From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1057
Date: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 3:42 PM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Low pressure switch replacement
From: Delorean17_at_dml_aol.com

2. Rear Shocks
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

3. Re: Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

4. DeLorean vendors and other scammers (was paying less for quality stuff)
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

5. Re: Usenet idea
From: Ian Stewart <istewart_at_dml_mac.com>

6. RE: paying less for quality stuff
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

7. RE: paying less for quality stuff
From: "IN2TIME" <Gary_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>

8. door hinge wobble
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

9. Re: The Resurrection of Vixen Continues... And Crunch Time Begins
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

10. Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

11. Re: First day with the new wheels....
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

12. Re: noise
From: "miller99501" <kamiller_at_dml_gci.net>

13. "DeLorean" brand car stereo
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

14. Re: heat soak
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

15. speedo jumping
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

16. Digital Dash (was: First day with the new wheels....)
From: "bmxc" <ben_at_dml_benmaxwell.com>

17. Re: paying less for quality stuff (web links)
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

18. RE: Engine Numbers
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>

19. Rare stuff now for sale.
From: Steve Peck <stevepeck1_at_dml_yahoo.com>

20. Sanden (Sankyo) Recommended procedures for R-134 conversion
From: "Stragand, Dave" <dave.stragand_at_dml_ketchum.com>

21. Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

22. Re: alignment
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

23. Re: Nasty gauges
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

24. RE: Re: Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>

25. Re: DeLorean vendors and other scammers (was paying less for quality stuff)
From: "Ed Garbade" <edgarbade_at_dml_hotmail.com>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:09:49 EDT
From: Delorean17_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Low pressure switch replacement

Hi,
    I ordered a new AC low pressure switch as I think mine may be defective.  
How is this replaced?  Does it just unscrew?  Is there a valve that keeps 
freon from leaking out when I remove it?
    If this doesn't solve my cycling problem I will have some more freon 
added.  It was tested for leaks and none were found but they were not sure 
how much freon to put in the system.

Thanks
David



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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:39:26 EDT
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Rear Shocks

The following are cross ref's I've found for rear shocks on the Delorean.
With all, a custom collar has to be fabricated by you or your local machine 
shop which clamps around the lower shock body, to support the lower coil 
spring seat, ala the Mid States design. It's then adjustable for ride height.

These are Rear Shocks
94049 NAPA gas charged Deluxe
94013 NAPA gas charged Deluxe
94004 NAPA gas charged Deluxe
5803 NAPA Sensa-Trac
Monroe-Matic Plus 31125

Some Cross Ref Applications are as follows:
American Motors-Javelin, AMX 1968-1974, Rear All
American Motors Concord, Spirit and AMX 1978-1983, rear All
Cheverolet Full Sized 1949-1957 ,Rear All
Chevrolet Camaro all with multi-leaf rear springs inc. Z-28, 1968-1969 All 
Chevrolet Corvette 1953-1962, Rear All 
Ford Full Size 1965-1970, Rear All
Ford Custom &Custom 500 1971-1982, Rear All
Mercury Full Size 1965-1970, Rear All 
Mercury Marquis 1971-1982, Rear All
Mercury Moneterey 1971-1982, Rear All
Oldsmobile Cutlass, Cutlass Supreme, F-85 Station Wagon 
1968-1972 Rear All
Nissan 410 & 411 Bluebird 1964-1966
Nissan 510 Passenger car Rear 1969-1973
Nissan 710 Passenger car Rear 1974-1977
Nissan 2000 Passenger car (Except Roadster) Rear 1967-1971

I have seen and used the Napa 94004. They are dimensionally correct, 
inexpensive and offer a much smoother ride than stock Girlings. The above 
applications came from an AMC club website. If using something other than the 
94004, be sure to confirm their accuracy.

Jim 6147



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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 03:03:58 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block

Re: More power <grunt grunt grunt>

In my own quest, heard from fellow whose friend fried a DMC
transmission (automatic) _at_dml_ 300 HP. Just a word of warning ...

BTW: am located in obscure border county of southeast North Carolina.
That's a long way from Houston or California.

Is also true I don't even have the car yet -- could be tying myself
into knots over a project that never materializes (unless someone in
this group knows whereabouts of an engine-less DeLorean within
trailering distance of an obscure border county in southeast North
Carolina).

Re: my original question -- responses have been quick and informative.
DMC enthusiasts are to be complimented.

Bill.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> If your goal in engine swapping to reliability, stick with stock. 
Find yourself a good import mechanic.  Check your area for people
familiar with Volvo, Volkswagen, or Porsche.  They should be able to
help you with most problems.
> 
> I am not sure where you are, but you also have the option of having
the car transported to one of the well knows DMC service centers.  You
can also do all the work yourself (with assistance from the
professionals, and list members).
> 



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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 22:04:46 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: DeLorean vendors and other scammers (was paying less for quality stuff)

checksix3_at_dml_juno.com wrote:

> First off, let me say that I'm all for supporting the parts vendors
> for parts truly specific to the car. However, I'm stunned at the
> prices being charged for commonly availible items.

As one of the DeLorean vendors, I have to think that you have a pretty
short-sighted view of things. If you don't support the vendors for ALL the
bits and pieces you need, pretty soon you may find yourself in the position
where you can't get ANY DeLorean-specific parts.

Do you think P.J. Grady would have been willing/able to finance the
development of his Zilla products? Or DeLorean Motor Center been willing or
able to develop parts like the coil cover, and fuel system parts without the
support of owners buying more than "just" the DeLorean-specific parts?

DeLorean Motor Company has done the same thing with door handles, window
switches, rear view mirrors, windshield washer pumps, and more. Without the
support of the owners and enthusiasts buying most or all of their TOTAL
DeLorean parts needs from us and the other vendors, the ability (and
initiative) to fund the creation of parts that no longer exist fades away.

Having been around the DML since the beginning, this topic comes up from
time to time. The newer readers and participants, like yourself, often
overlook things like this. Many of the parts you consider to be commonly
available items are either not easily found (factor in the time you spend
shopping around) or when you get your 'bargain part' - who will support you
in it's possibly non-standard usage in a DeLorean? Buy the window regulator
from someone else, but I can GUARANTEE you that it will NOT go in like the
original you'll take out. Will they provide you with DeLorean-specific
instructions for the installation? How many do you think they have
installed? Will they provide you with a toll-free number to call and answer
your questions? Will they have the experience from hundreds and hundreds of
installs to guide you through the process?

We occasionally get calls from folks wanting to know where they can buy or
what the cross-reference is for a certain part. I don't have the time to
know all the cross-references for parts when I know I have something on my
shelf that I will guarantee will work and, if you buy it from us we will
hold your hand every step of the way with it if necessary to ensure you are
satisfied. People get mad when we don't/won't tell them where they can get a
cross reference 'johnson rod' or 'whoozeewhatzit'. They tell me they are
going to start buying their parts elsewhere...and I tell them it sounds like
they already are...

Support the vendors, all of them, for all the things they do for you,
personally with your car, and the entire DeLorean hobby. That way there will
be a hobby for your kids, and their kids, and hopefully their kids, too.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

James Espey
NOTE OUR NEW ADDRESS/PHONE NUMBERS
DeLorean Motor Company
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396

281/441-2537 Voice
281/441-2813 Fax
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com  




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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:11:02 -0700
From: Ian Stewart <istewart_at_dml_mac.com>
Subject: Re: Usenet idea

> One more issue...I noticed that Yahoo has been home to this newsgroup
> for quite awhile.  I was initially quite pleased with it at the time
> I bought by D in March 2000.  However, I would like to register my
> dissatisfaction with Yahoo, and (perhaps be the first to) suggest
> that we move it someplace else.  I do not aspire to be an antagonist,
> but I find it more and more difficult to browse through the mailing
> list.  Wading through advertisements, slow searches and page loads,
> and annoying pop-ups all contribute to a very unsatisfactory
> experience.  Being a computer scientist, I have always been a fan of
> usenet.  At least then we could use Google Groups.  However, I
> realize that this may not be for everyone.

I am usually mildly irritated by Yahoo's random ad behavior, but I think 
it works quite well for our purposes. I am also a huge fan of Usenet and 
have always wished there was a DeLorean and/or Back to the Future 
newsgroup, but we'd have to go through a lot of hoops to get something 
like that to happen. Just going off the top of my head, you first have 
to submit a charter to the alt.config newsgroup, composed of a bunch of 
sysadmins who decide whether or not to let it pass. Then you have to 
send out a control message, which is a special message that goes out to 
all the Usenet servers on the Internet. I believe that even then, the 
local admin of a server can decide whether or not to accept a group on 
his/her server or not. Plus, another huge problem on Usenet is spam. 
We'd have to make sure that a D group is a moderated group, which might 
make our current moderators' jobs that much harder since they'd probably 
have to turn down a massive volume of posts from spammers and every 
other kook on the Internet. Even then, I'm not sure that Google Groups' 
method of handling binaries is as robust as Yahoo's web-based interface. 
A DeLorean newsgroup is certainly possible, but I don't think it's worth 
it considering the circumstances. I for one am still happy with my daily 
dmc-news digest in the mail.

Ian
VIN# anyone looking to sell for cheap?




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:52:07 -0500
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: paying less for quality stuff

The window lifts look the same as the parts sold by 
vendors.  I haven't tried one from this particular
company.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: checksix3 [mailto:checksix3_at_dml_juno.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:05 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] paying less for quality stuff


First off, let me say that I'm all for supporting the parts vendors 
for parts truly specific to the car. However, I'm stunned at the 
prices being charged for commonly availible items. 





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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:32:14 -0700
From: "IN2TIME" <Gary_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>
Subject: RE: paying less for quality stuff

The correct domain for McMaster Carr is www.mcmaster.com not
www.macmaster.com). 

Hope this helps.

Gary
IN2TIME





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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 01:19:59 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: door hinge wobble

Now that I have my drivers door off, I have noticed what seems like a lot of
looseness in the hinges.  In the closed position, the front hinge has 3mm of
fore/aft play, and the rear hinge has 7mm.  Of course with the door
attached, the hinges are going to be held parallel, but I'm curious if
anyone can say if this amount of slop is normal.  It seems like a lot.
There is no measurable play perpendicular to the pivot axis which is what
really matters.

Walt




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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 01:25:14 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: The Resurrection of Vixen Continues... And Crunch Time Begins

> I've been warned against gluing the DMC mirror to the glass because of
breakage.

I have seen a photo of a DeLorean with the windshield cracked right down the
center over where a GM style metal mounting tab was recently glued on.
Presumably this is why the windshield cracked.  Iron can be mixed in glass
to make it stronger, and this gives it a green tint.  Since the DeLorean
windshields don't have this green tint, my theory is that they are not as
strong.  The GM system uses a rigid metal tab with glue that holds tight.
The DeLorean OEM uses a plastic pad with some double sided tape which
provides more room for expansion/contraction.

I bought probably the same electrochromatic rear view mirror that you did
with compass & thermometer.  It's a Gentex model I bought from JCWhitney who
also listed next to it in their catalogue a mounting kit to make the mirror
fit foreign cars.  Since the kit was cheap, I bought it.  I probably won't
have time to install it in time for Memphis.  (I'm going to dedicate any
'recreational' time to making convex side mirrors, and I haven't made the
first one to bring yet!  Arrg!)  The kit is really a plastic replacement for
the metal mounting tab that is standard for American made cars.  This
plastic is full of holes and comes with a tube of glue.  The instructions
say that moisture helps cure the glue and recommend leaving a bowl of water
under the mirror on a hot day.  This sounds totally absurd, but then I'm not
a glue chemist.

I want to know how you run the new wires for the mirror along the passenger
side of the windshield.  Does the trim come off easily?  Or do you fish the
wires through using a coat hanger?  Oh, you bought your car in kit form, so
probably the post was already apart.  :-)

The same mirror came stock in my '99 GMC truck, but it has a telescoping
plastic cover that holds the wire neatly against the windshield.  The
aftermarket Gentex mirror lacks this.  I already installed one of these
mirrors in a Mercury and found that the glossy sheath on the wire bundle is
very distracting at night.  As cars pass, it reflects light in a swirling
fashion.  It definitely needs that missing matte cover.

Walt




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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 01:27:41 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block

Bill,

If you are going to replace the engine with a Ford or a Chevy, then you are
just as well also replacing the rest of the car with a Ford or a Chevy.  So
then what's the point in owning a DeLorean?  They came with nice engines.
It isn't high performance, but it is easy to diagnose (with the right tools)
and one of the more reliable parts of the car.

If you buy a DeLorean, I suggest running it with the original engine while
you debug all the other things that commonly go wrong with the car including
the factory weak spots & defects and things associated with the age.  Then
if there comes a time when you are happy with every part of the car except
the engine, then swap the engine.  The engine isn't hard to understand.  I
know it better than ANY other kind of engine I've ever worked on.

I'm planning an engine AND transmission swap eventually, but for now I'm
busy fixing up other parts of the car (and many many other non-car projects
in my life).  I have a PDC stainless steel frame on the way and someday I'm
planning a Porsche 4 speed tiptronic coupled to a Cadillac Northstar V8.
But for now what I have works good enough.

Walt




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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 01:28:34 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: First day with the new wheels....

> It has the Island
> twin turbo kit, 16X7 front and 17X7 Team Loco 7-spoke wheels.

Now this I'm curious to see in person at the Memphis show.  I don't think
it's a good idea to go narrower than the OEM 8" wide rear wheels because of
the rear heavy weight ratio.  The 7" wide front rims, depending on how the
offset is spaced may decrease your turning radius from having the wheel hit
the sway bar.  (I'm becoming an expert on that. :-)  I'm planning on coming
with my TSW low profile rims mounted despite the clearance problems with the
sway bar.  I figure that there aren't many sharp turns between here and
Memphis.

>      Ok, this is getting Walt-like in length so I'll cut off.

(Lurch-like grumble ala the Addams Family  :-)

Walt




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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 06:59:47 -0000
From: "miller99501" <kamiller_at_dml_gci.net>
Subject: Re: noise

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "checksix3" <checksix3_at_dml_j...> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> I have a clicking noise thats is vehicle (not engine) speed dependent 
> coming from the left rear wheel. The slightest application of brake 
> stops it. I've had the wheel off and found nothing obvious. A search 
> of the archives shows someone had exactly this problem in 1996 but I 
> never found how he resolved it. Any ideas?
> 
> Gary

  I had the same problem, I found out that the rear pads were clicking
up against the calipers. I put the retaining pin kit which includes
the antirattle springs from PJ Grady in and havn't had problem since.
I think you may have the same problem, try looking at the pads. I hope
this helps.
    kevin 
     




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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 00:17:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: "DeLorean" brand car stereo

Does anyone know what the deal is with this?

http://www.henkpluim.nl/Speakers.html

Scroll all the way to the bottom of the page.

-Christian




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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:06:12 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: heat soak

Sorry - I must've missed the original post to which this relates.... the 
FanZilla cycles down in the same way that it cyles up, which means the 
fans shut down in sequence when you force them to switch off (by turning 
the key). They only remain on for a couple of seconds. In all my posts 
about my design for an equivalent DIY device, one of the suggestions I 
received was for the fans to shut off instantly when you remove the key. 
It's really easy to do either.

If you're suggesting that leaving the fans running for a time after the 
engine's switched off - this might make sense when the rad is directly 
in front of the engine (some cars do this over here), but when it's half 
a mile away at the other end of the car, with no coolant flowing, what's 
the point?

BTW a turbo requires time to "spin down" while the engine's still 
running (and supplying it with oil). It has little or nothing to do with 
cooling. The Intercooler is something completely different. This removes 
the heat in the air once pressurised.

Martin
#1458

K Creason wrote:

>I seem to remember someone saying they had a fan module that would run the
>fans for a while after turning off the engine. (Like a turbo intercooler?)
>Is that a fanzilla? Or? (Martin? hint hint?)
>Would any valves (and what other systems) need to be opened/powered for
>behavior like that?
>





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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:24:04 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: speedo jumping

Hey all,

speaking of bad gauges...
i've noticed for a long time that at low speeds like when you are just 
creeping along, my speedometer needle jumps up and down from about 0 to 10 or 
15 in a rhythmic manner.  it's really annoying!  do they all do that or is my 
car not right?  the speedo works otherwise - i have a new dustcap and 
hardcore angle drive as of last year.  

i know that grady has a wire bracket thing that supports the lower speedo 
cable near the drive.  i don't have that add-on, and i also have the longer 
style lower speedo cable, which is zip-tied loosely to the brake line for 
support.

Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 11:37:33 -0000
From: "bmxc" <ben_at_dml_benmaxwell.com>
Subject: Digital Dash (was: First day with the new wheels....)

Matt (et al)

How 'bout putting some Dakota dash pics online (esp the one w/ the 
triple digit speed... ;) ) for those that actually have to work thru 
the memphis show...

ben
06976






If you would like to see the digital dash in operation please
> come on over to my car sometime in Memphis and I will fire it up for
> you.  Dakota Digital has offered me a discount if I can confirm some
> orders and I would pass that discount off to you in full if you are
> interested.  They want only 20 orders to offer it as a kit instead 
of
> a custom one-off (or two-off in our case).  This lowers it by about 
$400.





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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:00:56 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: paying less for quality stuff (web links)

I agree.  The vendors do a great job of supplying all of us the parts
we need to keep our Deloreans in top shape.  But once NOS parts are
depleated, the vendors have to go to other sources as well to find
good quality replacement parts, to purchase or have specially made.

Especially when customizing Deloreans, it is very important to find
hign quality components that can be used for non-OEM applications.

BTW - The correct URL for McMaster Carr is (www.mcmaster.com)

>snip<
>
> While I support the vendors for specific parts (and will continue to 
> do so), I think its important to realize the same quality can be had 
> elsewhere for much less when dealing with generic parts. An example 
> is McMaster Carr (www.macmaster.com). You can't get a catalog unless 
> you have a business, but they sell retail on the Internet. 
>
>snip<
> 
> On another note, has anyone tried this outfit's window regulators? 
> www.a1electric.com  
> 
>snip<




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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:05:43 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>
Subject: RE: Engine Numbers

Based on the theory we are discussing, your car would have come off the line in early 81.  It probably went for it's RHD conversion and was completed in May 82.  579 is a low number engine, and (based on the cars I have looked at) I would not expect to see it in a May 82 build car.

The frame number is welded to a plate in the rear driver side corner.  You can see it from under the car looking up at the frame.  It is probably dirty, so bring a rag!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Cunningham [mailto:darren.cunningham_at_dml_virgin.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 5:11 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [DML] Engine Numbers
<SNIP>

> wondering if the engines were also early. You mention frame 
> numbers - where
> can this be found on the car and would this also be a more 
> reliable dating
> method than the VIN's??

>



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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:03:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Peck <stevepeck1_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Rare stuff now for sale.


I will soon be selling my "D" (bittersweet) and am presently liberating by auction a number of rare and not so rare parts I've collected.  Some of these include interior mirrors, a factory ORIGINAL new water pump, an owner's manual cover, with the factory paper (card stock) enclosures in it, including a mint reply mail warranty registration card.  There are a few days left.

If you're interested, Here are two links to what is currently under auction, and what soon will be.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=stevepeck

http://www.dmcnews.com/deptofcmrce/_forsale/000000af.htm

Thanks for posting this.  Contact me with any questions.

-Steve
#3302



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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:06:20 -0400
From: "Stragand, Dave" <dave.stragand_at_dml_ketchum.com>
Subject: Sanden (Sankyo) Recommended procedures for R-134 conversion

There has always been a lot of talk about R-12 vs. R-134.  Here's what Sanden/Sankyo (the manufaturer of the DMC AC compressor, has to say:

Recommended Procedures for Sanden R-12 Compressors Retrofitted with R134a  


The use of R134a in mobile A/C systems designed for R-1 2 refrigerant causes higher discharge pressures (as much as 10-15%) and necessitates changing the compressor lubricant from mineral oil (5GS) to PAG oil (Sanden's SP-10 or SP-20) to ensure compatibility.

These changes result in greater wear to the internal components of the compressor. Therefore, to ensure consistent and expected reliability, Sanden does not recommend using R134a in systems and compressors designed for R-1 2.

However, Sanden understands the realities of the automotive service markets and consumer preferences. If a retrofit is required, please follow the vehicle manufacturer's published retrofit procedures. Ensure all work done complies with SAE recommended practices as described in J1660 & J1661:
- Repair any problems or leaks before retrofitting. 
- Affix labels to the vehicle showing conversion status. 
- Observe all safety recommendations. 
- If an OEM retrofit procedure is not available, Sanden recommends the following procedure: 

Sanden Procedure for Conversion from R-12 to R134a
1) If the R-12 vehicle air conditioning system is operational, run it at idle with the A/C blower on high speed for five (5) minutes to optimize the amount of oil in the compressor. 
2) Recover all R-12 refrigerant from the vehicle's A/C system. Evacuate the A/C system for at least thirty (30) minutes to a vacuum of 29 in. Hg, using R-12 equipment, to remove as much R-12 as possible from the residue mineral oil. Remove all R-12 service equipment. 
3) Remove the compressor from the vehicle. 
4) Remove the compressor oil plug and then drain as much mineral oil as possible from the compressor body. 
5) Drain mineral oil from the cylinder head suction and discharge ports while turning the shaft with a socket wrench on the clutch armature retaining nut. 
6) Remove the existing R-12 receiver-drier or accumulator-drier from the vehicle and discard. Allow as much oil as possible to drain from the A/C hoses. 
7) Change any 0-rings on the receiver-drier or accumulator-drier joints to approved HNBR 0-rings; check and replace other 0-rings that have been disturbed. 
8) Replace the receiver-drier or accumulator-drier with a new R134a compatible one which contains XH7 or XH9 desiccant. 
9) If a CCOT system is being repaired due to compressor damage, or foreign matter is found in the oil drained from the system, this foreign matter must be removed from the system. At this time an in-line filter should be installed in the liquid line. Allow as much oil as possible to drain from the A/C lines when installing the filter. Change any 0-rings disturbed in the installation of the filter to approved HNBR 0-rings. 
10) Perform any necessary repairs to the compressor or A/C system. 
11) Using the original refrigerant oil quantity specification, add SP-20 or SP-1 0 oil to the compressor (SP-10 for TR, SDV-710, SDB-705, SDB-706 and SDB-709; SP-20 for all other SD compressors). 
12) Replace the compressor oil plug 0-ring with an HNBR 0-ring. 
13) Reinstall the compressor oil plug. The plug seat and 0-ring must be clean and free of damage. Torque the plug to 11-18 ft lb (15-25 N m, 150-250 kgf cm). 
14) Change any seals at the compressor ports to approved HNBR seals. 
15) Reinstall the compressor to the A/C system. 
16) Disable the R-12 service fittings to prevent any refrigerant other than R134a from being used. Permanently install R134a quick connect service fittings to the A/C system. 
17) Connect R134a service hoses and other equipment. Re-evacuate the system for thirty (30) minutes using the R134a equipment. 
18) Charge the A/C system with RI 34a. Generally, about 5% (by weight) less than the R-12 charge amount is required. Leak check the system per SAE J1628 procedure. 
19) If the A/C system is a CCOT type, which has been repaired due to damage or the discovery of foreign material in the oil drained from the system, run the system for sixty (60) minutes to capture this material in the filter installed in step 9. Recover the refrigerant, remove and dispose of the filter, reconnect the lines, evacuate for at least forty-five (45) minutes, and recharge the A/C system. This step should not be necessary for TXV systems, since the drier is fitted with an internal filter. 
20) Check the A/C system operating parameters. The system should function correctly within acceptable limits of temperatures and pressures. This will ensure that the correct amount of R134a has been charged. 
21) In extreme circumstances when expected cooling performance cannot be achieved and high discharge pressures are experienced, it may be necessary to add more condensing capacity to the A/C system. An electric fan(s) and/or a larger capacity condenser can be used. 
22) Replace all R-12 compressor labels with retrofit labels per SAE J1660 in order to provide information on the R134a retrofit which has been performed. 

A more complete version is available at http://www.sanden.com/support/RETRO.html

-Dave Stragand
VIN #05927
http://www.projectvixen.com



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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:06:29 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block

Any old, used car is only as reliable as the owner wants it to be. The 
Delorean does have several known weak points and if you are still 
running origional ignition and cooling parts you are asking for 
trouble. IMHO the stock set-up will always be more reliable then any 
conversion because only the person who does the conversion will know 
about how to maintain it or even where to get the parts! My advice is 
to stay stock as much as possible and use all of the known fixes and 
replace all of the parts that age like belts, hoses, ignition, wiring. 
In the end it will make the car worth more as any conversion is a "one 
of" and in this case not worth more. A Delorean that is properly 
maintained is no more prone to breakdowns then any of it's 
contemporaries and IMO more reliable as the fuel system is really 
simple compared to others of that era. Same for the electrical system. 
This doesn't mean things won't break but it should get you home.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Replies starting to trickle in (thanks folks, you're more helpful 
> than people in the AMC world, if that's a compliment) ...
> 
> Am not worried about tune-up, am worried about system putting me to 
> walking. Have read horror stories of cars cutting off inexplicably, 
> not restarting under myriad of conditions, etc (I've never had a 
> carbureted vehicle fail (suddenly) from fuel delivery or ignition). 
> Are these tales atypical or is this probable in a 20 year old stock 
> DeLorean. 
> 
> I understand general risk of wandering from original, but in my 
> circumstance might actually be beneficial. I'm a lesser shade tree 
> mechanic in a land of major shade tree mechanics. Is best not to 
take 
> something too exotic to Billy Bob's Tractor & Combine Repair. 
> 
> Seriously: I'm considering re-engined car for survival, not 
> performance. Do not have resources, knowledge, etc that you find in 
> the metropolitan areas. Someone (myself included) could unwittingly 
> end up making a sick car worse. Why push water uphill -- we know 
> Chevy's & Fords.
> 
> If it helps, I'd like to keep everything outside the engine 
> compartment original.
> 





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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:15:50 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: alignment

There is a reason the toe is 1/2 and not 0. The factory chose that 
value for many reasons. The mechanic who chose to change it is not a 
suspension engineer and I am sure he really doesn't know what he is 
doing. From now on take the car to another shop and watch the wear on 
the tires. You will also notice a slight "hunting" as when the toe is 
correct the car will go straight without any tendency to favor either 
side. The major reason for the 1/2 degree of toe in is that when you 
point the wheels inward slightly as you drive down the road they tend 
to spread so now they end up pointing straight ahead. Toe also affects 
the position of the steering wheel, ie, when you go straight the wheel 
should also be in the straight ahead position. If you have a lowered 
car that also affects toe besides reducing suspension travel.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Delorean17_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hi List,
>     I took my car back to have the front wheels realigned again.  
This time 
> with the correct specs.  They set the toe setting to "0"  the first 
time and 
> the manual states that it should be 1/2 degree.  They said that 1/2 
degree 
> isn't enough to make any difference and would not realign it for me. 
 The guy 
> was pretty snotty about it and it ticked me off.  I sent them a 
letter asking 
> for a refund as they were unable to properly align the car.  Should 
I worry 
> about the toe being at "0" degrees?  I will call around and try to 
find a 
> shop that works on sports cars.  let me know
> 
> Thanks
> David




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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:20:37 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Nasty gauges

The gauges in the Delorean aren't very accurate but for the most part 
are acceptable. To get the oil pressure gauge to work better you can 
replace the sending unit. To get the fuel level to work better install 
a Tankzilla, make sure the wiring grounds in front of the brake master 
cylinder are clean and tight and the battery and charging circuit are 
all in good shape.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "A.H. MacIntosh & Co." <dmc12_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> Has anyone ever pulled the stock instruments out, and put them where 
they
> belong (the rubish bin)... and replaced them with quality gauges?




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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:53:10 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block

DeLorean Services is in Georgia (DMC Joe).  You are only a few hours from New York (PJ Grady) and Florida (forgot the shop name), both states have DMC specialists.  In the event that a car needs to be transported, it is really not all that expensive.

Before you DeLorean shop, you need to be sure you know what you want.  If you have your heart set on a conversion (and, again this should not be a question of reliability) then your correct to look for a engine less car.  In most cases, a car like that will require a lot of non-engine work as well.  I hope you don't plan on driving it any time soon. :)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: content22207 [mailto:brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:04 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Re: Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford 
> small block

<SNIP>
> 
> BTW: am located in obscure border county of southeast North Carolina.
> That's a long way from Houston or California.
> 
> Is also true I don't even have the car yet -- could be tying myself
> into knots over a project that never materializes (unless someone in
> this group knows whereabouts of an engine-less DeLorean within
> trailering distance of an obscure border county in southeast North
> Carolina).
> 
> Re: my original question -- responses have been quick and informative.
> DMC enthusiasts are to be complimented.
> 
> Bill.



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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:13:26 -0400
From: "Ed Garbade" <edgarbade_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean vendors and other scammers (was paying less for quality stuff)

I say amen (except when I'm sitting on the road in the middle of nowhere at
3 AM... :-)

Ed
10541


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Espey" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
To: <checksix3_at_dml_juno.com>; "dmcnews" <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:04 PM
Subject: [DML] DeLorean vendors and other scammers (was paying less for
quality stuff)


> checksix3_at_dml_juno.com wrote:
>
> > First off, let me say that I'm all for supporting the parts vendors
> > for parts truly specific to the car. However, I'm stunned at the
> > prices being charged for commonly availible items.
>
> As one of the DeLorean vendors, I have to think that you have a pretty
> short-sighted view of things. If you don't support the vendors for ALL the
> bits and pieces you need, pretty soon you may find yourself in the
position
> where you can't get ANY DeLorean-specific parts.




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