From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1044
Date: Saturday, May 25, 2002 11:48 PM

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There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Help.....Car Won't Start
From: "rdthomason28209" <rdt7_at_dml_carolina.rr.com>

2. Re: Horsepower
From: Robert Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

3. Re: a couple of questions
From: hugo mederos <miami5606_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. Re: a couple of questions
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>

5. Re: a couple of questions
From: "adam_one_million" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>

6. Tires.. excitement and worries...
From: "adam_one_million" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>

7. Re: rear drive axle question
From: "dmcman82" <dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com>

8. dimmer rheostatic wiring
From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>

9. For Walt
From: "checksix3" <checksix3_at_dml_juno.com>

10. Car Won't Start: FIXED!
From: "rdthomason28209" <rdt7_at_dml_carolina.rr.com>

11. Re: rear drive axle question
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

12. Re: a couple of questions
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 13:27:36 -0000
From: "rdthomason28209" <rdt7_at_dml_carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Help.....Car Won't Start

No rapid clicks. I may be getting a single click; it's hard to tell. 
However the engine does not budge at all. I'm using pretty robust 
jumper cables and have tried two different cars to jump it off of. I 
still think it has something to do with the Alarm system since it 
won't turn on now. I'm going to check the battery in the 
Alarm 'clicker' but I replaced it not too long ago so I don't think 
that's it. There must be some way to bypass the Alarm System or at 
least reset it.

Bob


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., dherv10_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Bob, My first impression is the solenoid /starter has reached it's 
life. Are 
> you getting rapid clicks when trying to start or do you get one 
solid click 
> and it just barely turnes over. If the later is what's happening. 
The more 
> than likley the starter solenoid is going out. Unless you have a 
large gauge 
> jumper cable, and another good hot battery, you may not be able to 
transfer 
> enough current to turn the starter over good enough to start the 
car.
> John hervey
> http://www.specialtauto.com/
>  
> << I'm still new to my car and it seems to have some sort of 
electrical bug 
> that has now prevented it from starting. I drive this car daily but 
sometimes 
> the battery goes dead undetermined reasons. Not often, just 
occasionally. 
>  
>  Got in it this afternoon and battery was dead. Tried a jump which 
has worked 
> in the past but engine would not budge. Got a normal voltage 
reading on the 
> dash meter and radio, etc. worked. Engine just wouldn't turn over.  
Let 
> jumper cables stay attached while other car kept running for a 
while to 
> charge battery----no luck. What could be keeping the engine from 
turning 
> over??
>  
>  Only other clue is that the car was having a very slight 
difficultly 
> starting in recent days. Like it didn't want to fire. Previously it 
would 
> just start right up.
>  
>  I also have a Code Alert alarm system. I don't know if it's 
connected to the 
> ignition in any way. Normally what happens is when I connect jumper 
cables, 
> the alarm goes off. I hit the disarm button on the remote and start 
the car. 
> Only this time it wouldn't turn over. 
>  
>  A >>




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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 09:09:18 -0500
From: Robert Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: Horsepower

Three articles were published in Delorean world about horsepower 
upgrades and dyno testing of stock deloreans.  These were published 
about 2 years ago.

The stock Deloreans put out about 100 bhp at the wheels.  The automatic 
car was a little less.

Also the SAE horsepower rating system was changed back in 1971 to 
include all engine accessories during testing including alternater, 
power steering, air pump etc.

No car companies print net HP at the wheels.

Bob











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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 08:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: hugo mederos <miami5606_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: a couple of questions


I had this happend to me last week battery dead.
Found out when I adjusted my door it threw the door
light switch on, in other words the switch did not
compress enough to turn the door lights off.
You might want to check if your other lights are
staying on like engine light and trunk and glove box
lights.
I was lucky to find the light still on when I turned
off the garage light and there was a small tear in the
outside door seal.


Just an Idea
Hugo vin 2800

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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:32:31 -0500
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>
Subject: Re: a couple of questions

never use your alternator to charge the battery. the alternator is not designed to
charge a dead battery. an alternator is designed to keep the necessary functions of the
car running and to give the battery a small charge to replace the charge you took off of
it when you started the car. by using the alternator to charge a dead battery will cause
the alternator to overheat and this will cause the life of the alternator to be short.

later
mark




Andrew Prentis wrote:

> Hi Guys,
> I'm a new DeLorean owner and just have a couple of
> questions about my car I hope you can help me with.
>
> Yesterday when I went to start my car the battery was
> flat.The car hadn't been driven for a couple of
> weeks.Is it normal for a DeLorean battery to go flat
> in such a short time? I had to leave my
> other 'normal'car for a whole month and it started up
> again straight away.I drove the D for a solid hour to
> charge the battery up and it started okay today.Could
> there be something draining it while its not being
> driven?
> Also when i started it it blew a fair bit of smoke for
> about 30 seconds then cleared.Smoke was pretty clear
> in colour but reeked of petrol.It seems to do this
> only after not being driven for a week or so.Is this
> typical?Or do I have a problem?
> Thanks in advance for any answers or suggestions.
> Andrew Prentis
> VIN 2883
> Sydney,Australia
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 17:43:21 -0000
From: "adam_one_million" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: a couple of questions

Hey, I am a new owner myself and I too dealt with the draining 
battery problem. It isn't normal for it to drain in two weeks time. 
You may have short or closed circuit in your car somewhere. 

With my car, it ended up being the courtesy lights for the doors. The 
switch on the side of the dash had actually pushed its way too far 
into the dash, so when the door was closed, the switch was still 
putting current to the lights.

As for the smoking exhaust, my car does this now and then for a few 
minutes after I first start it. I dont think thats normal either...

Adam

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Andrew Prentis <aprentis_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Guys,
> I'm a new DeLorean owner and just have a couple of
> questions about my car I hope you can help me with.
> 
> Yesterday when I went to start my car the battery was
> flat.The car hadn't been driven for a couple of
> weeks.Is it normal for a DeLorean battery to go flat
> in such a short time? I had to leave my
> other 'normal'car for a whole month and it started up
> again straight away.I drove the D for a solid hour to
> charge the battery up and it started okay today.Could
> there be something draining it while its not being
> driven?
> Also when i started it it blew a fair bit of smoke for
> about 30 seconds then cleared.Smoke was pretty clear
> in colour but reeked of petrol.It seems to do this
> only after not being driven for a week or so.Is this
> typical?Or do I have a problem?
> Thanks in advance for any answers or suggestions.
> Andrew Prentis
> VIN 2883
> Sydney,Australia
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com




________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 17:57:12 -0000
From: "adam_one_million" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Tires.. excitement and worries...

[ Moderators note: Shops experianced with performance wheels and tires use stick on weights and the balancing can be done by sticking the weights to the back side of the wheel. Most likely the shop that installed the Yokohamas did that. Don't remove the weights that you have now.]

I finally got my new tires today. I got pirelli 6000s for front and 
600s for rear. My previous tires were yokohama AVS, and they had no 
counter balance weights attached to the wheels. When the techs at Les 
Schwab installed my Pirellis they did the spin balance and attached 
one of these weights to each wheel.

I feel that these weights detract from the overall cool appearance of 
the car.. Can they be removed without causing too much ride 
abnormalities? Can they be mounted on the other side of the tire 
where they cant be seen? 

My Yokos did not have these weights, so I am wondering if yokos are 
just so good that they dont require them? I never noticed anything 
too crazy going on before with the yokos, but then I had no basis for 
comparison either. I have to say that the pirellis are good, road 
noise is decreased by 25%, and with tread on the front tires, 
steering is very easy now! Now all I need to do is solve my own 
outside edge tread wear problem, and I'll be set.

Also the tech tightened the wheel nuts to 90 ft lbs.. is this okay or 
should I loosen them?

Adam




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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 18:04:31 -0000
From: "dmcman82" <dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: rear drive axle question

The bearings are sealed. Chances are you may have damaged them 
taking them apart and regreasing them or they are worn out from use. 
If the noise you described is like a whining noise or a "wobble" 
noise it's you bearing. With the wheel off and caliper off the rear, 
move the axle around and see if there is any play. If there is I 
would suggest replacing them. Replace them as a pair, replaceing 
both the left and right.

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "john572905" <jrc2905_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I have finally put my D back together. There is something not 
right, 
> I can feel it acting rough and some noise from the rear axle when 
I 
> drive it. I took the entire rear suspension off the car and 
cleaned 
> and regreased all componants, replaced the transmission seals and 
> sandblasted and rust proofed all the parts including frame, plus 
all 
> rebuild on the brakes,
>  My questions is;
> 1. The rear drive axles, is there a correct way to install them. 
the 
> manual talks about a inside and outside axle connection, how do u 
> tell this.
> 2.the manual calls for 270 pounds of torque on the axle nut, my 
> torque wrench only goes to 160. I torqued it to that and then 
some, 
> could I have over tightened the axle bolt? I did take the axle 
> bearings out and regreased them.
> 3. what car is the brake master cylinder from. I need one small 
part 
> and do not want to by the whole master cylinder right now.
> Any help is appreciated, I just want to drive.
> John Cabral




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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 14:10:33 -0400
From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>
Subject: dimmer rheostatic wiring

anybody able to help me ..
 
what is the order that the 3 wires connect to the 4 prongs on the
rheostatic dimmer above the shifter?
 
--------------
|    |   |    |
 
which 3 are used?
 
thanks you
Kenneth
05541


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 18:14:11 -0000
From: "checksix3" <checksix3_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: For Walt



>>> don't see much of a point in a custom baffle since the OEM isn't 
too bad in my opinion (unless you don't like the thought of paying 
$92 for a rubber hose that may need to be replaced in another 20 
years).<<<

I try to avoid elastomers submerged in fuel unless needed for sealing 
or gasketing purposes. Stainless will last 100 years as its not 
effected by heat or storage and will not collapse. One less thing to 
worry about.

>>>Eliminating the long flexible suction hose means proper height of 
the fuel suction screen is going to be touchy -- too low and it will 
conduct vibration; too high and it will suck air when the tank is 
low.  I would try to design it so that the baffle fills faster than 
it empties, but still have the suction low enough so that it won't 
suck air when you first start the car from an almost empty tank, 
i.e., the level in the baffle will be as low as the rest of the 
tank.<<

I don't feel vibration is a problem but if it is, there are several 
solutions. Of course the baffle must fill faster than it drains, 
otherwise the design would be useless. With proper design, the level 
in the baffle will always be the same as the tank, no way around 
this. I must finalize the design and test it under real world 
conditions before I can offer more info.

Btw, I'm beginning to think "hot fuel" is not the root cause of these 
problems. Until I can see a mechanisim that scientificaly corealates
to that, I'm not sure I buy into it. Your comments about vaporization 
in the pump are interesting but need further research to explain some 
issues a petro-engineer friend of mine says make it unlikely. Have 
you measured the temp of the fuel at any point?

>>>Excuse my stupidy, but what does MTBF mean?<<<

Sorry, the engineer in me tends to creep out at times. MTBF is Mean 
Time Between Failure. 

>>>I think that the kind of hose you are talking about is the same or 
similar kind of material as the SS braided clutch line upgrade & 
Marty's brake lines.  I doubt that you will be able to fit/stretch 
these the same way as regular coolant hoses.  It seems to me that you 
would need to attach special fittings.<<<

Yes, compression fittings with ferrules, then maybe AN fittings. No 
hose clamps allowed. The coolant pipes may have to be cut back a 
little to accept the minimum length that can be made up. Overkill, I 
know, but these will never leak or deteriorate. I will modify the car 
in any way to improve my confidence in it, while reducing the 
maintenance issues.

>>>Someday I want to replace my refrigerant lines and am thinking 
that I want to use PTFE? under stainless flex.  If this is what I 
think it is, it is commonly used in commercial refrigeration 
systems.<<<

The D uses old "non barrier" type hoses in the suction and discharge 
lines of the R12 system and Dichlorodifluoromethane slowly permeates 
through these. This is why all older cars lose charge over time, even 
if all the other components are leak free. Unfortunately, flexible 
hoses are a must in vehicles, unlike stationary reefer systems. They 
needed be SS but if you ever change your A/C hoses, I would 
definately replace them with the new barrier type. This will leave 
the compressor shaft seal as the only weak spot, a problem shared by 
all vehicles.

>>>I think your opinion is too kind.  :-)  I'm happy doing the 
basic "vendor approved" modifications; although, I would be happier 
with an entirely new wiring system.<<<

Lol, your talking to a guy who was going to add a complete Halon 
Fire Supression System to the car. Central bottle with piping and 
nozzles to engine, electrical and luggage compartments. Discharging 
would cut main power also. But, I decided its better to treat the 
disease than the symptoms. (I'll still carry an extinguisher 
though :-)

The vendor stuff adresses only some issues. The lack of overcurrent 
protection at sources, insufficent current carrying capacity of the 
conductors used, and poor termination practices all need to be looked 
at. In addition, such design pratices as powering so many things on 
the accessory relay (auto trans computer, A/C system, etc) as well as 
installing CBs downstream of control relays (as in the fan circuit, 
whats up with that?) are an abomination to good electrical design and 
can be easily corrected. (I could go on and on, is that unkind 
enough? :-)

>>> I don't want the next owner to have a hard time figuring out what 
I did differently.<<<

The key is proper documentaion of the changes. As a former machine 
design engineer, I could do better prints than the factory did with 
my eyes closed. Future owners of my car will have no problems 
diagnosing electrical faults, assuming there will ever be many. 
(Problems, not owners :-) Applying aircraft materials, design, and 
testing techniques has always served me well, I trust my life to them 
at my job. This is why the racing folks also use them. Besides, I 
personally feel the car's status is further enhanced by the use of 
such practices and materials.

On another note, my passenger window quit working. After checking the 
switch and power, I had to open the door up to replace the connector 
that had simply fallen off the window motor. Lots of work, just to 
find a bad connector. I suggest strain relieving all that stuff when  
in there or replacing with locking aerospace types. This is the kind 
of thing I'm talking about, designing for reliability involves minor 
details that are often overlooked. Its work, and not cheap, but it 
beats the hassle of standing by a dead car on the side of the road.

Also adding a remote door opening system, this can be done very 
cheaply by modifying a keyless entry/alarm system or shaved door 
handle kit from Autoloc or one of the others on the market. Use it to 
sequence the door locks, which then communicate with the latch 
actuators. This way the doors won't be unlatched unless the locks are 
moved first. I also added a spring loaded popper as its nice to have 
the hood come up on release.

Btw, the entire door locking issue can be resolved simply by using a 
SPDT electrical switch (like a power window switch), removing the 
lock controller and making some minor wiring changes, instead of 
using the manual linkage. The downside in that there is no longer a 
mechanical way to unlock the doors from inside the car (outside key 
still functions) and that would have to be addressed. This is a 
safety issue so I would not recommend it, as every OEM system with 
power locks has some form of manual unlocking. An emergency pull 
cable to the lock linkage would solve this, used only in an 
emergency. 

>>Gary, welcome to the DML.  It's a pleasure exchanging ideas with 
technically minded people like you.<<

Thanks (I think :-) My experience is that very technically minded 
people are not always well received, so we'll see what develops.
While my experience with the car is limited at this point, it isn't 
rocket science. Systems are systems, whether in a vehicle or taco 
making machine. I do value others here for their experiences and the 
failure history they can provide, along with the exchange of ideas 
that comes with open disscusion. Purusing of the archives has 
revealed some very good talent herebouts. (Mark Hershey, Darryl, and 
Martin in the UK come to mind, among others.) Unfortunately, my work 
schedule will not permit me to participate very often.

My apologies for the length.

Gary





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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 19:00:50 -0000
From: "rdthomason28209" <rdt7_at_dml_carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Car Won't Start: FIXED!

Based on some previous posts I decided to remove power completely 
from the car on the theory that voltage fluctuation caused my car 
alarm to "lock up" and prevent it from starting. I thought reducing 
the voltage to zero may 'reset' the alarm system. I had just begun to 
remove the positive cable from the battery. As soon as I turned the 
nut, the alarm began blaring. Everything was back to normal. 
Interesting, there was no visable corrosion on the battery terminal. 
My theory is that somehow as the battery discharged (for still 
undetermined reasons)it produced some minor corrosion that prevented 
current to the alarm system (a separate wire attached to the postive 
battery terminal). The wire to the rest of the car remain unaffected 
since everything else seemed to work and voltage was OK as I 
attempted to jump the car. 

I still need to figure out why my battery occasionally discharges. 
Thanks to you who provided suggestions. 

Bob Thomason
#5252




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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 19:06:45 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: rear drive axle question

If you did not follow the proper procedures in removing the seals you 
may have upset the bearing preload. The rumbling you hear may be 
because the bearings are now too tight. Refer to F:04:01-02 if manual 
and G:06:04-05 for automatic. To set the preload correctly will now 
require removal of the final drive. If automatic check the fluid level 
of the final drive and if manual check the level of the trans.
 It is bad practice to use a torque wrench outside it's range, you may 
permanantly damage it. To measure torque above a torque wrench's range 
you need a torque multiplier which is a lever calibrated to multipy 
the torque from the torque wrench or a bigger torque wrench.
 If you are having problems with the master cylinder don't sc-ew 
around, make sure you brakes are working CORRECTLY!!! Always use 
Castrol GTLMA Dot 4 and if it hasn't been done lately flush the system 
out and you will have more to do then just a master cylinder. If a 
5-speed do the clutch too.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "john572905" <jrc2905_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I have finally put my D back together. There is something not right, 
> I can feel it acting rough and some noise from the rear axle when I 
> drive it. I took the entire rear suspension off the car and cleaned 
> and regreased all componants, replaced the transmission seals and 
> sandblasted and rust proofed all the parts including frame, plus all 
> rebuild on the brakes,
>  My questions is;
> 1. The rear drive axles, is there a correct way to install them. the 
> manual talks about a inside and outside axle connection, how do u 
> tell this.
> 2.the manual calls for 270 pounds of torque on the axle nut, my 
> torque wrench only goes to 160. I torqued it to that and then some, 
> could I have over tightened the axle bolt? I did take the axle 
> bearings out and regreased them.
> 3. what car is the brake master cylinder from. I need one small part 
> and do not want to by the whole master cylinder right now.
> Any help is appreciated, I just want to drive.
> John Cabral




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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 19:12:39 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: a couple of questions

First have the battery tested to see if it is still good. Next make 
sure the door and courtesy lights go out when the doors are closed. 
Check the engine light and the bonnet light too. Many owners use a 
battery master switch when they aren't using the car for a while but 
the car should not go dead in a couple of weeks unless something is 
wrong. Also check the lighter for sticking or any coins inside. On 
startup the cold start valve dumps a lot of fuel for a short time to 
warm-up the motor so unless it is for a long time (over 1 min) it is 
OK.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Andrew Prentis <aprentis_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Guys,
> I'm a new DeLorean owner and just have a couple of
> questions about my car I hope you can help me with.
> 
> Yesterday when I went to start my car the battery was
> flat.The car hadn't been driven for a couple of
> weeks.Is it normal for a DeLorean battery to go flat
> in such a short time? I had to leave my
> other 'normal'car for a whole month and it started up
> again straight away.I drove the D for a solid hour to
> charge the battery up and it started okay today.Could
> there be something draining it while its not being
> driven?
> Also when i started it it blew a fair bit of smoke for
> about 30 seconds then cleared.Smoke was pretty clear
> in colour but reeked of petrol.It seems to do this
> only after not being driven for a week or so.Is this
> typical?Or do I have a problem?
> Thanks in advance for any answers or suggestions.
> Andrew Prentis
> VIN 2883
> Sydney,Australia
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com




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