From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1121
Date: Saturday, July 20, 2002 12:15 PM

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There are 24 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Open Invitational Door Strut Test
From: "tmpintnl" <>

2. Re: driving with doors open?
From: "Mike Aninger" <>

3. Re: Re: RPM-relay relay
From: "Walter Coe" <>

4. Driver Door lights
From: "Scott Mueller" <>

5. RE: Delorean owners in Tucson, AZ - want to get together?
From: "Darkstar" <>

6. Re: Delorean owners in Tucson, AZ - want to get together?
From: "tp8534" <>

7. Are there any Delorean owners in Gainesville, FL?

8. Re: My delorean for sale
From: "tp8534" <>

9. Re: Door strut debacle
From: "tp8534" <>

10. Re: Door strut debacle
From: "Walter Coe" <>

11. Trying to defend my love of the DeLorean
From: "_designer_" <>

12. Delorean Depot?

13. Re: Driver Door lights

14. Re: Driver Door lights

15. purchasing experiences from SpecialTAuto?
From: "content22207" <>

16. Re: Driver Door lights
From: "Walter Coe" <>

17. Re: Re: Door strut debacle

18. Greetins from Elkhart Lake!! And a question...
From: "Mike Griese" <>

19. Re: Trying to defend my love of the DeLorean
From: "Joe Thome" <>

20. Tachometer w/ engine swap not working
From: "at88mph" <>

21. stainless louvers
From: "Mike Aninger" <>

22. Brake problem (kinda long)
From: "basfe25" <>

23. Seat covers?
From: "basfe25" <>

24. Delorean Car Show Guidelines -(Long)

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:28:09 -0000
From: "tmpintnl" <>
Subject: Re: Open Invitational Door Strut Test

I was struck by a very humorous thought that I just had to share with 
the List as I read this post from "Professor Walt" - I remember 
getting all kinds of somewhat negative comments from people about how 
far over their heads I shot with my little piece on trailing arm bolt 
analysis. This analysis from "Dr. Coe" makes me sound like a 
simpleton.  This is a fascinating thread on these struts ... who'da 
thunk it?  

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:

> And if you understand any of this, join the geek club.  
> Walt (the geek)


Message: 2
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:10:48 -0400
From: "Mike Aninger" <>
Subject: Re: driving with doors open?

Outsider looking in 2 cents worth:  Doesn't that mean that your doors are
out of alignment?  I always thought that a door only needed one hand to

-Mike A.
VIN- working on that...

----- Original Message -----
From: "janvdwouw" <>
Subject: Re: [DML] driving with doors open?

> I pulled the dor closed while in motion. BAD IDEA!
> Because of inertia and wind this caused my door to partially
> jam on the front latch pin. Not too bad fortunately, but just
> enough to not be able to open the door as usual.
> When standing still I close my door with both hands to guide
> it a bit more and close it properly. I obviously couldn't do that
> while driving, so I used one hand and couldn't guide anything.
  Jan van de Wouw


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:26:58 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: Re: RPM-relay relay

> The only thing the coil is connected with is pin 15 giving it 12V
> after ignition and the collector of a BC338. The BC338 pulls
> the coil to ground (well allmost; you lose about 1,4V because
> of the transistor and a diode agains reversed polarity).


I'm not up on transistor engineering like I should be, but my main concern
would be that you don't put too high a load through the transistor with the
new relay.  Over a period of several hour's worth of driving, it could get
too hot.



Message: 4
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:33:08 -0500
From: "Scott Mueller" <>
Subject: Driver Door lights

The lights on the drivers side door will not turn off.

I push in the switches and the lights stay on.

I disconnected the switches and the lights stay on.

I have replaced the three diodes (red, blue and black) that are on the
drivers side of the center consol, and the lights stay on.

The diodes are correctly installed.

The only way that I have been able to get the lights to turn off is by
removing fuse #7.

This bass ackwards wiring, switches on the ground side of the load, is a

I have not made any modifications to the wiring recently.

I  need some suggestions on what else to look for.

Walt, John are you out there.

Scott Mueller


Message: 5
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:25:58 -0700
From: "Darkstar" <>
Subject: RE: Delorean owners in Tucson, AZ - want to get together?

I'll be in tucson on the first with my new delorean i'd love to meet up with
a group.


-----Original Message-----
From: David Cox []
Subject: [DML] Delorean owners in Tucson, AZ - want to get together?

I will be driving to Tucson from San Diego, arriving sometime on the
afternoon of Thursday, 25 Jul, and departing early on Sunday morning, 28


Message: 6
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 22:12:29 -0000
From: "tp8534" <>
Subject: Re: Delorean owners in Tucson, AZ - want to get together?

     You are in luck.  Just about an hour to an hour and a half north
of you will be the AZ-D July event on Saturday, 7/27.  We're meeting
at a club member's house in Chandler around 2 or 3pm and then running
a DeLorean caravan up to the Scottsdale Pavilions Saturday night
Cruise-In/Car Show, about 15 miles north.  Our Veep, Ryan McCaffrey,
has secured 10 spots at the Pavilions for our club so we'll be out
there "in force"....:)  If you feel like making the drive and spending
the afternoon with the AZ-D club we'd certainly like to meet you and
welcome you.

VIN #10365
VIN #16816


Message: 7
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:21:07 EDT
Subject: Are there any Delorean owners in Gainesville, FL?

Hi all,
       I have seen a couple different Deloreans driving around town and I 
would like to try to get in contact with the owners.  I too have a D for 
about a year now and while I don't need anything right now I just thought it 
would be good if we know each other for future reference.  You can reply to 
me privately to

Adam S.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 8
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 22:25:38 -0000
From: "tp8534" <>
Subject: Re: My delorean for sale

Thanks to everyone who emailed me about this car,
     I hope I represented it accurately.  It's nice to hear so many
people are interested in owning a DeLorean, or adding another to their
collection.  This one has the potential to become one of those
reliable daily drivers you hear about with lots of mileage on it and I
don't think I am going to pass it up.  I've contacted Mike to let him
know and we're working on the price.  Again, thanks to all who were

VIN #10365
VIN #16186
Possibly: VIN #10440


Message: 9
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 22:47:39 -0000
From: "tp8534" <>
Subject: Re: Door strut debacle

Hi all,
     I was going through my receipts the other day because I remember
talking with Rob Grady about this situation on my twin turbo, VIN
#16816.  Rob had to replace the ball studs/mounting points on my car
because the car came with these longer struts already installed.  The
PO had ordered and installed them and I have the receipt from DeLorean
Motor Company showing when he bought them.  They had been on the car
about 3 or 4 years.  Rob said they were pretty bent and advised
replacing the ball studs and struts with the correct length, which I
did.  He explained that although the currently installed struts still
had a good charge, I could be faced with the same situation if I
reinstalled them on the new mounting points.  This wasn't an
acceptable option.  True, I could have done this myself for the cost
of parts and shipping alone, but since the car was at Rob's I had him
perform the surgery.  The result is no more binding and undue stress
on the mounting points for the door struts, but it came at a price. 
Labor rates aren't cheap no matter where you go.  It was also
aggravating to have to purchase new struts when the old ones still
were charged and working.  This is definitely something I would rather
have avoided but that's how I got the car so I didn't have control
over it.  It is not extensively modified, although the purists might
disagree with me....:)  (I don't think the twin turbo kit, aftermarket
wheels, or digital dash would have any effect here.)  It has never
been wrecked or in an accident.  
     I don't know if these are the same struts in question but there's
a similarity here.  My old struts came from the same place and the
same thing happened to the mounting points.  I think everyone should
check these points like you check the TABs.  Not only would it be
dangerous if the ball stud broke but it would also be pretty
embarrassing to launch a door only to hear a *SNAP* and have it slam
closed or get damaged on a free-hanging strut.  Keep an eye out.

VIN #10365
VIN #16816


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:02:22 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: Door strut debacle

I just noticed today that my car has strut problems too.  The lower ball
joint mounted in the fiberglass is noticeably bent on both the driver &
passenger side.  I had forgotten that I had noticed this before.  At the
time I assumed that it was due to things "settling in" and forgot about it.
I came to this conclusion because the drivers side is bent about twice as
much as the passenger side, and since it gets proportionally more use, this
made sense.

My car came from the previous owner with Lift-O-Mat brand struts (the ones
with the black rods).  The paper trail with the car indicates that they were
patronizing DeLorean One.  And Rick Gendreau (Mr. Twinengnedmc12) confirmed
that DeLorean One used to sell these.

Things I have yet to find out:
1) Did the Lift-O-Mat struts bend my ball joints?
2) Or did they bend on their own due to normal use?
3) Or did they bend due old struts that has since been replaced before I
owned the car?

In the next several days I plan to take the struts off and make some
measurements to find out.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 11
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 20:47:36 -0000
From: "_designer_" <>
Subject: Trying to defend my love of the DeLorean

I'm the only DMC owner on this board and you wouldn't believe the 
amount of people who think our cars are trash.  You all are welcome 
to post there just for the fun of it, or just to maintain the D's 
good name.  Let me know what you think!


Message: 12
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 20:08:52 EDT
Subject: Delorean Depot?

Okay this post goes under the heading of opinion....I don't mean to stir up 
the whole vendor thing again but I do have some ideas and they are nothing 
more than basic marketing concepts....I think a nice idea is for the vendors 
to have monthly promotions/discounts on Delorean parts....Customers like to 
feel appreciated and that they are getting their money's worth....

If every month or so one of the vendors lowered there prices on a few select 
items (surplus items, slow moving parts, seasonal items, stuff they are sick 
of looking at) 
it would really give the imoression that the vendors take an interest in 
helping customers save a little money...I will just use the Zilla's as an 
example...lets say they decided to have a special on the Zilla's for 
August..."buy one zilla get 50 bucks off the second"....something like 
that.....or one month have a 10 percent off your parts bill....I am not 
saying drastic price reductions just little reminders here and there that we 
are appreciated...

It would create some more goodwill between owners and vendors...After all we 
do need each other. What we have now is vendors that are also drivers and 
drivers that have become vendors. I have spoken to several DML members about 
prices and most do not paying higher prices for convenience and original 
parts....In marketing there is a fine line in pricing items too high or too 
low. Competition is the number one factor in price determination and it 
applies to Delorean prices as well. The Delorean community is unique because 
of the limited number of cars on the road....Is it better to sell 10 of 
something at $80 dollars or only 5 at $100 bucks. Do the math. Selling more 
items at a lower price can often add more to the bottom line.

I am currently looking buy 3 Zilla's but I am looking at $800 hit....even a 
slight discount may push people who are on the fence or are postponing 
cosmetic repairs or parts..... 

Another idea is for one of the vendors to come up with a branded credit 
card....Alot of retail stores/vendors have their own branded credit cards. 
Credit card companies have embraced this new promotional concept....Most 
people have Gold or Platinum cards....we could have the Stainless Steel card 
:-) Imagine pulling out your credit card with a Delorean picture....Maybe the 
vendors could offer a discount on parts purchases with this card....

Just a few random thoughts....Just completed my MBA and thought I would put 
it to good use....And by the way anyone with tankzilla, lockzilla and the 
remote Zilla on sale email me privately :-) .

Mike C 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 13
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 21:50:57 EDT
Subject: Re: Driver Door lights

Scott,As you know the switches supply the ground for the lights to come on. 
They have to be getting ground from somewhere. I would think from looking at 
the diagram, there must be a wire pinched somewhere on the ground side.I 
would leave the fuse hooked up and while the lights are burning, but the 
switch is off, look for a short to ground. The lights would go off when found.
 Sorry, best I can do.
John Hervey


Message: 14
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 21:55:40 EDT
Subject: Re: Driver Door lights

Scott, I noticed your pulling #7 fuse and the technical manual shows #12 fuse 
powering the circuit.
John Hervey

<< The lights on the drivers side door will not turn off.
 I push in the switches and the lights stay on >>


Message: 15
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 02:00:44 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: purchasing experiences from SpecialTAuto?

Looking towards future parts purchases, am making note of purchasing
experiences. Even though new (to DeLoreans), am impressed with Rob _at_dml_
PJ Grady (can't wait to get my car home to try his door struts).
Houston and LA are obviously 800 pound DeLorean gorillas, with as many
good & bad experiences to match.

My question: has anyone purchased from SpecialTAuto? How was
experience? Parts suitable for D's idiosyncracies?
Any other vendors I should note?

Bill Robertson
#5939 (I think -- it's been *SO* long since I last saw the thing! Did
you know you can actually suffer withdrawal symptoms from a D...)


Message: 16
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 21:41:49 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: Driver Door lights

> I have replaced the three diodes (red, blue and black) that are on the
> drivers side of the center consol, and the lights stay on.

What happens when you disconnect any one or all three diodes?  Does that
turn the light off?

There are two switches for the drivers door.  Did you disconnect both?  Are
the wires you pulled off not touching each other?

These are just shots in the dark, no I mean your lights are on so they are
shots in the light but no I mean...



Message: 17
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 22:57:03 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: Door strut debacle

In a message dated 7/18/02 12:38:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:

<< My original post about the incorrect door struts, 26812, refers to 
 the cylinder body being about 5mm longer than original equipment, not 
 the full extended length of the strut, as Mr. Espey has 
 misinterpreted. >>

Mr. Espey instills little confidence in his products when he doesn't know 
himself the manner in which they deviate from factory spec. Incorrectly 
admitting to, and defending, a non existant excessive extension lenght as a 
"feature" sounds like a defense someone at a computer Software Company would 
employ. Additional spin control by implying modifications and altered door 
geometry is also a fine tactic. 

Admitting your blunder and compensating all affected would be the honorable 
thing to do.  But then profit vs principle becomes the issue. Credit is due 
for the forthcoming nature of Mr. Espey's and  Delorean Motor Company's 
admission as the source. But what does or does not happen next will tell even 

Jim 6147


Message: 18
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 22:16:16 -0500
From: "Mike Griese" <>
Subject: Greetins from Elkhart Lake!! And a question...

I'm spending the weekend attending the vintage
races at Road America.  As part of the event,
you can drive your car on the track during the
lunch break between events.  Today, while 
my DeLorean was being scrutineered prior to the
lunchtime tour, the guy inspecting the car
mentioned that he couldn't recall ever having
a DeLorean on the track at Road America.  
After 20 years, I just can't believe that my
car would be the first.  So, my question to 
the list:

Do any of you know of anyone who has driven
a DeLorean at Road America?

By the way, the car didn't do half bad.  It
needs more brake, more power, and a big
honkin' vent aimed right at the driver.
It was more neutral than I was expecting, 
but then we were speed limited to 70mph.



Message: 19
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 21:27:24 -0700
From: "Joe Thome" <>
Subject: Re: Trying to defend my love of the DeLorean

 The Dupont Registry listed the DeLorean as one of the top 100 cars during
the century which just ended. Maybe some of those people who say the
DeLorean is trash are just jealous because their cars don't get the
attention which the DeLorean always commands.  I supposed one could say they
suffer DeLorean envy.

Joe Thome
VIN 6467


Message: 20
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 00:20:18 -0500
From: "at88mph" <>
Subject: Tachometer w/ engine swap not working

I know there are a few other owners out there that have done similar engine
swaps in their DeLoreans'.  (this is a '94 Chevy Vortec 4.3)  I was
wondering what changes you made to get the tach to work.  I've had
everything working for quite some time now (after I solved my 2 A/C
condenser situation!) and this is the last thing left from making my
DeLorean 100% complete.  One other thing, I've got my fuel pump set to run
constant once the key is turned on via removing the RPM relay and jumping
the two wires (sorry, can't remember the colors but its set to run only with
the key turned in the on position, not jumped to make it run all the time
just to clarify :) ) because, if I put in the RPM relay, the car won't
start.  I believe the tach not working and the car not starting with the RPM
relay in are related.  I'm guessing its related to the white wire that goes
to the RPM relay.  In the Chevy wiring harness and the DeLorean harness, the
tach wire is white.  When I hook the Chevy and the DeLorean wires together,
the car won't start.  I know I could run another tach guage, but I'd really
like to get the DeLorean tach working.  I'm sure with all the
wiring/electrical guru's here, someone will know :) Feel free to email me
off the list :)

Thanks in advance for any help!



Message: 21
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:43:19 -0400
From: "Mike Aninger" <>
Subject: stainless louvers

Just another little something that crossed my mind.  Has anyone out there made SS louvers before?  I thought it would make a nice addition and I'm looking for pics.  Is there any info out there on this?  Thanks for all your past help

-Mike A.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 22
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 16:07:16 -0000
From: "basfe25" <>
Subject: Brake problem (kinda long)

Hi all, here I go with a question on brakes. I just installed a new 
Brake Master Cylinder and bled out the lines (I bled the master 
also). Here is my problem. The rear brakes will lock up when the 
brake pedal is depressed but the front will not...they don't even 
look like they move. Here is the status on the systems: All calipers 
have been rebuilt with new seals and new stainless steel pistons. 
The front calipers had been split apart to clean then re-assembled 
with new inner seals (no leaks). The front brakes also have all new 
brake lines and the rear have some new ones. Before installing the 
master I turned out the nut on the rod that is connected to the 
booster (the rod that pushes the piston in the Master Brake when the 
pedal is depressed) just as instructed when I got the new master 
cylinder. I disconnected all the line in the front and re-checked 
them to make sure there were no blockages, all were clean. The 
system is also filled with Castrol GTLMA brake fluid (DOT 4). I've 
bled the brakes using my wife to press on the pedal while I opened 
the bleeders then release the pedal after I closed off the bleeders 
while I had a rubber hose in a jar of clean brake fluid. I've also 
tried "gravity" bleeding them and nothing seems to work. Like I said 
the rear work great but I can't get the front's to work at all!!

This is driving me crazy!! I bled the system a dozen times following 
the procedure in the workshop manual to no avail, I can only get the 
rear ones to lock. I don't have the engine running when I am doing 
this (to get a vacuum to the booster) since I don't believe this is 
needed to bleed the brakes. If I disconnect the line going into the 
master cylinder that feeds the front and shoot some compressed air 
into it I can the front calipers to lock...this tells me that the 
calipers are working and not I right? I get fluid coming 
out of the bleeder screw when the system is all together also. I 
thought that it may have been a bad master and I exchanged it (the 
master cylinder is from a Delorean vendor, not aftermarket). I 
checked the brass "T" that connects the front right brake and the 
left front brake to the cylinder and it's good and clear from any 
debris. Has anyone run into this problem or am I the only one? Any 
suggestions? I've repaired and bled brakes on dozens of other cars 
with more complex systems in them (example: ABS with differentiating 
valves) and I have had no problems. The Delorean is one of the few 
cars I have seen with the most simplest brake system and I can't get 
the front brakes to work! ARRGGHH.

Thanks in advance,



Message: 23
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 16:08:53 -0000
From: "basfe25" <>
Subject: Seat covers?

Does anyone know of a good pair of cloth seat covers that will fit 
the Delorean seats?



Message: 24
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 12:07:03 EDT
Subject: Delorean Car Show Guidelines -(Long)

  OK, now that the Delorean Car Show in Memphis is over, and everyone has had 
a little time to unwind and relax and reflect on the event a little, we have 
a couple of questions we'd like to present to the DML.
   These questions refer to the General Delorean Car Show that Ken Koncelik 
put on in Memphis and have NOTHING to do with the Delorean Concours that was 
held at the same event. We are NOT discussing anything about the Concours 
here, OK.

   The Delorean Car Show that Ken put on had about 80 cars registered for 
judging. These cars were placed into different classes based on the car show 
"guidelines" that were developed for this event based on information gained 
from the previous Cleveland show. The results from the Memphis show have 
shown us that the single largest class of cars seems to have become the 
"modified" class, with more people entering their cars in the "modified" 
class then the "daily driver" classes.
    And we think this is great !  The time and effort and thought and work 
that has gone into making these "modified" cars reflect their owners tastes 
is fantastic. And the workmanship involved in these cars is first class all 
the way. Many people at the event commented on how the "quality level" of all 
the cars in attendance seems to improve from one show to the next. I think 
this speaks highly of all Delorean owners and their interests and abilities 
with their cars.
   Anyway, Ken's philosophy about his car show is that the show really is not 
his - he feels it belongs to the participants, and he wants everyone involved 
to have an enjoyable time. He also enjoys presenting awards to those who 
participate in the show and feels these awards represent all the time and 
effort the owners have invested in their cars. With the largest growing class 
of cars seeming to be the "modified" class, Ken feels adjustments are needed 
to the car show guidelines for this class. This class may need to be expanded 
and/or broken down into additional classes or changed in some way to allow 
for all the different types of modifications owners are making to their cars. 
This is the question we want to present to the DML. What adjustments need to 
be made to the current car show guidelines to allow all the participants to 
have a fun and enjoyable time and also a feeling of fair and equal treatment 
when it comes to car show awards.

    Now before everyone goes off the deep end, first let it be said that this 
has NOT come about because anyone is complaining about the Memphis show. I 
have not heard from anyone who is unhappy with the Memphis show. All things 
considered I think the Memphis Show was the best so far. And Ken's intent is 
to make these shows bigger and better as he continues into the future. That 
is the reason for this question. Ken truly feels these shows belong to the 
participants, and as a participant he is interested in your thoughts and 
ideas to make this show more enjoyable for you. 
  Second, When you make your comments you also need to consider the entire 
scope of the show and what it is Ken is trying to accomplish. Like anything 
else, there are certain limits within which everyone has to work. The number 
of cars, number of classes, number of judges, detail of scoring, amount of 
time and many other things all have to be realistic and do-able, so to speak. 
It won't do us any good to end up with 50 different classes set up for 100 
cars and at the same time only have 2 judges. And that is another part of all 
of this too. When you think of all the different classes and guidelines you 
want to be included in the show, also think about it from the stand point of 
being a judge yourself and having to follow the guidelines you just set. How 
long do you think it would take you to judge someone else's car, and to what 
detail, and then take that figure and do the math of how many cars are at the 
show and how much time will be required to judge the entire event. The 
numbers are interesting, to say the least. How many days did we say the show 
was going to run ?
   Anyway, we anticipate some pretty good feedback on this. We have heard 
many comments in the past about the car show, both good and bad. Now everyone 
has a chance to make adjustments to the show the way they would like for it 
to be. And, please, the intent of this is to receive positive feedback to 
help make the show better. If there are things you feel are wrong with the 
show that need to be changed, that's fine, we are interested in hearing about 
them. But at the same time offer a positive solution to fix the problem. 
Tearing things apart is easy, fixing them and making them better is a little 
harder. And the intent here is to make them better for everyone.

   Thanks,  Marty


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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