From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1066
Date: Monday, June 10, 2002 7:01 AM

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There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Stainless fuel lines
From: "johnsdmc12" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>

2. Re: Shocks - vendors and other scammers
From: "dmcman82" <dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com>

3. Re: door jamming
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

4. Re: Sunstar Gold DeLorean
From: Jack The Stripper <motti_at_dml_optonline.net>

5. Re: Shocks - vendors and other scammers
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

6. Stainless Steel
From: "Murray Fisher" <murrayf_at_dml_charter.net>

7. Re: Temp gage fluctuation
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>

8. Re: Re: Sunstar Gold DeLorean
From: crazycracker731_at_dml_aol.com

9. Last Call for Caravans
From: "Mike Substelny" <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

10. Re: Stainless Steel
From: Andrew <aos+yahoo_at_dml_boom.net>

11. RE: Temp gage fluctuation
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_att.net>

12. Re: Shocks - vendors and other scammers
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

13. Re: Shocks - vendors and other scammers
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

14. >85mph Speedo
From: "mcookwwi" <mark_at_dml_wizwarecomputers.com>

15. Re: Re: Sunstar Gold DeLorean
From: "William F. Lane" <blane_at_dml_triad.rr.com>

16. New DeLorean Parts and vendors
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>

17. Re: Sunstar Gold DeLorean
From: "dmcman82" <dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com>

18. Re: New DeLorean Parts and vendors
From: "txgrnbrt" <txgrnbrt_at_dml_yahoo.com>

19. PJ Grady shocks...New DeLorean Parts
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

20. Re: vendors and other scammers
From: "drgolden" <Don.Golden_at_dml_earthlink.net>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 06:14:27 -0000
From: "johnsdmc12" <dherv10_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Stainless fuel lines

Group, I put new Teflon / stainless steel fuel lines on the car 
saturday. Let me know what you think about them. It was 90 degrees in 
Dallas Saturday and no problem. I put the picture on the front page. 
Also, someone was asking a while back how long the accumulators last, 
Well mine started acting up today, and that makes it 5 years and 
about 22,000 miles. Going to replace after Memphis. See ya there.
John hervey
www.specialtauto.com  




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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 06:16:20 -0000
From: "dmcman82" <dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Shocks - vendors and other scammers

Now this I have to agree with James (and I usually don't :)). Why 
would anyone want to use a shock meant for a front wheel drive car 
on the Deloreans mid engine setup? I could understand if the shocks 
were from a rear or mid-engine car but from a front engine car? How 
good of a ride would you actually get? That's my question because 
I've never rode or driven in a Delorean with that type of setup. Why 
not get the new re-designed new fully adjustable shocks from the 
vendors? You can adjust the stiffness or softness with the valve 
that's mounted to the body of the shock and the rear shocks have 
three grooves in then so that you can adjust the height of the 
collar as high or as low as you want it. They may be expensive but 
they are rebuildable so in the long run you get a perfect shock 
setup and you save. IMHO.

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "jv_espey" <james_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., jwit6_at_dml_c... wrote:
> 
> I'm just curious, and hope that someone can answer this for me 
intelligently. 
> Wouldn't there be some disadvantage to using shocks from a FRONT 
engine 
> car in the DeLorean application? 



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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 07:04:14 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: door jamming

To add a little something to this, I had a very simular situation 
after I installed a new door handle on the passenger side of my 
car. DMC Joe was able to diagnose it immediately. It seemed 
that the cable which connected to the door handle had caught on 
the sheath, and wasn't fully retracting. The rear striker pin would 
disengage, but the front one would not. A quick adjustment of the 
cable, and the door was like new again! Before you go adjusting 
pins and what not, you may just need to take a look at the cable 
first...

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., BondAtomic_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Actually, I am having the same problem sometimes, although 
not very many. I 
> think it is when the door handle is not lifted up at a good 
speed.
> 
> John
> 4275
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 04:58:34 -0700
From: Jack The Stripper <motti_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Sunstar Gold DeLorean

I've never heard of this company before.  Are they reputable?  Their 
price for the BTTF version is half of what the company I bought my 
regular version model from is charging (Exoticar.com).

Thanks,

--Joe
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 6
>    Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 21:35:50 EDT
>    From: crazycracker731_at_dml_aol.com
> Subject: Re: Sunstar Gold DeLorean
> 
>  <A HREF="http://diecastmuscle.com/">Diecast cars, diecast model cars, diecast collectibles, diecast muscle cars</A>
> Here is your link 
>the car does not come out till nov.



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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 11:04:14 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Shocks - vendors and other scammers

The shock absorber (or more corectly "damper") prevents harmonic motion -  "bounce" - in
the suspension. The springs support the car, not the shocks. Presumably a shock from a
heavier car would result in a firmer ride on the DeLorean, but it's a case of "suck it
and see".

Doesn't the Deorean have a firmer ride than the cars mentioned anyway?

Martin
#1458

jv_espey wrote:

> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., jwit6_at_dml_c... wrote:
>
> I'm just curious, and hope that someone can answer this for me intelligently.
> Wouldn't there be some disadvantage to using shocks from a FRONT engine
> car in the DeLorean application? I mean, think of the weight distribution in the
> DeLorean (35/65) versus either of the cars mentioned. Can someone explain
> to me why this is not factor?
>
> James




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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 06:35:32 -0700
From: "Murray Fisher" <murrayf_at_dml_charter.net>
Subject: Stainless Steel

From the daily page of a calendar I got for Christmas:

What Makes Stainless Steel Stainless?

Experts Say:  "Stainless Steel is coated with a thin, transparent film of
iron oxide and chromium.  This prevents soap, water, and air from geting to
the metal below and eating it away.  Since its coating is smooth., stainless
steel is also very sanitary.  Bacteria, fungi and dirt have nowhere to hide
and are easily washed away.

It was developed in 1913 by British metallurgist Harry Brearly,  who was
searching for a better lining for cannons."

from The Book of Totally Useless Information, by Donald Voorhees.

Four Days to Mempis!!! But we will be there a day early so only three for
us......we have our suitcases and laptop at the ready!!!

Murray Fisher
VIN:  05962 Lic: DMC-XII
Walla Walla, WA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 13:41:00 -0400
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Temp gage fluctuation

Scott
Check and make sure that the hot water valve on the right front of the
engine is not touching the temp sensor. I've seen it before. When you
accelerate the valve will move sligthly and come in contact with the sensor
grounding it and causing the gauge to drop down. Since the engine is shaking
a little the contact is not perfect and that causes the gauge to drop just a
bit. In that case the faster you accelerate the lower the gauge goes. Let me
know what you find.
You can email me directly if you need help finding the temp sensor or the
valve.

Hope this solves your problem
Tom Niemczewski
vin 6298 (FOR SALE)
tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl

PS. See you in Memphis!!!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_att.net>
To: "Delorean Mailing List" <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:21 PM
Subject: [DML] Temp gage fluctuation


> While prepping my car for Memphis trip, my temperature gauge started
> fluctuating with change in engine speed.
>



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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 15:25:42 EDT
From: crazycracker731_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Sunstar Gold DeLorean

They are the origanal company that is why they are cheap. no problem
Richard



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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:40:42 -0400
From: "Mike Substelny" <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Last Call for Caravans

Patti (my wife) and I spotted a DeLorean in West Virginia Friday evening.
It was on Interstate 77 between Ripley and Ravenswood, and it was running
beautifully!

If this was you, or if this could have been you, then you ought to come to
the DeLorean Car Show in Memphis this coming Thursday through Sunday.  You
also ought to caravan with the DeLorean Club of Ohio.

See the dmcnews.com page for the link Dave Swingle created to the list of
known caravans, including ours.

Hope to see you Thursday!

- Mike Substelny
DeLorean Club of Ohio



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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:14:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew <aos+yahoo_at_dml_boom.net>
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel

Murray Fisher wrote:

> Experts Say: "Stainless Steel is coated with a thin, transparent film of
> iron oxide and chromium. This prevents soap, water, and air from geting
> to the metal below and eating it away.

While true, this is a very misleading way of explaining stainless steel's
special properties, because it implies that this coating is applied in the
manufacturing process and is therefore subject to damage or wear, which is
not the case.

Stainless steel is different from regular steel in that at least 12% of it
is actually chromium.  Chromium reacts with oxygen to produce an oxide,
which creates a natural coating just a few molecules thick on the surface
of the metal, protecting the metal underneth.  This coating is not
manufactured.  It's just a chemical reaction.  If it's damaged, it reforms
itself much faster than the steel can oxidize, hence no rust.

Your calendar isn't wrong, but its choice of words is a bit misleading.

-andrew




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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:39:44 -0500
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: RE: Temp gage fluctuation

Thanks Walt,
The connector at the sending unit appeared to be connected, but in fact, was
not.

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Coe [mailto:Whalt_at_dml_att.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:14 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Temp gage fluctuation


> While prepping my car for Memphis trip, my temperature gauge started
> fluctuating with change in engine speed.

Bad connections at the sender unit are not uncommon.  But this sounds like
maybe it is related to system voltage like maybe your alternator isn't
putting out enough?  If the gauge goes up on acceleration then it sounds
like a direct correlation.

Walt



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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:02:02 EDT
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Shocks - vendors and other scammers

In a message dated 6/9/02 1:05:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, james_at_dml_usadmc.com 
writes:

<< I'm just curious, and hope that someone can answer this for me 
intelligently. 
 Wouldn't there be some disadvantage to using shocks from a FRONT engine 
 car in the DeLorean application? I mean, think of the weight distribution in 
the 
 DeLorean (35/65) versus either of the cars mentioned. Can someone explain 
 to me why this is not factor? >>

James,
Shocks don't care whether they get to ride in the front or the rear. Shock 
absorbers absorb shocks. That is, they damp the movement of the suspension. 
They offer resistance to movement. The weight of the car is carried by the 
springs, not the shock absorber. ( Although on the DeLorean rear, since it is 
a coil over shock design, the spring does attach to the unsprung lower 
portion of the shock.) 

The more mass or weight that is set or put in motion, the more energy 
absorbtion required to keep the spring from returning the energy it has 
stored, back to the body and setting up a harmonic resonance (bounce).  So 
when the suspension compresses, the inertial energy of the mass in motion is 
absorbed by the spring and the shock. Most of that energy goes up in heat. 
The rest goes into returning the car to it's normal ride height. 

So if you take a shock that offers a firm ride in it's original application, 
it will offer the exact same ride with the same weight, as long as the 
compression rate of the spring it's paired up with is the same as the 
original application.

So if you wanted to make a science out of it, once you know the dimension of 
the shock that fits the Delorean, you can take all the applications that run 
that dimension, find thier OEM spring compression rates, and the weight they 
were designed to damp. Then under the same conditions you'll get the OEM 
ride. A lot of work, and still a need to interpolate for DMC-12 applications 
(Do you want your car to ride like a Galaxy 500?).

 For ball park purposes it would probably suffice to look at the amount of 
weight the shock was designed to damp, leave the spring out of the equation, 
and go with that. Shocks with a 1000 pound OEM damping load should offer a 
stiffer or less compliant ride in a 800 pound application.

    Variable speed damping, or sensa track units should take a lot of the 
guess work out of it, since they should adjust thier damping to match 
velocity. Still a need to bolt it up and try it out to know what you're 
getting for sure. 

As always correct me if I'm wrong. We can all learn together.

Jim 6147



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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:11:38 EDT
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Shocks - vendors and other scammers

In a message dated 6/9/02 1:05:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Whalt_at_dml_att.net 
writes:

<< It is unclear in your post -- have you actually tried using the Grainger
 collars on your car or are you just speculating?  I got the idea myself to
 use pillow blocks from Grainger, but that would require some machining to
 cut off or mill off the lip meant to hold the bearing centered.  I never
 bothered to check if they sell collars.  That would be a lot easier to use.
  >>
Walt,
No I haven't gotten them yet. But I think I'll try them when I pull out my 
$19.00 Napa Gas Deluxe rears and put in my new $24 Monroe Sensa Tracks.
Jim



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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 23:01:45 -0000
From: "mcookwwi" <mark_at_dml_wizwarecomputers.com>
Subject: >85mph Speedo

I have looked everywhere and I cannot figure out where I can find a 
140, 160, or 170mph speedo for my D. What are my options? How 
difficult is it to change?

Thanks,
Mark
mcookwwi_at_dml_yahoo.com




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Message: 15
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 19:21:15 -0700
From: "William F. Lane" <blane_at_dml_triad.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Sunstar Gold DeLorean

Sunstar is the manufacturer! Exoticar is a dealer.

Bill Lane
#3635




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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 01:51:01 +0200
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>
Subject: New DeLorean Parts and vendors

Lately, there has been a very active discussion on the DML regarding replacement parts and the DMC vendors.
First let me say that I'm a firm believer in supporting the DMC vendors. We all know in our hearts were we would be had it not been for them. We need the DMC vendors so that we can continue to drive our fine automobiles. 

So why do people look for a non-original "wear" part? In the long run, you won't make money on it, because you will have to replace it sooner or later with a genuine DMC part. Often you will find yourself wasting time at the local auto parts store. The DMC vendors know what you need.  Of course there are exceptions to this rule, I won't go into detail, just let me say that I have received parts with no instructions. That is confusing and irritating, so the vendors should try to improve in that area.

 I'm trying to get all my parts from the USA, I often combine it with other things I need. Why buy a Bosch Fuel Pump here in Norway, when I can get it in the same package with other parts I need? I feel good supporting the DMC vendors.

On the other hand, sometimes it is easier to order parts over here, for instance a new clutch.
Shipping would be very expensive for a part like this, so sometimes, when I'm sure I will get the correct part over here in Europe, I will buy it locally.

The DeLorean specific parts are what we, the drivers, always have to order from the DMC vendors.
But how do you make people buy other parts from the DeLorean vendors, parts that you can get at a local auto shop?

The answer is that you have to make something better than original. And this is what I have been wondering about lately.

Why on Earth don't the DMC vendors offer parts like these:

* complete silicone hose set for the whole cooling system (only one vendor sell a few silicone hoses related to the waterpump). It would sell very well. Finally, no-one had to worry about those hoses anymore.

* stainless braided brake lines like Marty Maier made possible

*Toby-tabs. Very much needed. Why didn't one or two of the vendors come up and say, Hey we're interested in your project. Maybe they did, but the DML hasn't heard of it.

* stainless steel frames made by Brian Pearce (why do they only offer the front tube extension? And why not make that part in stainless steel instead of powdercoated steel)

* stainless braided fuel lines (we have all heard about sudden fuel-related DeLorean fires)

Again, I would like to ask - Do the vendors co-operate when deciding to make new parts?
I don't think so, just think of the earlier shockabsorber debate...DMC Houston made custom-made shocks while PJ Grady uses off the shelf shocks.

DMC Joe's excellent Battery Saver. Why don't all vendors offer this? It is the final solution to all the doorlight-draining battery problem. 

My point here is that all vendors should be co-operating more closely. This is a little community, and I'm sure that development funds could be better used if each vendor specialized in certain things.

PJ Grady for instance, has the TankZilla. DMC Houston is reported to come up with a new fuel device. Is it really necessary?

When will someone start to remanufacture the LH side Torsion Bar?

When will someone offer a brand new Volvo style AC Panel, where there is not any decal, but quality plastic engraved decal which won't crack up like the old one does.

Why don't the vendors ask us, the owners what part we may be interested in/committed to buy.
If we committed to buy, Im sure the manufacturing process and time would be very quickly. The DML is a nice forum to find out what people want, right here, right now.

Also, I feel it a bit strange that the vendors themselves dont participate more often on the DML. I think they should be more active, in order to "get to know" the needs and wants of the DML members. After all, this is THE ONE list above all.

Another thing - more and more DeLorean are coming into Europe. Why isn't Wingray Autos in Liverpool, England more marketed by DMC Houston. I don't think all European DeLorean Owners know of this excellent DMC Houston affiliate. Parts warehouse in the US yes, but how about a little warehouse in England, in order to get the parts quicker.

Ok, thats all for now. I probably asked more questions than I could answer myself, but Im just trying to get the discussion on to a different level.

My point is - when an individual comes up with a great idea (some mentioned above) for DeLorean parts...why dont the vendors react in a timely fashion so that they can get the market so to speak there and then. Then you wouldnt have any private persons who sold "competition product"

I understand that if a vendor has two piles of cooling hoses, that he dont want to invest in silicone hose before the other stock is depleted. On the other hand, there are enough Concours people out there who would still buy original hoses. So really, you would sell two types of hoses to two kinds of owners.

Again, if enough cash is generated on certain popular parts, then new parts could be manufactured even faster. 
Ok, enough of my boring thoughts...just my 2cents worth... 

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 02:06:40 -0000
From: "dmcman82" <dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sunstar Gold DeLorean

They are reputable. I pre-Ordered my Delorean model from them months 
before it was released. They held my Credit Card on file and when 
the model came in they shipped it out then billed me for it once it 
was shipped. Had no problems with them and Highly recomend them.

Steve

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Jack The Stripper <motti_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> I've never heard of this company before.  Are they reputable?  
Their 

> >    Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 21:35:50 EDT
> >    From: crazycracker731_at_dml_a...
> > Subject: Re: Sunstar Gold DeLorean
> > 
> >  <A HREF="http://diecastmuscle.com/



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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 02:49:31 -0000
From: "txgrnbrt" <txgrnbrt_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New DeLorean Parts and vendors

I've read with considerable interest the posts on vendors and 
scammers. 

My opinion is that we should support the DMC vendors. Sure, you can 
out source a part every now and then - everyone does that, but when 
you need a part that no one else has, they are there. Most of the 
time their parts fit correctly and will outlast a "make do" part.

Do you think that the other marque vendors will give you their part 
sources? HA! Not likely. Imagine asking Microsoft for their source 
codes on Windows XP!

How often do you wear out shocks? We all like to save money, but when 
it comes time to replace mine, I'll go to a DMC vendor.

Let me also say that I have many machine shop tools in my garage, and 
have the knowledge to be able to re-engineer and/or duplicate a lot 
of DMC parts. What's your time worth? Mine is worth enough to 
concentrate on other things and buy the vendors parts.

Jim




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Message: 19
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 22:56:30 EDT
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: PJ Grady shocks...New DeLorean Parts

In a message dated 06/09/2002 10:11:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
delorean_at_dml_online.no writes:

<<  while PJ Grady uses off the shelf shocks. >>

Stian,

    Rob Grady, the owner of PJ Grady Inc., had the shocks custom made for the 
DeLorean. The company that manufactured the shocks & springs is one of the 
worlds leading manufactures of suspension components.  The PJ Grady kit is 
the best option that I have experienced, as I have driven Houston's Kit and 
the PJ Grady Kit and prefer the PJ Grady kit over the Houston kit.
    The next time you are in the USA ask for a ride in the famous British 
Racing Green DeLorean. 

Best Wishes,
Michael Pack



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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 03:33:45 -0000
From: "drgolden" <Don.Golden_at_dml_earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: vendors and other scammers

I want to reiterate Bill's comments. Two years ago I had a front 
shock break, so I decided to investigate replacing the shocks and 
lowering the car.

After considerable research, thankfully I ran into Marty. I have an 
Aerospace engineering background, and it was obvious just how 
professional, and serious Marty is in identifying solutions for the 
D. We're talking about very considerable testing, re-testing, using 
time tested engineering methodology. My experience of relying on NAPA 
(or other) cross-referenced parts seems to be a bit hit and miss. I 
would much rather rely on professionals who have the expertise and 
background to recommend and stand behind their products.

Long story short, I tackled the shock replacement and spring change 
with a considerable amount of help and guidance (as well as a spring 
compressor). For a relatively small amount of money on my part, I was 
provided parts, information, guidance, and an overall value far 
exceeding anything I've come to expect. 

I personaly take umbrage at using terms like "scammers" in the 
context of my experiences with people like Marty and many of the 
other vendors.

Don Golden
Vin #4835 



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., tonilfhs98_at_dml_a... wrote:
> I rarely post to the DML but I have to relate my own experience 
with Marty.  
> Last fall I was contemplating changing my shocks to improve the 
ride.  Since 
> Marty will be attending our tech session I thought I want to give 
the shocks 
> that he developed a try.  I contacted Marty and he agree to bring a 
set along 
> and help me change it.  At the tech session he basically changed 
the shocks 
> for me and showed me how to compress the springs without using any 
tool but 
> the weight of the car.  The collars he developed are well machined 
and 
> quality is superb.  The result is - excellent ride and comfort.  I 
am 
> extremely happy with it.
> Marty is a Professional Engineer by trade and I believe his 
improvement on 
> the DeLorean is strictly motivated by his interest.  Like he 
said "He would 
> go broke if he depend on it for a living" or to that extend.  The 
price he 
> charge is more than fair and the markup is hardly worth his time 
and effort.  
> There is no reason that he should volunteer his information when he 
invested 
> a lot of money and time on developement effort.  If he choose to do 
that, 
> that will be up to him but there is nothing wrong to try to recoup 
his 
> development cost by marking it up.
> I met Marty the first time at the tech session and he is the nicest 
guy you 
> want to meet.  Marty,  thanks for a great job.
> Bill Kwan
> #2157
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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