From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1132
Date: Sunday, July 28, 2002 6:30 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Don't feed my car after midnight! Or else I get electrical gremlins!
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>

2. RE: Re: my first flux capacitor
From: "IN2TIME" <Gary_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>

3. Re: Towing/Car Transporter (little lengthy), not anymore
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

4. Re: Rear NCT Tire Needed
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

5. Re: Re: REAR MAIN OIL SEAL REPLACEMENT
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>

6. rust problem
From: silvercrw646_at_dml_cs.com

7. rust problem help?Welder in Nj?
From: "silverdelorean2002" <silvercrw646_at_dml_cs.com>

8. Re: Don't feed my car after midnight! Or else I get electrical gremlins!
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

9. Re: I quit.
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

10. Walt quitting
From: "checksix3" <checksix3_at_dml_juno.com>

11. Re: I quit.
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com

12. Re: I quit.
From: "txgrnbrt" <txgrnbrt_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. Re: I quit.
From: "Dan RC30" <Danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>

14. Re: (issues)
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

15. [Moderator Note] re I quit
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

16. RE: Walt quitting
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

17. No Start PLEASE HELP! :(
From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 01:10:00 -0400
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>
Subject: Re: Don't feed my car after midnight! Or else I get electrical gremlins!

Do you guys realize that gremlins 2 justs aired on TV!  Rather ironic!

-Mike A.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] Don't feed my car after midnight! Or else I get
electrical gremlins!


> I had this exact same problem in Memphis (although it was more erratic).
> DMC Joe found and fixed two bad grounds, causing a ground fault.  He said
> the tach is one of the first/best warning signs of a grounding problem.
> Besides fixing the tach problem, my car now runs better than it ever had.
> There is more power available for all the accessories, and the voltmeter
> doesn't go nearly as low as it did in an "all-on" state.  And now my horn
> and turn signals work at night when I have the A/C on.
>
> -Hank Eskin #1619
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
> To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 3:07 PM
> Subject: [DML] Don't feed my car after midnight! Or else I get electrical
> gremlins!
>
>
> > Ok, here's a new one. The lower the voltage in my car, the higher my
tach
> > goes. I know this sounds off the wall, but this is the problem: The
lower
> the
> > voltage in my car, the higher my tach goes. If I turn all accessories
on,
> I can
> > get the voltmeter down to the second notch. And when I do this, the tach
> will
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:01:32 -0700
From: "IN2TIME" <Gary_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>
Subject: RE: Re: my first flux capacitor

<SNIP>I try to correct them that it's actually a plastic car merely
skinned in stainless</SNIP>

OMHO Saying the DeLorean isn't a stainless steel car, is like saying a
red car isn't red.  Saying it's a plastic car makes it sound like a
Vette or Fiero. There must be better things to argue about. 

Sometimes beauty is only skin deep :-)

Gary
www.IN2TIME.com





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 04:10:17 EDT
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Towing/Car Transporter (little lengthy), not anymore


 
 
 
 snip
 
 Someone respond to this if there are any companies out there that has this
 hookup on a personal truck
 (i.e. Toyota, Chevy, Dodge, etc).-Mike A.
  >>

    Hummers are great, they can climb damn near anything, cross a deep stream 
or small river, and depending on the model can tow a lot ... when they are 
not leaking oil. I was the one responsible for discovering the interior light 
from the 4-door hardtop Hummer was identical to the DeLorean, back in 1995 as 
I rode in one almost everyday. I sent this information to the list.
    Hummers are Too noisy, and at that time unreliable. The factory in 
Indiana has a special where you send your Hummer back to the factory to 
correct any "leaks" oil, water, coolant, etc., etc. Too disappointing for 
$80,000.00

Ford F-650 "SuperCrewzer" made for recreational boaters & race car trailers 
retails for $90,000.00 Ford only makes 300 per year. The Supercrewzer has air 
brakes for your trailer and caterpillar diesel engine capable of towing 
20,000 lbs.

I'm using a PACE, 48 ft, air conditioned, gooseneck, triple axle, dovetail 
ramp, race car trailer. It looks identical to the custom DeLorean hauler from 
the DeLoreanOne advertisements. Capable of hauling three DeLoreans in comfort 
with the 8,000 lb triple axle.

Best Wishes,
Michael



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:15:07 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Rear NCT Tire Needed

Bob, I know this post is a day or two late. But if your looking for NCT 
tires. I also have them on the web site.
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/bodyparts.shtml



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 07:35:22 -0500
From: "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Re: REAR MAIN OIL SEAL REPLACEMENT

P J Grady sells the Centerforce as well as the stock clutch.

Bruce Benson


> do you have the part numbers for the centerforce clutch and pressure
plate?
>
> thanks
> mark





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 08:14:20 -0400
From: silvercrw646_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: rust problem

Hey guys this is Jon from NJ, Thanks for the great resoonse before. Anyway I was in teh garage yesterday flaking some epoxy off the frame to take care some of the light rust on the frame and rid of it forever when i found something horrible on my 22k car. There was one spot on the lower outer engine support area that had some bubbling. As I flaked off the epoxy from the area I noticed the rust was real bad. i know what cancer was and that was what i saw. I kept on flaking until the screwdriver went through to the otherside!  I am so Sad. I checked the entire frame after that and everything else seemed solid. The area is around 4x5 area. I need to find someplace or somone with welding experience to cut that part out and weld in some new metal before it eats teh whole frame. ANyone knoe anyone in THe NJ Ny area. Also is this a expensive fix? Thanks for all the help. Man I hate that epoxy crap. When i get this fixed I am gonna work all winter por-15 the entire frame. Thanks for all the help.

Jon



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:24:14 -0000
From: "silverdelorean2002" <silvercrw646_at_dml_cs.com>
Subject: rust problem help?Welder in Nj?

Hey guys this is Jon from NJ, Thanks for the great response before. 
Anyway I was in teh garage yesterday flaking some epoxy off the 
frame to take care some of the light rust on the frame and rid of it 
forever when i found something horrible on my 22k car. There was one 
spot on the lower outer engine support area that had some bubbling. 
As I flaked off the epoxy from the area I noticed the rust was real 
bad. i know what cancer was and that was what i saw. I kept on 
flaking until the screwdriver went through to the otherside!   I am 
so Sad. I checked the entire frame after that and everything else 
seemed solid. The area is around 4x5 area. I need to find someplace 
or somone with welding experience to cut that part out and weld in 
some new metal before it eats teh whole frame. ANyone knoe anyone in 
THe NJ Ny area. Also is this a expensive fix? Thanks for all the 
help. Man I hate that epoxy crap. When i get this fixed I am gonna 
work all winter por-15 the entire frame. Thanks for all the help.

Jon







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 20:48:17 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Don't feed my car after midnight! Or else I get electrical gremlins!

Interesting. You wouldn't happen to know which 2 grounds it was that was the 
cause of the trouble would you? I know I've gotten the major connections 
clean, but I've probably missed something somewhere.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_b...> wrote:
> I had this exact same problem in Memphis (although it was more erratic).
> DMC Joe found and fixed two bad grounds, causing a ground fault.  He said
> the tach is one of the first/best warning signs of a grounding problem.
> Besides fixing the tach problem, my car now runs better than it ever had.
> There is more power available for all the accessories, and the voltmeter
> doesn't go nearly as low as it did in an "all-on" state.  And now my horn
> and turn signals work at night when I have the A/C on.
> 
> -Hank Eskin #1619




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 03:13:31 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: I quit.

I am pleased with the response that my "I quit" post generated.  Most of the
replies were predictably off-list.  One guy called me an a**hole (well,
that's the way he spelled it), but everyone else was in agreement and
support.  I had 13 off-list replies so far.  The way the DML is run has been
a festering problem for many of us.  Saying that "I quit" was conditional
such that if the censors didn't let that post through then obviously I would
be wasting my time trying to reason with them.

Originally when James Espey started this list (calling himself "Iron Fist
Espey"), he censored posts according to the following criteria:  It had to
be about the man, the car or the marque.  If it didn't fit, then it wasn't
allowed.  Because the DML was the first such discussion forum and was held
to relatively high standards by James, it is now the biggest such forum.
What most of us expect is an open forum for people with an interest in
DeLoreans to discuss things related to their cars.  But what we have now is
instead an oppressive regime.

I was aghast when I had a post rejected asking for leads on where I could
get copies of John DeLorean's "Five D's with D".  This is a column that JZD
contributed to his college newspaper.  The reason for the rejection?
According to the censor, the DML was experiencing unusually heavy traffic
and asked me to resubmit my post at a time when post volume was lower.
(Does anyone see any logic to this idea?)  Even though I thought that my
post was entirely on-topic according to the standards of James Espey,
apparently the censors thought that it was of little interest and rejected
it.  Posts advertising get-rich-quick schemes & online Viagra should
probably not be allowed but not at the expense of censoring on-topic
discussion.  If we wish to start threads discussing what it takes to turn a
DeLorean into a stretch-limo or how to design a Fiero/DeLorean kit car or
whatever, that is what the forum is for.  Such posts like this shouldn't be
censored.  I'm sure that if Rick Gendereau asked the DML for advice on
fitting an engine in the front of his car, this would have been quickly
stomped out.  Would it not?

The censors take pride in controlling the "signal-to-noise ratio" of the
DML.  They say that they typically delete 30% of submissions.  To the
passive eye, it appears that what is left is a high quality product.  But to
the rest of us we know that it is an oppressive regime.  We as adults are
capable of deciding what is worth reading and what is not.  Many of us read
everything on the DML while others pick & choose according to if the subject
line sounds interesting.  I don't see a problem if the message volume
increased by 30% or more due to a lack of censorship.  They may think that
they are maintaining the "high quality" of the DML, but in reality they have
estranged many useful contributors who have given up in frustration.

I ask that the censors hold a meeting to decide if they can change their
rules a bit.
1) Nothing is rejected or deleted from the DML or its website without a
letter of explanation to the originator.  Exceptions would obviously be
nuisance posts for online Viagra and nuddy pictures (unless of course they
included DeLoreans in their advertisements. :-)
2) No topic that is relevant to these cars would be rejected.  This includes
hair-brained modification ideas and posts that, "I was abducted by a UFO
that looked just like a DeLorean." or "I would have got laid but the center
console got in the way."
3) The "moderators" would participate in discussions only as regular list
members and not edit, add to or modify any other list member's posts.  Any
comments must be contributed like everyone else as a separate post.  For
example, I had someone tell me that a moderator re-wrote a section of his
post and consequently changed the meaning in an unfavorable way.
4) Arguments and "flame wars" would only be ignored by those not wishing to
read them.  What people say is their free right and liability.  For example,
if anyone wants to call anyone else an asshole, then that is up to them and
up to the rest of us if we want to read any of it.  But it is not reason to
delete the post.
5) The "moderators" would encourage list members to keep on-topic
discussions through the list rather than forcing discussions off-list like
they currently do.  If people don't want to read it, then they can skip it.
I have had many fruitful discussions off-list that I'm sure other DML
members would have loved to participate in if it wasn't for the censors
getting in the way.  Someone passively reading such a discussion may be able
to contribute an idea that would lead to an improvement to our cars.  If
they don't want to read it then that is their choice and no one else's.

If the censors of the DML can agree to the 5 suggestions above, then great.
Otherwise the rest of us are starting a new group that operates by these
rules.

Walt    Tampa, FL





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 03:25:07 -0000
From: "checksix3" <checksix3_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Walt quitting

Good for you Walt, about time someone stood up to the "moderation"
that goes on here. Its appalling censorship, based solely on the whim 
of the "moderator" at the time, plain and simple. As they 
say, "little people with a little power....."

I quit because of this and the incredible amount of misinformation 
foisted upon the readership by those ignorant of even the simplest 
technical issues. Like myself (and I'm sure others who've come 
before), its their loss because of what could have been contributed. 

This list is more entertainment than anything else. For me at least, 
it certainly hasn't been a valuable source about owning and 
maintaining this heap of junk. I'm considering donating my car for a 
tax write off by having it dropped from 2000 feet by helicopter at a 
local airshow in October.

Don't even think about asking me to sell it. Nothing will give me 
greater satisfaction than to see this POS hit the ground at terminal 
velocity. (I would have dynamited it out in the desert but would have 
lost even more cash.) No matter what, standby. Film at eleven.

The other issue is ego. There are a lot of folks here who need to get 
a life. Its just a car, and not much of one at that.

Walt, if decide to start a new list that has some brains and free 
speech, let me know. It may even save this car so that it can nickel 
and dime some other poor slob to death in the future. ;-)








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 02:21:16 EDT
From: njp548_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: I quit.

List,

    I also agree with Walt on this issue.  I've had my share of posts deleted 
before they hit the DML claiming they aren't  "De Lorean enough".  One of the 
most recent ones being General Motors deciding to bring back the GTO into 
production.  Now let me ask this question...If General Motors brings back a 
car that JZD was the father of, isn't that "De Lorean enough"?  Then a few 
weeks later someone else posts about it and it goes through.  And what balls 
me the most is a DMLer's entire post was about how this person wanted to know 
more about his family name and his family's history in germany  (post 
included below)  Now I know for sure that has NOTHING to do with De Loreans 
AT ALL.  What gives?  Moderators playing favorites here or something??

post:
<<<Kluas,

  I have been waiting for you to post. It's been a long time since I have 
seen you on the DML. I like your waterhose idea and will go that route later 
this summer. I would like to ask for your help on a project of mine. 
My Grand father Albert William Schafer was born in Germany and came to 
America between 1900 & 1920. He came from a town called Wirth Germany. i was 
told it is near Breman. I would like to find out if I still have relatives in 
that area but don't know how to go about it. Since you are from Germay i 
wonder if you have any ideas or suggestions on how to search for my missing 
relatives. My mother is 83 and would like to know more about her father. She 
was under 10 years old when her mom & Dad divorced and she went with her mom. 
So she knows very little about the Schafer sided of our family. I thought it 
would be a nice birthday present to give her if I can figure this all out. 
Thanks.>>>


Later,
Nick Pitello
1852
15914
<A HREF="Http://members.aol.com/njp548">Http://members.aol.com/njp548</A>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:53:34 -0000
From: "txgrnbrt" <txgrnbrt_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: I quit.

Walter,

I follow the posts on the DML list, and you are a valuable asset to 
our community, as are all DMC owners. Shared experiences are what 
keeps us all going, and I for one appreciate you and what you've done.

Last year when "Fatboy" Ed B. in California was showing his know it 
all a** I returned fire and a post or two of mine were poofed. It 
pissed me off that someone decided that what I had to say wasn't 
important, but that's life, I got over it and moved on.

I read the list daily, and don't post a lot -- but I'm here, "lurking 
in the shadows".... and printing out any useful information that 
could be of use maintaining my DMC.

The Delorean is one of several collector cars I own, it only has 10K 
miles on it, but I do drive it monthly and the tips I pick up help 
keep the car "as new as possible".

Hang in there, "for the good of the order" I hope you stay with us.


Jim




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:46:23 -1000
From: "Dan RC30" <Danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: I quit.

Gee Walt... ever think about working for the US Post Office?

---Dan :-P (tongue firmly planted in cheek)




Message: 9
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 01:19:40 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: I quit.

I have had enough accumulated frustration with the DML that I am formally
calling it quits, and I am not alone.  I have been corresponding via e-mail,
phone, and in person with various former DML contributors.  These others
have quit before me, and I have finally been dealt the last straw and am
quitting the DML myself.  I will still be a lurker like the others (provided
I haven't been "categorically banned" from the DML like the moderators have
threatened before) 



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 07:53:49 EDT
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: (issues)

In a message dated 7/26/2002 6:09:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mike_at_dml_ninja.net 
writes:

> 4) Last but certainly not least:  Ken, you are the one with the
> testicular fortitude to run this and I salute you for that. 
   (private e-mail indicated he was thinking it was me)

I am sorry but I cannot take credit for the DML.  I may have the fortitude to 
run the DeLorean CAr Show but with running the DeLorean Car Show and my work 
schedule I have no available time to do the job that the DML monitors do.  I 
do enjoy reading the articles and they have been an awesome aid to the car 
show.  

Hope that clears it up because I have had a few e-mails asking me questions 
on the DML and I have no Idea how to answer them.

See ya all in Pigeon Forge 2004
Deloreancarshow.com

Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 03:04:15 -0000
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: [Moderator Note] re I quit

Walt - I noticed that you have not really unsubscribed - do you need 
help with that? Or was that supposed to be some sort of threat to get 
us to let your post thru (the fact that your quitting 
was "conditional" was not stated in your original post). You are 
welcome to stay or go, we have not unsubscribed anyone who didn't 
directly request it and won't now either.

List - It's a slow weekend anyway, so I'm letting all the other 
discussion thru as well. If this bothers anyone just skip 'em. But 
here's the response. 

Our intent is to maintain the DML as it is. We've discussed it among 
ourselves and others many times over the years. With 5 moderators it 
will NEVER be 100% consistent. Based on feedback we get, (and the 
fact that we get many more complaints about letting through too much 
off-topic stuff than complaints about what we don't let through), it 
isn't going to change. Believe me when I say we don't do this for 
some power trip, the fact that it seems that a huge percentage of the 
list membership still thinks James Espey runs the list after being 
out of it for over 4 years says something about our attempts to grab 
attention. 

Please contact Walt off-line about any other lists. If you do a list 
search on YahooGroups you'll find that there are already several 
other Delorean lists. Most are public, all are unmoderated. Or start 
a new one. Chat to your heart's content. We intend to keep the focus 
of the DML on the car, company, man; Not BTTF, models, snake oil, 
UFOs, Bricklins, or somebody's old Nissan. If you are sensitive about
rejection then don't post to this list. 

-----Dave Swingle - for the team (Marty Maier, Mike Substelny, Mike 
Greise,  Bruce Benson, Knut Grimsrud) <--list-moderators since 1998, 
not James, not Ken)





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 23:17:21 -0500
From: "Mike Griese" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Walt quitting

Let me get this straight - You quit the list because of a lot of
misinformation, yet you want LESS moderation?!?

Mike 

-----Original Message-----
From: checksix3 [mailto:checksix3_at_dml_juno.com]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:25 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Walt quitting


Good for you Walt, about time someone stood up to the "moderation"
that goes on here. Its appalling censorship, based solely on the whim 
of the "moderator" at the time, plain and simple. As they 
say, "little people with a little power....."

I quit because of this and the incredible amount of misinformation 
foisted upon the readership by those ignorant of even the simplest 
technical issues. Like myself (and I'm sure others who've come 
before), its their loss because of what could have been contributed. 





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 00:24:36 -0400
From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>
Subject: No Start PLEASE HELP! :(

So Sad. such a nice day and I cannot drive my D
 
I took off the intake manifold, mixture control unit etc.
 
To get beadblasted..
 
And did  a tune up while in there
 
-Spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor
 
and in the process took out the distributor and replaced the vacuum
advance on it.. as mine was rusted to SH&t
 
Anyhow . I put the distributor back in . set the timing to TDC and as
well set the pulley to TDC
 
And put her all back to together ever so carefully to make sure I did
not miss anything..
 
Double check and then attempt to start.
 
 
NOTHING!!!
 
Turns over but does not kick in.. I took it all apart .. readjusted
timing.. took off the right valve cover and check to make sure piston 1
was up..
 
Re-aligned distributor to tdc. and put back to together to try again .
started up . ran really rough for a few seconds. then stalled..
 
 
Now, no matter what I try . it just turns over and backfires once and a
while ..
 
 
PLEASE! Anybody .. somebody . heeeeelp!
 
 
Thanks So Much
-Ken
00541
 
Loosing his mind!
 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/