From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1059
Date: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:11 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re:"DeLorean" brand car stereo
From: Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>

2. window regulator/ motor assy.
From: "fluxmcfly" <bfreyguy_at_dml_aol.com>

3. Re: Rear Shocks
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com

4. Re: speedo jumping
From: Farrar Hudkins <fhudkins_at_dml_uno.edu>

5. warranty cards (was: engine and frame numbers)
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

6. t panel/door problem
From: "fluxmcfly" <bfreyguy_at_dml_aol.com>

7. Re: Rear Shocks
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

8. Swapping engines.
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

9. RE: t panel/door problem
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

10. Re: window regulator/ motor assy.
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

11. vendors and other scammers
From: "checksix3" <checksix3_at_dml_juno.com>

12. Re: DeLorean vendors and other scammers (was paying less for quality stuff)
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>

13. Re: Sanden (Sankyo) Recommended procedures for R-134 conversion
From: "Patrick Cowan" <LilRedCivic_at_dml_cox.rr.com>

14. Door/Roof seals - pop rivets or screws?
From: "dmcnorway" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>

15. Re: window regulator/ motor assy.
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

16. Re: Stripping....A DELOREAN (What were YOU thinking?)
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

17. Re: Door/Roof seals - pop rivets or screws?
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

18. Swapping engines
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

19. Re: vendors and other scammers
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

20. Removal of rusty screws
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>

21. Drivers Side Floormat needed
From: Dave Kaplan <dkaplan_at_dml_steffeninc.com>

22. Adjusting to align
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>

23. MODERATOR NOTE - List Manners
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

24. Check Your Car For Memphis
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

25. Re: Door/Roof seals - pop rivets or screws?
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 00:50:01 +0200
From: Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>
Subject: Re:"DeLorean" brand car stereo

On 05-06-2002 Christian Williams wrote:

> Does anyone know what the deal is with this?
> http://www.henkpluim.nl/Speakers.html
> Scroll all the way to the bottom of the page.

Nothing really related to our cars exept for the
brand name. The picture on the box doesn't mean anything
except that it links the speakers to an in-car application,
but NOT DMC-12 specific. In fact the depicted Subwoofer
wouldn't even fit in a standard DMC-12!

Nothing special IMHO, I mean there's a band called
DeLorean too and they probably use the car on some of
their promotional material too.

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

------------------------------




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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 23:19:22 -0000
From: "fluxmcfly" <bfreyguy_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: window regulator/ motor assy.

Does anybody know how long it would take to put a new window 
regulator/motor assy. in. I am not sure if I should plan a entire 
saturday.Any help would be very appreciated  very much.
thank you  
brian




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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:23:53 EDT
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Rear Shocks

In a message dated 6/5/02 10:46:09 AM Central Daylight Time, jwit6_at_dml_cs.com 
writes:

> The following are cross ref's I've found for rear shocks on the Delorean.
> 
> Some Cross Ref Applications are as follows:

> American Motors Concord, Spirit and AMX 1978-1983, rear All
> Cheverolet Full Sized 1949-1957 ,Rear All
> Chevrolet Corvette 1953-1962, Rear All 
> Ford Full Size 1965-1970, Rear All
> Mercury Full Size 1965-1970, Rear All 
> Nissan 2000 Passenger car (Except Roadster) Rear 1967-1971
> 
> I have seen and used the Napa 94004. They are dimensionally correct, 
> inexpensive and offer a much smoother ride than stock Girlings. The above 
> applications came from an AMC club website. 
> 
> Jim 6147
> 
> 
> 
    Jim,
           I find this information you've supplied to be very interesting. 
I've done a little bit of research work on this subject myself and I find it 
amazing that according to your info, the shocks that are used on the Chevy 
Corvette happen to be the same as those used on full sized Fords and 
Mercury's and Nissans. I wonder if the Corvette guys know about this and what 
they think  ??? It looks like they maybe need to talk to the AMC guys, huh ???

   Marty 
   Mid-State DMC



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:45:27 -0500
From: Farrar Hudkins <fhudkins_at_dml_uno.edu>
Subject: Re: speedo jumping

Andy:

I sympathize with your wavering speedometer problem as I knew a friend with a Chrysler who once had the same problem. I can't help you with your speedometer problem, but I would recommend getting under the car and make sure the cable is not too tight, not too slack, well-lubricated etc, and that it seats well on both ends. (You've probably already done that, though.) I hope that you installed a metal tie or are keeping a close eye on the "zip-tie" ("cable tie" to me), most of which as I understand are
plastic and deteriorate over time.

Regards,
Farrar
--
www.wwno.org
504-280-7000





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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 18:39:04 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: warranty cards (was: engine and frame numbers)

You're probably talking about the warranty cards - search the back issues
for the complete story on these, but in a nutshell all they contain is the
VIN, engine number, interior color, transmission type, selling dealer, and
the name and address of the original owner - NO FRAME NUMBER. The set is NOT
complete, with none of the 82's and 83's accounted for.

James

> From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Date: 5 Jun 2002 23:03:12 -0000
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1058
> 
> When I was in the warehouse in Cleavland Leif Montin showed me a 3x5
> cardfile that contained the vin #"s the frame #'s and the engine #'s
> of many Deloreans. It had the selling dealers and the origional
> owners. He said it was not complete. When I spoke to Steve Wynn about
> it he said it was to be a future project (I guess they had so many
> things to do at the time since they were in the process of
> inventorying and moving the place to Texas).
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757




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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 23:51:46 -0000
From: "fluxmcfly" <bfreyguy_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: t panel/door problem

Has anybody had any trouble with there t panels in the past,it seems 
someone has cut off the tabs on my t panel and glue it down and now 
it's peeling up in the back. I've talked to a guy who welds stainless 
steel and says he can weld new tabs on if I knew were they went and 
how big they are.If any body knows how many tabs are on the panel 
would you let me know please.hopefully I can save a few bucks,also I 
want to know when I open my door the door rups on the t panel,I took 
off the t panel and looked at it and it seems to be in good 
shape.Could the missing tabs be the problem? if anybody has any ideas 
please let me know  thank you

Brian




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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:47:28 EDT
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Rear Shocks

In a message dated 6/5/02 9:16:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wingd2_at_dml_aol.com 
writes:

<< I find it 
 amazing that according to your info, the shocks that are used on the Chevy 
 Corvette happen to be the same as those used on full sized Fords and 
 Mercury's and Nissans. >>

Marty,
I made it clear that these were not "MY" cross refs, but came from an AMC 
club web site. I have the NAPA 94004 Gas Charged Deluxe installed. I believe 
they are made by Tenneco. The same company that makes the Monroe's your club 
sells. They are dimensionally correct. They are so reasonably priced that 
next week I may install the Monroe Sensa Track units just to see the 
difference. By Knowing a cross ref application, you can  shop with almost any 
shock manufacturer to get what you want. Even fully adjustable shocks I'm 
sure. KYB, Gabriel, Carrerra, the options are there. A quick stop at your 
NAPA dealer and he can probably tell you in no uncertain terms what the 94004 
fits. I made it perfectly clear where the listed applications came from and 
advised that with anything other than the 94004, you should confirm the 
dimensions. Then you can pick the performance level you want based on the 
fit. Most of us are capable of independent thought. But there are always the 
high quality vendor solutions like PJ Grady's set up for those who just want 
to get on with it. Hope I didn't threaten anyone by making this info public.
Jim
6147



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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 03:18:56 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Swapping engines.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Moderator is soon going to tire of my predicament, especially 
since I 
> don't even have the car yet (I'm looking, trust me). But many 
> responses have raised interesting question: technical 
considerations 
> aside, is there a "moral" or "spiritual" reason to keep cars as 
built 
> (fuel injected PRV).
<SNIP>

Like I said before, when you keep the engine stock, you'll keep 
the support for it. Other than perhaps an increase in power, there 
really is no advantage to swapping the engine. Parts wise, the 
DeLorean is MUCH cheaper than other automobiles in a good 
many respects. And obvously, availability is not an issue.

Support wise, the DeLorean carries the best of any automobile 
that I've ever seen. Yeah, there's alot more people that can talk to 
you about other makes/models of cars. But since the DeLorean 
community is so much smaller, the information distributed is 
much more accurate because information distribution (mailnly 
thru the online presence of the DML) is put thru many more 
filters by direct experts for accuracy.

Is it wrong to do an engine swap in a DeLorean? I don't know, 
because that is going to be a question that only you can answer. 
After all, it doesn't matter what the opinions of others are. It is 
after all going to be your car. What I normally reccomend to 
others is to first try out the PRV. Drive it, and see what you think 
of it. Myself, I know that I want more power out of my car, so I'll 
probably just go the route of a high performance engine from 
DMC Houston. Now if I were to come across a car that had no 
engine, then I would probably consider the installation of a 
different engine. That though would be a different case. The 
price of a new PRV engine would probably outweigh the cost of a 
crossover. But that's a different situation for myself than it would 
be you. I have a DeLorean, and have it to fall back onto in the 
sense of being able to drive it.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is this: Try drving a DeLorean 
around, and see what it's like, and decide for youself how much 
you enjoy it. Not owning one, I realize that this does indeed 
present a bit of a catch-22 situation. But try to show up at a 
regional meeting to two. Especially one perhaps where DMC 
Houston might show up with one of their test cars. You may just 
find that the hi-po, or even the regular engines may just suit your 
tastes.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:31:09 -0500
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: t panel/door problem

There are four tabs.
They don't have to be precise if you are using the old plastic upper RR
screen as it is called in the manual.
I don't exactly have a picture of the tabs but I do have a picture that
shows two replacement brackets for the upper RR screen that should locate
three of the four tabs for you.
www.mindpsring.com/~kecreason/delorean
Check the pic of the brackets installed. The tabs are about an inch to two
in from each side of the big 18" bracket, about 1 in from the left edge of
the right bracket (shown). The left side tab would be identical to this
outer tab.

HTH

Stay cool.
-Kevin
#4687
Houston

-----Original Message-----
From: fluxmcfly [mailto:bfreyguy_at_dml_aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 6:52 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] t panel/door problem


Has anybody had any trouble with there t panels in the past,it seems
someone has cut off the tabs on my t panel and glue it down and now
it's peeling up in the back. 



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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:32:53 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: window regulator/ motor assy.

> Does anybody know how long it would take to put a new window
> regulator/motor assy in.

On your first one it is an all day job.  A local mechanic that has done a
few told me that for him it is always an all day job.  I watched DMC Joe
install one start to finish in less than an hour.  He would have gone a lot
faster if he weren't explaining the procedure to a bunch of people watching.

I have installed 4 now and I can tell you that the heavy duty window
regulators are a terrible fit.  They bind and flex.  The brackets that they
come with do not line up properly.  My installation method involves making
new brackets and changing the shape of the tube slightly.  Now both windows
on my daily driver work flawlessly even WITHOUT the inner felt holding the
window in place.  This involved modifications to both window tracks as well.
I've taken plenty of photos of my last installation and made two extra sets
of brackets so that I will be able to install new regulators without doing
all the measuring & fitting again.  But if you wait for me to publish all
this on a web page, it might take a few months.  :-)

While you are in the door, I highly recommend replacing the velcro strips
that protects the glass from the outer door skin.  The adhesive on those
come loose with age and fall out.  Then the glass gets scratched.  Just go
to your local old lady sewing shop and buy a few feet of 1.5" wide velcro.
Either get the peel & stick stuff or (what I did) buy the sew-on variety and
glue it on with 3M Super Weather Strip Adhesive.  One strip protects the
outside surface of the glass, and the other (optional) you glue over the
inner window fuzz to protect the inside of the glass.  You will have to buy
both halves of the velcro, but you only use the soft fuzzy side.  It's kinda
funny that DeLoreans were built with velcro to pad the glass.  It adds to
the kit car reputation.

Walt




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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 04:05:09 -0000
From: "checksix3" <checksix3_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: vendors and other scammers

>>>Your comments are well thought out, worded and well accepted by 
the DeLorean community who don't want to "mickey mouse" their car.<<<

Excuse me? As a former machine design and materials engineer for 20 
years, EE and machinist now turned professional pilot operating the 
B737-500 and Lear 35, an aircraft mechanic and owner of two high 
performance aircraft (one a former military light attack jet), I can 
assure you the words "mickey mouse" are not in my vocabulary. Every 
modification I make, to everything I own, is based on that 
experience. I suspect future owners of my car will appreciate my 
efforts.

No offense to those folks, but don't lump me in with the backyard 
mechanics and college students who often can't diagnose and repair 
(let alone re-engineer) the simplest of problems. While I do value 
the vendors and some of the talent that posts here, the care and 
feeding of this vehicle isn't exactly rocket science.

Unusual car? Maybe, but in many cases not so unusual parts. For 
example, the generic parts I mentioned are identical (if not 
superior) to what the vendors offer. Unless they have manufacturing 
facilities out back making, for example, silicone hose (they don't), 
they get it from the same places you and I can and then mark it way 
up. Nothing wrong with that, its a free market. You're the one who 
must decide if you're going to pay it.

You need to remember its only a car, and not a very good one at that. 
Poorly desigend and built, it desperately needs attention. That means 
better materials and engineering, not patchwork fixes to shore up the 
original poor design. I commend the vendors for doing some of this 
work but as I pointed out to James, its not my responsibility to 
finance or perpetrate this car's continued exsistence, nor the 
companies who support it. My responsibility is first and foremost to 
myself, especially with regard to my coin.

I'll deal with the vendors when its in *my* best interests, not 
theirs. They are, after all, not in this for some noble cause but to 
take our money, as much as we will give them. If they fail, others 
will take their place. Whats DMC going to do anyway? Shut down and be 
stuck with a warehouse full of parts? No, they'll learn they must at 
least compete on the generics.  

As for your $600 radiator mishap, I suggest you remember when it 
comes to money it isn't what one makes, its what one keeps. I never 
lose sight of this, otherwise I couldn't afford to own such frivolous 
toys.

My experience with "type" clubs is that they exsist to help reduce 
costs while maintaining an equivalent level of quality and safety. 
In the business of aircraft onwership, this is crucial. I regret 
taking that approach here and will refrain from offering any further 
information in the future. If you're personaly not interested in 
reducing costs, better engineering and materials, improved SS fuel 
baffles, intelligent door locking and release systems, real 
electrical improvements, electronic engine management and monitoring 
as well as other engineering that can be applied, thats fine by me.

If you choose to retain the stock "attributes" of your car (with all 
the hassles that entails) for purists reasons, thats certainly your 
right and also OK by me. Just don't slam those of us who prefer 
putting our hard earned cash into something other than a vendor's 
pocket when, in many cases, we have the skills to do better for less. 






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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 00:31:48 -0400
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean vendors and other scammers (was paying less for quality stuff)

I disagree with James and many others (as usual).

If a vendor can not afford to finance development, then the vendor should

I think that it is wrong and insulting to imply that vendors need to
overcharge on the smaller parts in order to afford to R&D new parts.  If
you cannot afford R&D legitimately, and need to R&D to survive, then you
should not be in business.  

Also, I seriously wonder what I'm paying for when I buy a newly developed
part.  Are you saying that I am not paying for R&D of the part becuase
I've already paid for that when I bought some hose?  I refuse to believe
that any vendors business would cease if we stop buying DMC oil filters. 
Plus, if you can't be innovative and offer something better than the
competition, then don't, and we'll just buy the better part elsewhere.

I will say that vendors are very useful when you need to get the right
part fast.  One phone call and two days of shipping, and the part's at
your door.  If someone wants to go out and find a cheaper cross
reference, that's there prerogative... and if it works then hooray.  If
not, then better luck next time.  On the same subject, I will say that (i
think) it's rude to ask a vendor where you can buy one of his parts
elsewhere.  If you can't do the legwork, then just pay the convenience
fee and buy the part from the vendor.

I know that DMC, grady, and specialtauto (and I'm sure others...) have
been innovative in making their own parts.  I've only seen specialtauto
with a aftermarket fuse box, and that's why they're going to get my
business for a fuse box.

I'm also a little upset that James is claiming that their help line,
experience, and guidance is so amazing.  I bought an $180 antenna from
DMC, and when it didn't fit correctly/fit differently, I called DMC to
ask what they knew about it.  I just wanted to know if the parts were on
the antenna correctly.  I got an "You can probably figure it out".  I do
not consider great service when someone will not pull a part off off the
shelf for 5 minutes and look at it to help me--  especially for a part I
purchased from them!

I am not implying that their service (or anyone's), in general, is not
good... or even exemplary.  Merely that James has if you claim that
raised prices are partially due to customer service with extensive
experience and guidance, there should definitely be experience and
guidance for these parts.  

It sounds like James's post is a threat more than friendly words of
advice.  "Buy from us or we won't do anything else for you." is not a
valuable business practice and I'm insulted by it.


Jim 1537
  


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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 02:30:13 -0400
From: "Patrick Cowan" <LilRedCivic_at_dml_cox.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Sanden (Sankyo) Recommended procedures for R-134 conversion

if you buy a kit, BUYER BEWARE! at my local garage/previous employment, we
had NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS with the R134 Retro Kits made by CARQUEST. almost
EVERY CAR we applied it to, didnt work correctly. for instance, every piece
that they sent in the kit for my 87 camaro was either wrong, or defective.
go with a good namebrand...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stragand, Dave" <dave.stragand_at_dml_ketchum.com>
To: "DMC News (E-mail)" <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:06 AM
Subject: [DML] Sanden (Sankyo) Recommended procedures for R-134 conversion


> There has always been a lot of talk about R-12 vs. R-134.  Here's what
Sanden/Sankyo (the manufaturer of the DMC AC compressor, has to say:
>
> Recommended Procedures for Sanden R-12 Compressors Retrofitted with R134a



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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 07:18:30 -0000
From: "dmcnorway" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>
Subject: Door/Roof seals - pop rivets or screws?

Hi,
I need some suggestions on how to fasten the door/roof seal. Yes, I 
know that you have to drill out the old pop rivets, take of the T-
panel off, and preferably have the torsion bars out when you drill.
 
But - is it possible to use other fasteners than new pop rivets? 
 
I'm already on my 2nd set of door/roof seals, (don't ask me why!) and 
I'm worried about creating a too big hole for the pop rivets in the 
door itself since I'm going to drill the pop rivets out once again. 
 
Also, I would like to make this a practical and easy solution, so if 
I ever have to do this again, all I have to do is unscrew the screws 
with no drilling necessary!
 
So, is it possible to use small stainless screws instead of poprivets 
to fasten the door/roof seals. Will they hold? 
 
I'm aware that this isn't the correct factory procedure and would 
alter the appearance a bit, but has anyone else tried this? 
 
If so, was it successfull, and what sizes did you use for the screws?
 
Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway
 
VIN # 06759




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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 03:07:53 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: window regulator/ motor assy.

The very first window motor that I replaced back in 87 took me the better
part of an entire day. I can now do the same procedure in less than 20
minutes including removing and replacing the interior door panels and
hardware.

Just plan on a day or weekend and take your time. Plan on lots of
frustration, confusion, and saying:  there is no way these dam! things (new
regulators) are going to go into the door interior. One tip is to put duct
tape around the door interior stainless cutouts. If not, you could be
bleeding while you are cursing.

DMC Joe  http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/dmcjoe.html
Memphis Updates: http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/home.html
Tech Information, DMC Joe Help Club, & Store
See You In Memphis!
http://shopping.oraclesmallbusiness.com/dsvstore
DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv

----- Original Message -----
From: "fluxmcfly" <bfreyguy_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 7:19 PM
Subject: [DML] window regulator/ motor assy.


> Does anybody know how long it would take to put a new window
> regulator/motor assy. in. I am not sure if I should plan a entire
> saturday.Any help would be very 



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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:58:35 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Stripping....A DELOREAN (What were YOU thinking?)

Be careful before deciding to go back to S/S. It could be the case 
that one of the panels was damaged and after repairing it the shop 
painted the whole car. Expect to regrain the car. An unpainted 
Delorean is worth more than a badly painted Delorean mainly because of 
the bad job and the uncertainty of the condition of all of the S/S 
panels. The value is also greatly affected by the mechanical condition 
and the cosmetic appeal of the interior.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "tp8534" <mpolans_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>      I've had a few very serious bites on my car.  It's VIN #10365,
> 1982 gray 5-speed.  Mechanically it's really nice, drives solid, all
> leather was redone in 1997, many new parts done professionally by 
Dan
> RC30 and P.J. Grady DeLorean.  Here's the problem: it's painted 
white.



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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 14:27:46 -0000
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Door/Roof seals - pop rivets or screws?

At our tech session here last month, we watched Don Steger replace 
the upper door seals using very short screws WITH THE POINTS GROUND 
OFF. Nothing special about them except the size. In a pinch I'm sure 
he'd be glad to sell you a set. You're right - it's much easier with 
the t-panel removed. They did not remove the torsion bars, but you do 
need to be very careful where you throw the drill around. 

Dave Swingle

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "dmcnorway" <delorean_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I need some suggestions on how to fasten the door/roof seal. Yes, I 
> know that you have to drill out the old pop rivets, take of the T-
> panel off, and preferably have the torsion bars out when you drill.
>  
> But - is it possible to use other fasteners than new pop rivets? 
>  
> I'm already on my 2nd set of door/roof seals, (don't ask me why!) 
and 




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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:42:18 EDT
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Swapping engines


    Aside from stop light to stop light acceleration, there isn't any benefit 
to swapping the PRV V-6 engine out of the DMC. The DeLorean engine is 
reliable and easy to maintain. The myth is that the PRV in the DeLorean is a 
POS...not true. 
    
    Renault Formula One Racing won many races around the world with PRV 
racing variant. That engine redlined at 10,000 RPM and made over 490 HP.

    The early PRV engines in the Volvo 260s from the mid '70s had issues 
surrounding oil flow delivery around the cams. PRV factory engineers over in 
France corrected the issue long before the DMC ever made it into production.

    Another myth surrounds the BOSCH K-Jetronic fuel injection in the 
DeLorean PRV engine. The fuel system is reliable and maintenance free, 
however it will fail if the car is not driven...plain and simple. Think about 
those beautiful supermodels...they get pissed off, temperamental, demanding, 
and cranky if you quit paying attention to them...if you find one that 
isn't...give me her name. 

    The DeLorean car BOSCH fuel system does not like long term storage and 
will act the same way. Long term, incorrect storage will wreak havoc on ANY 
car. 

    E.G. The same BOSCH fuel injection system on the DeLorean is also on late 
model Lamborghini Countach...twice over. Two fuel distributors, two cold 
start injectors, two accumulators etc. The Lamborghini, a very fast, 
unrefined, unreliable, pain in the ass to drive and operate, and they usually 
have very low miles on the odometer. There is an owner near me with 90,000 
miles on his Countach, however he has taken the effort to drive the car 
almost everyday. He explained that most of the Lambo car owners let them sit 
for long periods without starting them or adding a fuel stabilizer. The same 
problems on the Countach list are asked here on the DML. The issue arises 
from deteriorated fuel system from improper long term storage.

    The PRV engine is a strong motor. The DeLorean specialists can clarify 
any of your questions about high mileage capabilities. To date I do not 
remember reading anywhere on this list or in DeLorean World magazine about 
engine failure, aside from overheating the engine and warping the heads & 
damaging the headgaskets...that is a direct result of a damaged cooling 
system (bad hoses, belts, radiator, waterpump) and not changing the oil every 
3,000 miles with a correct filter.

    The no start issues, incorrect idle, etc., the multitude of problems 
about DeLorean engine reliability on this DML list is attributed to incorrect 
repair, incorrect parts, incorrect long term storage, incorrect methods of 
awakening a car back to life after long term storage, etc., and not 
maintaining the car properly...unfortunately many owners are driving around 
with an incorrect oil filter, and a worn out, 21 year old, corroded, cooling 
system with duct tape keeping the hoses together. Not worry because the 
DeLorean specialists have just about every part for the DeLorean available.

    Here are some web pages over in Europe devoted to the PRV engine:

http://www.simon-auto.de/site/10.html

Here you can upgrade the engine's performance to suit your needs...if that is 
what you're after.

http://www.douvrinprv.com/ 

    The second page has many links to different suppliers and high 
performance dealers.

    To summarize, the PRV engine issues are not some inherent design flaws or 
poor planning by the Renault engineers...the owners issues you read & hear 
about here on the DML arise from lack of proper maintenance & a general 
unfamiliarity with the engine operation and basic maintenance requirements. 

    If you spend some time reading about the engine (reviewing your budget & 
finances as well) and read how to maintain the car properly, buying the 
correct parts from a DeLorean specialist will keep a smile on your face.
    
Best Wishes,
Michael Pack 




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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 08:34:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: vendors and other scammers

I seems that from "day one" there have been two very
VOCAL camps to which many DeLorean owners belong.  One
is the, for lack of better words "purist" camp.  The
other is the "modifiers".  I suspect there is a third
group that is larger than either of these but, perhaps
unfortunately, is less vocal.  I'll call these folks
the "silent majority".

Since I dislike generalizations, I'll use myself to
describe this latter group.  I don't go in for MAJOR
appearance changes. I pretty much want my car to look
like DeLoreans did when they came from the factory. 
Having said that, I admit to being  quite willing to
install things that make my car  run better; ie.,
Zilla products, triple core radiator, self-bleeder, 
turbos, etc., etc.   

Yes, I generally  purchase from the standard DeLorean
vendors, and, yes, often that is because of
convenience.  Sometimes I wonder if I can do better,
pricewise, if I were to go elsewhere.  Often I don't
even know where "elsewhere" is!  

Convenience has a value to me.  (As a retailer who
also has to compete with the internet discounters, I
realize that the value of my services is not set by
me, but by my customers.)  I also do not have
unlimited funds and, thus, would appreciate knowing of
equal or better products and lesser cost.    

The DeLorean community has two extremely wonderful
attributes.  It is willing to share information and it
includes some VERY talented people.  ANYTHING that
interferes with that exchange of information is a big
loss to a lot of us.  Over the years we have lost
input from some people who got upset when personally
challenged.  That is extremely unfortunate.  All of us
lose when that happens.

Perhaps we all (yes, myself included) need to think
twice before hitting the "send" key.  Information is
one thing - opinions which cast aspersions are
another.  

Let's all do WHATEVER it takes to keep the INFORMATION
pipeline flowing with ALL ideas.

Dick Ryan



--- checksix3 <checksix3_at_dml_juno.com> wrote:
      {BIG SNIP}
I regret 
> taking that approach here and will refrain from
> offering any further 
> information in the future. If you're personaly not
> interested in 
> reducing costs, better engineering and materials,
> improved SS fuel 
> baffles, intelligent door locking and release
> systems, real 
> electrical improvements, electronic engine
> management and monitoring 
> as well as other engineering that can be applied,
> thats fine by me.
    {BIG SNIP}


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http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com



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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:24:50 +0200
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>
Subject: Removal of rusty screws

Hm - I tried to remove the rusty screws under the DeLorean (the screws securing the rocker panels) with no luck.
How do you loosen these? They are very hard to get to, the heads are very flat and the pattern almost none. My screwdriver can't get a good grip. Please advise.

Stian Birkeland
Norway
VIN # 06759



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 09:45:47 -0500
From: Dave Kaplan <dkaplan_at_dml_steffeninc.com>
Subject: Drivers Side Floormat needed

I find myself needing a drivers side black floor mat. So far I have only 
been able to find them sold in sets. Is there someone out there that has a 
driver side for sale or someone who needs a passenger side so we can split 
an order?

Dave
Sioux City, IA
AT88MPH (Iowa Plate) 




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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 16:37:11 +0200
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>
Subject: Adjusting to align

Hi,
I need some detailed instructions on how to adjust the fenders and quarterpanels in order to align them to the doors. My doors are adjusted and they open and close perfectly. Still, there is a small difference of about 2-3cm so when you view the DeLorean from the front, you can see that the doors go out somewhat wider than the panels. It is really an irritating gap which I want to correct a.s.a.p.

Yes, I do have the Workshop Manual, but to tell the truth, it isn't much of a help. The instructions are very general indeed. So, if there's anyone out there who has done this and want to help me, please write a detailed instruction on how to adjust the front fender and quarterpanel in order to align them to the doors. What do you need to loose/remove?

I also need a detailed description on how to adjust the front fascia in order to get it as close to the fender edge as possible. Needless to say, there is a gap here too. You can actually see the bracket + screws!

Looking forward to an amusing adjustment month! :-)

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 21:09:34 -0000
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: MODERATOR NOTE - List Manners

A couple of the current discussion are getting a little pithy, to say 
the least. I'll let this go on (it IS pretty interesting) but keep in 
mind that anything with a hint of personal attack will hit the floor.

Thanks

Dave 




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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:51:00 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Check Your Car For Memphis

Just a reminder that many owners will soon be taking a long drive to 
Memphis. It is a very good idea to check on some things on the car 
before a long drive. Start with examining the tires for tread, cuts, 
bumps and air pressure. Don't forget the spare. Now check the fluids 
including the coolant, engine oil, clutch and brake levels, final 
drive if automatic, and washer fluid. Wiper blades, signal and brake 
lights, and headlights. Pack some extra fuses and whatever spare parts 
you have and think you might need. Take enough tools to do minor 
repairs. Even if you may not need help if you are traveling with 
others then you may have what someone else may need. Take a large 
plastic bag for the tire (if you have to change it) and a blanket to 
lay on. I am sure you can make up your own list of must have items. 
For many it will be the longest trip the car will make this year and 
some owners don't take as good care of them as many who are on this 
list. It will be very hard to get any parts as many of the venders 
will be closed during the show so if anyone needs any emergency parts 
there may be trouble in getting them so plan ahead. It is probably a 
good idea to caravan with others so if anything does happen there is a 
chance of getting help and maybe parts. The Family Band radios are a 
real good idea so you can keep in touch while driving with others in 
the caravan. (Take extra batteries).
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757  




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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:39:31 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Door/Roof seals - pop rivets or screws?

I'm planning on drilling out the rivets on mine while I have the door off
the car.  And like you, I don't want to replace the seal using rivets
either, so I have thought about this a lot. (maybe too much).

My favorite idea so far is elongating the rivet holes making the new side of
the holes big enough to take the head of a screw (just like the back of a
picture frame meant to slide over a nail head).  Then for screws use small
stainless steel carriage bolts.  These have square shafts at the base of the
head that would hold into what is left of the original rivet hole without
spinning.  Then you align the holes in the gasket over the carriage bolts
and fasten with nuts from the bottom.  The advantage to this is that it
would be very simple & easy to change the gasket afterwards.  If a thread
strips, you could always drop a new carriage bolt in there.

Another maybe not so crazy idea is to use 3M emblem tape.  I used a 1" wide
strip of this (trimmed down a little) to put my door molding back on.  I
test fitted the molding that goes rearward of the door handle using just a
small piece of this tape.  I tried to pull it off the next day and found
that it was on there better than the factory original tape.  I had to use
solvents to get it all off.  (Both the door and the molding.)  Perhaps a
strip of this would hold the door gasket on?  I wouldn't try this using the
OEM configuration gasket since the stainless bracket would be useless.
Perhaps this would work making a gasket from a thick/stiff strip of rubber.
Maybe a wide piece of aftermarket door molding would work well here (and
look stylish too :-)

Walt




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