From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1058
Date: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 6:03 PM

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There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: Re: Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block
From: hugo mederos <>

2. Fixing Faded Signal Lenses
From: "Jeremy D." <>

3. Re: Nasty gauges
From: "DMC Joe" <>

4. Re: speedo jumping
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>

5. Re: Engine Numbers & Frame Numbers
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>

6. Re: DeLorean vendors and other scammers (was paying less for qualitystuff)
From: "Walter Coe" <>

7. Re: DeLorean vendors and other scammers (was paying less for quality stuff)
From: "William F. Lane" <>

8. Stripping....A DELOREAN (What were YOU thinking?)
From: "tp8534" <>

9. Re: Engine Numbers
From: "Darren Cunningham" <>

10. Digital Dash
From: "tp8534" <>

11. Re: DMC Specialist Shops
From: "whocruiser" <>

12. Re: Re: Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block
From: "Joseph Molino" <>

13. The Resurrection of Vixen Continues...
From: "Stragand, Dave" <>

14. Glass Strength.
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

15. Last call? Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block
From: "content22207" <>

16. Re: DeLorean vendors
From: "Marvin" <>

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:36:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: hugo mederos <>
Subject: RE: Re: Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block

There is a gentlemen in N.C. forget his name.

that has I think 6 D's he is parting out you might
want to talk to him.

Might want to give a call.
see what his got.

Hugo Vin 2800

Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 14:18:33 -0400
From: "Jeremy D." <>
Subject: Fixing Faded Signal Lenses

My rear Turn Signal Lenses were quite faded. I finally fixed them
with a few craft store supplies and some patience. The result was
excellent. Youd be hard pressed to tell that my lenses are painted.
Ill go ahead and outline the fix so it can be used as a reference.

-Supplies needed-
I found these at Michael's, but most craft stores carry them.
Transparent Glass Paint (Red & Yellow)
Perm Enamel Surface Conditioner
Clean Paint Brush

Remove your tail light assemblies. Now might be a good time to
fix your tail light circuit boards. Clean the surface of the lens
thoroughly with warm soapy water and allow to completely dry.

Apply the Surface Conditioner and let dry for a few minutes.
Use a large amount of the yellow glass paint and begin
adding 1 drop of red at a time until you get the desired
color of amber. Be careful not to create air bubbles while

Make sure your tail light is perfectly level before painting.
Paint an evenly spread thick coat onto the the plastic lens.
Inspect your work for errors from every angle in good light.
Once your satisfied, let the paint dry in a non-humid place
for 3 days before reinstalling on the car. Again, make sure
the assemblies are laying perfectly level or you may end
up with undesirable runs. After 10 days of drying, the paint
hardens and becomes waterproof, as well as heat resistant.


Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:19:03 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Nasty gauges

Yes; the gauges could be more attractive for a car like the DeLorean. On the
other hand the gauges, including the instrument cluster, were manufactured
by AC Delco and are quite reliable and accurate. Most of the gauge problems
are related to the sending units and not the gauges themselves.

The fuel, temperature, voltage, tach and oil units have a less than 10%
failure rate _at_dml_ 100 k miles and the speedo has a 0% failure rate at the same

PS: I have a web page of my own now  that is updated on a daily
basis including information on our location and activities in Memphis.

DMC Joe  (my personal web page)
Memphis Updates:
Tech Information, DMC Joe Help Club, & Store
See You In Memphis!
DeLorean Website Directory

----- Original Message -----
From: "A.H. MacIntosh & Co." <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 8:53 PM
Subject: [DML] Nasty gauges

> Has anyone ever pulled the stock instruments out, and put them where they
> belong (the rubish bin)... and replaced them with quality gauges?


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 18:51:11 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>
Subject: Re: speedo jumping

If your speedo is jumping it means that one of the speedo cables has a 
"whip" to it meaning if you pull the cable out it will tend to curl or 
not lay flat and straight when you put it on the floor. This condition 
will worsen and eventually the cable will fail. The only cure is to 
replace the cable. Make sure all of the bends of the outer cable are 
as gentle as you can make them, Sometimes lubricating the cables will 
help if not too bad. If you have bought all of these parts from Grady 
call him as he offers support for all parts that he sells and he has 
an 800 #.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Hey all,
> speaking of bad gauges...
> i've noticed for a long time that at low speeds like when you are 
> creeping along, my speedometer needle jumps up and down from about 0 
to 10 or 
> 15 in a rhythmic manner.  it's really annoying


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 18:56:07 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>
Subject: Re: Engine Numbers & Frame Numbers

When I was in the warehouse in Cleavland Leif Montin showed me a 3x5 
cardfile that contained the vin #"s the frame #'s and the engine #'s 
of many Deloreans. It had the selling dealers and the origional 
owners. He said it was not complete. When I spoke to Steve Wynn about 
it he said it was to be a future project (I guess they had so many 
things to do at the time since they were in the process of 
inventorying and moving the place to Texas).
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> Based on the theory we are discussing, your car would have come off 
the line in early 81.  It probably went for it's RHD conversion and 
was completed in May 82.  579 is a low number engine, and (based on 
the cars I have looked at) I would not expect to see it in a May 82 
build car.
> The frame number is welded to a plate in the rear driver side 
corner.  You can see it from under the car looking up at the frame.  
It is probably dirty, so bring a rag!
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Darren Cunningham [mailto:darren.cunningham_at_dml_v...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 5:11 PM
> > To: dmcnews_at_dml_y...
> > Subject: Re: [DML] Engine Numbers
> <SNIP>
> > wondering if the engines were also early. You mention frame 
> > numbers - where
> > can this be found on the car and would this also be a more 
> > reliable dating
> > method than the VIN's??
> >


Message: 6
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:47:04 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: DeLorean vendors and other scammers (was paying less for qualitystuff)

> As one of the DeLorean vendors, I have to think that you have a pretty
> short-sighted view of things. If you don't support the vendors for ALL the
> bits and pieces you need...

Yes, I agree entirely.  BTW, I need some fuel, oil and windshield washer
fluid -- not to mention a little air in my tires.  Do you have any OEM
quality tire air left over from KAPAC?



Message: 7
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 13:52:18 -0700
From: "William F. Lane" <>
Subject: Re: DeLorean vendors and other scammers (was paying less for quality stuff)

Well Said James!

Bill Lane


Message: 8
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:00:00 -0000
From: "tp8534" <>
Subject: Stripping....A DELOREAN (What were YOU thinking?)

Hi folks,
     I've had a few very serious bites on my car.  It's VIN #10365,
1982 gray 5-speed.  Mechanically it's really nice, drives solid, all
leather was redone in 1997, many new parts done professionally by Dan
RC30 and P.J. Grady DeLorean.  Here's the problem: it's painted white.
 The grain appears to be in tact underneath (it's been stripped in
various places) and the paint never adhered correctly (Previous Owner
job).  It looks like white alligator skin, no luster.  People usually
balk last minute because I cannot say for certain there's no body damage.
     Anyway, wanted to throw this out.  I'm asking $13,000 for the
car.  I am willing to strip it, but I really would rather not.  I will
do the work myself so it will take a bit longer, but I'll do it if
that's what the buying DeLorean public wants.  Here's the catch: if
the stainless is not flawed with dents and Bondo, I believe the value
of the car goes up considerably.  I think the same car with stainless
panels is worth somewhere in the $16,000 range.
     I wanted your thoughts on this.  I don't want to be a jerk about
selling it, but if I go through the work to bring the SS finish back,
the value of the car goes up, right?  Just want to make sure no one
thinks I am on hard drugs with this train of thought.

VIN #10365
VIN #16816


Message: 9
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 21:56:32 +0100
From: "Darren Cunningham" <>
Subject: Re: Engine Numbers

This seems to be correct, I think that I've found the frame number - are the
actual numbers welded on to the frame?? If so, then my frame number is 155.
Does you or anyone else know what the frame numbers started at??

12180 rhd

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc A. Levy" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 2:05 PM
Subject: RE: [DML] Engine Numbers

> Based on the theory we are discussing, your car would have come off the
line in early 81.  It probably went for it's RHD conversion and was
completed in May 82.  579 is a low number engine, and (based on the cars I
have looked at) I would not expect to see it in a May 82 build car.
> The frame number is welded to a plate in the rear driver side corner.  You
can see it from under the car looking up at the frame.  It is probably
dirty, so bring a rag!


Message: 10
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:10:03 -0000
From: "tp8534" <>
Subject: Digital Dash

     I'll get some pictures on the website for everyone to see.  If
you want triple digits you'll have to take the picture for me because
at that speed I am not taking my hands off the wheel or moving focus
from the road for more than it takes to scan the speed and see how
stupid I really am.  Caveat: I'll even throw in at 88 MPH photo for
those BTTF fans.  (This will be a lot better when Dakota perfects
their HUD assembly.)  
     The digital dash has another unique feature: warnings.  Instead
of using warning lights, the numbers flash when you hit a preset
warning.  Rob has my dash configured right.  The cruise control guy
did not hook my fans back up correctly in the relay compartment and we
saw an overheat situation when they did not come on.  At 240 the
temperature started flashing, showing we were getting high.  He shut
down and coasted to avoid a car-be-que.  Might have been ok if he
didn't open the coolant tank and let it spew.  (Can you say AIR IN THE
SYSTEM?)  I've since backed that down to 225 hoping that I will be
able to catch it that much sooner.  I set the fuel gauge to flash at
35%.  I calculated about 3 gallons remaining then.  Rob set the oil
pressure gauge limit and I've not exceeded or gone under by nearly
enough to see a warning.  The tach redline is set on the bargraph
display as a vertical line.  The RPM indicator numbers will flash near
it as well.  I really would like to see the speedometer flash, but I
think you'd have to be in excess of 250 MPH.  I love my car but I have
to be honest: it wouldn't see that speed downhill in a hurricane.  Not
on 91 octane pump gas anyway....:)

VIN #10365
VIN #16816


Message: 11
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:28:32 -0000
From: "whocruiser" <>
Subject: Re: DMC Specialist Shops

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_p...> wrote:
<You are only a few hours from New York (PJ Grady) and Florida 
(forgot the shop name), both states have DMC specialists.>

The shop in Florida is The Jag Shop in Pompano Beach, owned & run by 
David Wynne, the nephew of DMC Houston's Stephen Wynne (who was just 
in town over the weekend to help out with the last minute work on my 
baby before I'm off on the road to Memphis with her.)

In gratutude for all the great work & good wishes I've had from them 
these last three years, I put together a web site for them, after I 
found out that they had not yet gotten around to making up one 
themselves (too busy keeping my daily driver running, no doubt!)  It 
can be found at:

Dan Harris  VIN# 1662  FL Tag# MY 81DMC (STILL waiting on the DMV!)


Message: 12
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:32:19 -0400
From: "Joseph Molino" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block

his name is Bob Miller and he is excellent.  Give him a call.

Joseph Molino
vin 2850
----- Original Message -----
From: "hugo mederos" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: [DML] Re: Re: Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block

> There is a gentlemen in N.C. forget his name.
> that has I think 6 D's he is parting out you might
> want to talk to him.
> 919-383-6187
> Might want to give a call.
> see what his got.
> Hugo Vin 2800


Message: 13
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:29:51 -0400
From: "Stragand, Dave" <>
Subject: The Resurrection of Vixen Continues...

Hi All,

When I started this whole deal, I promised to keep y'all informed of more than just a laundry list of updates/fixes/repairs etc. that were done to the car.  I stated that my main intent was to chronicle what such a massive undertaking would have on the person restoring it -- John Q. Mechanic.

Well, it's been a living h--l for John Q. these last couple of months, let me assure you, and with almost exactly one week left to finish, the nightmare continues.

At this point, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to 'finish' the car in time for the show.  Finish, in this sense, means completing assembly. There are still a few things left to do like reskin the seats, recover the headliners, etc.  To many, either of those would be considered a major undertaking.  However, after doing as much work as I have done to this point, any of those are seen more as a time-devouring nuisance, than a major project.  The major project becomes completion itself, and the individual tasks blur away to an unconscious stream of items needed for simply "finishing".

Triage has set in to some extent; fit & finish are unfortunate victims of the race against time.  My doors don't line up as I would like, but there simply is not enough time left to get them straightened up.  Likewise goes for my dings -- no time left to fix them.  As with most things in life, a quick-fix now equals more work later.  I'm sure I will have to realign almost everything after redoing the doors -- a task that will undoubtedly take more time to complete later than in would have if I could do it right now.  Time is the enemy, and it has beat up on me day and night for the last several months.  Beaten me, and left me exhausted, stressed-out, and numbed.

A new nervousness has set in; a great fear actually.  Since I have had the car assembled enough to actually take on the street, I have only put 2 miles on it.  Approximately 5 minutes worth of driving.  I'm very apprehensive that maybe's there's something I forgot to do... or maybe some component just isn't quite ready to go yet.  Nervousness, granted, but still it's a real feeling that's haunting me.  I suppose it's mostly the feeling of wanting everything to be 'perfect' before I'm comfortable with driving it.  Drive her, though, I must.  I still have no idea of how she is actually going to perform on a 12 hour --- yes, 12 hour --- trip to Memphis.  That's a h--l of a break-in, and a mighty large space of time for things to go wrong.  I will be doubling the mileage on the car in just five days.  It's got to get rolling some serious miles this weekend in order to break her in before that kind of a haul.  To paraphrase-quote Red from The Shawshank Redemption, "it's time to get busy living or get busy dying. G-d d-mn right."

Things going wrong I really don't mind.  I can cope with mechanical failures.  I can cope with errors on my part during assembly doing damage to the vehicle.  But not -now-.  Not on -this- trip.  There's a lot riding on this trip.  Close to three years of my life has been spent preparing for one week from today... turning the key, and heading west.  Faith in my technical abilities, pride in what I have accomplished, the respect of my girlfriend who is counting on the car getting us there (and who has put up with almost never seeing me for the last two months), and not letting down all the folks who have emailed to encourage me, saying they can't wait to see the car in Memphis.  A lot will be riding on four Yokohama AVS Intermediates next Wednesday.  The weight on both the tires and the driver has probably already exceeded the load limits, but there's no turning back now.

The final push is on, with every bit of my energies, to cross the "finish" line in Memphis and start to relax a little bit.  The trip home gives me no worries.  If something happens on the way home, I will deal with it, as I will have the time to deal with it.  Time will once again be on my side.

Stress I have, worries I carry, but an overhwhelming excitement and anticipation carry me through.  To paraphrase Red again... "I find I'm so excited I can barely sit still, or hold a thought in my head. I think it's the excitement only a free man can feel. A free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friends, and shake their hands. I hope that Memphis is as peaceful as it has been in my dreams. I hope. I hope."

-Dave Stragand
VIN #05927


Message: 14
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:57:50 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Glass Strength.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
 Iron can be mixed in glass
> to make it stronger, and this gives it a green tint.  Since the 
> windshields don't have this green tint, my theory is that they are 
not as
> strong.

Take it from me, the glass in the DeLorean is pretty strong! I 
once got into a road rage incident with a drunk driver one night 
who threw not one, but 2 beer bottles at my glass. Both the rear 
quater glass, and the window glass were fine. And for rocks 
from gravel trucks, I've only gotten 2 nicks in the glass that can 
be easily repaired. An interesting aspect of the glass is that it 
appears to be coated with something. Unless this is something 
unique to my car, if you look at the glass from an angle in the 
sunlight, you can see what almost appears to be a "webbing" 
over the glass. It's not tint, because my windows are neither 
smoked, nor dark. I always assumed that this is what keeps the 
glass so strong.

vin 6585 "X"


Message: 15
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 22:19:01 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Last call? Swapping PRV engine for Chevy or Ford small block

Moderator is soon going to tire of my predicament, especially since I 
don't even have the car yet (I'm looking, trust me). But many 
responses have raised interesting question: technical considerations 
aside, is there a "moral" or "spiritual" reason to keep cars as built 
(fuel injected PRV). I'm all hot and bothered to rip that plant out, 
yet go to *GREAT* lengths to keep my Lincolns stock (ask me which 
junkyard I spent all day last weekend in). This is more than just a 
philosophical exercise: the supply of DeLoreans is definitely a fixed 
number, that can only go down. My desire to re-engine one of these 
cars could actually be counter productive to the hobby (obviously I 
don't think so, but have received persuasive eMail's otherwise).

Speaking of eMail's, my box runneth over. I intend to reply to each, 
but it's going to take a few days. In contrast my Lincolns and AMC's 
have been rather solitary sink or swim experiences. It's *SO* 
important to take questions seriously and not underestimate effect of 
answers. Something second nature to a veteran can be a revelation to 
the novice. I lurked for several months before popping the PRV 
question, and I learned volumes. Once I did speak, was literally 
overwhelmed with replies.

Am still willing to accept your engine-less DMC castoffs. If I never 
open the rear louvers, will any of you really know what I've done back 



Message: 16
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:23:53 -0400
From: "Marvin" <>
Subject: Re: DeLorean vendors

Your comments are well thought out, worded and well accepted by the DeLorean
community who don't want to "mickey mouse" their car.

Every day there is a note from someone pee'd because the previous owner
didn't get the correct part from a recognized vendor or screwed up a repair
and now, the new owner has a sour taste in his (her) mouth about our vehicle

Yes, some parts are expensive. Face facts. This is an unusual car. We owners
are a little unusual to own a DeLorean instead of an easy fixer upper that
looks like a "plain jane" car. I just laid out $300 and change (USA$$) for a
radiator that I stupidly broke while changing a lower hose in preparing for
Memphis. Add to that, the dollar exchange _at_dml_ about 63% plus the $122.00 for
courier charges, including 15% sales taxes------ that radiator cost me about
$600.00 landed into Canada. ............BUT....I ordered it  from Rob Grady
on Monday, June 3 / 02, and got it Wed June 5 / 02 .

My friend makes radiators and has for over 30 years. My cost from him to
custom fabricate the unit would have been $500.00 to 600.00 Canadian
dollars. He needed 2 weeks to make it. (Assume it would fit correctly the
first time we try to install it)

Is it cost effective to buy outside goods? I think not!

My feelings anyway!

Marvin Stein
was an '83, was an '81, now '83 #17707
Printed Drinkware Company
924 Dundas Street


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