From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1125
Date: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 8:33 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: Transmission change
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>

2. Re: Driver Door lights
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. Re: Air conditioning
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

4. New Delorean owner in Northen NJ
From: "silverdelorean2002" <silvercrw646_at_dml_cs.com>

5. Re: Transmission and Oil question
From: "basfe25" <dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com>

6. air conditioning compressor for sale
From: "C. C. Cameron Putsch" <putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu>

7. Re: Transmission change
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

8. concluding polls
From: "mikesdelorean" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>

9. Re: Re: Delorean Depot?
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

10. Re: Transmission and Oil question
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>

11. West Michigan DMC for sale
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>

12. WTB: interior carpet + seatcovers
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>

13. Re: Another Memphis Update
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

14. ZF Trans swap
From: "dmcjohn" <john.dore_at_dml_fidelity.com>

15. Re: ZF Trans swap
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

16. Re: Transmission and Oil question
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

17. Ann Arbor Mi DMCs
From: heliconia_at_dml_juno.com

18. Door Lights Repaired
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_att.net>

19. Re: Re: Transmission change
From: "Joseph Molino" <foxmul_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

20. Re: Re: Delorean Depot?
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>

21. Re: Another Memphis Update
From: <hbreer_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:44:14 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>
Subject: RE: Transmission change

I believe a Auto to Manual is easier.

The frame (where the shifter is) needs to be modified, the pedal box needs to be swapped.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: foxmul2001 [mailto:foxmul_at_dml_bellatlantic.net]
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 7:23 AM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Transmission change
> 
> 
>  Hey List,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has any experience or heard of anyone 
> changing their transmission from Manual to automatic or auto to 
> manual?  Is this possible?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> joseph
> vin 2850



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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:50:50 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Driver Door lights

There is another possibility. The wires for the door buzzer and the 
courtesy lights might be mixed up and connected onto the same door 
switch. At the driver's door make sure that the wires which are tied 
together (2 per) are only going to one switch each. Better yet just 
remove ALL of the wires on both switches (and on the switch on the 
passenger door too) and see if the problem goes away.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Scott,
> 
> I agree with John.  Most likely you have a short to ground.  Where I 
would
> start looking for it is inside the door particularly in two places:
> 1) Where the main wiring harness comes though under the window.
> 2) Where the end of the harness heads south to the window regulator 
motor.
> 



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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:57:00 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Air conditioning

Two possibiliies come to mind. You could have a slightly undercharged 
system or it could be contaminated. The best approach would be to have 
a shop remove the R-12, vacuum the system and then refill with a 
measured amount. While the system is evacuated it would also be a good 
idea to inspect the orifice tube and if the system shows signs of 
contamination replace the dryer.
 On another topic if the mode switch is hissing rebuild it. With a 
leaking mode switch and the drop in vacuum on acceleration some of the 
actuater doors could be moving on you.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> > When you are driving, however, cool air flows nicely but
> > when you accelerate, the cool air becomes warmer, and when you
> > decelerate the air goes cool again.
> 
> I'm mostly just book smart on this subject with little practical 
experience,
> so take my advice with a grain of salt:
> 
> When the air from your vents gets warmer, are you sure this is the 
case?  Or
> are you just losing air flow from your center vents ?  (



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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:11:24 -0000
From: "silverdelorean2002" <silvercrw646_at_dml_cs.com>
Subject: New Delorean owner in Northen NJ

HEy guys just got my 82' delorean that i have been waiting all my 
life for. Its great with 23K miles. The exterior is near perfect and 
the interior needs a new driver side seat cover. The glove box is 
also faded along with a little on the dash. Other then that the car 
is great and drive awesome. I have a few questions.

1. How can I check what needed updated were done to the car? 
2. The coolant bottle is original and i was told that it wasnt 
defective.
3. Any recomendations on fixing or recovering the driver side seat 
along with making the leather soft. It is very hard after all theese 
years.
4. Is there any delorean club in the Northen NJ metro Area. I would 
love to meet some people with deloreans and go to shows together. 

-JOn




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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:12:45 -0000
From: "basfe25" <dmcman73_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Transmission and Oil question

I've used (and only used) Castrol GTX in a jeep I owned and the 
engine lasted to 250,000 miles (although the tranny didn't keep up). 
Slick 50 is the worst thing to use. Think about it....it has teflon 
particles in it (not blended into the oil but suspended particles). 
What is the job of the oil filter? to remove ANY particles that are 
in the oil to protect the engine. That there is a waste of money 
since you are filtering out all that "protection" that was added to 
it. Any engine will last 200,000+ miles if you take care of it and 
change the oil at the recomended intervals. As for synthetic 
oil...it's ok but you will have a few oil leaks that will spring up 
after putting it in. One of the main places I can think of is the 
seal that is behind the main crank pulley in the front of the 
engine. This is already notorious for leaking with regular oil. 
Synthetics flow nicer then regular oil and that's why it's better 
and that is also why leaks you never had before will appear.

For any transmission stay away from additives. I remember speaking 
to a friend of mine who was a mechaninc and he told me that almost 
all the additives out there for transmission will either rot the 
seals out or casue them to swell up. Just use regular Dextron III 
transmission fluid. Remember if the additives would be better for 
the car and make the parts last longer don't you think that the 
manufacture of the car would put them in so that they could offer 
better warranties or have lower repair rates on warranties?

So to sum it up....Regular Tranny fluid for the transmission and 
either Regular motor oil or Synthetic (your choice) in the 
engine...NO additives! Remember that the synthetic oil MAY FIND a 
leak that has been able to get away with regular oil. I say find and 
not casue becasue synthetics don't casue a leak (like rot out a seal 
or something) but finds an exisitng one that regular oil was not 
able to get through.

Steve


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "iqmpike" <iqmpike_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Quick question for the group... I have heard MANY storied on what 
> kind of oil to put in the Delorean.. I have heard 10W50, 5W30, 
etc...
> 
> I went and bought 7 quarts of Penzoil 5W30 SYNTHETIC oil....
> 
> My car has 5300 miles on it.
> 
> Is synthetic OK to put in a delorean, or is regular oil better?



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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:52:25 -0400
From: "C. C. Cameron Putsch" <putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu>
Subject: air conditioning compressor for sale

I have a brand new NOS air conditioning compressor for sale that has never been used and is perfect. The price is $200.

Casey Putsch at putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:25:39 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Transmission change

Joseph,

Yes, this is possible, with both OEM Delorean transmission types and
with transmission swaps from other vehicles.

I think Bob Brandys has done both types of swaps with OEM Delorean
transmissions and has done one with a Porsche TipTronic transmission.

Note: From the perspective of easily mounting of an OEM shifter, it is
probably less of a hassle adapting the mount to convert an automatic
frame "tray" to accept a manual shifter, than the other way around,
without having to do significant cutting or welding of the OEM frame.

Later,
Rich W.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "foxmul2001" <foxmul_at_dml_b...> wrote:
>  Hey List,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has any experience or heard of anyone 
> changing their transmission from Manual to automatic or auto to 
> manual?  Is this possible?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> joseph
> vin 2850




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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:55:58 -0000
From: "mikesdelorean" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>
Subject: concluding polls

I will be concluding the polls on wheel size/style and wheel finish 
in about a week or so, so get those votes in!  Also, some of the 
first votes were lost due to a change early on.  So if you put a vote 
in early in the creation,  check one more time and post your vote.  
Thanx.

-Mike, the "D" obsessed
VIN- Working on that....




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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:55:57 EDT
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Re: Delorean Depot?


Mike,

    Don't complain about the parts prices for the DeLorean. Yes, they are 
expensive, and so is a good quality DeLorean.  I suggest that you really 
examine the service benefits that you are awarded, such as the spring social 
that you and I attended in New Jersey. 

    Rob Grady inspected your car for free, gave you a diagnosis of the 
problems with your car, for free, and even installed some parts & worked on 
it for you, for free...including the DeLorean parts & labor I've given you, 
for free.

     You are still ahead of the game & beating inflation.

    I saw a license plate on a 73 DeTomaso Pantera....3rd Mtg....as in third 
mortgage. 


Can we start a new poll?

If money wasn't an object, and you have the wherewithal to; 

1. Buy a POS DeLorean & completely restore it?
2. Buy a well taken care of daily driver DeLorean?
3. Buy a superb Concours d'Elegance car?
4. Buy a restored/refurbrished company car?
5. Buy another marque and forget that your DeLorean experience ever happened?

Best Wishes,
Michael



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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:26:55 -0400
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Transmission and Oil question

Andy thank you for the explanation of "how oil works". I'm sure a lot of
people on the DML will benefit from reading it. But there is one thing I
don't understand. You say that you should change the oil every 3000 miles.
According to the DeLorean Owner's Handbook You should change it every 7500
miles. Also most car manufacturers in Europe tell you to change the oil
every 15000km (about 9375 miles). So the question is, should I follow the
Owner's Handbook OR the guys that make and sell engine oil? (and are
interested in selling more)
Being in that chemistry field a few years ago I learned that engine oil is
designed to work for a lot more than 3000 miles and it actually gets the
right properties after about 1000 miles! New oil is bad, old oil is bad.
It's the time in between when the oil is good. I've heard that the 3000
miles figure came from oil manufacturers so they can sell more. To me it
makes no sense to change it so often. Beside hurting the engine the old oil
is one of the major sources of pollution.
Another thing is the time. Mineral engine oil should be changed every 6
months (not 3) but no more than12 months. Synthetic oil can stay in your
engine for at least 12 months but no more than 24.

There is a lot of misinformation and confusion when it comes to car engines
and a lot of people actually hurt their cars thinking that they are doing
the right thing because somebody said so. Let's face it, who tells us to
change the oil every 3000 miles? Oil manufacturers in their radio and TV
commercials. Do you believe every commerial you hear? But that is a
different story.
Speaking of confusion... how many of you let the engine warm up for a moment
before you drive it? I bet that most people will say that letting the engine
idle for a moment is a good idea. And the fact is that this is the WORST
thing you can do! And if you read the Owner's Handbook you'll find a section
on cold start. It specificaly says to drive the car as soon as possible
after starting..... There are a lot more things like that I could talk about
but my email already looks like Walt's column ;) (sorry Walt).

Take care everyone and take care of your stainless beauties!
Tom Niemczewski
vin 6298 (FOR SALE)
tomcio_at_dml_gtemail.net


----- Original Message -----
From: <Soma576_at_dml_aol.com>
<SNIP>
> the most important thing with oil, by far, is not what brand, type, weight
> (to a point), etc etc.  the most important thing is the change your oil
AND
> filter every 3000 miles OR three months, whichever comes first.  also when
> you drain the oil, pour a quart of fresh oil thru the engine and let it
run
> out the drain hole.  this will flush the last bit of sludge in your pan
out.
> also when you tighten the drain plug, don't over tighten it or you may
strip
> the pan!
<SNIP>
> Later,
> Andy
>
> Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
> 1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
> Fargo, ND 58102





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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:59:40 -0000
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: West Michigan DMC for sale

There is a delorean near my place that is for sale.  Its through a 
private owner and the car is located in his front yard.  My dad went 
to check it out and gave me the following information

1982 w/black side strip
auto transmission
original tires
fascias look good, only minimul eyebrows
14K miles, appears to be true
slight wear on seats
interior looks great
one small hail sized ding on hood
VIN# is 11538

there was no phone number on the car.  They are selling for $17,900.  
If you are seriously interested in it, let me know and I'll take a 
deeper look into it and try to get a phone number for you.  

Erik
04512




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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:49:54 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>
Subject: WTB: interior carpet + seatcovers

If anyone has carpet or seat cover replacements for EARLY black interior, I'm looking to buy.

I'd like to save a few bux if I can..

Thanks



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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:09:40 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Another Memphis Update

> For those of you who ordered our DeLorean Afghan at the Memphis show, I
> have good news!  Our supplier delivered our order on Friday and we
> shipped most of the orders Saturday - priority mail.

Hey, I just got mine in the mail today, Priority Snail  :-)  That snail was
really book'en.  I'm going to hang this over my bed under the dealership
sign.  (I probably shouldn't admit that.)

I'm inspecting the Afghan for mistakes... let's see...  The car with the '83
plate has the door pull strap in the '81 location.  'tsk 'tsk.  And the
"dish" of the door's headliner is too narrow.  But these sort of things make
it more special.  At least they didn't stick the side mirrors on the front
fenders.  I seem to remember some club having their T-shirts made that way.

Walt




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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:49:52 -0000
From: "dmcjohn" <john.dore_at_dml_fidelity.com>
Subject: ZF Trans swap

Hi lads,
(To the guys who do engine swaps mainly!)
I had a good look at an old DeTomaso Pantera a few days ago, and was 
wondering if anyone thought the manual transmission it uses, which is 
a ZF transaxel, would be a good idea if you were going to do an 
engine conversion to a V-8? I'm sure its a lot stronger than a 
DeLorean trans, and you can get adapters to fit it to most American V-
8 engines pretty easily. It looked to me like it was a similar size, 
what would need to be considered before attempting something like 
this? Someday my DeLorean will have a SS chassis, with a v8, and a 
different manual trans, I hear the guy with the ford V-8 at Memphis 
is having transmission trouble? Also, what about the Porsche 911 
transmission? I love my DeLorean the way it is at the moment, but I 
would like a bit more power!
When DeLorean Houston come out with their stage 2 enine, are they 
beefing up the trans in any way? Seems like with 250 bhp they might 
be approaching the self destruct point of the original trans? If I 
was sure their system could operate with the original trans, I would 
probably settle for the Stage 2 engine instead of a conversion, as it 
would be a lot easier...
Thanks,
John




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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:52:50 -0000
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: ZF Trans swap

My recollection is that to use that transmission, you'd have to turn 
it around (or put the engine in between the seats!). It is designed 
for a car where the engine is toward the front (Pantera is a lot 
longer behind the seats than a DMC).

The ZF that has been put in a DMC (Brandys) is from a Porsche where 
the engine is behind the trans. 

Dave Swingle

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "dmcjohn" <john.dore_at_dml_f...> wrote:
> Hi lads,
> (To the guys who do engine swaps mainly!)
> I had a good look at an old DeTomaso Pantera a few days ago, and 
was 
> wondering if anyone thought the manual transmission it uses, which 
is 
> a ZF transaxel, would be a good idea if you were going to do an 
> engine conversion to a V-8? I'm sure its a lot stronger than a 
> DeLorean trans, and you can get adapters to fit it to most American 
V-
> 8 engines pretty easily. 




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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:52:56 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Transmission and Oil question

Tom, please qualify this statement. Letting ANY engine idle for a time is a very GOOD
thing as it gives the oil a chance to circulate around the engine. In all my cars I make
sure to take the first 2 minutes on half throttle

See this - written by a very qualified aussie scientist, and fanatical 4WDer.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/trek/4wd/oil1.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/trek/4wd/oil2.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/trek/4wd/oil3.htm

It's a good read even if you're not particularly interested in this thread. Quote:

I was delighted by some research done by Castrol with Rolls Royce, at the Nuclear
Research Institute at Harwell in the UK. They cut through some myths and got some hard
facts. Over several years, they "X-rayed" engines while they were running. They used
neutron beams instead of X-rays - they could, for the first time, actually "see" the oil
flowing through the engine.

          The engineers were amazed by the results. Once the engine had started, it took
much longer than everybody had thought for oil to reach all the parts of the valve train.
In some modern engines, it took several minutes (not seconds) for the oil to reach all
parts of  the valve train and complete the oil circuit - and this was at room
temperature! The situation got worse at lower temperatures. It took twice as long at 0oC,
and 4 times longer at -10oC. Some engines have balance shafts that run at twice the
crankshaft speed. The bearings on the balance shaft can suffer a lot of damage by running
dry for a few minutes. A cold start can be a dry start.

Martin
#1458

Tom Niemczewski wrote:

> Speaking of confusion... how many of you let the engine warm up for a moment
> before you drive it? I bet that most people will say that letting the engine
> idle for a moment is a good idea. And the fact is that this is the WORST
> thing you can do!




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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:04:33 -0400
From: heliconia_at_dml_juno.com
Subject: Ann Arbor Mi DMCs

hello

i spotted another DMC in an ANN ARBOR subburb today..

Are You Out There? How many are there around SE Michigan?

Chris
Vin# 5758

Christopher A. Rickards / Blue Swallowtail Butterfly Gardens
1006 Pontiac Trail #2
Ann Arbor, Mi 48105,   USA.



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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:42:14 -0500
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Door Lights Repaired

My driver side door light are now functioning properly.

It turned out that the ground wire for the middle light was pinched between
the door and a bracket.

Thanks guy's for the suggestions

Scott Mueller
002981




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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:15:46 -0400
From: "Joseph Molino" <foxmul_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Transmission change

so going from manual to auto would require more work? the rest would be bolt
on, right?

Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:25 AM
Subject: [DML] Re: Transmission change


> Joseph,
>
> Yes, this is possible, with both OEM Delorean transmission types and
> with transmission swaps from other vehicles.
>
> I think Bob Brandys has done both types of swaps with OEM Delorean
> transmissions and has done one with a Porsche TipTronic transmission.
>
> Note: From the perspective of easily mounting of an OEM shifter, it is
> probably less of a hassle adapting the mount to convert an automatic
> frame "tray" to accept a manual shifter, than the other way around,
> without having to do significant cutting or welding of the OEM frame.
>
> Later,
> Rich W.



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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:09:46 -0400
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Delorean Depot?

> Can we start a new poll?
>
> If money wasn't an object, and you have the wherewithal to;
>
> 1. Buy a POS DeLorean & completely restore it?
> 2. Buy a well taken care of daily driver DeLorean?
> 3. Buy a superb Concours d'Elegance car?
> 4. Buy a restored/refurbrished company car?
> 5. Buy another marque and forget that your DeLorean experience ever
happened?


I would take the refurbished car any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Of course, I want a fresh start on the car,  knowing that if something goes
wrong prematurely, I only have myself to blame.

-Mike A.





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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:15:22 -0700
From: <hbreer_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Another Memphis Update

Walt,



You have sharp eyes! All of the pictures used for the design were of my car:
an '81.  Mimi asked for the '1981' and '1983' on the license plates to
represent the first and last years of production. The 'Irish flag' license
plate was the artist's contribution.  As for the 'dish' - it must have just
been the angle of the picture and the artist's interpretation of what he saw.



On Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:09:40 -0400 Walter Coe <Whalt_at_dml_att.net> wrote:



<snip>



I'm inspecting the Afghan for mistakes... let's see...  The car with the '83
plate has the door pull strap in the '81 location.  'tsk 'tsk.  And the "dish"
of the door's headliner is too narrow.  But these sort of things make it more
special.  At least they didn't stick the side mirrors on the front fenders.  I
seem to remember some club having their T-shirts made that way.







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