From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1060
Date: Thursday, June 06, 2002 5:32 PM

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There are 8 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Car sometimes dies, won't start, click click click from relays
From: "argent486" <argentum_at_dml_hit.net>

2. NCDMC Tech Day?
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

3. DeLorean for sale
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>

4. Re: vendors are not scammers my friend
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

5. Re: DeLorean vendors and other scammers (was paying less for quality stuff)
From: RaistsApprentice_at_dml_aol.com

6. Re: vendors and other scammers
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

7. Re: Swapping engines
From: Louie G <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>

8. Re: Rear Shocks (Long)
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 18:02:11 -0000
From: "argent486" <argentum_at_dml_hit.net>
Subject: Car sometimes dies, won't start, click click click from relays

Hello all,

Working on my car this past month has been fun but now I'm starting 
to have an itch to get this thing on the road. It seems to decide 
whether it wants to run one day and sleep the next. On some occasions 
including today it starts fine, runs for a minute then dies. Getting 
it started after that is about impossible. I already have a fuel 
filter and accumulator to change this weekend. My concern is a click 
click click (about a second apart) from the relay compartment when it 
does not start. On first crank I can also hear the fuel pump run, but 
after that I don't hear it again. I'm sure my accumulator is going 
out, but is the relay clicking normal? Could one of them be shutting 
off my fuel pump as well???

Also up there with stupid things to do... I was replacing my 
passenger door window motor last night. Got it out ok but the window 
was pulled from the tracks and now sits in the bottom of the door. 
Any procedure to start it back up from the bottom?

Safe travel to all for the Memphis show! Wish I could come along but 
have to work.

Matt Metzinger
VIN #961 - KS TAG "TIMELES" 




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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:07:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: NCDMC Tech Day?

I haven't heard back from Ken Montgomery about the planned Tech Day in
northern California with Don Steger. If anyone has any info, please let me
know.

-Christian




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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:43:58 -0400
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: DeLorean for sale

Hello all!
I need to sell my DeLorean. It is a November '81 model, with power antenna
in the back, gray interior, stainless exterior and automatic transmission. I
have invested over $10.000 in the car over the last two years. Things that I
replaced are: engine (about 25k miles on it), complete new transmission
including the governor (about 1500 miles on it), entire fuel system (all
lines, accumulator, pump, filter), entire cooling system (hoses, radiator),
entire electrical system in the engine compartment, new Yokohama tires, and
lots of other things I can't remember of at the moment.
Everything works on the car including all the gauges and lights. The A/C
compressor has been rebuilt and the system has been converted to R-134a. I
blows cold air. The car runs perfectly and starts right up. It runs nice and
cool even in heavy stop-and-go Florida traffic.
Things that are wrong with the car: rear speakers will need to be replaced -
I'm including a new set of Pioneers, driver's side widow works but makes
noise if you hold the button too long while closing, the dash is cracked and
discolored from Florida sun but is covered with a custom fit dash mat, there
is some cracking in the seats.
The car has just over 56k miles on it and at the moment it is my only car.
It is located in Clearwater, FL. I can arrange shipping to anywhere in the
world or you can fly in and drive it home. The price is $17,500
The reason why I have to sell the car is that I'm moving to Europe and it
will be way to expensive to take it with me.
If interested my email is: tomciodmc(AT)poczta.onet.pl, my home phone (727)
723-7363, or you can talk to me in Memphis. I will not be driving my
DeLorean to the show, but I will be able to answer all your questions.
Pictures available by request.

Tom Niemczewski
tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl
vin 06298 (FOR SALE)

PS. I tried posting to the BuyNSell section on the DMC News web site, but it
seems that my ad never made it.




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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:37:21 EDT
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: vendors are not scammers my friend



    Installing cheap or inferior parts doesn't work.  However if you want to 
try it by all means go for it! 

    There has been a number of DeLorean service centers that quickly opened 
and quickly closed after the DeLorean factory closed in 1982. Why did they 
close? Lack of business? ...I doubt it. There were more cars on the road 
then, driven everyday, than today.

    The DeLorean specialists available PJ Grady, DMCH, DeLorean One, 
DMCenter, Baurle, Joe Lore, etc., are all very talented specialist's that 
have been in business longer than any of the fly by night centers that 
quickly became entangled with the EPA and who knows what else.

    I agree with RadDad (Mr. Dick Ryan) as I am a purist to a degree when it 
come to the DeLorean...why mess up a beautiful design & concept...inside and 
outside?

    I'm not trying to be didactic, as we all have different views & personal 
opinion about the car.

    However, I am willing to & have installed all the Zilla products, a new 
cooling system, and DeLoreanOne Relay Upgrade kit and whatever products that 
the DeLorean specialist recommend. 

    In addition, the material & parts that the specialist's sell, add to my 
bottom line. My bottom line is that with this particular car, it isn't work 
the aggravation, time, wasted expense ("it's what you keep" ) driving all 
over asking the same damn questions to a clueless parts salesman that has no 
interest in my car or my interest. And 99% of the time they won't have what 
you are looking for...What a waste of time and money, in addition to the 
incubus of fear that the "make do" part that they sell will work after you 
install it.

    However, If you call the DeLorean specialists, display some couth & 
decorum, and you are willing to understand that they are there to assist you. 
They are not a consortium of ignoble, perfunctory, Machiavellian, repugnant 
mechanics.

    They are a group of sophisticated, dedicated, fastidious, bona fide, 
eminent professionals that care more for the DeLorean car than John DeLorean 
did, and many of the owners care for their own DeLorean.

Best Regards,
Michael Pack



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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:08:28 -0400
From: RaistsApprentice_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: DeLorean vendors and other scammers (was paying less for quality stuff)


 There's a little phrase I find appropriate for these situations: "Whatever the market will bear." 
 And that's my two cents.



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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 20:15:30 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: vendors and other scammers

Ouch! Don't just kick me once, but twice here! Yes, the DeLorean 
is a car that did leave the assembly line with a quirk or two, but it 
is nothing that is poorly designed. Not just because I own one, 
but compared to other cars, it is a damn fine vehicle! It has a 
great design, and not all that many flaws. What car ever built 
hasn't had any recalls? And what flaws and quirks the DeLorean 
has, really are not all that bad. Hey, even my '97 Hyundai used 
pop-rivets to hold in/connect it's 3rd brake light. And believe me 
slightly bending the front facia with a screwdriver to remove 
headlights is absolutely nothing compared to having to pull an 
entire composite headlamp just to change a capsule bulb on a 
Chevy!

As for being a shadetree mechanic, I didn't realize that made me 
a bad person. That and the fact that I'm unable to source my own 
parts. No, I don't the first thing about aircraft, no do I have an 
engineering degree. So when I need to buy heavier duty parts, I 
go thru a DeLorean vendor. The extra price I have to pay for 
things such as silicone hoses, rebuilt clutch master cylinders, 
brake calipers, etc... more than pays for itself. After all, I don't 
need to drive all around town, and call everywhere around the 
world hoping to buy parts that will fit, and/or dealing with people 
that I absolutely loath who always want to give me their views 
and opinions about my car. The vendors all take care of all this 
for me by doing the footwork. And even if I wanted to, I really don't 
have the time with my job. What free time that I do make for my 
car I would rather put into installing and repairing parts rather 
then hunting them down. And just because I myself, and others 
do the majority of work on our own cars doesn't mean that we're 
poor, cheap or stupid. I do my own work, and I always make sure 
that I use the proper parts and tools for the job. Just because I 
may not be rolling it dough doesn't mean that I can't afford parts, 
or have the know-how on how to install them.

Plus, the price pays for improved, and reproduction parts. When i 
first came onto the DML, if you had a hissing mode switch, you 
had to buy a new one. The switches were rare, and the prices 
were high. Now, the part to repair it is only $25. Fuel distributors 
that used to go for over $1K+ can now be had for half the price. 
Platic door handles that were prone to breaking now have metal 
replacement parts. My old muffler bracket that snapped is now 
replaced with a heavier duty metal one. Shock and spring kits, 
louvre spines, reproduction side stripes, dome lights,over heat 
protectors, and one of the biggest of all; window switches! None 
of these items were available just a few years ago, but they are 
here now because of developement by vendors.

When you think about it, it is amazing that products like these 
even exist. After all, by all estimates, only 6,000-7,000 people are 
going to be the only ones who are targeted for the market. And 
even then, that's no garuntee that they're going to purchase. 
Some may not need these parts, and others may not want them. 
So the extra price paid on, shall we say more "popular" items, or 
ones that are in demand will cover the losses, if not in some 
cases lessen them. Although it is true that the price of other 
items has increased a bit. As far as price markup on trivial items 
such as hoses and what not, the price isn't a big deal. Sure it 
may cost a little extra, but that's not a problem for myself that I've 
seen so far.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 13:05:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louie G <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping engines

Hey Bill,
  Have you driven a DeLorean yet? They really are quite peppy cars. I grin from ear to ear every time I take mine out for a spin. Yes, it won't blow away my Dads Boss 302 Mustang, but even my dad, the hardened muscle car fan, gets more enjoyment out of driving my D than his Mustang. Once I get my D completely upgraded, I'm sure I'll start working on the performance aspect. But until then, it's more than enough fun to drive. :-)

  What I suggest is you start going to some meets, and getting to know some local owners. There are some really great guys in NC. My car is in Sanford, NC... out in the middle of nowhere too. But thanks to this list, and several helpful owners, I have no worries about keeping my car on the road. 
   
  The PRV engine is actually the most reliable part of the car. If it isn't ignored, you'll never have any problems from it. The DeLoreans reliability problems come from the actual DeLorean-specific parts... such as the electrical, cooling, and (hydraulic) clutch systems. There really is no benefit of replacing the engine in the D. It's the best part of the car! And if you want more power, there are plenty of ways to do that. Be it from DMC-Houstons engine upgrades, to free-flow exhaust sytems, performance airboxes, and twin turbos. Those would probably actually be cheaper (and easier!) to do to the car than an engine swap.
  
  And don't worry about finding someone to work on your car. I've taken mine to a regular garage in my town, and they had no problems with it. If you have all of the workshop manuals, anyone can work on your car. Good luck on your path to ownership! Let me know if I can be of any help.

-Louie Golden
#10115 Sanford, NC

_____________________________________________________________
It's not too late to get your 1/18 scale Diecast DeLorean model! To order, call 800/USA-DMC1 or visit our online store at http://www.delorean.com

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Promote your group and strengthen ties to your members with email_at_dml_yourgroup.org by Everyone.net  http://www.everyone.net/?btn=tag



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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:56:09 EDT
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Rear Shocks (Long)

In a message dated 6/6/02 9:17:17 AM Central Daylight Time, jwit6_at_dml_cs.com 
writes:

> Marty,
> I made it clear that these were not "MY" cross refs, but came from an AMC 
> club web site. I have the NAPA 94004 Gas Charged Deluxe installed. I 
> believe 
> they are made by Tenneco. The same company that makes the Monroe's your 
> club sells. They are dimensionally correct. They are so reasonably priced 
> that 
> next week I may install the Monroe Sensa Track units just to see the 
> difference. By Knowing a cross ref application, you can shop with almost 
> any 
> shock manufacturer to get what you want. Even fully adjustable shocks I'm 
> sure. KYB, Gabriel, Carrerra, the options are there
> 

    Jim,
  
  My first question is what the heck does an "AMC" club web site know about 
the Delorean automobile and what parts will and will not work on our cars ? I 
don't even understand your logic in suggesting we use AMC suspension parts, 
other then maybe it's another auto company that also no longer exists ?

   Now if you had told me you took an original Girling shock and got all the 
dimensional information from it and then compared it to NAPA's shock specs 
and found the NAPA 94004 you are using is dimensionally the same and then 
thru back checking you found that NAPA says it also fits these different 
cars, then I would understand. Having dealt with NAPA in the past, I would 
also understand NAPA saying that the shock they supply for the full size 
Fords and Mercury is also the same shock they supply to the Corvette guys. I 
wonder how many Corvettes are actually running NAPA shocks ???

  Anyway, to post to the list that you have found a shock number "whatever" 
that you have been able to make work on your car is fine, I'm all for 
modifying and upgrading our cars and you seem to be very skillful at doing 
the same and sharing this information, which is great. Where the problems 
start is when other guys on the list decide to just go to NAPA or their local 
autos parts place and they just tell the guy "Give me a set of shocks for a 
Full Sized Ford or a Corvette" or whatever they pull from the info posted on 
the mailing list and then they get them home and try and install them. The 
next thing we see on the list is "Hey, I bought these parts that were posted 
to the DML and they don't work. What do I do ?"  Or I get a call that says 
"Hey, I bought these shocks that were posted to the DML, can you send me a 
set of collars to make them work ?"  I then have to explain that my 
experience with shocks is that the methods used and the tolerances they are 
manufactured too vary greatly, not only from company to company but from 
shock to shock also. Because of this each set of shocks requires a different 
style or type or size of collar to make it work correctly. What this all 
means in the end is, "Sorry, that set of shocks you just bought at your local 
auto parts store actually won't just bolt on, you will have to have some 
parts custom made to make them work. And then when you get that all done and 
everything installed, we still won't know what kind of ride quality you will 
have until you take the car out and test it." All of a sudden their "cheap" 
upgrade just got expensive, and time consuming, and in the end they may still 
end up unhappy with the final results. Kinda like you suggest you may be, if 
you're now planning on trying a different set of shocks from what you just 
installed.

   But, you are correct. To find shocks that "dimensionally" are correct is 
not a real problem. I have a garage full of KYB and Gabriel and Carrerra and 
other brands of shocks that are "dimensionally" correct and that I have fit 
and run on my Delorean in the past. It's just a matter of designing and 
making the adapters/collars and other parts you need to make the specific 
shock you happen to pick fit the Delorean suspension. The easy part is 
finding a shock that will physically fit in the place it has to go. The hard 
part is finding a shock with the internal dampening and rebound valveing that 
will give the ride quality you are looking for while at the same time 
maintaining control of the cars suspension.
  And ride quality is a subjective thing also. What may feel great to one 
person is either way too soft or too hard or to harsh to another. And many 
things other then shocks also fit in to this equation, like springs and 
suspension bushings and ride height and alignment and even things like tires 
brands and sizes and tire pressures. Want to change the handling and ride of 
your Delorean, just go out and add or remove some air from the tires. It's 
amazing the difference it makes.

  Jim, I understand and encourage "independent thought," especially when it 
comes to working on our Deloreans, no problems. And making any information 
you have about our cars and parts "public" is fine by me. My concern is that 
the information that is supplied is as correct and complete as we can make it 
for the members of the mailing list and that they understand what they are 
getting into when they consider undertaking this type of project.

    Will you be in Memphis ? I'd love to sit down and talk some "shop" with 
you sometime.

    Marty




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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