From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1115
Date: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:15 PM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: rear fascia broken bolts
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>

2. RE: Incorrect door struts.
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>

3. Re: door strut gas pressure?
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>

4. Re: Incorrect door struts.
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>

5. DMC-12 Documentary on History Channel
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

6. Re: My entry to "The Car I Loved Most" Contest
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>

7. Re: Clutch problem
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>

8. Re: Incorrect door struts.
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>

9. Re: Clutch problem
From: Louie G <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>

10. Re: Incorrect door struts.
From: "basfe25" <dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com>

11. Question: Tire Sizes
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

12. Re: Putting back the old fuel lines
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

13. " The DeLorean Car" on History Channel
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

14. RE: Re: Incorrect door struts.
From: "Rob van der Veer" <rob.van.der.veer_at_dml_delorean-europe.com>

15. Re: Flooded D
From: Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>

16. Re: Incorrect door struts.
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

17. Re: Re: Incorrect door struts.
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

18. Polyurethane Front Torsion Bar Bushings
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

19. Looking for vin 7108
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

20. Re: My entry to "The Car I Loved Most" Contest
From: "argent486" <argentum_at_dml_hit.net>

21. Re: Beware of auction on ebay
From: Pittsburgh Delorean <pittsburghdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:47:24 -0000
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>
Subject: Re: rear fascia broken bolts

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> While removing the rear fascia
> the bolts on the lower part that hold it to the metal plate located
> behind the muffler snapped one by one
> is there a way to remove these bolts from the fascia?
> Has this ever happened to anybody else?
> What are my option now?
> I don't want to drill through the fascia to reinforce it to the 
plate, 
> Any help is much appreciated!
>  
> Thanks
> Kenneth
> 05541

Hi Ken.  I've had this problem, as my Delorean was once very rusty.  
I suspect others have this trouble too.  Because the studs are molded 
into the fascia, there is no easy way to remove them. A minimally 
destructive method I've had good luck with is to use a Dremel type 
rotary tool with their tiny cutoff wheel or a sharp blade to cut out 
the old stud along with its rectangular or round base plate, which is 
molded into the plastic of the fascia.  Since the cutting and gluing 
is all done from the inside of the fascia, there won't be any visible 
evidence of your surgery from the outside of the car.  I exercise 
great care during the cutout phase not to pierce the fascia, which 
would make a hole visible from the outside.  After cleaning out the 
debris (very important), and prepping with alcohol, I used an epoxy 
product called PC-7 to glue in the new studs.  I was generous with 
the glue, to the point that the mounting surface of the new studs was 
about 1/8 higher than the old studs.  I felt that the extra joint 
integrity was worth the small geometry change.  PC-7 can be very 
messy, until you get the hang of it.  It smooths well with alcohol. 

In my area, replacement studs were inpossible to find, so I used 
machine screws.  In my case, sticking with original equipment isn't a 
big deal.  If it is in your case, I think some vendors sell the real 
studs.

Good luck.

Rick Gendreau
11472










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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:03:56 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>
Subject: RE: Incorrect door struts.

This is the situation I was talking about in post: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/message/26676

Could you provide your source to the list?  Perhaps save someone else from this problem?

If you purchased it from a reputable DMC vendor, it may be possible that their supplier changed the design and don't even know about this problem themselves.  Warn other customers who may be planning to install new struts in the near future.

Have you asked the vendor to accept responsibility for the damage their part caused?  A little bad publicity on the DML may convince them it is in their best interest to fix your car.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: twinenginedmc12 [mailto:twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:01 AM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Incorrect door struts.
> 
> 
> I recently purchased a set of door struts.  Unfortunately, the 
> geometry of the replacement struts was not compatible with the 
> original struts, or the car itself.  The cylinder body of the 
> replacement strut was about 5mm longer than the original Stabilus 
> Lift-o-mat struts.  I failed to notice this small but very important 
> difference, and installed one of the struts, and to my horror found 
> that the strut mounting post on the roof support was bent during the 
> very first trial door closure.  It turned out the cylinder body 
> bottomed out against the mounting post, and because of the geometry 
> involved, pushed against the post with a force of what I later 
> calculated was about 2500 pounds.  I would advize anyone replacing 
> their struts to measure the new versus the old, to verify that you're 
> not receiving one of these subtly, but dangerously wrong struts, 
> unless you have complete faith in your supplier.  I expect that any 
> unfortunate soul who inadvertently buys and installs a set of these 
> incorrect struts, and puts his trust in the supplier, is risking 
> destruction of the mounting boss down the road due to stress fatigue 
> failure.  
> Personally, I find the sale of an improperly specified strut that is 
> meant to hold a 100+ pound piece of metal in the air safely over my 
> or my passenger's head a reprehensible act.  
> 
> Rick Gendreau.
> 
> 11472 twin engine Delorean.
> 
>
> 



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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:07:16 -0000
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>
Subject: Re: door strut gas pressure?

Hi Walt.

I was wondering that very thing this morning when I tried to replace 
my struts.  I pushed on the struts, and also couldn't push it, but 
sensed that it was close.  So I'm guessing it takes about 250 lbs to 
start to move it.  I'm also guessing that the surface area of the 
piston is about .3 square inch, giving a pressure of about 800 psi at 
the extended state, probably a little more compressed. But that's 
just a guess times a guess.  It's in the right order of magnitude, I 
suspect.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I'm curious to know if anyone can say how much gas pressure is in a 
door
> strut?  Or at least an order of magnitude.  I know that even a 
strut that is
> too weak to budge the door still has so much pressure that I can't 
compress
> it by leaning on it with all my weight.
> 
> Walt (had too much caffeine with dinner :-)




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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:45:49 -0400
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>
Subject: Re: Incorrect door struts.

You aperently just missed the thread that talked about this!  Did you get
your struts from a vendor or some auto parts store?  Though more expensive,
read countless messages on doors and other vital parts being damaged from
generic parts.  If you go to a store for a part, attention to detail is
imparitive.  Compare your replacing part to the part you are installing.
Close the door SLOWLY and feel for binding.  Nontheless, I would rather pay
for peace of mind and trust a vendor.

My 2 cents,
              Mike A.
----- Original Message -----
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:01 AM
Subject: [DML] Incorrect door struts.


> I recently purchased a set of door struts.  Unfortunately, the
> geometry of the replacement struts was not compatible with the
> original struts, or the car itself.  



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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:27:51 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: DMC-12 Documentary on History Channel

Good news: History Channel is showing documentary on DMC-12 7/15/02
5:30 pm.

Bad News: History Channel is showing documentary as part of "History's
Greatest Blunders Marathon."

Bill Robertson
Mechanic buddy still spraying exhaust manifold studs w/ penetrating
oil in VA ...
#5939




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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:20:36 -0400
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: My entry to "The Car I Loved Most" Contest

Ooh fun!  I will contribute too.

Ode to my D

Rising morning sun
wouldnt it be fun
if it would only run
My delorean?

Expensive to have bought
A fast car it is not
people think its hot
and drive in my blind spot

I will shoot to the floor
if I see once more
a head pop in my door
"where's the flux capacitor!?"

break downs I do hate
coolant makes me late
i do wish this crate 
could hit eighty eight.

All the time I pray
stay coolant stay!
If I had my way
I'd drive every day.


Jim 
1537
3ROTOR



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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:12:26 -0000
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: Re: Clutch problem

Paul - I believe that you are correct in your assessment of your D's 
problem.  Replacement is fairly straightforward ... I think that it's 
covered in the Tech section.  Have fun!

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
Winged1

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_b...> wrote:
> Over the past 2 days I have started to suffer from and irritating 
problem my D
> My thoughts are the pipe needs replacing with a stainless braided 
one, 




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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:56:36 -0000
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>
Subject: Re: Incorrect door struts.

Hi Mike.

Thank you for your reply. 
 
Yes, I did just miss the thread about this.  I wish I hadn't.

You bring up a valid point about going with a trusted vendor.  I felt 
the same, which is why I chose to shell out $120 to buy the struts 
from a trusted vendor, as opposed to doing my own shopping.  You 
bring up another valid point about paying attention to detail.  If I 
had paid really close attention, instead of blindly trusting the 
trusted vendor, I might have noticed the subtle difference in 
geometry prior to installation.  I won't make that mistake again.

Your third valid point was your suggestion about closing the door 
slowly, feeling for binding.  To my credit, I did exactly that, but 
could not feel the binding.  I think the bottoming out may have 
happened exactly at the same point as the contact with the latch 
mechanism, which camouflaged any feel I might have had.  After I 
discovered the damage, I also did the math, and figured out the 
leverage involved.  My calculations indicate that at the point at 
which the bottoming-out occured, the mechanical advantage against the 
mounting bolt was about 130 times the force at the door handle.  With 
that much leverage, I don't know whether I could have felt the 
binding, even if the latch weren't camoflaging the contact.  If 
someone else were holding the door handle in the open position, so 
the latch cleared the pins while I lowered the door, I might have 
felt the few extra pounds of resistance at the point of binding.  An 
end-consumer should not be expected to be able to apply this much 
technical expertise and mechanical aptitude to the installation of 
such a simple part, anyway.

I'm still deliberating whether I will disclose the source of these 
parts on the DML or not.  If you wish to know, write me directly.  
I've ordered new struts from a different vendor, and will be 
rigorously comparing their geometry and function with the suspect 
struts.  I might post the results.  I just wanted everyone to be 
aware they're out there, so they could save a few hours of hassle.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.

Rick Gendreau








In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_n...> wrote:
> You aperently just missed the thread that talked about this!  Did 
you get your struts from a vendor or some auto parts store? 



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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:44:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louie G <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Clutch problem

Before you drop any money, *thoroughly* flush your system until the fluid runs clean. Check your master and slave cylinders to make sure they aren't leaking. If the car still behaves the same way, then try the braided stainless line. I'd also go ahead and get an adjustable clutch link. At $30, it's been an invaluable addition to my car.

Louie Golden
VIN 10115 Sanford, NC



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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:23:16 -0000
From: "basfe25" <dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Incorrect door struts.

Rob at PJ Grady has a Heavy Duty Lower Door Loft Support Brackets 
(P/N 108563G) that will replace the bent bracket. I suggest getting 
this since the bracket already bent. If you bend it back it will 
weaken it more and even putting the correct strut on it will 
probably bend/break it. He also has the correct door lift pistons 
that he has custom made.

http://www.pjgrady.com/lgspec.asp?id=7

Steve


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> I recently purchased a set of door struts.  Unfortunately, the 
> geometry of the replacement struts was not compatible with the 
> original struts,....... and to my horror found that the strut mounting post on the roof support was bent during the very first trial door closure.



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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:59:45 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Question: Tire Sizes

Am going to take fresh tires to VA for final leg of journey home. What
are optimal sizes? Car currently has 195 60/14 and 235 60/15. Front
end has not been lowered yet but will be eventually. Rims are of
course stock.

Bill Robertson
Counting the days ...
#5939





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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:03:36 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Putting back the old fuel lines

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_v...> wrote:
<SNIP>
>The question is, can over-torquing them cause the fuel to get choked
> off?
<SNIP>

I don't know about choking the fuel supply off, but I doubt it. What 
I do know though is that you will want to be careful when "torquing" 
the fuel system bolts. I accidently did this one time on the return 
on the Control Pressure Regulator, and it sheared the bolt in half. I 
was lucky because my local mechanic let me dig thru his old pile of 
DeLorean & Volvo parts to find a replacement. So as a warning, just 
be careful with those bolts.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:14:25 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: " The DeLorean Car" on History Channel

Apologies guys. When I saw advertisement for documentary on "the
DeLorean Car," I naturally assumed documentary would feature "the
DeLorean Car."

Was interesting footage of plant, however.

Bill Robertson
Trying to remember the last time I saw lapels as big as JZD's
#5939





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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:36:50 +0200
From: "Rob van der Veer" <rob.van.der.veer_at_dml_delorean-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Incorrect door struts.

Steve,

I've been figuring out how to replace the door support brackets. The only
way I found (without actually doing it yet) required disassembling a big
deal of the car.

Does anybody on the list have any experience replacing the door brackets? If
so, what would be the preferred procedure?

Rob.


-----Original Message-----
From: basfe25 [mailto:dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com]
Subject: [DML] Re: Incorrect door struts.

Rob at PJ Grady has a Heavy Duty Lower Door Loft Support Brackets
(P/N 108563G) that will replace the bent bracket. 



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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:33:41 +0200
From: Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>
Subject: Re: Flooded D

On 15-07-2002, Willie Mack wrote:

> My D was sitting outside all weekend,
> and it has been raining all weekend.
[snip]
> I just put new door seals on the doors.
> Where could the car be leaking from?

If you changed your seals, maybe you pushed them onto the ridges
of the body too far? I had this on my first attempt.
The correct way for me was to JUST seat them so they would stay
on by themselvesand then properly seat them by closing the door.

Unfortunately the seals I used (non-original) were of a SLIGHTLY
different geometry, but different enough to have worn through on
5 spots on my LH door alone in little over a year and a half.

Even worse: I have allready bought original seals allready,
but have had them lying around for about nine months allready
by lack of time. And since they don't leak yet, I'm leaving them
on untill I fix some things that are more important.
Like my RPM-relay not powering up properly anymore...

Good luck,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

------------------------------




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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:23:37 EDT
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Incorrect door struts.

In a message dated 7/15/02 10:14:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com writes:

<< Personally, I find the sale of an improperly specified strut that is 
 meant to hold a 100+ pound piece of metal in the air safely over my 
 or my passenger's head a reprehensible act.  >>

Where did your bad strut come from?
Jim 6147



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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:29:59 EDT
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Re: Incorrect door struts.

In a message dated 7/15/02 6:03:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com writes:

<< Rob at PJ Grady has a Heavy Duty Lower Door Loft Support Brackets.... He 
also has the correct door lift pistons that he has custom made.>>

I installed Grady's door lift struts last month. They are very nice...
Jim 6147



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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:34:22 EDT
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Polyurethane Front Torsion Bar Bushings

FYI,
Summit Racing has a front polyurethane torsion bar bushing and bracket that 
is a direct bolt on replacement. (This is the frame bushing and bracket, not 
the lower control arm bushing) Part # is ENS-9-5123G, $15.69 a pair.
Jim 6147



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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:53:23 EDT
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Looking for vin 7108

I am looking for Warner vin number 7108 
can you please contact me privately 
thanks 
Ken



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 04:34:34 -0000
From: "argent486" <argentum_at_dml_hit.net>
Subject: Re: My entry to "The Car I Loved Most" Contest

Jim,

I'm still trying to recover from excessive laughter.

I'm glad someone liked something of mine enough to make a parody so 
quickly! Your version is great, kind of describes what I've really 
been going through since I purchased my D back in April. Good luck on 
your coolant problems. Thanks for the laughs.

Matt Metzinger
VIN 961 - KS Tag TIMELES



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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:32:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pittsburgh Delorean <pittsburghdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Beware of auction on ebay

I was curious, too, so I tossed this up (
http://www.humvee.net/~jim/ ) to compare each at
equal-to-original sizes.  Sure looks like the exact
same picture to me - just resized.

I've sure become leary of all Delorean related eBay
auctions, lately.  It's funny considering that I not
only bought mine on eBay, but I bought it from an
auction where the top bidder bailed out, so I agreed
to pay the same price off eBay.  The seller wasn't
even selling their own - rather a friends car.

A few minor problems with the car, more than stated,
but overall it sounds like I got real lucky.

I've sure paid for that luck, though, in 3 different
auctions, I purchased small Delorean parts.  In all
three cases, some bad luck - but that last was so bad
it will end up in court!  (What's worse, is that it's
someone who also sells on this list.)

Anyone else have any bad experiences buying Delorean
parts on eBay?

- Jim vin 2816



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