From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1106
Date: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:52 PM

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There are 11 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re:RE: Replacement transmission?
From: heliconia_at_dml_juno.com

2. Re: Replacement transmission?
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>

3. Re: New kid on block (#5939) Question #1
From: "theshovel1224" <theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. Re: Tail of the Dragon
From: iznodmad_at_dml_aol.com

5. Re: Tail of the Dragon
From: "Sean Howley" <delorsche_at_dml_att.net>

6. Re: Replacement transmission?
From: "jeremys_im" <jeremysmail_at_dml_softhome.net>

7. Re: Re: Door Adjustments
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>

8. re: New kid on block (#5939) Question #1
From: "Jason Jones <PC Upgraders, Inc>" <jason_at_dml_pcupgraders.com>

9. Re: Replacement transmission?
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

10. Re: Door Adjustments
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

11. Re: Tail of the Dragon
From: Scott Cagle <sharkywtrs_at_dml_delorean.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:17:49 GMT
From: heliconia_at_dml_juno.com
Subject: Re:RE: Replacement transmission?

hello
...so i'm still looking for a better idea of the auto transmission.
Renault R30 was a good lead.. but that seems to be just a model# for the car. The R30 was a rather sweet late 70's /80's exec. model that did come with a PRV v6 and auto trans..
any more ideas? is this the same auto trans unit?

i may be in france sometime soon, so you can guess what i'm thinking..

chris rickards




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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 17:58:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>
Subject: Re: Replacement transmission?


[ moderator's note: Correction for the statement below regarding the final drive unit, the ring gear can be swapped 180 degrees. ]

On Sun, 7 Jul 2002 Foleyverre_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

> My question: with a rear-mounted engine, what kind of tranny is it? 
> transverse?

It's not a transverse mount.  The crankshaft runs parallel to the length
of the car.  The manual transmission works its magic by a reversed final
drive unit.  But apparently you cannot just flip over the standard ring
gear, the whole final drive section is different.  The auto, I have no
clue.  But if you are swapping it it does not matter.

You might consider a standard D manual transmission.  The frame is
different between auto and manual, so you'd have to find a car that was
manual to start with or do a frame swap, but it saves swapping a
completely foreign transmission and it is considerably stronger than the
auto.  The manual transmission, if it's in excellent condition will
reportedly hold about 300 ft.lbs of torque, the auto less than 200.

> what "modern" car would use a rear mounted engine/tranny? porshe?

Porsche 911 transmissions are reported to fit pretty well.  Although I
have not personally seen one installed in a D, the 911 gearboxes are
pretty compact, turn the right direction and (on some models) incredibly
strong.  And Kennedy Engineering can make an adapter for them.

> Hybrid car with style... A honda spoon engine with trans was available
> for less than $10k not too long ago here.

Honda engines turn backwards.  So that would probably not be the best
choice.  Although I have heard that some model Honda engines do turn the
right direction now, maybe this is one of those :}

There are a lot of good options for engines these days... Volkswagen's
unique new W8 that is now an option on the Passat, Mazda has a new
nonturbo rotary coming, Subaru's WRX turbo 4, the well-known Northstar V8,
all of them smaller and not heavier than the PRV and all making 250 or
more HP... it is a good time for engines :}




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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 22:02:52 -0000
From: "theshovel1224" <theshovel1224_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New kid on block (#5939) Question #1

Yes, you probably have a bad accumulator.  The quick hot start fix
is to unplug the blue connector from the cold start valve and the gray
connector from the control pressure regulator.  Then plug the gray
plug into the cold start valve.  The car should start.  Once the car
is running, put the connectors back.

Yes, the Yahoo archive search engine is absolutely WORTHLESS
It only searches in about the last 2 weeks of posts and hardly ever
returns anything useful.
Go to  http://www.dmcnews.com/search.html    and use the Google
search engine.  Works a 1,000 times better.

John Yeoman



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> #5939 is now in Virginia, halfway to new home in North Carolina.
> 
> We'll take these questions one at a time ...
> (Apologies for re-asking a question that's been addressed 100,000 
> times but I can't get Yahoo's "Search Archive" feature to work).
> 
> Question #1: Hot Starting (bad accumulator?)
> 
> Car has stock Bosch fuel injection. Runs fine. Starts cold.
Problem: 
> won't restart hot. Am currently using ether (sorry guys, but it's
the 
> only way to get out of the parking lot). Suspect it's a bad fuel 
> accumulator. Have located colored electrical connectors on
firewall, 
> but can't remember which colors to switch. What is temporary hot
start 
> fix AGAIN?
> 
> BTW: have no documentation on car yet (will be part of that big 
> initial parts purchase) -- where exactly is fuel accumulator
located?
> 
> Have beaucoups of other questions, but we'll "start" with just this 
> one (humor) ...
> 
> Bill Robertson
> North Carolina
> #5939





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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:33:47 EDT
From: iznodmad_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Tail of the Dragon

Hello Scott,
       You have just discovered one of the planned drives (attractions) that 
the Pigeon Forge Area has to offer.  The ETDOC has organized 2 DeLorean 
drives out into the Dragon.  The 1st one was attended by Ken and he really 
seemed to enjoy the ride.  In fact I believe there was a video shown at one 
of the events in Memphis about US129.  I know the video exists b/c I saw it.  
I am confident Ken will include at least one opportunity to cruise out to the 
dragon.  Perhaps the ETDOC can plan another run, since the dragon is always 
very popular during club events. Are there any list members interested in 
driving the Dragon sometime towards the end of summer?  I am sure we could 
get a nice bunch of Ds to drive the Dragon.  How many of you would like to do 
a driving tour?  

Regards,
Darren Decker 
#5000  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:21:37 -0400
From: "Sean Howley" <delorsche_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Tail of the Dragon

I am very fortunate that I live only a few miles from "The Dragon".  As this
is the case, I am always looking for a reason to drive it.  On a recent
holiday, I was bored and drove it with my Acura Integra.  I just about wore
what was left of the tire away after that run, but boy was it fun!  Scott,
it's too bad that you didn't hook up with me before you drove it, because I
would have gone with you.  As Darren mentioned, it is possible (and not too
difficult to talk us into it) that we could set up another ETDOC event near
the end of the Summer with that stretch of road being the focus - as stuff
develops, we will be sure to let all of you hear about it.

If any of you think that you are going to be in the Knoxville area and are
interested in doing the drive, please feel free to let myself or any of our
"members" know and maybe we can produce a small group drive.  As I said, we
are always looking for an excuse to drive that road.

Sean Howley
VIN#2345




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 01:31:48 -0000
From: "jeremys_im" <jeremysmail_at_dml_softhome.net>
Subject: Re: Replacement transmission?

I'm one for staying as original but the 3-speed automatic doesn't 
cut it. I've always felt this was the only real mistake they made. I 
mean they didn't put a 4-speed manual in and I know they had 4-
speed automatics back then. And before anyone suggests it, I 
can't go with the 5-speed due to my bum left knee.

While a transmission AND engine swap would be interesting I'd 
say it's not necessary. The standard engine is capable 
especially with enhancements. Not to mention it only 
complicates things.

My choice would be to put in a 5-speed auto, ideally a tiptronic for 
manual shifts. Since the Porsche manuals seem compatible so 
might the tiptronics. I believe Porsche has been offering them for 
a number of years now. Perhaps before the 911 restyle and 
engine swap.

Sounds like the best idea though would be to get a manual and 
convert it to the Porsche auto.

Now the question is who's capable of accomplishing this. We 
need someone who knows both the Delorean and Porsche 
inside and out.

Jeremy


> what "modern" car would use a rear mounted engine/tranny? 
porshe?
> 
> Porsche 911 transmissions are reported to fit pretty well.  
Although I
> have not personally seen one installed in a D, the 911 
gearboxes are
> pretty compact, turn the right direction and (on some models) 
incredibly
> strong.  And Kennedy Engineering can make an adapter for 
them.



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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:47:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christian Williams <delorean_at_dml_framezero.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Door Adjustments

I for one am voting loudly for struts with temperature valves in them.
Adjusting the tortion bars twice a year just isn't an option for me.

-Christian

On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, jtrealtywebspannet wrote:

> After having done more than 1 door adjustment I also agree that most
> of the time I can do a "door adjustment" by just replacing the strut.
> Some of the adjustments I have done were to LOOSEN the torsion bar. I
> find it is best if the owner can agree to have the doors open pretty
> much by themselves but not all the way. > When you finaly do replace the struts then you will REALLY see
> "bounce"!!!! 
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757



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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:58:13 -0400
From: "Jason Jones <PC Upgraders, Inc>" <jason_at_dml_pcupgraders.com>
Subject: re: New kid on block (#5939) Question #1

Hey Bill mine is about 6 months "New" and have started with all the same questions...  I will try to help out the "Almighty moderators and DeLorean regulars"  Because I know how often they have answered these questions.  Thanks to you ALL!   When you do get Yahoo search to work for the words "Hot Start" you would be overwhelmed.

Once you have a better understanding how the DeLorean's Fuel system works you are more likely to debug the problem easily and step NUMBER ONE is to buy your parts and service manuals and read them cover to cover about the problems you are having.  Many FINE companies out there would be glad to sell you one.  There are SEVERAL reasons why you probably have a hot start problems however almost 90% of all of them are related to the LOSS of fuel pressure in the system after to turn off the DeLorean.  The leak can be from several places starting from the Check Valve located on the Fuel Pump,  the Fuel Accumulator, the check valve at the Fuel Distributor or the fuel distributor.   My Hot Start problem was the O-Ring on the Fuel Distributor/Check Valve  (Thanks Rob Grady and DMC Joe!)  It is easiest to replace the cheapest and easiest parts first however you may also want to check to see if it was done already because most likely may not be the problem it was done by the previous owner.  The Fuel Accumulator (I am told ) is the most common problem however it is NOT always the case.  It could be a leak at your fuel filter but probably not.  Here is a quick test you can try to test the fuel accumulator and it only consists of listening.  If you run your car for a few seconds and then turn it off it SHOULD be quite for at least 15 min...  If you are loosing pressure (I would buy a Fuel Pressure Gauge for the Bosh System to help you ) and the Accumulator IS working then you should heard a loud muffled "Bong" a few times.  This means that it is likely your accumulator is working because it is RE-Charging or pressurizing the system while the leak is happening, but you are loosing pressure somewhere else...check valve, Fuel Distributor etc...  This is NOT a sure-fire method however it does work without getting Dirty.  If you want to test your accumulator you can jack the car up on ramps and start the car for a few seconds to pressurize the system climb under the car and loosen the Small Rubber tube connected to the accumulator see http://jason.kitcarmagazine.com/delorean if there is fuel coming out of the accumulator were that small tube was connected, and I mean more than a dribble, then the accumulator is bad.  That tube is the Fuel return line and is not pressurized so it could dribble NOT spray.  Be sure to wear goggles.  If the Accumulator is bad then replace it.  That web page of mine is pretty documented.   Basically you need to be Methodical.  One note though if that car has not been driven in a while it would be VERY VERY wise to siphon the gas out and wipe out the tank and replace any damaged components or hoses.  Stagnant Gas was the worst thing someone could do to their DeLorean. I recently replaced my Siphon tube and it was almost half the size because Gas had soaked in a ruined it. I could look at it wrong and it would tear.  

The temporary hot start fix is to unplug the Cold Start Valve electrical connector and plug it in to the

Hope this helps with your first round of questions!

Jason
Dayton, Ohio 
#3121



Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:13:20 -0000
   From: "content22207" <>
Subject: New kid on block (#5939) Question #1

#5939 is now in Virginia, halfway to new home in North Carolina.

We'll take these questions one at a time ...
(Apologies for re-asking a question that's been addressed 100,000 
times but I can't get Yahoo's "Search Archive" feature to work).

Question #1: Hot Starting (bad accumulator?)

Car has stock Bosch fuel injection. Runs fine. Starts cold. Problem: 
won't restart hot. Am currently using ether (sorry guys, but it's the 
only way to get out of the parking lot). Suspect it's a bad fuel 
accumulator. Have located colored electrical connectors on firewall, 
but can't remember which colors to switch. What is temporary hot start 
fix AGAIN?

BTW: have no documentation on car yet (will be part of that big 
initial parts purchase) -- where exactly is fuel accumulator located?

Have beaucoups of other questions, but we'll "start" with just this 
one (humor) ...

Bill Robertson
North Carolina
#5939



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:59:38 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Replacement transmission?

> There are a lot of good options for engines these days...

I think it is feasible to do an engine swap by moving a front wheel drive
engine/tranny combo to the rear of the DeLorean without turning it around.
To get the CVs to line up you could use universal joints mounted midway on
bearings.  Someone brought a DeLorean with 2 engines in it to the Memphis
show.  If he left the engine out of the rear, he would have an incredible
amount of cargo space -- maybe even room for a rumble seat?  Maybe the lid
to that could be a 3rd gullwing.  I shouldn't mention that.  Someone will go
an do it now.  There is already a monster truck DeLorean with a convertible
and stretch limo in the works.

Walt




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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 23:02:52 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Door Adjustments

> When you finaly do replace the struts then you will REALLY see
> "bounce"!!!! BTW not all struts from all venders are equal.

I have old Lift-O-Mat struts on my doors that are stronger than new PJ Grady
struts.  I'm not saying that the Grady struts are weak because with no strut
at all my doors rest closed.  According to conventional door adjustment
dogma, my torsion bars need to be adjusted up.  My only complaint with these
struts is having to hold the door from bouncing open.  They were on the car
before I owned it, so I have no idea how old they are (more than 2 years
anyway).  Does anyone know which vendor sells this brand?

> Another little tip is to
> cut a small piece of rubber from an inner tube and stick it between
> the rear hinge and where the torsion bar passes by so it cannot get
> scratched. when adjusting torsion bars they can move around and touch
> the hinge, if scratched then the bar will fail.

Amen brother.  On some cars the torsion bar rubs the hinge under normal use.
In this case what has happened is the epoxy has broke loose on the
fiberglass underbody allowing the torsion bars to twist & lift the metal
bracket that they attach to.  The tension of both bars working together
tends to bow the bracket bringing the bars closer together.  Hence, they now
rub on the hinge.  Also this will raise the T-panel and make the bracket
creak as you move the doors.

To test if this has happened on your car, grab the torsion bar with your
finger and pluck it like a string.  If you hear it click on the hinge when
you let go, then you have a serious problem developing.  Now that I fixed
the bracket on my car (See Dave Swingle's article in the DML tech section)
the torsion bars no longer rub.  They were just beginning to show a polished
spot from the hinges.  David T's fix is always good insurance.  On my car I
used a small sheet of teflon.  It wore quite heavily before I fixed the
bracket.

Walt ("It's not heat, it's the humility." -- Tucker)





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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:32:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Cagle <sharkywtrs_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Tail of the Dragon


Anyone interested in setting up another drive down the dragon before August?  I'd love to have one last go at it before my DMC becomes a coastal car.  I've driven it twice with the ETDOC, and would love one more chance to go at it before I leave the land of curves for the land of, well, other things.


Scott




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