From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1166
Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 12:21 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Black DeLorean Sighting in CT
From: Jason Pucci <jasonsdlo_at_dml_yahoo.com>

2. Re: Water pump woes?
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. Re: Re: Water pump woes?
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

4. Re: Re: Water pump woes?
From: milestwo_at_dml_aol.com

5. Woodward Dream cruise - not
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>

6. Re: Arm Rest Removal
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

7. Breaking it
From: "Christopher M. Hawes" <chris_at_dml_hawes74.freeserve.co.uk>

8. RE: Living the Dream and letting the Dream live On
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

9. Re: Living the Dream and letting the Dream live On
From: "Christopher M. Hawes" <chris_at_dml_hawes74.freeserve.co.uk>

10. The origin of original cost.
From: "treehouse2000us" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com>

11. Fuel Pump Terminal Corrosion
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>

12. Charging system curiosity
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>

13. Re: Fuel Pump Terminal Corrosion
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

14. Re: Fuel Pump Terminal Corrosion
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

15. Re: Fuel Pump Terminal Corrosion
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

16. Re: Charging system curiosity
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

17. Re: Charging system curiosity
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

18. Re: Breaking it
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

19. Re: Breaking it
From: Bastiaan Olij <mux_at_dml_wxs.nl>

20. RE: Breaking it
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

21. Steering Rack Problem (or: It's payday, and my car knows!).
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

22. brake wheel bearings
From: "rorx2000" <rorx2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>

23. Woodward DreamCruise 2002 / Fuel Injection Solved!
From: "pbartusek" <pbmain_at_dml_mindspring.com>

24. Re: Stuck Door
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>

25. Re: taillights won"t work (was: Breaking it)
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 07:07:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jason Pucci <jasonsdlo_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Black DeLorean Sighting in CT


I was in CT yesterday on 84 south near Bethel (not in my DeLorean) and saw a black DeLorean traveling north on 84. It looked great.  Anyone on the list?

Jason
VIN 7172

 



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs, a Yahoo! service - Search Thousands of New Jobs

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:38:22 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Water pump woes?

IMHO what starts this sequence of events are small leaks on top of the 
motor from the distribution pipe and-or the hoses off the back of the 
water pump. When the owner eventually lets the level get too low air 
gets into the system and is never properly bled out. The way to avoid 
this is to replace all hoses and seals. The continuous bleeder is a 
good idea but really isn't required on a car that has a tight system 
with no leaks. It can be done but it requires a lot of work to make 
the system completly tight. Another little thing I have done (but not 
on Deloreans) is to drill a small (1/8) hole in the plate of the 
thermostat so it can pass air. This helps on other cars so it might 
work on Deloreans but I have never needed to do it as on a tight 
system once you bleed it it doesn't have any air inside to pass. If 
you are still driving on origional hoses and water pump then you are 
just asking for trouble, never mind about a little air. For any owners 
who have to add coolant be warned that this is a signal of a serious 
problem. You will never see the lost coolant on the floor because of 
the way the leaks leave it on top of the motor to evaporate.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "IN2TIME" <Gary_at_dml_I...> wrote:
> I often hear about how someone's car got low on coolant and "got a 
bit
> hot".  They put some water in the overflow tank and the next time 
they
> drive the car, it overheats again, and again, and again. Often they
> explain that "at least the gage never got above XXX degrees".  If 
they





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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:26:59 -0400
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Water pump woes?

Gary, Mabe this is the problem. The thermostat should be 
87 degree C which is about 187 to 189F. If you have it at 160 degree F, then the thermostat is open all the time and the coolant slows down to cool.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com
 

> The main flow starts when the thermostat opens (at about 
> 160 degrees).





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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:40:24 EDT
From: milestwo_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Water pump woes?

  Just a thought on air bubbles and water not circulating, a closed 
thermostat will trap an air pocket below it and not open when the engine is 
warmed up, Drill a small hole (1/8 th) is fine thru the thermostat flange to 
let the air thru, coolant will then circulate and the thermostat will open 
right and allow you to bleed the air from the system. It's not a Delorean 
problem only, all cars will do this, have been doing this since the fifties 
and saved a lot of over heating problems. Just keep checking your coolant 
bottle, as the air bleeds out more coolant will have to added.
Lloyd---#3502


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:09:43 -0400
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>
Subject: Woodward Dream cruise - not

So I had made my choice and went boating this past weekend on a 40' aft
cabin cruiser instead of driving my DeLorean to Detroit. A hatch cover
slammed down in the wind and caught my shoeless foot on the big toe ---
don't ask! Once again I had made the wrong decision and the D gods got me! I
will not miss Pigeon Forge, I will not miss Pigeon Forge, I will not
miss......

Marv
# 17707
marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com





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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:51:54 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Arm Rest Removal

I can't remember if I used an extension or not, but I don't believe 
that I did. Removal of the arm rests isn't all that bad (try 
replacing a bypass hose on the water pump without removing the pump, 
THAT is a challenge!). I first sent this message privately off the 
list, but perhaps it's best shared. Plus there was one item I forgot.

1. Pull the upper door trim piece.
2. With the door locked, lift up the door latch handle, and pull the 
trim piece below up, and out.
3. Using a rachet & socket, reach down from above, and remove the 2 
bolts holding the door grab handle in place.
4. Remove all screws that are holding the lower trim piece, and the 
pull strap in place.
5. Pry the lower trim/arm rest  off the door.

Installation is simply reverse.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., BondAtomic_at_dml_a... wrote:
> I think all you really need to get the bolts of death out is a long 
> extension, a ratchet, and a 10 mm socket. Putting it back in is a 
different 
> story though-a lot harder to get in. Some guys use tape to adhere 
the bolt to 
> the socket so it won't drop. I actually went and bought a slightly 
longer 
> bolt so I could control it better to get it into place. 
> 
> Those two bolts have to be two of the hardest bolts on the entire 
car. If 
> not, tell me where not to go.
> 
> John
> 4275




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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:43:02 +0100
From: "Christopher M. Hawes" <chris_at_dml_hawes74.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Breaking it

After I fitted a reflector the other day in my rear tail light cluster.
(Kindly offered by a DOC member as my car was always missing one) I cleaned
both clusters which dramatically increased the brightness but have now
noticed that my break lights have packed up.

I am going to get a meter to check if there are any breaks.

Theories at the moment are as follows:-

1)    The Breaklight switch has decided to quit

2)    The wiring from the switch is knackered

3)    Have absolutely no other theories.....

I have not had the car that long, still yet to get my hands on a circuit
diagram.  Does anyone know if one exists online?????

Any suggestions???

Thanks in advance

Chris H
#5255






----- Original Message -----
From: twinenginedmc12 <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 3:48 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: Stuck Door


> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., wmack <wmack_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> > I still can't get my driver's door open.  I have tried messing with
> the rods
> > and everything, and nothing works.  I'm at the point now where I am
> thinking
> > of drilling out the old latch assembly from the inside.  Has anyone
> tried this
> > before?
> >
> > Thanks
> >   Willie
> >   Vin 5043
>
> Hi Willie.
>
> It sounds frustrating.  I'd be eyeballing my hammer as the tool of
> choice by now, I'm sure (just kidding).  If you can wait a day,
> before drilling, I'll root around inside my door to come up with a
> troubleshooting sequence.  If it were my car, I would not drill out
> the latch or use force unless there were no alternatives.  You
> mentioned in your first post that the rear latch works okay, and that
> the door clears the rear pin.  How did you determine that the door
> clears the pin?  Did you pull on the door with the front latch stuck
> closed?
>
> What have you removed so far from the inside of the door to get at
> the linkage?
>
> It's easy to tell whether the door is just a little jammed.  I doubt
> it is.  To test the theory that the door is just jammed, you can
> manipulate the latch rods inside the car, while having someone else
> gently lift the door from the outside, from the bottom of the door,
> not the handle, which breaks off easily.  You can also do this alone
> by reaching in the open window to manipulate the rods, while
> simultaneously lifting the door.
>
> I suspect that the latch is still in fact closed, as if it were
> locked ,and that we haven't figured out yet exactly what is wrong
> with the linkage.
>
> Rick Gendreau
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>




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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 16:58:21 -0500
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Living the Dream and letting the Dream live On

Oh yes! I contacted all my previous owners (well, except for Jerry Clemmings
a small-time dealer). It was very nice to chat with them and find out some
information my files. All of them kept some paperwork and whatnot that they
would not part with, however. I can't blame them. They all had a tough time
parting with the car, in fact; they only sold it because it wasn't getting
the attention it needed (due to high crime, bad roads, boys getting old
enough to drive ;-). I can't begrudge them a little momento.
The internet is a great place.
If only I could track down Mr. Jerry Clemmings, or Cummings, a used car
dealer who may be in or around Spokane (at least 10 years ago). hint hint,
Washingtonians.
-Kevin
#4687

-----Original Message-----
From: fivetwofive [mailto:CBL302_at_dml_msn.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 10:11 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Living the Dream and letting the Dream live On


I recieved this email Saturday,and I am quite amazed,how with todays
technoligies,I could be/or others could be in touch with the owners
of one of my previous Deloreans from 1988 !!
So far there was the orignal owner(which I contacted) then "Me"
Then the person I sold it to, Then the owner in NYC (which I
contacted) Then 16686 was bought and shipped to Great Britian,which I
found who that buyer was and contacted him.(it was sold on Ebay)Now
the latest Buyer Contacted me.  Amazing that this goes back to
1988 !! I was just wondering if instead of fixing 16686 I used it for
parts,how different,the lives of the owners after me would be, past
and present.. All I can say is try to keep in contact with the next
generation of owners of your Delorean,once the time comes,to sell
your Delorean,you will be amazed where your Delorean ends up,as of
now there are TWO of my past Deloreans roaming around in Europe !!
JZD's Dream of Living the Dream is still Living and being enjoyed by
the next Generation.
Live the Dream and let it live On!!

Claude
000570
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Alexander" <stuartalexander>
To: <cbl302_at_dml_msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 11:46 AM
Subject: DeLorean vin 16686


> Hi,
>
> I hope you don't mind me contacting you but I have recently
purchased a 1983
> DeLorean with vin # 16686 and believe you have owned the car in the
past.  I
> live in the UK where I bought the car from Mike Norwood who
explained to me
> what he knew about the car's history (ie. the accident repair)
before I
> bought it.  He also gave me your name.
>
> Mike said that you have a video of the repairs you carried out to
the car
> (in 1987 I believe?).  I would be very interested to see a copy of
this if
> possible and hear any other information you may have on 16686.
>
> The car has now covered 42000 miles and is in pretty good condition
apart
> from some chassis rust.  I'm very pleased with it and have just
returned
> from a 2000 mile trip around France with no problems.  I hope to
keep the
> car for a long time as owning a DeLorean has always been a dream of
mine!
>
> I look forward to hearing from you,
>
> Stuart Alexander
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________




To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:17:51 +0100
From: "Christopher M. Hawes" <chris_at_dml_hawes74.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Living the Dream and letting the Dream live On

I bought my car in February 2002.  I believe it had been in the UK for less
than 2 years.  The vin is 5255 and had 5880 miles on it when I bought it.
It is a grey five speed with the pleated bonnet and no fuel cap.  The silver
wheels and is dated October 1981.

Does anyone know about it's history, I think it came from Arizona......

Chris
#5255




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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:37:31 -0000
From: "treehouse2000us" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: The origin of original cost.

A few years ago, many people inquired to why our beloved DeLoreans 
model name is DMC-12.  I will let you draw your own conclusions, but 
I stumbled upon something interesting a few days ago.  You know those 
index cards for cars.  I came acrost the Mercedes 300SL Gullwing.  
How much did it originally sell for?  You got it, $12,000.

Thomas Porter
(Loves the List but Lives for the Car.)




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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:54:25 -0000
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: Fuel Pump Terminal Corrosion

Hello List - I haven't seen this topic on the List yet, so I thought I 
would toss this in for general information.  Last night, I worked on a 
DeLorean for several hours that was suffering from an "apparent hot 
start" problem.  The owner, who had just recently purchased the car, 
went to a gas station for a fillup, and the car would not start 
afterwards.  We swapped the CPR and cold start connectors, and the car 
started instantly, and idled with a slight "hunt".  We turned it off, 
and put the connectors back to their normal positions.  The car would 
not even think of starting after that.  We confirmed a spark at the 
spark plug high-tension leads.  We confirmed a fuel delivery problem 
by using starting fluid.  The engine would catch, and then immediately 
die.  We looked at all applicable fuses and relays, and found a melted 
fuse for the brake lights (!???) and a hot fuse for the electric 
mirrors (!???).  These were not involved in the immediate problem, but 
are still curious.  In any event, we sought to confirm power to the 
fuel pump by opening the access to the pump in the spare tire well.  
Bottom line - water had gotten into the area above the pump, and 
corroded the electrical terminals completely off of the pump.  The 
boot and cover installation looked perfect, but apparently wasn't.  
The car rode home on a flat bed truck.  The moral of the story is to 
arrange for an inspection of this area before you are left stranded.  
This is the fourth car that I know of personally that had this exact 
same problem. (Yes ... mine was one of them, 2 years ago)

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
Winged1




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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 00:15:45 -0000
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: Charging system curiosity

Hello List - I've got a little challenge with Winged1 that is outside 
of my limited knowledge of electricity.  To begin with, I have a Delco 
108 amp alternator installed (for the past 8 years or so).  At 
present, my "idiot light" is glowing most of the time, and the voltage 
in the system is showing 14.5 volts using a digital multimeter at the 
battery terminal in the engine bay.  The static voltage in the car is 
about 13.2 volts with the engine off.  If I idle the engine, and turn 
on everything, I see a voltage pull down to about 13.2 volts.  Is this 
an internal regulator challenge with the alternator, or some bizarre 
ground situation?  I know that the voltages are high ... hmmmmm.  
There is evidence of outgassing from the battery.  Any ideas from you 
"closet sparkies" out there?

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
Winged1 - Structures ... yes.  Electricity ... bah, humbug.




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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:07:56 -0400
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Terminal Corrosion


I had that exact same problem on my way to Cleveland '2000.  I had bought
the car one week before the trip. While DMCJoe was doing some other repairs
while in Cleveland, he took a look at my fuel pump and boot.  Factory
original (of course).. the boot was entirely dry-rotted, and a pool of water
had the rusted contacts submerged.  He said it was a miracle that I even
made it to Cleveland without the pump failing in that condition.  Of course,
I had a new pump/boot installed.  The DMC gods were smiling on me that day.

-Hank  #1619




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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 01:10:20 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Terminal Corrosion

The moral of this story is that after 20 some odd years ALL of the 
hidden areas of the car must be inspected. I also believe this points 
out that many of the fuel system problems begin at the fuel tank. This 
winter when you store your car for the season (all us owners up north) 
 drain the tank and make a though inspection of the fuel tank and 
pump boot. There are many other hidden areas and someday maybe someone 
will make a list of them. It also sounds like the owner of this car 
never looked at the fuseblock before. It is always better to inspect 
and find potential problems before they cause trouble (like melted 
fuses) then when you are stranded. 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_k...> wrote:
> Hello List - I haven't seen this topic on the List yet, so I thought 
I 
> would toss this in for general information.  Last night, I worked on 
a 
> DeLorean for several hours that was suffering from an "apparent hot 
> start" problem.  The owner, who had just recently purchased the car, 
> went to a gas station for a fillup, and the car would not start 
> afterwards.  We swapped the CPR and cold start connectors, and the 
car 
> started instantly, and idled with a slight "hunt".  We turned it 
off, 
> and put the connectors back to their normal positions.  The car 
would 
> not even think of starting after that.  We confirmed a spark at the 
> spark plug high-tension leads.  We confirmed a fuel delivery problem 
> by using starting fluid.  The engine would catch, and then 
immediately 
> die.  We looked at all applicable fuses and relays, and found a 
melted 
> fuse for the brake lights (!???) and a hot fuse for the electric 
> mirrors (!???).  These were not involved in the immediate problem, 
but 





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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 05:46:48 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Terminal Corrosion

In a fit of brilliance, DMC placed the drain for the windshield trough
directly above the fuel pump. Don't need to be a rocket scientist to
see where all the water comes from. Very high on my list of priorities
is to engineer a gutter on mine to drain that water away (and yes, I
won't make it restrictive to catch any more tree detrius).

Will post the result as soon as I finish my electrical mods (remember
the great tail light project...)

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_k...> wrote:
> Hello List - I haven't seen this topic on the List yet, so I thought I 
> would toss this in for general information.  Last night, I worked on a 
> DeLorean for several hours that was suffering from an "apparent hot 
> start" problem.  The owner, who had just recently purchased the car, 
> went to a gas station for a fillup, and the car would not start 
> afterwards.  We swapped the CPR and cold start connectors, and the car 
> started instantly, and idled with a slight "hunt".  We turned it off, 
> and put the connectors back to their normal positions.  The car would 
> not even think of starting after that.  We confirmed a spark at the 
> spark plug high-tension leads.  We confirmed a fuel delivery problem 
> by using starting fluid.  The engine would catch, and then immediately 
> die.  We looked at all applicable fuses and relays, and found a melted 
> fuse for the brake lights (!???) and a hot fuse for the electric 
> mirrors (!???).  These were not involved in the immediate problem, but 
> are still curious.  In any event, we sought to confirm power to the 
> fuel pump by opening the access to the pump in the spare tire well.  
> Bottom line - water had gotten into the area above the pump, and 
> corroded the electrical terminals completely off of the pump.  The 
> boot and cover installation looked perfect, but apparently wasn't.  
> The car rode home on a flat bed truck.  The moral of the story is to 
> arrange for an inspection of this area before you are left stranded.  
> This is the fourth car that I know of personally that had this exact 
> same problem. (Yes ... mine was one of them, 2 years ago)
> 
> Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
> Winged1




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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 01:23:15 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Charging system curiosity

From the description of the symptoms my guess is a bad voltage 
regulater in the alternater. The alternater is running "flat out", 
that is the regulater is bad and thinks the battery is low and is 
telling the alternater to output full. Take the alternater off and 
have an auto electrical shop "bench" it. That is they put it on a test 
bench and can control the load and watch it operate. If confirmed bad 
the regulater is easy to replace but it may be smarter to get a 
rebuilt with new bearings and brushes too. If the battery was 
subjected to overcharging it may need to be replaced too. Take it 
along and have it load tested. Be careful, before removing the 
alternater disconnect the battery. If this was a grounding problem you 
wouldn't have full output on the alternater, the starter wouldn't 
work, and the idiot light wouldn't come on. This could have been 
caused by jump-starting or accidently touching the cables the wrong 
way.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_k...> wrote:
> Hello List - I've got a little challenge with Winged1 that is 
outside 
> of my limited knowledge of electricity.  To begin with, I have a 
Delco 
> 108 amp alternator installed (for the past 8 years or so).  At 
> present, my "idiot light" is glowing most of the time, and the 
voltage 
> in the system is showing 14.5 volts using a digital multimeter at 
the 
> battery terminal in the engine bay.  The static voltage in the car 
is 
> about 13.2 volts with the engine off.  If I idle the engine, and 
turn 
> on everything, I see a voltage pull down to about 13.2 volts.  Is 
this 
> an internal regulator challenge with the alternator, or some bizarre 
> ground situation?  I know that the voltages are high ... hmmmmm.  
> There is evidence of outgassing from the battery.  Any ideas from 
you 
> "closet sparkies" out there?
> 
> Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
> Winged1 - Structures ... yes.  Electricity ... bah, humbug.




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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 05:30:12 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Charging system curiosity

Toby, I'll insert my comments to your post.

To begin with, I have a Delco 
108 amp alternator installed (for the past 8 years or so). 
At present, my "idiot light" is glowing most of the time, 
( This indicates normally a short to ground, either through the regulator or 
diodes. ) and the voltage in the system is showing 14.5 volts using a digital 
multimeter at the 
battery terminal in the engine bay. 
( This is the correct place to measure the voltage and 14.4 up to 14.7 is a 
typical regulator voltage. You can get higher. It will vary with manufactures 
and application.)  
The static voltage in the car is about 13.2 volts with the engine off. 
( With the car off the OCV voltage should be 12.66 , Do this test. Turn on 
the head lights for about one minuet and then wait for about 5 minuets and 
test the OCV again and see if the battery is about 12.66 volts.)( OCV is Open 
circuit voltage)
If I idle the engine, and turn on everything, I see a voltage pull down to 
about 13.2 volts.  Is this an internal regulator challenge with the 
alternator, or some bizarre 
ground situation? 
(With everything turned on and the alternator /regulator is at 13.2 
volts,This is good. )
What RPM are you idling.
Was the alternator hot or cold when the test was done.
 I know that the voltages are high ... hmmmmm.  
(Your voltages aren't high at all.)
There is evidence of outgassing from the battery.
( This is normal at times)
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/alternators.shtml



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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 05:39:07 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Breaking it

The rivets that hold the sockets to the PC board are notorious for
working loose. Try tightening with very small nuts & bolts (#4's work
excellent, especially if you tap them first). On my vehicle the
negative sides were already hollow but the positives needed holes
drilled through their centers. 

Treat yourself to stainless steel hardware.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Christopher M. Hawes" <chris_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> After I fitted a reflector the other day in my rear tail light cluster.
> (Kindly offered by a DOC member as my car was always missing one) I
cleaned
> both clusters which dramatically increased the brightness but have now
> noticed that my break lights have packed up.
> 
> I am going to get a meter to check if there are any breaks.
> 
> Theories at the moment are as follows:-
> 
> 1)    The Breaklight switch has decided to quit
> 
> 2)    The wiring from the switch is knackered
> 
> 3)    Have absolutely no other theories.....
> 
> I have not had the car that long, still yet to get my hands on a circuit
> diagram.  Does anyone know if one exists online?????
> 
> Any suggestions???
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Chris H
> #5255
> 





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:31:12 +0200
From: Bastiaan Olij <mux_at_dml_wxs.nl>
Subject: Re: Breaking it

At Monday, 19 August 2002, you wrote:

Hi Chris,

The diagram used to be online on the dutch delorean site (www.delorean.
nl)but for some reason the link downloading the schematic is dead.
May be a temporary thing or the firewall at work playing tricks 
on me so you may want to check it out (go to "techniek" and then 
look for electrical diagram).

I probably have it at home somewhere aswell but I need to look tonight 
for that.

As for your lights problem. Start by cleaning your connectors and 
using some contact spray on them, worked mirracles on my DMC. 

Greetz,

Bastiaan Olij

>After I fitted a reflector the other day in my rear tail light cluster.
>(Kindly offered by a DOC member as my car was always missing one) 
I cleaned
>both clusters which dramatically increased the brightness but have now
>noticed that my break lights have packed up.
>
>I am going to get a meter to check if there are any breaks.
>
>Theories at the moment are as follows:-
>
>1)    The Breaklight switch has decided to quit
>
>2)    The wiring from the switch is knackered
>
>3)    Have absolutely no other theories.....
>
>I have not had the car that long, still yet to get my hands on a 
circuit
>diagram.  Does anyone know if one exists online?????
>
>Any suggestions???
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Chris H
>#5255
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: twinenginedmc12 <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>
>To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 3:48 PM
>Subject: [DML] Re: Stuck Door
>
>> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., wmack <wmack_at_dml_v...> wrote:
>> > I still can't get my driver's door open.  I have tried messing with
>> the rods
>> > and everything, and nothing works.  I'm at the point now where I am
>> thinking
>> > of drilling out the old latch assembly from the inside.  Has anyone
>> tried this
>> > before?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >   Willie
>> >   Vin 5043
>>
>> Hi Willie.
>>
>> It sounds frustrating.  I'd be eyeballing my hammer as the tool of
>> choice by now, I'm sure (just kidding).  If you can wait a day,
>> before drilling, I'll root around inside my door to come up with a
>> troubleshooting sequence.  If it were my car, I would not drill out
>> the latch or use force unless there were no alternatives.  You
>> mentioned in your first post that the rear latch works okay, and that
>> the door clears the rear pin.  How did you determine that the door
>> clears the pin?  Did you pull on the door with the front latch stuck
>> closed?
>>
>> What have you removed so far from the inside of the door to get at
>> the linkage?
>>
>> It's easy to tell whether the door is just a little jammed.  I doubt
>> it is.  To test the theory that the door is just jammed, you can
>> manipulate the latch rods inside the car, while having someone else
>> gently lift the door from the outside, from the bottom of the door,
>> not the handle, which breaks off easily.  You can also do this alone
>> by reaching in the open window to manipulate the rods, while
>> simultaneously lifting the door.
>>
>> I suspect that the latch is still in fact closed, as if it were
>> locked ,and that we haven't figured out yet exactly what is wrong
>> with the linkage.
>>
>> Rick Gendreau
>>
>>
>>
>> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>>
>> To search the archives or view files, log in at
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.
com/group/dmcnews 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:44:00 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Breaking it

If our brake light is out, just from removing the your tail light, it is
more than likely the circuit board. The rivets that hold the bulb sockets in
wiggle loose after a while. I broke down and re-riveted mine and haven't had
a problem since. PJ Grady sells updated boards as well. 

Have a friend press the brake while you have the circuit boards out. Press
the bulbs down with your hand and see if the added pressure causes them to
light up. If so, the connections went bad.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher M. Hawes [mailto:chris_at_dml_hawes74.freeserve.co.uk]
> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 5:43 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Breaking it
> 
> After I fitted a reflector the other day in my rear tail light cluster.
> (Kindly offered by a DOC member as my car was always missing one) I
> cleaned
> both clusters which dramatically increased the brightness but have now
> noticed that my break lights have packed up.
> 
> I am going to get a meter to check if there are any breaks.
> 
> Theories at the moment are as follows:-
> 
> 1)    The Breaklight switch has decided to quit
> 
> 2)    The wiring from the switch is knackered
> 
> 3)    Have absolutely no other theories.....
> 
> I have not had the car that long, still yet to get my hands on a circuit
> diagram.  Does anyone know if one exists online?????
> 
> Any suggestions???
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Chris H
> #5255
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: twinenginedmc12 <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>
> To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 3:48 PM
> Subject: [DML] Re: Stuck Door
> 
> 
> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., wmack <wmack_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> > > I still can't get my driver's door open.  I have tried messing with
> > the rods
> > > and everything, and nothing works.  I'm at the point now where I am
> > thinking
> > > of drilling out the old latch assembly from the inside.  Has anyone
> > tried this
> > > before?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >   Willie
> > >   Vin 5043
> >
> > Hi Willie.
> >
> > It sounds frustrating.  I'd be eyeballing my hammer as the tool of
> > choice by now, I'm sure (just kidding).  If you can wait a day,
> > before drilling, I'll root around inside my door to come up with a
> > troubleshooting sequence.  If it were my car, I would not drill out
> > the latch or use force unless there were no alternatives.  You
> > mentioned in your first post that the rear latch works okay, and that
> > the door clears the rear pin.  How did you determine that the door
> > clears the pin?  Did you pull on the door with the front latch stuck
> > closed?
> >
> > What have you removed so far from the inside of the door to get at
> > the linkage?
> >
> > It's easy to tell whether the door is just a little jammed.  I doubt
> > it is.  To test the theory that the door is just jammed, you can
> > manipulate the latch rods inside the car, while having someone else
> > gently lift the door from the outside, from the bottom of the door,
> > not the handle, which breaks off easily.  You can also do this alone
> > by reaching in the open window to manipulate the rods, while
> > simultaneously lifting the door.
> >
> > I suspect that the latch is still in fact closed, as if it were
> > locked ,and that we haven't figured out yet exactly what is wrong
> > with the linkage.
> >
> > Rick Gendreau
> >
> >
> >
> > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> > moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> >
> > To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 01:07:41 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Steering Rack Problem (or: It's payday, and my car knows!).

Yesterday, my garage floor was dry as a bone. But now it seems that I have a 
bit of oil on the ground. Feeling around, and then confirming visually, it would 
appear that my steering rack is leaking on the passenger side. And the leak is 
quite bad! 

So the question here is this: Is there anything that I can do to temporarily stop 
the leak to prehaps prolong the life of my steering rack a bit longer? I'm not 
being cheap, or anything like that. But if something is worth doing, it's worth 
doing right, and I'd like to try and save a bit of cash up first to also nab the Tie-
Rod Ends, the Busings, the Steering Shaft, and of course the alignment that 
I'm going to need afterwards at the same time.  If it means anything, the boots 
on the rack are in great condition, but the passenger side one that's leaking is 
a bit loose on the rack.

In the mean time, steering feels just fine, and is just as smooth as it's ever 
been.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 05:03:48 -0000
From: "rorx2000" <rorx2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: brake wheel bearings

Question, I am having my rotors turned and putting on new pads. but I 
can't get the bearings out of the front rotors so they can turn them. 
also when i put my delo on gear the back rotors continue to turn, do 
i need to put the wheels back on, then untighten the axle nut or is 
there so specail procedure? any help will be very helpful

Thanks 
rory
VIN#3010 1981 5spd




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Message: 23
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 14:38:51 -0000
From: "pbartusek" <pbmain_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: Woodward DreamCruise 2002 / Fuel Injection Solved!

I *almost* made it out there...and was extremely frustrated to be so 
close, but in the end missing it because of lack of parts access.  
The car had been in the shop a few months now, and they located the 
problem Friday, late morning - the injectors were the main cause of 
my months of frustration and the fact that I wasn't getting the car 
over 2000rpm even though it was idling nicely, not hunting, etc.  

Not sure if anyone else was following the thread of my past 
drivability issues, but they did everything under the sun to the 
fuel injection system.  Looked into the cold start regulator, 
swapped fuel pump/fuel distributors/ECU (temporarily), used a 
separate gas tank and pickup and gas itself, checked valve 
clearances and cam timing, replace faulty warm up regulator and 
remove intake to replace the non functioning thermal time switch, 
replace the o2 sensor, not to mention looked at the injectors, out 
of the car, long ago..but a different tech looked at it and a couple 
hours later - surprise: under pressure, the injectors were 
dribbling, even though the pattern was supposedly good when they 
were checked back in May.

Anyhow, I'll be ready for the next Dream Cruise...and hopefully will 
be cruising Woodward tonight, practicing for next year (at about 10 
times the dream cruise speed... :)  Should have much better 
performance since every thing on the car has been checked out, and 
the reduced weight of the money in my wallet should help the car get 
up to speed that much faster... (the sad fact of auto repair going 
this much overboard)

Pete




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Message: 24
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 16:02:14 -0000
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Door

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., wmack <wmack_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> I still can't get my driver's door open.  I have tried messing with 
the rods 
> and everything, and nothing works.  I'm at the point now where I am 
thinking 
> of drilling out the old latch assembly from the inside.  Has anyone 
tried this 
> before?
> 
> Thanks
>   Willie
>   Vin 5043

Hi Willie.  Here you go.


This troubleshooting sequence is tailor-made for Willie, who is 
having trouble with the front driver's side door latch of his car.  
The sequence makes assumptions that may be valid only for his car.  
I've called the parts I reference whatever I felt like.  There may be 
different, official names.  I apologise for not following convention, 
but feel it doesn't matter, as long as Willie can follow what I'm 
talking about.
Email me privately at twinenginedmc12(AT)gendreaumicro.com, and I'll 
give you my phone number, if you want verbal explanations of this 
hard to follow text, Willie.


Assumed:

The rear door latch is okay.
The torsion bar is installed and properly tensioned.
The door panels, armrest, and translucent plastic vapor barrier have 
been removed from the door.


Before you start:

Print these instructions out, so you can have them with you at the 
car.

If you find any broken, disconnected or bent parts, stop right there, 
and give me an email.  This sequence assumes everything's intact, 
which might be a stretch.

You might benefit from taking the panels off of the passenger door, 
to see how things work on the door that functions properly.  It's 
less destructive then wrecking the driver's side door latch 
mechanism.  Instruction manuals often recommend overhauling doors one 
at a time, so you can use the intact door for reference.

Lubricate all the pivot points in the linkage, just in case it's 
simple binding causing the trouble.

These are "no whining" instructions.  Use them at your own risk.


Start here.

1.  Check to determine whether front latch mechanism is locked.

Find the front lock actuator rod.  It's about 1/8inch in diameter, 
runs horizontally about 5inch from the bottom edge of the door, and 
has a distinguishing pair of 40-45degree bends in it.  On one side, 
it should connect to a lever at the cylindrical lock solenoid, on the 
other side it should connect to a t-shaped plastic piece at the lock 
mechanism.  At the t-shaped piece, the rod connects to what would be 
the "bottom" leg of the t.  

Try to move this rod back and forth, length-wise along its axis.  
Doing this locks and unlocks the car, if it's working right.  You 
should be able to move it back and forth about 3/8inch, using a 
pressure of only a few pounds.  Don't force it.  If you do, something 
will bend or break, introducing new and improved problems not covered 
by your DeLorean warranty :).  While you're moving it back and forth, 
there should be a distinctive k-click, c-klick noise.  This is the 
sound of the lock mechanisms locking, and unlocking.  There is a lock 
mechanism in the rear latch, and one in the front.  Each one makes 
its own noise.  They both need to work, to unlock the car.  Move the 
rod back and forth, while listening intently to the rear mechanism, 
and then the front mechanism.  Since you've already determined that 
the rear mechanism works okay, you should expect to hear the click, 
klick noise there without problems.  The front latch mechanism is the 
suspect one.  If you hear the click-klick noise at the front 
mechanism okay while you're moving the rod back and forth, it's 
likely that the lock is working okay. Move the rod toward the back of 
the car.  This is the unlocked position. 
Proceed to "3.  Unlatching the door."

If, on the other hand, you don't hear that click klick sound at the 
front latch, proceed to "2.  Unlocking the front lock manually at the 
latch mechanism."


2.  Unlocking the front lock manually at the front latch mechanism.

The T-shaped plastic part at the front latch mechanism can be 
manually actuated.  One end of the t, the part closest to you when 
you look at it, doesn't have anything connected to it.  Move this 
part of the t up and down.  Don't force it.  This plastic part should 
rotate back and forth, and you should here the click-klick sound of 
the lock locking and unlocking. If you hear this sound, move the part 
of the t described up.  This is the unlocked position.  Proceed 
to "3.  Unlatching the door."

If the t shaped part doesn't rotate freely, try to figure out what's 
jamming it.  This is probably the problem, causing your door to be 
stuck locked.  If it does move freely, but doesn't make the clicking 
noise, there's one move accessible part of the linkage to test.  The 
furthest-away from-you part of the t interfaces with another plastic 
part at the latch mechanism.  Try to move this part back and forth, 
listening for the click-klick sound of the lock locking and 
unlocking.  If you can't move this part back and forth, or don't hear 
the click-klick, the lock is probably jammed at the latch. You should 
get a professional at this point.


3.  Unlatching the door.

If you haven't convinced yourself the door is unlocked at this stage, 
it's pointless to proceed.  You must go back to  "1.  Check to 
determine whether front latch mechanism is locked." and make sure the 
door is unlocked first.

If you're sure the door is unlocked:
Find the front door latch actuator rod.  It runs horizontally about 
10inch above the bottom edge of the door.  One side is connected to a 
pivoting bracket that also connects to the door handle cable, the 
other to the front latch mechanism itself.  It can be distinguished 
by the adjustment turnbuckle on it.  It's possible that a bad or 
outdated adjustment to this turnbuckle is causing your problem, but 
we're not at that stage yet.  I mention it only to identify the rod.

Move this rod back and forth along its axis.  Don't force it.  It 
moves about the same distance back and forth as the front lock 
actuator rod, but doesn't make any particular noise, except for the 
quiet clicking together of the linkage parts and the door.  The latch 
mechanism is sprung, so as you move the rod toward the back of the 
car, it should put up progressively more resistance.  When you move 
the rod forward, the resistance should decrease.  Both the front and 
rear latch mechanisms have springs, so try to "feel" whether the 
front latch has this springyness or not.  We're assuming that the 
rear does, because it's working right.  If you don't feel this spring 
tension, or if you can't make the rod move, it may be jammed 
somewhere.  Try to find out where.
If it does move okay, and you feel the tension as described, then it 
might be okay.

Move the rod toward the back of the car.  This unlatches the front 
mechanism.  At this point, the front lock should be unlocked, and the 
front latch should be released, and you should be able to open the 
door. I'm still assuming that the rear mechanisms are working 
correctly. If the door doesn't spring open itself, door misalignment 
might be jamming it a little bit.  Hold the rod toward the back of 
the car, under tension to release the latch, while simultaneously 
pushing the door outward.  The lower front part of the door is a good 
place to push.  Don't push too hard, about 10 pounds, and don't push 
on the exterior steel.  If this doesn't open the door, get a 
professional.  It's likely the problem is inside the mechanism 
itself, or that the mechanism is jammed on the pin in some screwy 
way.  Either way, don't try to "drill out" the mechanism.  You'll 
probably just wreck the door, which probably still won't open when 
you're done drilling.  Get the professional.

If the door does open, then the lock and latch mechaniam are probably 
okay, and slope or binding in the rods or linkage are probably the 
cause.  See if you can find anything damaged, jammed or unconnected.  
There are too many screwy things that could go wrong to list.

Good luck.  Let me know how it goes.

Rick Gendreau
11472









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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 25
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:05:01 EDT
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: taillights won"t work (was: Breaking it)

In a message dated 8/19/02 8:51:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
chris_at_dml_hawes74.freeserve.co.uk writes:


> After I fitted a reflector the other day in my rear tail light cluster.
> (Kindly offered by a DOC member as my car was always missing one) I cleaned
> both clusters which dramatically increased the brightness but have now
> noticed that my break lights have packed up.
> 
> 

Your electrical edge connectors may no longer be making contact due to age 
and oxidation now that you've (presumably) had them apart and then put them 
back together. Try using a pencil eraser to shine up the metal contacts that 
you can see on the edge of the taillight board, and spray electrical contact 
cleaner on both the board contacts as well as inside the plastic connector 
sockets.  Of course other things could be amiss and you might need new 
boards. (PJ Grady has 'em.)  But I'd start here.

Wayne A. Ernst
vin 11174 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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