From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1157
Date: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 2:29 AM

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There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Run Cooling Fans Flat Out ? / Bob Zilla
From: ZillaDelorean_at_dml_aol.com

2. Re: Re: Torsion bar stuck to retainer
From: Bastiaan Olij <mux_at_dml_wxs.nl>

3. DeLorean sighting in Sherwood 'forest'?
From: "Fedeli, Joe" <paa5072_at_dml_dscp.dla.mil>

4. Re: Run Cooling Fans Flat Out ? / Bob Zilla
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

5. Delorean For Sale --> Connecticut
From: Dave Trenck <dtrenck_at_dml_edgar-online.com>

6. Re: Torsion bar stuck to retainer
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>

7. Corrected: Torsion bar stuck to retainer
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

8. Re: Vacuum Source For Turbo Cars
From: "Stragand, Dave" <dave.stragand_at_dml_ketchum.com>

9. Detroit dream cruise 2002
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>

10. need email address
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>

11. Re: Re: Torsion bar stuck to retainer
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

12. Sir Kenneth Cork and the original DeLorean Motor Company
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

13. RE: Run Cooling Fans Flat Out ? / Bob Zilla
From: "IN2TIME" <Gary_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>

14. Silicone Water Hoses
From: klaus.steiner_at_dml_t-online.de

15. Anti-rattle springs
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

16. Re: Vacuum Source For Turbo Cars
From: Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>

17. Re: CUSTOM RIMS
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>

18. strange ticking noise
From: Michael T Twigger <marktwigger_at_dml_juno.com>

19. Re: Run Cooling Fans Flat Out ? / Bob Zilla
From: "roscsyl" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

20. Re: Detroit dream cruise 2002
From: beatlesra1_at_dml_aol.com

21. Re: strange ticking noise
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:48:27 EDT
From: ZillaDelorean_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Run Cooling Fans Flat Out ? / Bob Zilla

Every summer, like clockwork, someone will suggest running the Cooling fans 
constantly.  
Hey, it's an appealing idea. 
The car needs to be cooled so why not just run the fans flat out ? 
What harm could it do ?

Here's the rub:
If you choose to pass the current needed (20 Amps minimum ) through both the 
stock relay sockets ( blue fan fail socket & fan relay socket ), you will be 
running some of those terminals at their design current limits. That's 
assuming the car was brand new, the terminals are very tight and completely 
without oxidation ( tarnish ).

Well, the car is 20 years old. It is likely that connectors have been 
jockeyed in and out of these sockets for many years. The more expanded and 
tarnished they become the less current they can pass efficiently. As a 
result, they are likely to overheat and melt down a relay socket.

To test for loose connectors see:
http://www.deloreanparts.com/zilla_014.htm

To restore correct terminal tightness see:
http://www.deloreanparts.com/zilla_013.htm

If you choose to run your fans continuously in this fashion  you will run a 
relay socket melt down risk. What's worse, is that you stand to damage the 
insulation on the stock DeLorean harness wiring just outside the relay socket 
leading to the terminals. These wires begin to overheat and damage the wire's 
insulation. While you might figure that a quick trip to the local autoparts 
store will provide you with the proper wire to repair the damage,  it is VERY 
unlikely that they will have the high temperature wire needed to do it 
correctly. 
FYI: Soldering these wires and black electrical tape have no place here as 
well. This is a wire crimp zone only.

As if things aren't bad enough, running the fans continuously overtax the 
Alternator. With the fans running, the Alternator is required to supply 20 
Amps Min at all times. That's assuming nothing else in the car is running. 
Very unlikely ! At night when cooling is needed the least, you are also 
running the head lights ( another huge draw ). 
What,  you  haven't had enough alternator problems already,  you want to tax 
it more ?

The temptation to modify the stock relay wiring configuration is often 
appealing in the short term. In the long view it's not the way to go. Should 
you EVER decide to sell your car, the next owner will have no idea what 
you've done. Many new owners can attest to this. 
Decoding the "new" wiring mystery is not fun. 
You didn't improve the car,  you obscured an underlying problem.

The Beauty and Magic of the "Duty Cycle".
Every Engineer is familiar with this concept. It allows a device to work way 
past it's design limits. This holds true for the DeLorean. By allowing the 
cooling system to Cycle, it runs at nearly a 50% duty cycle. This means in a 
typical AC cycle configuration, it passes current for only half the time, 
allowing the entire electrical system to cool down. This is how the terminals 
in the relay sockets can work past their design limit. The Lotus Engineers 
knew EXACTLY what they were doing. If your cooling system is up to snuff it 
will work just fine. 

When you decide to run the fans continuously to remedy a poorly functioning 
cooling system you are treating the symptom and not the cause of the problem. 
Do yourself a favor: 
FIND THE REAL PROBLEM AND REPAIR IT PROPERLY.

Bob Zilla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 08:06:55 +0200
From: Bastiaan Olij <mux_at_dml_wxs.nl>
Subject: Re: Re: Torsion bar stuck to retainer

At Monday, 12 August 2002, you wrote:

Hi Bill,

>If I understand Dave Swingle, your problem likely was hex tool not
>seated completely in retainer (obviously came loose once -- lucky you
>didn't crack the back window too). 
It didn't come loose, the tool just split right open, broke in two 
parts, never seen anything like it. I'm still very happy it didn't 
damage the back window, although I wasn't to happy with the hole 
in my roof. Luckely we got that fixed.

>Note that over torqued torsion bars will tear the metal plate over the
>back window loose from the car and distort it. Our cars have precious
>little metal in them to begin with -- don't want to mangle what's 
there.
Well that is my whole worry, since there seems to be no way to get 
the plate off and lessen the tention in the torsion bars........

>I watched Dave's every step. I understood everything he did. And I'm
[...]
>overnight.
Luckely I live only 1 hours drive away from a very able mechanic,
that still doesn't solve our problem for getting the plate loose:
-(

Greetz,

Bas Olij




===================================================================
EASY and FREE access to your email anywhere: http://Mailreader.com/
===================================================================





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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:24:42 -0400
From: "Fedeli, Joe" <paa5072_at_dml_dscp.dla.mil>
Subject: DeLorean sighting in Sherwood 'forest'?

> Is a Tom Sherwood on this list?  I saw your car parked under some trees in
> an auto shop for repairs near New Hope, PA and talked to the guys there.
> Sounds like they did not have a clue as to what was wrong with your car
> and I gave them some highlights on repair procedures.  They could not find
> the fuses for the fan fail and gave up months ago.  Please email me
> directly if you are here.  Thanks!  Joe



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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:15:55 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Run Cooling Fans Flat Out ? / Bob Zilla

Hi Bob

**waves frantically** it's the irritating english guy from Memphis :-)

'fraid I've got to question some of what you've said here, mate...

ZillaDelorean_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

>Here's the rub:
>If you choose to pass the current needed (20 Amps minimum ) through both the 
>stock relay sockets ( blue fan fail socket & fan relay socket ), you will be 
>running some of those terminals at their design current limits.
>
*cough* - The DIN relay standard for this type is 40A...

> That's 
>assuming the car was brand new, the terminals are very tight and completely 
>without oxidation ( tarnish ).
>
This should allow 40A without excessive heating. I agree it probably 
doesn't but we're not actually talking about a continuous 40A in this case.

>Well, the car is 20 years old. It is likely that connectors have been 
>jockeyed in and out of these sockets for many years. The more expanded and 
>tarnished they become the less current they can pass efficiently. As a 
>result, they are likely to overheat and melt down a relay socket.
>
Agreed.

>As if things aren't bad enough, running the fans continuously overtax the 
>Alternator. With the fans running, the Alternator is required to supply 20 
>Amps Min at all times. That's assuming nothing else in the car is running. 
>Very unlikely ! At night when cooling is needed the least, you are also 
>running the head lights ( another huge draw ). 
>What,  you  haven't had enough alternator problems already,  you want to tax 
>it more ?
>
I'm puzzled as to why you think that drawing current from an alternator 
below its rated output will cause it problems? No, I'm being pedantic. I 
know what you're saying, but even with the FanZilla, the fans will still 
draw the same current. You're not giving the alternator a "rest" by 
turning the fans on and off all the time. In fact you'll probably give 
it more wear by loading it with the startup current repeatedly. This is 
opinion though. FWIW I still have the Ducey and deserve everything I get :-)

>The temptation to modify the stock relay wiring configuration is often 
>appealing in the short term. In the long view it's not the way to go. Should 
>you EVER decide to sell your car, the next owner will have no idea what 
>you've done. Many new owners can attest to this. 
>
100% agreement. I love my car for many reasons, but one of the main ones 
is it's complete lack of any kind of mods. (Except one - the dash lights 
come on with the headlights and not with ignition!). Even when I'm 
modding it, I will not permanently change the wiring.

>
>The Beauty and Magic of the "Duty Cycle".
>Every Engineer is familiar with this concept. It allows a device to work way 
>past it's design limits.This holds true for the DeLorean. By allowing the 
>cooling system to Cycle, it runs at nearly a 50% duty cycle. This means in a 
>typical AC cycle configuration, it passes current for only half the time, 
>allowing the entire electrical system to cool down. 
>
Okay, a "duty cycle" is the ratio given between "on" and "off" but only 
over a specific period; **typically a minute**. Of a motor, this is 
given by the S2/S3 rating. S2 defines the maximum length of time the 
motor can output nominal power before reaching maximum operating 
temperature. S3 defines the duty cycle the motor can handle if repeated 
ad infinitum. The same fact can be applied to actuators with supposedly 
small, weak motors....

I also want to question what happens when the cooling fans kick in at 
idle to cool the engine. On my car it takes a good minute to bring the 
engine's temp back down to the point of the otterstat cutting off. This 
is a far longer duty than the AC generates and easily long enough for 
any heat problems to become apparent.

>This is how the terminals 
>in the relay sockets can work past their design limit. The Lotus Engineers 
>knew EXACTLY what they were doing. If your cooling system is up to snuff it 
>will work just fine. 
>
I was under the impression that Lotus engineered the chassis. DMC wired 
the cars up using Lucas parts? I doubt very much that they "designed in" 
a time period to allow the wiring loom to cool down!!! THAT would be 
treating the symptoms and not the disease.

>When you decide to run the fans continuously to remedy a poorly functioning 
>cooling system you are treating the symptom and not the cause of the problem. 
>Do yourself a favor: 
>FIND THE REAL PROBLEM AND REPAIR IT PROPERLY.
>
...by cleaning/replacing the crimps, using new relays and for god's sake 
TEST it before taking a long trip! YES, I've done this to my car because 
of my low gas problem - that will be fixed, but meantime this takes a 
LOT of load OFF the electrics. Who knows maybe one day I'll get around 
to actually building one of my fan delay circuits :-) I think, however, 
running the fans continuously makes more sense though.

FWIW I drove over 400 miles over the weekend with my fans running 
continuously when the AC was on. Steve Strelczak has been running his 
fans continuously for weeks now while a new otterstat turns up. I will 
warn him to keep an eye on it.

My car has only 5000 miles on it and has very clean electrics... I am 
unlikely to suffer as others, so I bow to your superior experience with 
DeLoreans.... I just have to stick my bib in on specific electrical 
facts.... sorry.

Martin
#1458
(Degree in electronics and builder of fighting robots which use S2 
motors at 200A+ to the point of catching fire <grin>)





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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:24:29 -0400
From: Dave Trenck <dtrenck_at_dml_edgar-online.com>
Subject: Delorean For Sale --> Connecticut

1981 Delorean for sale.  Just under 118,000 miles.  This was a daily driver for a long time, but has been sitting for the last few months.  It is currently not running (requires a battery and some steering work).  Body is in excellent condition, with few dings.  Needs work on the interior (leather seats cracked, minor dash cracks, etc, no stereo).  Would be great either for parts or to restore.  Contact me via email if you are interested.  $6500.

- Dave Trenck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:27:15 -0000
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>
Subject: Re: Torsion bar stuck to retainer

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Bastiaan Olij <mux_at_dml_w...> wrote:
<snip>
> For some reason the plate holding my passenger 
> door torsion bar is fixed solid to it. I'm thinking it may be glued 
> to the torsion bar for some reason. No getting it loose whatsoever.
> 
> Got it all fixed very nicely though, mechanic is a star when it 
comes 
> to that. But the plate is still as fixed as can be and I have no 
> way to lower the tension on this torsion bar which is much to high:
> -( 
> 
> Greetz,
> 
> Bas Olij
> ===================================================================

Hallo, Bas

When you say that the plate is stuck to the torsion bar, I'm unsure 
what you mean.  I'm assuming that you've taken the two bolts out that 
hold the bracket plate to the car body, and that the tension on the 
torsion bar is now released, and that for some unknown reason, the 
plate can't slide off of the torsion bar like it should.  

If I have understood you correctly, here you go:

First, try some oil.  In U.S.A. we have WD40 which loosens stuck 
parts sometimes if you let it sit for a while.  I'm sure they have 
something similar in Holland.  Regardless of why the parts are stuck 
together, this will help getting them apart with less damage.

If this were my car, and oil alone didn't work, I would remove the 
torsion bar and plate (still stuck together) from the car all at 
once, and press the torsion bar out of the plate removed from the 
car.  That way, one can put straighter force on the joint to avoid 
shocking or bending the torsion bar.  I try to remember that torsion 
bars don't like bending or hammering or heating.  These torsion bars 
are very expensive, and easy to damage.  I would keep track of the 
orientation of the torsion bar before removing it, so I could put it 
back the exact same way.  After I got the torsion bar out of the 
plate, I would inspect it and the bracket carefully.  Why was it 
stuck so bad?  It's an important question.  Are the splines damaged 
or twisted?  Is the end of the torsion bar cracked?  Has it been 
hammered?  Is the bracket plate rusted or damaged?  An overtensioned 
torsion bar should be considered a weak part that might break later 
under normal use.  Luckily, this failure is more likely with the door 
closed while driving.  If it's damaged, I would think about finding a 
replacement. 

If you're unsure in any way how to adjust the tension in your torsion 
bars, don't do it. It's dangerous.  Never do it alone.


Bastiaan Olij <mux_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> Your worse nightmare can then come true as the tool we were using 
> gave out under the intense stress and suddenly I had a nice hole 
> in my roof:-( (mental note, remove roof plate next time).

The stress is high, but not high enough to break good tools.  You 
might need a better tool.

A hole in my car roof is not my worst nightmare.  It's just a car.  
My worst nightmare working on the doors and the torsion bars is that 
a door, which is very heavy and is made of steel, will fall on my or 
my coworker's head, break my or his/her neck, and paralyse me or 
him/her from the neck down for the rest of my or his life.  It could 
happen.

I'm glad your mechanic could fix the hole in your roof.

Good luck to you, and safety first.
Wees voorzichtig, A.U.B.

Rick Gendreau
11472








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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:45:58 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Corrected: Torsion bar stuck to retainer

I *TOLD* you I had a sleep deficit...

Just re-read below. Major typo -- just substitute the word "torsion
bar" everywhere I mention hex head tool in the "retainer" and should
be OK. Now you know why I let Dave perform the operation! 

Bill.

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> If I understand Dave Swingle, your problem likely was hex tool not
> seated completely in retainer (obviously came loose once -- lucky you
> didn't crack the back window too). If tool is not fully seated, will
> distort splined end of torsion bar just enough to lock into retainer.
> Fellow I travelled with had same problem. Dave was able to slowly rock
> it off with small pry bars on either side of retainer (where bolts
> attach to the car).
> 
> To avoid this, he repeatedly raps the hex tool into the retainer with
> a hammer throughout the whole procedure. 
> 
> Torsion bar will also freeze into receptacle at front of car -- have
> to use same hex tool in the other direction to literally "crack" free.
> 
> Note that over torqued torsion bars will tear the metal plate over the
> back window loose from the car and distort it. Our cars have precious
> little metal in them to begin with -- don't want to mangle what's there.
> 
> I watched Dave's every step. I understood everything he did. And I'm
> still not going to attempt the procedure myself. Perhaps one day, but
> not now. If there's a club or *able* mechanic within any sort of
> driving distance, I again recommend making the trip, even if it's an
> overnight.
> 
> Add to the list of things you can tear up: the torsion bars themselves
> (apparently even a minute scrape will magnify into a major fracture
> under their stress). 
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939






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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:57:45 -0400
From: "Stragand, Dave" <dave.stragand_at_dml_ketchum.com>
Subject: Re: Vacuum Source For Turbo Cars

Hi All,
 
You don't necessarily need special vacuum pumps for turbo or supercharged cars.  While it's true that turbos/blowers can provide manifold pressures into the positive end of the scale, the engine's normal operating state still provides for more than enough vacuum.  At idle, most turbo/blown cars will still run around 15 inHg -- plenty for brakes.  If you're still having problems, check out the anti-reverse valve leading from the manifold to the vacuum canister in the pontoon.  It should only "allow vacuum" one way.  (If memory serves, it's black on one side, white on the other, and about the size of 5 or 6 half-dollar coins stacked together.  You can also simply use a larger vacuum tank out of just about anything in a salvage yard.  It's hidden deep in the pontoon anyway, so what it looks like doesn't matter.
 
-Dave
http://www.projectvixen.com
VIN #05927


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:00:19 -0400
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>
Subject: Detroit dream cruise 2002

I recall my children, when they were young, crying "but I wanna go...." What
a decision to make! Drive the DeLorean 150 miles this weekend and enjoy the
best ever car show in the world, or meet my earlier commitment when I did
not have the show date and drive 150 miles in the opposite direction to go
boating on the weekend aboard a 40' cabin cruiser. Ah, the problems never
cease! (LOL)

Marv
# 17707
marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com






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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:33:33 -0400
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>
Subject: need email address

Attention: David Teitlebaum
Please email me personally. I do not have your email address. Thanks.

Marv
# 17707
marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com





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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:33:33 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Torsion bar stuck to retainer

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Bastiaan Olij <mux_at_dml_w...> wrote:

Dave uses Snap-On -- reportedly the best tools money can buy. To work
around louvers, and give the man loading/unloading the bar room to
swing a four foot lever, he has two mombo extensions (2 plus feet) to
reach beyond the rear of the car. These are held steady in a home made
jig that rests on the Q panel pontoon. Extensions are attached to a
breaker bar, itself permanently attached to a four foot cheater pipe.
Was surprised all this was only 1/2" drive, but it worked. *REMEMBER*
Dave and his assistant repeatedly rap this tool with a hammer to keep
it firmly seated in the torsion bar at all times.

> It didn't come loose, the tool just split right open, broke in two 
> parts, never seen anything like it. I'm still very happy it didn't 
> damage the back window, although I wasn't to happy with the hole 
> in my roof. Luckely we got that fixed.

If the torsion bars are overtorqued the metal plate is already
damaged.   Dave reattaches it to the pontoon with sheet metal screws
(pulls most of the distortion out). We're talking about the plate the
retainers attach to, not the retainers themselves.

> Well that is my whole worry, since there seems to be no way to get 
> the plate off and lessen the tention in the torsion bars........
> 

Dave slowly and methodically worked the retainer off WHILE TENSION WAS
HELD BY THE MAN WITH THE HEX TOOL. It certainly did not fly off the
splines, but eventually did come loose. MAKE SURE YOUR HEX TOOL
REMAINS FULLY SEATED WHILE YOU DO THIS (Dave's assistant beat back
against the tool every time he pried, like an old chain gang).

The last thing I want to do is speak for someone else, and everything
I say should be given the weight of a novice. Your best bet would be
to contact an experienced torsion bar adjuster directly. He might be
able to give your mechanic enough info to perform the operation
successfully over there. FWIW the key points I observed:
   This is not a job for "Made in China"
   Keep the hex tool firmly seated in the torsion bar at all times (it
*will* work itself loose)
   This is a two person job -- one to work the hex tool and one to
perform the adjustment (good communication between them is extremely
important)
   This is a three person job if you don't have something supporting
the door when the torsion bar is unloaded
   The hex tool man *must* hold *all* the tension whenever the
retainer is loose from the car
   The retainer should slip easily on & off splines on the torsion
bar. If it's tight or even stuck, Dave has a neat trick that will
reset them (you'll have to pull the bar out of the car)
   Treat yourself to new retainer bolts as part of the procedure
Again, I'm no expert. Please consult someone who is.

> Luckely I live only 1 hours drive away from a very able mechanic,
> that still doesn't solve our problem for getting the plate loose:
> -(
> 

Stick with it, but be careful. Should you find success, I guarantee
you'll be thrilled with the results. I never realized how important
proper function of my vehicle at rest was to my overall enjoyment of
the car (the parking lot is as important as the freeway).
Bill Robertson
#5939






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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:47:24 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Sir Kenneth Cork and the original DeLorean Motor Company

Sir Kenneth Cork, the receiver for DMCL, the manufacturing arm of the
original DeLorean Motor Company devoted a chapter of his autobiography to
his experience with JZD and DMC/DMCL. Entitled "Cork on Cork", the book was
published by MacMillan London in 1988 and is now out of print and
occasionally difficult to obtain. Excerpts relating to the DeLorean events
have been posted in three parts here:

http://www.webspawner.com/users/dmcguy/index.html
http://www.webspawner.com/users/dmcguy2/index.html
http://www.webspawner.com/users/dmcguy3/index.html

History buffs may find some bits of it interesting...

James




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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:00:47 -0700
From: "IN2TIME" <Gary_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>
Subject: RE: Run Cooling Fans Flat Out ? / Bob Zilla

Bob and List,

Note: I'm not trying to sell (or un-sell) anything, and I don't think
that Bob was trying to sell anything either.  I'm just trying to clear
up some potential confusion. 

IMHO, most of Bob's comments are valid. However, he seems to be
commenting on running the fans continuously while using the stock
circuit design (which could definitely be a bad thing). This should not
be confused with the recent postings about a specific design change (or
set of changes) that eliminates the blue fan-fail relay, splits the fan
current between two relays, upgrades the circuit breaker, makes the fans
run continuously only when an AC mode is selected, etc., etc..  Several
people have been successfully running their cars for years with the
proposed design changes. 

As to the difference between "continuous running current" and "duty
cycle current spikes every ten seconds", it would take a lot more than
opinions to determine which is worse. The Fanzilla design reduces the
severity of the spikes.  Continuous-run designs reduce the frequency (to
one).

I'm in complete agreement that the basic system should be functioning
properly BEFORE any improvements are even considered.

OBTW, If it was true that "The Lotus Engineers knew EXACTLY what they
were doing" and "If your cooling system is up to snuff it will work just
fine", then there would be no market for Triple-core non-plastic
radiators, Fanzillas, or other related "design improvements". I doubt
that fan-fail failures and circuit breaker triping were part of their
"duty cycle" equations :-) 

As is the case with most designs, there are many ways to obtain the
desired results. With constraints on time and budget, the "first
acceptible design" is often implemented - and usually works - at least
for a while.  With additional design time, more efficient and effective
designs can be developed. Bob has proven this with his excellent line of
plug-and-play products. Others have also proven this with their
innovative and cost-effective do-it-yourself designs. 

Some people continue to drive with the original designs - with varying
degrees of success.  Some have more money than time or experience, and
choose plug-and-play options.  I used to do electrical/electronic
design, installation, and test, and now I'm a computer-jockey, so I love
to do the electrical work on my car myself - when I have the time :-)

Gary
www.IN2TIME.com





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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 19:40:22 +0200
From: klaus.steiner_at_dml_t-online.de
Subject: Silicone Water Hoses

Hello DML,

I have some more sets of the two DMC-waterhoses beside the water pump for
sale.
(Part #108676 and #108675). These black silicone hoses are made by SAMCO in
GB (www.samcosport.com)

Price is $100 per Set which includes standard shipping worldwide!

Pictures, specification and order information on
http://www.steinerklaus.de/dmc/hoses/index.htm


Klaus Steiner
www.steinerklaus.de
VIN #05980
Germany




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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:33:44 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: Anti-rattle springs

I bought new front and rear pads last year from PJ Grady but I couldn't
figger out how the springs are installed. Can anyone 'splain it to me?

Travis
#3512 



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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:47:37 +0200
From: Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>
Subject: Re: Vacuum Source For Turbo Cars

On 13-08-2002, David Teitelbaum wrote:

> I just came across a way for Delorean owners with turbos
> to have a constant and reliable vacuum source for the
> heating/A/C, automatic trans, and power brakes.
> This is an electric vacuum pump that can supply
> vacuum to run accesories.

Another possibility is something I've seen on a DeLorean
with a VOLVO PRV in it (I believe from a 260) from a local
owner; he has a vacuum pump running off of the driverside
camshaft, on top of the rocker cover.

I happen to have an old engine from a Volvo 262 around,
that SEEMS to have something similar, but I still have to
check out the engine; it might be a B27 instead of a B28
and in that case I don't think I can use the parts.

Another thing he has is a power-CLUTCH, with a
vacuum booster, just like on the brake. NICE!
Maybe he can step forward and tell some more about
it, as all I know is from what I saw and he told when
I was visiting a couple of weeks ago...

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

------------------------------




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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:59:37 -0400
From: "Mike Aninger" <mike_at_dml_ninja.net>
Subject: Re: CUSTOM RIMS

There have been several answers to this posting, but no one answered this
guys question...

> Before I order them I need the specs, here is what I know thusfar-
>
> Front- 14 X 6" bolt pattern 4-100 offset 40mm
> Rear- 15 X 8" bolt pattern 4-100 offset 20mm
>
> Is this correct? What else should I look for or ask?
> Thanks in advance for everyones help!
>
>                                              Rick Barranco
>                                           delorean_at_dml_earthink.net
>                                                Vin# 3268
>                                                 "DMCXII"

Is that a posative or a negative offset?  What about the centerbore?  What
is the lug hole size? Are his numbers corect?  Someone please answer, as I'm
curious too!

-Mike A.





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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:40:25 -0400
From: Michael T Twigger <marktwigger_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: strange ticking noise

Ok I was driving down a fairly steep hill in 3rd gear and as
 the road came back up there was a loud ticking noise, which 
sounded like in the rear. When I press down on the clutch the
noise goes off let it up and it comes on again. When I press on the brake
the noise goes off. After a couple of miles going 55 in 5th the sound is
gone,
and it never comes on again. The next day I drive the same way and the
noise 
comes back, exactly the same spot. Then again it goes off.

Is this something to do with the drive shaft  brakes or what?.
The Delorean and the rear engine setup is all new to me.

Thanks

Mark Twigger

#1366




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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:26:27 -0000
From: "roscsyl" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Run Cooling Fans Flat Out ? / Bob Zilla

Gary - In my opinion, most of the problems people have with cooling
are maintenance issues, not design deficiencies.  Not changing
coolant on a regular basis, not properly bleeding the system,
etc. are the primary causes.  The market for these uprated
parts are to provide more margin for poor maintenance practices.

Mike

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "IN2TIME" <Gary_at_dml_I...> wrote:

> 
> OBTW, If it was true that "The Lotus Engineers knew EXACTLY what 
they
> were doing" and "If your cooling system is up to snuff it will work 
just
> fine", then there would be no market for Triple-core non-plastic
> radiators, Fanzillas, or other related "design improvements". 




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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:57:53 EDT
From: beatlesra1_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Detroit dream cruise 2002

Hey Marv,
The DCO will be well represented this Saturday at the DreamCruise and on 
behalf of the Ohio Club I say PLEASE COME! and the rest of you also! if you 
wanna see cars this is the place! 16 miles of Carsmatic fun!

Chuck Darling
Vin#6125 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 00:23:16 -0000
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: Re: strange ticking noise

Mark (or is it Mike?  See the header below) - This is literally a shot 
in the dark, but check this out - It sounds like the tick comes when 
you have the rear of the car loaded a bit (accelerating, "bottoming 
out" at the base of a long dip, etc.)  Has your car been lowered?  The 
reason I ask is that I had a similar experience after I lowered my car 
down 1.75" in the rear, and 3.5" in the front.  When the rear squatted 
down, I would hear a noise like a tick.  It turned out that the sheet 
metal dust shields below the trailing arms were rubbing on the drive 
axles.  There was a shiny band on the axles, and a wear mark on the 
shields.  The fix was to bend the edge of the shield up a little in 
the local area above the drive axle to create some additional 
clearance.  I hope that helps.

Toby Peterson VIN 2248
Winged1


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Michael T Twigger <marktwigger_at_dml_j...> wrote:
>Ok I was driving down a fairly steep hill in 3rd gear and as
>the road came back up there was a loud ticking noise, which 
>sounded like in the rear. When I press down on the clutch the
>noise goes off let it up and it comes on again. When I press on the 
>brake the noise goes off. After a couple of miles going 55 in 5th the 
>sound is gone, and it never comes on again. The next day I drive the 
>same way and the noise comes back, exactly the same spot. Then again 
>it goes off.
>Is this something to do with the drive shaft  brakes or what?.
>The Delorean and the rear engine setup is all new to me.





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