The trick is to keep 
spraying liberally on the nuts & stud WHILE your are removing. When you feel 
the stud or nut tighten and start to get stiff, STOP. Spray the area again 
and TIGHTEN the stud or bolt slightly to get the Liquid Wrench into the 
engine block threads. (This works well for water pump bolt removal too) Then 
proceed again to remove the stud or bolt. (DO NOT BREATHE THE FUMES FROM THE 
SPRAY) 

    Keep this slow and steady process until the studs are removed. In some 
cases the nut rusts so bad that it "welds" itself to the stud. If you are 
lucky the nut & stud will come out together. (Dont worry if the stud breaks 
off, you will have room to remove it later when the entire manifold is off)
    
    IF the stud remains in the block & the nut was removed, AFTER removing 
the entire left or right manifold, spray the studs again and using a pair of 
vise grips or channel locks, GENTLY lock them onto the middle of the stud and 
loosen. The stud will come out, just work slowly and with adequate space, 
spraying the stud with liquid wrench. 
    
    When you have all of the studs and hardware removed clean the old gasket 
material that has rotted off with a small brush. You must inspect the 
manifolds for warpage. You should take them to a machine shop and have them 
leveled off to give the manifold a true, even, flat, surface to the gasket 
and block.

    An optional step is to FED/Ex the manifolds to JETHOT ceramic coatings 
INC.

http://www.jet-hot.com/

    The coating is applied inside and outside of the manifold.  It really 
reduces the engine compartment temp, and improving the aesthetic appearance 
of the engine compartment & manifolds. If you have the JETHOT ceramic coating 
applied, make sure that the manifolds are level BEFORE sending them off. The 
cost to clean and apply the ceramic coating from JETHOT for the DeLorean 
exhaust manifolds in 1998 was $240.00.

    Purchase one of the manifold kits from a DeLorean vendor. I installed the 
entire PJ Grady kit on my 1981...very simple and easy to install. PJ Grady 
includes brass hardware replacements in the exhaust manifold kit. The gasket 
that they sell is a one piece item, which is thicker than the Volvo or 
Renault OEM parts.

    I recommend cleaning out the rust in the exhaust manifolds with a tap & 
die. This will give you a better area to attach the 4 studs that secure the 
manifold to the crossover pipe. Apply some anti-seize compound to the studs 
that secure the cross over pipe.
    
    When installing new studs into the block, apply a small amount of 
anti-seize compound to the tip that is inserted into the block. After 
installing the studs into the block, holding the manifold in place, attach 
the nut that secures the manifold to the stud & apply a small amount of 
lock-tight to the nut & stud. Be careful not to over torque the new studs and 
nuts. Use a good quality torque wrench.

    Finish up the process for both sides of the manifolds, and reattach the 
remaining hardware and parts that you needed to remove during the process.

    I cannot emphasize enough checking the manifolds for trueness and level. 
If your manifolds are warped have them machined down and leveled off. 
Installing warped manifolds without machining & leveling, you will have the 
same exhaust leak after all of your effort and labor.

    
Best Wishes,
Michael Pack



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:06:04 EDT
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Newbie Intro

In a message dated 5/11/02 10:28:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
checksix3_at_dml_juno.com writes:

<< it seems to have low airflow even with blower 
 on high speed. >>

Check for a relatively large foam sealing gasket (about 1/2" thick and maybe 
2." by 4") at the back of the heater/blower housing under the pass side dash. 
It is not visable, and you can reach it with your hand while on your back in 
the footwell. You do not need to remove anything to check and or reseal. 
Evidence of it's possibly dislodged condition would be air flow from the 
blower motor being felt way up there between the heater/blower housing and 
the firewall near the hump. Don't mistake legitimate footwell air flow with a 
leak. The gasket is a simple press fit and with age, my foam shrunk and or 
lost some of it's ability to stay put over the years. You can reposition the 
gasket and seal it with your choice of latex or silicone, but to place the 
sealant, you've got to load a gob on you fingers, and place it on the seam 
then spread to seal and hold. All by feel alone...


>>the cooling hoses are 
>>original as is the stock cooling bottle.

If you're an A&P, then you'll know a good hose when you see it. The cooling 
bottles are known to deteriorate when exposed to sunlight. The plastic begins 
to craze and crack, generally at the rear of the tank first where sunlight 
can get through the louvers. If you can dig your finger nail into the plastic 
it's definetely time for another. You can go high tech and order a stainless 
steel bottle, in which case you won't be able to visually monitor the coolant 
level, or you can visit the scrap yard and get one off of a BMW that has been 
kept out of the sun (hood closed). Mine was $15.00 .Not the same mounts, but 
higher quality plastic, with all required plumbing connections, and ability 
to support a low coolant level sensor/warning. Major diff other than 
orientation on some of the fittings is the D uses a 1 1/4" fitting on the 
coolant tube feeding the bottle, the BMW uses 1". Easy to accomodate.

Jim 6147



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:27:45 EDT
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Fan Fail Light Without Actual Fan Fail

I know I could probably just go with one of the fan fail fixes out there but 
I'd like to understand a little more about what's actually happening. 
Originally I had a fan fail indication when the spade connectors on the two 
circuit breakers would heat up and sometimes trip the breaker. Those 
connections are now fixed for good. No appreciable heat build up, resistance, 
or current draw.

I have good fans which run quietly and reliably, and also installed a 100 amp 
alternator. At idle with the air on and the fans running I get no fan fail 
light except of course when they initially trip on and cycle with the 
compressor.  Dash volt meter at idle, with air on and both fans running shows 
about 12.5 volts. But when I go above idle, I've got about 13.5 volts 
available, and as soon as the voltage goes up I get a fan fail light, while 
both fans continue to happily chug along. Is the fan fail module too 
sensitive to the extra current available above idle at 13.5 volts? 

What do the commercial fan fixes do to fix this?

Jim 6147



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 19:58:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>
Subject: Re: free flow exhausts-legality?

On Sun, 12 May 2002, theshovel1224 wrote:

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the PRV6, if tuned properly,
> pass emissions even without a catalytic converter?

You *might*.  It depends on the test and the tuning.  

There are three kinds of emissions test - the visual test, the idle test
and the dyno test (where they put the car on rollers).  What exactly
you're up against depends on where you are and, in some states, the year
of the car.  In Colorado, for instance, 1981 model years and earlier get
the much less fussy idle test, whereas 1982 and newer get the dyno+visual
test.

Passing the visual test depends on the competence of the inspector.  If
the inspector can't find where the cat is supposed to be, or doesn't have
the DeLorean in his computer - both of which are quite possible - he'll
just give you a pass on the visual test.  However if he does manage to do
his job correctly, you will not pass if you don't have some sort of cat.  
Not all areas have a visual test.

You *might* pass an idle test without a catalytic converter.  The PRV is a
very clean engine.  Some states do not test for NOx in their idle test,
only hydrocarbons.  You could pass such a test with a lean mixture and
possibly using oxygenated fuel.  Even if they do test for NOx, they might
have very relaxed standards for older cars.  It could work out - I
probably wouldn't bother and would just get a high flow cat.  Or a turbo
kit. :}

There is no way you will pass a dyno test without a cat.  It's hopeless.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 01:47:03 -0000
From: "tp8534" <mpolans_at_dml_creeper.com>
Subject: Re: rim upgrades

Mike,
     I have had this question posed to me a number of times.  I have a
+2 (16" f/17" r) setup on my DeLorean.  We matched the tires to the
wheels such that the stock diameter remained virtually identical.  The
fronts were perfect and the rears differed by a few hundredths of an
inch.  The footprint of these wheels is slightly bigger.  Also, the
sidwall is much shorter and stiffer.  I've found the car to be more
responsive when driven hard.  If you are going to be in Memphis, come
see me and check it out for yourself.

Matthew
VIN #16816
VIN #10365

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "mikesdelorean" <mike_at_dml_n...> wrote:
> It's good to see that DMC Texas sees the good in making upgrades in 
> performance and durability as well as saftey.  This should make John 
> Z. proud to see his car get improvements with the times.  My question 
> leans towards preformance.  I have seen people use 15/16 inch and 
> even 16/17 inch rims on their delorean.  Can tires be used to keep 
> the original geometry of the overall circumferance?  This would 
> result in a smaller side wall and I want to know if this actually 
> improves overall handling of the car.  If this does impove the 
> overall handling, has there been or will there ever be rims of the 
> original design made in these sizes?  It would seem like the next 
> logical step.  I truely believe that the original rim design looks 
> best and no other aftermarket look comes close to looking better.  
> Have these or will these ever been created, or am I just living in a 
> dream world?
> 
> -Mike




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 22:39:19 EDT
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Delorean witrh 483 miles turned out to be a bust!!!

There's not much difference in my mind between 483 miles and say 15k if the 
car has sat neglected for 10 or so years.  Mine was a lot nicer than what you 
describe and I didn't pay 13K for it. But did put in over 4K so far and still 
doing all the work myself. I think you did the right thing. I think the 
seller was an idiot for not taking your 13K offer. You can probably find a D 
with 15-20K miles in the same condition for around 10K if you move quickly.
Jim 6147



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 21:45:07 -0500
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: foam gasket on blower

>Check for a relatively large foam sealing gasket (about 1/2" thick and
maybe
>2." by 4") at the back of the heater/blower housing under the pass side
dash.

hmmm... this could be where the foam that blew out of my vents came from...




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 23:10:39 EDT
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Fan Fail Bypass Fix Alternative

Here's a simple Fan Fail Module fix to make the Fan Fail Light come on only 
when either the cooling fan curcuit breaker thermal trip has opened, or the 
Cooling Fan Relay has failed. It will only illuminate the light if the fans 
are supposed to be running and are not getting voltage.  Some of the simple 
fixes like the early bypass, and the thing with 2 fuses that you see one of 
the vendors selling, make the Fan Fail light come on and stay on everytime 
the fans are supposed to be running. This is backwards. You get to watch it 
turn on and off. One suggestion I saw was to put tape over the "FAIL" portion 
of the panel. 

I've put a hand drawn schematic of the before and after socket wiring in the 
photo section under "Techie Stuff" so you can see what you have to do.
Anyway, if you rewire the existing Fan Fail Module socket you can replace it 
with a standard accessory relay just like the cooling fan relay. I used a 
Borg Warner R682.

As usual disconnect the battery.
Open up the relay compartment. 
Locate the first row of relays. Thats the row closest to you as you face the 
rear of the car and look down into the relay compartment. 
Remove the Fan Fail Module (Big Blue module if it's still in there. It's the 
first one on the passenger  side)
Remove the Low Beam Relay (First relay on the drivers side)
Remove the Cooling Fan Relay (Second on the passenger side next to the old 
Fan Fail Module)
You can now remove the two screws holding the relay socket assy to the metal 
tray.
You can now lift the socket assy up and slide the Fan Fail Relay socket off 
of the remaining sockets in order to perform the rewire per the schematic.

I would recommend soldering all connections, insulating bare wires and 
generally doing this in a professional manner. Introducing 15amp fuses in the 
black/green wires to the fans is optional in my mind but not a bad idea. You 
can use all the existing socket connectors simply by cutting the existing 
wires about an inch from the socket connectors, and neatly soldering your new 
connections to the remaining wire stubs.

This mod works by using a standard accessory relay in the old Fan Fail Module 
socket. The normally closed pins of the new relay (30/51 and 87A) are held 
open any time the cooling fan relay is supposed to be energized and there is 
voltage going to the fans. If the cooling fan relay is being told to energize 
and kick on the fans, but there is no voltage to the fans, then the light 
will come on. In which case you have either a circuit breaker thermal trip, 
cooling fan relay failure, or other wiring problems. It will not signal you 
if you pop the optional 15amp fuses but with the stock circuit breaker I'm 
not sure you really need them anyway. (Also removing the spade connectors 
going to both circuit breakers and soldering the wires directly is a really 
good idea.)

Resecure the relay socket assy and reinstall the relays you removed plus 
install the new one. All are the same, and the old fail module is no longer 
required. You can test by starting the car and running the air with the 
cooling fan relay removed. You should have a fan fail light.

I've already installed this and so far it seems ok. Let me know what you guys 
think. 
Jim 6147



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 23:15:47 EDT
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: foam gasket on blower

In a message dated 5/12/02 10:56:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com writes:


<< >Check for a relatively large foam sealing gasket (about 1/2" thick and
 maybe
 >2." by 4") at the back of the heater/blower housing under the pass side
 dash.
 
 hmmm... this could be where the foam that blew out of my vents came from...
 
  >>
OHHHH NOOOOO!
Does your blower motor still work......
Or should  we refer to it as a blender from now on?
Jim



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 23:44:07 -0400
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Exhaust manifolds removal? Are you stupid?

The whole point in using penetrants WITH a torch is to save the HASSLE of
broken bolts.  For goodness sakes, if the nuts are rusted, REPLACE THEM!  If
the studs are rusted, REPLACE THEM!  Use stainless steel studs and nuts like
the other gentleman said as well as the anti-seize compound.  A little
tapping to loosen the rust with the penetrant is a great idea, especialy if
there is room for someone to tap while you are turning.  Heating the whole
area and cooling the bolt or stud in also excelent.  I hate to sound like a
pessimest earlier, but variety is the key.  Using several tecniques to solve
any problem is better than one.  The more tecniques in your arsenal, the
more heartache you will save yourself.

-Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:11 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: Exhaust manifolds removal?


> With all of my experience working on exhaust systems and parts the
> best advice I can offer is that the most success I have had is not
> with any liquids or sprays. 

[moderator snipped...]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 04:51:52 -0000
From: "Fen2k" <fen2k_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Selling Delorean Ashtray (from car :) on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1731127895

give it a look if intrested :)

-Cliff





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 25
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:42:21 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Delorean witrh 483 miles turned out to be a bust!!!

This sounds in a worse state than mine which I picked up for $7500 with 
*no* tinkering in the engine bay, almost perfect body (a similar 
one-dinger :-), the same damaged interior, strait fascias but in need of 
paint (badly) and 2353 miles. It's now come off the road with 4200 miles 
and I'm sorting the interior and fascias out.

What happenned to that 17-year stored car that came up recently for 
$8000 ?? I liked the look of that one!

Martin
#1458

spaceace3113 wrote:

>i just returned from a 1300 miles roundtrip drive from NY to 
>VA...very dissapointed...not because of the waste of time but because 
>the car really did have the 483 miles, but...because it was a shame 
>the car was neglect4ed so much 
>
<snip>




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/