From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1091
Date: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 11:04 PM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: No fuel pressure
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

2. Re: Re: Where is the common electrical leak?
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

3. Re: Rivnuts
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>

4. Re: Halon-Blah Blah Blah
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

5. Re: R-134a Conversion -- as a kit?
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

6. No A/C Fan
From: "The Atkinson Family" <mikeatk_at_dml_cox.net>

7. Website Update
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

8. Re: R-134a Conversion -- as a kit?
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. Re: Twin-engine Delorean site
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>

10. RE: Re: Where is the common electrical leak?
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>

11. Re: Re: Where is the common electrical leak?
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

12. RE: Rivnuts
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>

13. Re: Rivnuts
From: "tmasterlc" <tmasterlc_at_dml_msn.com>

14. Re: Car Show Photos, redux
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

15. Re: blah blah.... lesson learned
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>

16. Re: No A/C Fan
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

17. RE: Rivnuts
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>

18. Re: Mode switch
From: "dtt2150" <dtt2150_at_dml_hotmail.com>

19. A/C question
From: Delorean17_at_dml_aol.com

20. Re: Halon-Blah Blah Blah
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

21. Re: Re: Where is the common electrical leak?
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

22. Re: R-134a Conversion -- as a kit?
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com

23. how do you fix cracks in lower engine cover?
From: "fluxmcfly" <bfreyguy_at_dml_aol.com>

24. The DML is our friend :) [was: New DML member in Miami..wants to learn]
From: Farrar Hudkins <fhudkins_at_dml_uno.edu>

25. Re: Website Update
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:54:42 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: No fuel pressure

The fuel pump fuse (#7) is a direct feed from the battery +12 volt buss. Do
another test; I have never heard of a no voltage condition at the 12+ side
of the #7 fuse.

DMC Joe Help Club
DeLorean Web Mall:  http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/home.html

DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv

----- Original Message -----
From: <JVC220_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:01 PM
Subject: [DML] No fuel pressure


> Hi everybody,
>        This is my first post to the DML.  I also wanted to give my praise
to
> Ken for a great show in Memphis.  I bought my D to restore.  I replaced
the
> fuel pump and harness and installed it into the tank but when I put the
tank
> back in the car, the pump didn't work.  So I took the tank back out and
> checked the wires going to the fuel pump and found there was no power to
the
> pump.  I checked it at the fuse box and also found that there was no power
at
> the fuse for the fuel pump.  I checked everything I could think of but
have
> had no luck.  Does anybody have any ideas?  Could it be a faulty ground
> somewhere?
>
> Adam Sullivan
> JVC220_at_dml_aol.com
> # 17087





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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 00:17:54 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Where is the common electrical leak?

Joe,

You are correct concerning disconnecting the red wire from the stock door
lock module. For more details check out my article on this subject:
http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/doorlock.html

DMC Joe Help Club
DeLorean Web Mall:  http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/home.html

DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv

----- Original Message -----
From: "theshovel1224" <theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 1:50 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: Where is the common electrical leak?


> You may want to see if disconnecting the red wire from the stock door
> lock module to the circuit breaker helps.  In the archives, there is
> something about the stock door lock module causing some sort of
> battery drain.  I used to have this problem until I installed a
> Lockzilla.  My battery will now stay charged for as long as I have
> ever left it sit connected.
>
> John Yeoman
>
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "dmeester" <meester_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> > Hello Everyone,
> > My Delorean has the typical battery leak.  If I don't drive it for
> > three weeks the battery will be low or dead.  I installed a brand
> new
> > Exide orbital battery.  (These batteries are great for in the
> > Delorean because they don't spill)  I have temperarily resolved the
> > problem by installing a battery disconect switch.  Unfortunetly
> this
> > is not the root of the problem.  I have searched the archives and
> > discovered many owners have the same problem, and also resolve it
> > with a battery disconect.  The big question is where is the common
> > leak at?  I'm sure the clock and accessories are not running it
> down
> > in only a few weeks.  Thanks for any help on this.
> >
> > Daniel Meester
> > 81 5spd 23k miles
>





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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 01:09:19 -0400
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: Rivnuts

I can't believe that there is not a suitable alternative to the rivnuts,
20 years later.  We made stealth bombers in less than 100 years of
flying, why can't get a rivnut that doesn't swivel like my arm-chair? 
(or do I have to wait another 80 years).

I replaced one of my rivnuts with a well-nut.  it's made of a rubber
sleeve and a nut; and the sleeve expands to stay in the hole one you
start screwing in the screw.  It seems to be working alright so far....


Jim 1537
lic# 3ROTOR


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 00:44:02 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Halon-Blah Blah Blah

The topic I started about the built-in Halon fire extinguishers has made me
aware of some interesting points both about Halon and about people jumping
to conclusions.

The most informative and CORRECT e-mails were sent to me off-list.  The
reason?  These people have had their feelings hurt for giving their opinions
and advice on the DML before and don't want to be torn up anymore.  Toby
picked up on this really well concerning Jim's question about rebuilding the
master cylinder.  The first post that I did concerning vacuum bleeding the
brakes wasn't allowed through by the moderator because he felt that I gave
bad advice telling people that I dressed the bleed screws threads with
teflon.  But had he realized that this is a readily available product in
automotive stores sold specifically for dressing brake bleed screws then
maybe he would have let it through.  Then when I ask about installing a
built-in Halon system, my post gets an ill-informed disclaimer built into
it.  I'm not complaining about the moderators in particular, but these
instances are the first to come to mind because I like freedom of speech --
which also implies freedom to give bad advice or ask stupid questions.
Whatever happens, we still end up taking the good with the bad.  I would
rather weed through off-topic spam than have genuine good DeLorean talk get
censored out.

About Halon:  I've learned that this stuff is very safe and effective.  It
is used a lot in airplanes and even in the space shuttles.  It does NOT
displace oxygen.  Except for environmental regulations, there are no
problems with using it in an automobile -- even in a confined passenger
compartment.  How did I learn this stuff?  From e-mails off list that
directed me to various web sites.  Now you say, "You saw it on the internet,
so it must be true."  No, I don't mean this.  I read a few articles written
by the EPA and some companies selling the stuff.  Except for the
environmental regulations, it is a damn good idea to have Halon in your car.
I'm still looking into it but am turned off by the legalities.  Halon is no
longer manufactured in the US, and the replacemnt for it will be phased out
in the future also for environmental reasons.  Maybe by then they will have
a a better substitue for it, but I'm not anxious to install a system in my
car and not be able to keep it charged.  I've had small Halon extinguishers
before and had to throw them all away because they leaked and I couldn't get
them refilled!  The Halon they contained was identical to R-12, and this
stuff is difficult to keep bottled up.  I've had a few cans of R-12 go empty
on their own, too.  The next time I find myself at a marine supply house,
I'm going to see what Halon systems they have for sale.  I don't believe
that CFC's really do anything to the ozone layer anyway.  Coincidently all
this regulation crap came about at the same time that the patent on Freon
expired.

As far as over-moderation goes, it was really interesting to meet some of
the moderators in Memphis.  They all treated me with kid-gloves.  But it's
no wonder.  Y'all don't get to see my messages that they don't let through.
Once I had a few beers too many and started a post calling them all a bunch
of "twisted bastards".  The results were really interesting.  Some of them
showed genuine concern for my feelings while others just categorically
threatened to ban me from the list.  Well, none of us are perfect.  But it
really disturbs me when otherwise well written on-topic posts seem to just
disappear with no explaination.  Will they ever make me a moderator?  Not a
chance!  :-)

My next post is going to be a re-run of a very on topic humorous post that
presumeably never made it past the moderators.  If you enjoy reading my
"column" and don't see this one posted, then e-mail me off list and I'll
forward it directly to you.  It's a true story and a laugh riot.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 00:44:13 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: R-134a Conversion -- as a kit?

Dave,

As is already obvious from our off-list posts, another list member and I are
redoing the a/c systems on our cars.  I'm staying with the original R-12 and
the other guy is using R-134a.

This whole Freon deal is a fiasco!  I had a compressor rebuilt to put on my
car and the guy put PAG-100 oil in it.  He warned me to only use PAG-100 in
the system and not to mix any refrigerant oils.  I understood (perhaps
incorrectly) that PAG-100 is cross-compatible between R-12 and R-134a.  Then
I go to a few autoparts stores to buy some PAG-100.  None of them even knew
what it was.  They had PAG-46 (or something like that) and PAG-150.  So I
called the rebuilder and ask what the deal is.  He suggested using PAG-150.
I said that the PAG-150's label said that it was not compatible with R-12.
He changed his mind and told me that if I want to use R-12 then to flush out
the oil he put in the compressor and replace it with mineral oil.  I go in
NAPA and ask for mineral oil and the guy looked at me like I was from outer
space.  So he brings out a bottle of Ester-100 instead and says this is
better.  Well, the label says that it is cross-compatible between R-12 &
R-134a, so I think I'll use that.  Comments anyone?

Every parts counter guy who I told that I wanted to use R-12 asked in a
bewildered voice, "Why?"  Answer: Because I have it and it works better.  No
further questions.  The problem is that few of the auto parts stores sell
anything compatible with it anymore.

I found that "variable orifice tubes" to retrofit R-134a in the DeLorean are
available -- $20.50 US.  We called it a "self-adjusting orifice tube" and
the "woman" behind the counter didn't have a clue what we were talking
about.  So correct terminology is important.  At the same place we also
bought an R-12 orifice for my DeLorean that cost $1.50 -- ouch! :-)  The
dryer they showed for a DeLorean was wrong.  It had one of the large ports
exiting the bottom.  So we gave them our cross-reference number, and that
one matched.  The label specifies that the desiccant is cross-compatible
with R-12 & R-134a.  It cost $38.  Ouch again!  :-)

It is hard to say if it would be feasible to sell an R-134a conversion kit
unless you also rented all the stuff to do it.  It is probably a given that
anyone who would attempt such a thing will already have a gauge manifold
set, but you also need a vacuum pump and maybe a flushing tool.  I haven't
tried flushing yet, but according to the directions on the can the fluid is
supposed to be used with special equipment and also be recovered like used
refrigerant.  I'm going to see what that costs.  So far someone told me that
all you need is a venturi siphon tool that you blow compressed air through.
It sucks up the flushing fluid and blows it through the system.  Sounds
simple enough, but is it necessary?  Can I just pour the stuff through using
a funnel and then blow it out?  BTW, the NAPA guy specifically warned me not
to use Brake-clean.  He said it would leave a residue and cause the
compressor to go bad.

I get the feeling that by the time I buy all the equipment to rebuild my
system, it is less money than paying a shop to do it.  And once I have the
equipment, I can do it again even cheaper!

I have a suggestion:  Let's rename the DML to the DRL... the DeLorean Rumor
List.  Hey, I read it on the internet, so it must be true!

Walt




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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:26:49 -0700
From: "The Atkinson Family" <mikeatk_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: No A/C Fan

I haven't posted in a while because everything has been running fine.  Well
last night that changed a bit.  I took the car for a short drive and almost
immeditally smelled thing burning like an electrical short, so I turned
around and went home.  Didn't see any smoke just smelled it.  Today, after
looking the fuses and engine bay over and not seeing anything wrong I
started it back up and the interior A/C fan wouldn't come on.

I could hear the compressor cycling outside but no inside fan, I tried all
four positions and nothing.  The funny thing is the A/C was ON when I
smelled something burning and it kept running until I got home.  I suppose
the Fan has given up but wanted to get other peoples opinion first and see
what everyone else thought it might be.

Thanks

Mike Atkinson
vin 16232




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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:00:36 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Website Update

Hi All

I've just done a site update, including several photos of #2727's 
engine, stripped down to the block to get the cylinder heads properly 
sorted. There are a few other new photos too. Follow the links to NEWS 
for more info. www.delorean.co.uk

Best Wishes

Martin
#1458
DOC UK




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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:07:32 -0000
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: R-134a Conversion -- as a kit?

Sounds great to me!!

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Stragand, Dave" <dave.stragand_at_dml_k...> wrote:
> How many of you folks would be interested in a complete R-134a 
conversion kit for the DMC?  This would include all of the O-rings, 
fittings, Ester oil, a new orifice tube, can tap, retrofit decals, 
system pressure tester, vent thermometer, and complete written 
instructions with illustrations (or possibly on video)?
>  
> With optional:
> - new drier
> - variable orifice valve for improved R-134a performance
> - increased capacity condensor for greater cooling under R-134a
> - R-134a included (probably cost more to ship than to just get 
locally though)
>  
> The instructions would be based upon Sanden/Sankyo's (the 
compressor manufacturer) own instructions for retrofitting our 
systems.  You could do it all yourself, or take the whole kit to your 
favorite trusted mechanic.
>  
> If there is great enough interest, I will work up the pricing and 
assemble the kits.  Please drop me a line privately if you are 
interested at dave.stragand(at)ketchum.com
>  
> -Dave Stragand
> VIN #05927
> http://www.projectvixen.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:09:15 -0000
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>
Subject: Re: Twin-engine Delorean site

Hi Erik, Mark, and anyone else interested.

I bought the car in 1997 and started taking it apart in summer of 
2000.  I started the frame and modifications to the underbody in the 
summer of 2001.
The front engine should be running by the end of this summer, after 
making and installing the fuel tank, installing the cooling system, 
which should be comparatively simple, and replacing the Prelude 
wiring.  During the winter months, I hope to program the twin-engine-
controller, which is already designed and built, get the rear engine 
running, install the rear transmission lubrication pump, interface 
the Prelude wiring with the Delorean lighting, and install the 
interior.  My track record for scheduling has been really bad, so I'm 
skeptical of any date I set.  Basically I work as hard as I can, and 
try to accept the results.

Rick Gendreau, 11472.




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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 08:45:33 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Where is the common electrical leak?

Disconnecting the door lock module also disables the feature of unlocking the doors in an accident.  

If you use the car on a regular basis, I suggest you not leave it this way too long.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: DMC Joe [mailto:dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 12:18 AM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Where is the common electrical leak?
> 
> 
> Joe,
> 
> You are correct concerning disconnecting the red wire from 
> the stock door
> lock module. For more details check out my article on this subject:
> http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/doorlock.html
> 



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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:33:00 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Where is the common electrical leak?

Hi Joe, sorry but this is not correct. The red wire is simply the power 
supply to the solenoids. The leak comes from the module itself, 
specifically the 20+ year old capacitors going bad. The purple wire in 
the lock module's main harness is the permanent 12v feed. Un-plug the 
main harness as well as the red wire is my advice.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; the stock module is a poor 
design, but it IS servicable. Replace the relays with sealed units and 
add some protection diodes. It won't last as long as a LockZilla, but 
you'll still get several thousand switches out of it for an outlay of 
only a few $$ and half an hour with a soldering iron.

Martin
#1458

DMC Joe wrote:

>Joe,
>
>You are correct concerning disconnecting the red wire from the stock door
>lock module. For more details check out my article on this subject:
>http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/doorlock.html
>
>DMC Joe Help Club
>DeLorean Web Mall:  http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/home.html
>
>DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv
>





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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:29:43 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>
Subject: RE: Rivnuts

The rivnut problem may be a combination of improper installation, and the effects of dissimilar metals reacting.

When installing a aluminum rivnut, if you use too much force you will distort or rip the threads out.  Because of this, sometimes not enough force is used to install them, which will result in them being more likely to spin.

Putting a steel bolt in to an aluminum ruvnut will cause it to gall.  Add some moisture, and this will happen even faster.  The added resistance between the bolt and rivnut will transfer the twisting force to the joint between the fiberglass and rivnut.  As a result it will either cause the rivnut to spin or in some cases the bolt will simply snap (if the rivnut was installed properly).

On #01860, I had a number of rivnut problems.  All four that hold the fan shroud had to be replaced, along with 2 that hold the washer bottle in place- All places that tend to get wet. I also had one spin in the electrical compartment where the back of the rivnut is exposed next to the rear tire also likely to get wet.  All of the rivnuts were drilled out and replaced (John Hervey sold me the METRIC tool at a reasonable price, with all of the rivnuts I needed).  The bolts were replaced with Stainless Steel and assembled with never-seize (because SS will still cause the Aluminum to gall).  This was all done within the past few months so I can't report on the long term results, however I suggest this procedure to anyone else with rivnut problems.  The only improvement on this would be to use stainless rivnuts.  I did receive some leads on sourcing, but ran out of time to follow up.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Strickland [mailto:ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 1:09 AM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [DML] Rivnuts
> 
> 
> I can't believe that there is not a suitable alternative to 
> the rivnuts,
> 20 years later.  We made stealth bombers in less than 100 years of
> flying, why can't get a rivnut that doesn't swivel like my arm-chair? 
> (or do I have to wait another 80 years).
> 
> I replaced one of my rivnuts with a well-nut.  it's made of a rubber
> sleeve and a nut; and the sleeve expands to stay in the hole one you
> start screwing in the screw.  It seems to be working alright 
> so far....



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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:30:41 -0000
From: "tmasterlc" <tmasterlc_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Re: Rivnuts

I've used what is called a jacknut.  Looks just like a rivnut after 
it is installed.  They kinda work like wall anchors...expanding 
behind the surface as you tighten the bolt.  A little hard to find 
but they are out there and you need no special tools.

Ron
#1529 (the Yellow D)


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_j...> wrote:
> I can't believe that there is not a suitable alternative to the 
rivnuts,
> 20 years later.  We made stealth bombers in less than 100 years of
> flying, why can't get a rivnut that doesn't swivel like my arm-
chair? 
> (or do I have to wait another 80 years).
> 
> I replaced one of my rivnuts with a well-nut.  it's made of a rubber
> sleeve and a nut; and the sleeve expands to stay in the hole one you
> start screwing in the screw.  It seems to be working alright so 
far....
> 
> 
> Jim 1537
> lic# 3ROTOR
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:46:58 -0400
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Car Show Photos, redux


I've received requests from some dial-up-only folks (not that there's
anything wrong with that) to create thumbnails of the photos I took in
Memphis.  I changed my Photos page to include small thumbnails of all the
photos.  If you've seen them all already, there's nothing new.  If you
didn't bother since it was just a page of links that opened very large
images, now's your chance.

http://www.eskin.net/delorean/memphis1.html

-Hank




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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:57:18 -0400
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>
Subject: Re: blah blah.... lesson learned

This halon thread has been an interesting one and quit edudational for me on
many levels.  One particular lesson that comes to mind is the reminder that
not everything that the Army, or government for that matter, teaches is
true.  The halon link that was given was quite informative.  It was another
reminder that somebody always knows more than you do.  On the same token, I
got a good laugh out of the original blah reply (marshmellows rule ;-)),
reminding me that everybody's a comedian at some point.  Remember, this is
an open mailing advice collum and not everybody here is an expert, even
though sometimes we think we are in the right (I have also screwed up on the
stainless bolts in the alluminum block.  DON'T DO IT!).  My thought here is
to give advice when you think you know what you are talking about.  Learning
and having fun is what this means to me, so keep the laughs comming.

I have been known to rock the boat a little with things like rim subjects
and preformance upgrades without numbers (sound familiar?).  I just love to
hear people talk about their dream they're driving weather they do it for
the numbers, or just love being a mechanic like me.  BTW, if you are
searching for rims, try William Kay Wheels:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Street/3391/
He sells them spesifically for the D, with sets pairing 14-15's, 15-16's,
and 16-17's with lots of styles to choose.  Have fun and keep driving
stainless.

-Mike A.
VIN# : still working on that....


> The topic I started about the built-in Halon fire extinguishers has made
me
> aware of some interesting points both about Halon and about people jumping
> to conclusions.
>
> The most informative and CORRECT e-mails were sent to me off-list.  The
> reason?  These people have had their feelings hurt for giving their
opinions
> and advice on the DML before and don't want to be torn up anymore.  Toby
> picked up on this really well concerning Jim's question about rebuilding
the
> master cylinder.  The first post that I did concerning vacuum bleeding the
> brakes wasn't allowed through by the moderator because he felt that I gave
> bad advice telling people that I dressed the bleed screws threads with
> teflon.  But had he realized that this is a readily available product in
> automotive stores sold specifically for dressing brake bleed screws then
> maybe he would have let it through.  Then when I ask about installing a
> built-in Halon system, my post gets an ill-informed disclaimer built into
> it.  I'm not complaining about the moderators in particular, but these
> instances are the first to come to mind because I like freedom of
speech --
> which also implies freedom to give bad advice or ask stupid questions.
> Whatever happens, we still end up taking the good with the bad.  I would
> rather weed through off-topic spam than have genuine good DeLorean talk
get
> censored out.
>
> About Halon:  I've learned that this stuff is very safe and effective.  It
> is used a lot in airplanes and even in the space shuttles.  It does NOT
> displace oxygen.  Except for environmental regulations, there are no
> problems with using it in an automobile -- even in a confined passenger
> compartment.  How did I learn this stuff?  From e-mails off list that
> directed me to various web sites.  Now you say, "You saw it on the
internet,
> so it must be true."  No, I don't mean this.  I read a few articles
written
> by the EPA and some companies selling the stuff.  Except for the
> environmental regulations, it is a damn good idea to have Halon in your
car.
> I'm still looking into it but am turned off by the legalities.  Halon is
no
> longer manufactured in the US, and the replacemnt for it will be phased
out
> in the future also for environmental reasons.  Maybe by then they will
have
> a a better substitue for it, but I'm not anxious to install a system in my
> car and not be able to keep it charged.  I've had small Halon
extinguishers
> before and had to throw them all away because they leaked and I couldn't
get
> them refilled!  The Halon they contained was identical to R-12, and this
> stuff is difficult to keep bottled up.  I've had a few cans of R-12 go
empty
> on their own, too.  The next time I find myself at a marine supply house,
> I'm going to see what Halon systems they have for sale.  I don't believe
> that CFC's really do anything to the ozone layer anyway.  Coincidently all
> this regulation crap came about at the same time that the patent on Freon
> expired.
>
> As far as over-moderation goes, it was really interesting to meet some of
> the moderators in Memphis.  They all treated me with kid-gloves.  But it's
> no wonder.  Y'all don't get to see my messages that they don't let
through.
> Once I had a few beers too many and started a post calling them all a
bunch
> of "twisted bastards".  The results were really interesting.  Some of them
> showed genuine concern for my feelings while others just categorically
> threatened to ban me from the list.  Well, none of us are perfect.  But it
> really disturbs me when otherwise well written on-topic posts seem to just
> disappear with no explaination.  Will they ever make me a moderator?  Not
a
> chance!  :-)
>
> My next post is going to be a re-run of a very on topic humorous post that
> presumeably never made it past the moderators.  If you enjoy reading my
> "column" and don't see this one posted, then e-mail me off list and I'll
> forward it directly to you.  It's a true story and a laugh riot.
>
> Walt    Tampa, FL
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>





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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:11:23 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: No A/C Fan

Mike,

Your "no blower motor with a burning smell" condition is probably the result
of a burnt out resistor set at the blower motor (see P.M. 7/1/0 #2). Contact
me directly for trouble shooting procedures.

DMC Joe Help Club
DeLorean Web Mall:  http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/home.html

DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv

----- Original Message -----
From: "The Atkinson Family" <mikeatk_at_dml_cox.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 5:26 AM
Subject: [DML] No A/C Fan


> I haven't posted in a while because everything has been running fine.
Well
> last night that changed a bit.  I took the car for a short drive and
almost
> immeditally smelled thing burning like an electrical short, so I turned
> around and went home.  Didn't see any smoke just smelled it.  Today, after
> looking the fuses and engine bay over and not seeing anything wrong I
> started it back up and the interior A/C fan wouldn't come on.
>
> I could hear the compressor cycling outside but no inside fan, I tried all
> four positions and nothing.  The funny thing is the A/C was ON when I
> smelled something burning and it kept running until I got home.  I suppose
> the Fan has given up but wanted to get other peoples opinion first and see
> what everyone else thought it might be.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Atkinson
> vin 16232





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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:13:29 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>
Subject: RE: Rivnuts

You found a metric jacknut??  I looked in to the jacknut alternative, but found no metric available in small quantities.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tmasterlc [mailto:tmasterlc_at_dml_msn.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:31 AM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [DML] Rivnuts
> 
> 
> I've used what is called a jacknut.  Looks just like a rivnut after 
> it is installed.  They kinda work like wall anchors...expanding 
> behind the surface as you tighten the bolt.  A little hard to find 
> but they are out there and you need no special tools.



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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:20:56 -0000
From: "dtt2150" <dtt2150_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Mode switch

Do you grease the flat part or the one with the grooves.  What grease 
would you use?

thanks

Mike

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., dherv10_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Paul, I've taken several apart and cleaned them also, did you 
grease the 
> rubber diaphragm before putting it back together. Most of the time 
they only 
> go back one way. You might also look at the pictures on my Talk & 
View page 
> under reference, it might help.
> John Hervey
>  http://www.specialtauto.com/ref_main.shtml
> 
> << So I've taken my mode switch apart and the diaphragm was clogged 
with dirt
>  and grim and a bit sticky, it's now all cleaned up and looking 
new....
>  
>  Put it together and its worse than before, could I have put it 
back in the
>  wrong setting?? if so how can I check if its right and line it up 
with the
>  right vacuum outlets?? >>




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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:46:53 EDT
From: Delorean17_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: A/C question

Hi,
    My AC system was working fine but unfortunately I had to vacuum the R12 
out while cleaning out my evaporator box.  A friend of mine is letting me use 
his 30lb tank of R12 to refill the system next week.  Before I re-charge it, 
what parts in the system should I replace?  Last time it was charged I had it 
leak tested and none were found so hopefully it hasn't changed.  I would 
really appreciate any info on what I should replace and where I can get the 
parts.

Thank You

Dave



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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:22:22 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Halon-Blah Blah Blah

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
<SNIP>
>I don't believe
> that CFC's really do anything to the ozone layer anyway.  Coincidently all
> this regulation crap came about at the same time that the patent on Freon
> expired.
<SNIP>
> Walt    Tampa, FL

CFC's themselves are not what causes ozone damage per se. CFC= 
Chlorine, Fluorine, and Carbon. Or as it's formula is written, C3FC. Ultraviolet 
light reacts with the CFC chain, and will bust it apart.  Ozone itself is three 
oxygen molecules together written as O3. That's rare because oxygen usualy 
only will bond with 1 other molecule due to it's number of electrons, which if 
you notice, is why oxygen tanks have O2 printed on them.

So when the CFC chain is broken, the Chlorine molecules with steal a single 
oxygen atom from the ozone chain. Cl+O3= ClO & O2. Unfortunetly, it doesn't 
stop there. A stray single oxygen molecule can steal the single oxygen 
molecule from the new chain. ClO+O=Cl & O2. This means that the chlorine is 
now free again to rip apart another ozone chain, thus the cycle of destruction 
begins again. Now couple this with the amount of CFC's, and other ozone 
depleting gasses that are released, and you can see how the desturction of 
ozone outwieghs the natural replenishment of them.

So yes, CFC's do have an impact on the ozone. BUT, they are not the only 
thing that causes ozone damage. When it gets into areas that are cold 
enough (like Antartica), compunds with sulfer, like Carbonyl Sulfide, will 
become britttle, and break apart. Thus they too can destroy ozone. Carbonyl 
Sulfide (COS) appears naturally from both volcanos, but is also created when 
diesel emissions are exposed to UV rays. The COS gets cold, breaks apart, 
and the extra oxygen molecule will bind to an ozone chain to destroy it. Unlike 
CFC's though, I don't beleive that it has the ability to renew itself to continue a 
destructive cycle.

So yes, R-12 does indeed harm the ozone layer. Was is production ceased 
due to monitary reasons? Probably. With all the other chemicals that are 
currently produced, and released that cause damage to the ozone layer, R-12 
does certainly appear to have been a convient scapegoat. R-134a is known 
as a HydroFlouroCarbon, or HFC. It's a stronger chemical chain, so it's less 
likely to be broken apart by UV rays. But it still can be broken apart, and can 
damage ozone. So in laymens terms, this means that R-143a is only going to 
do less damage than R-12. On the other hand, since it is more stable, it helps 
to contribute to global warming since it's a greenhouse gas. Combine this with 
the fact that an R-143a refrigeration systems in cars take more effort to run, 
and thus use more fuel and spit out more exhaust, and you'll pump out more 
harmful gasses into the enviornment anyhow.

So in the end, if you want to keep your refridgeration systems in good health, 
run them at least once a month. This helps to circulate the oil inside to 
lubricate the seals. In addition, it helps to wash down the radiators on them as 
well with a good pressure water stream every so often. Plus any other 
maintenace reccomended helps as well.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:46:36 -0400
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Where is the common electrical leak?

Martin,

You said:
        "...Hi Joe, sorry but this is not correct. ..............The red
wire is simply the power supply to the solenoids."

I respectfully disagree.

        The red 12 volt wire powers the lock module. The purple wire, which
feeds the solenoids, is on the output side of the module therefore once the
red wire is unplugged all power to the circuit is removed. Although
unplugging the solenoid harness will protect the solenoids from burn out the
lock module will still cause a battery drain if the red power feed is left
connected to a malfunctioning module.

DMC Joe Help Club
DeLorean Web Mall:  http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/home.html

DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Gutkowski" <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Where is the common electrical leak?


> Hi Joe, sorry but this is not correct. The red wire is simply the power
> supply to the solenoids. The leak comes from the module itself,
> specifically the 20+ year old capacitors going bad. The purple wire in
> the lock module's main harness is the permanent 12v feed. Un-plug the
> main harness as well as the red wire is my advice.
>
> I've said it before and I'll say it again; the stock module is a poor
> design, but it IS servicable. Replace the relays with sealed units and
> add some protection diodes. It won't last as long as a LockZilla, but
> you'll still get several thousand switches out of it for an outlay of
> only a few $$ and half an hour with a soldering iron.
>
> Martin
> #1458
>
> DMC Joe wrote:
>
> >Joe,
> >
> >You are correct concerning disconnecting the red wire from the stock door
> >lock module. For more details check out my article on this subject:
> >http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/doorlock.html
> >
> >DMC Joe Help Club
> >DeLorean Web Mall:  http://www.geocities.com/dmcjoe/home.html
> >
> >DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv
> >
>






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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:25:39 EDT
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: R-134a Conversion -- as a kit?


How many of you folks would be interested in a complete R-134a conversion kit 
for the DMC?  


   I think a R-134 "kit" is a great idea, but here is a little additional 
information for what it's worth:

  We converted a Delorean over to R-134 about 4 years ago to see how it would 
perform. We did all the regular stuff required to do the conversion 
correctly, like replace the oil and all the O-rings and the dryer and all the 
other stuff required and then charged the system up with R134. The results 
are the car has run fine for the last 4 years and 40,000 or so miles. The AC 
system puts out a decent amount of cold air and it will keep the interior 
comfortable on a normal Midwest summer day of 85 or so, but it definitely 
does not perform as well as the R-12 systems in regards to cold air output, 
but we kinda expected that going in to all this. The one "problem" we have 
run into is the original hoses on the car are porous enough that they allow 
the R-134 to seep out over time, causing the system to run low on 
refrigerant. And this "problem" seems to have gotten worse as time has gone 
on. We are to the point now that in order to keep the system operating 
correctly we are having to add a small (12oz) can of R-134 to the system once 
a month. And, yes, we have checked everything over, and, no, there are no 
other leaks in the system. As time goes on it seems the original R-12 hoses 
are loosing there ability to contain the R-134 more all the time. 
    Does anyone else have any similar experiences with this ?

     Marty


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 00:27:01 -0000
From: "fluxmcfly" <bfreyguy_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: how do you fix cracks in lower engine cover?

I have one crack in my lower engine cover and one bolt is broken off 
the hinge.How can you fix this crack,can you use bondo or
some type fiberglass.Does anybody know how to remove the hinge from 
the car? Any help would be appreciated very much.
thank you   Brian

bfreyguy_at_dml_aol.com




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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:00:48 -0500
From: Farrar Hudkins <fhudkins_at_dml_uno.edu>
Subject: The DML is our friend :) [was: New DML member in Miami..wants to learn]

JT,

I agree with what Richard said. I'm now 23 and have wanted a DMC since I was old enough to drive. But the first thing I did after getting a job was to get an everyday car, and pay it off. I decided to wait until after college, when I was fully employed so that I could afford to enjoy the DMC as it was meant to be enjoyed, because I would not buy a perfect one and no doubt it would need periodic repair and maintenance which would require taking it off the road for a few days at a time. At the moment I'm living frugally (a.k.a. small apartment, do my own cooking, have savings account, single, etc.) so I can save up a good $10 - $12k for a driveable DMC that I can tweak, tap, and twiddle to my heart's content.

In the meantime, I've been on this list for a few years and have collected LOADS of information. I've even saved the best bits for when I get the car. Many experts are on this list, and as you can see the vendors are here as well giving generously of their time and knowledge every day.

There is the occasional acrimonious exchange on the DML, but we must understand that the reason people are on this list is because they are all dedicated to the DeLorean automobile (and in many cases its creator). That kind of love is hard-earned. So have patience and eventually you will have your dream car, and thanks to the DML you will have all the information you need to keep it going for a long time.

Regards,
Farrar Hudkins (patience lessons $25/hour)
New Orleans, LA
'98 Ranger XLT "Laggy"
--
www.wwno.org
504-280-7000




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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:18:04 -0500
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Website Update

great job, i love the pictures and keep up the great work.

mark



Martin Gutkowski wrote:

> Hi All
>
> I've just done a site update, including several photos of #2727's
> engine, stripped down to the block to get the cylinder heads properly
> sorted. There are a few other new photos too. Follow the links to NEWS
> for more info. www.delorean.co.uk
>
> Best Wishes
>
> Martin
> #1458
> DOC UK
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/