From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1174
Date: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 6:43 PM

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There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Lego DeLorean Time Machine
From: Robert Greenhaw <deloreandude_at_dml_juno.com>

2. Re: Plans for the 25th Aniversery of DeLorean
From: "roscsyl" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

3. Re: Wiper control module service procedure
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>

4. Re: DeLorean Renting
From: Robert Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

5. Re: master cylinder
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

6. Re: Plans for the 25th Aniversery of DeLorean
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

7. Re: Wiper control module service procedure (also hazard flasher and buzzer box)
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

8. Re: DeLorean Renting
From: "tmasterlc" <tmasterlc_at_dml_msn.com>

9. Re: Plans for the 25th Aniversery of DeLorean
From: "Ian Foster" <ian_at_dml_netvigator.com>

10. Exhaust manifold gasket replacement
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

11. Re: Electric car
From: Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>

12. Chrono question w/ muffler
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. Re: Plans for the 25th Aniversery of DeLorean
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

14. RE: Exhaust manifold gasket replacement
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_att.net>

15. Torque Spec
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 00:01:52 -0500
From: Robert Greenhaw <deloreandude_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Lego DeLorean Time Machine

Hey Guys!

Check this out: some dude built a Time Machine....
out of Lego Bricks!  Pretty cool interpretation of 
the BTTF DeLorean!

http://lego.bldesign.org/models/?n=9

Has anyone else attempted this?  I tried when I was
younger with the Lego "Time Cruisers" set, but it never
looked right, much less looking like a DeLorean! :O )

Later,
Robert G.




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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:53:55 -0000
From: "roscsyl" <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Plans for the 25th Aniversery of DeLorean

Tommy - other than the fact that you can't legally create a new
serial number, it would probably be prohibitively expensive to
source all of the parts you need to build an entire car.  That and 
the endless debates about how original the end product should be
would take the project out to the 30th anniversary...

Mike  

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "treehouse2000us" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Offically, the DeLorean will be an antique in the year 2006.  I 
> recently wrote about building a totaly new car out of parts.  What 
> would be a better way to honor the man who created the best 
> automobile ever?
> 





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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 22:59:09 -0000
From: "daveswingle2" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Re: Wiper control module service procedure

Another "good thing to know" is that if the wiper control module 
actually fails, you can unplug the two electrical plugs from the box, 
and just plug them together. The wipers will still work normally 
except that the "intermittent/delay" function will not be there. 

Dave S

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "ksgrimsr" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_i...> wrote:

> I had occasion to remove my wiper control module the other day 
(after 
> 150K miles in Oregon rain, the relay contacts were finally too 
> carbonized to make good electrical contact). The service manual 
> instructions for this procedure reads something like "remove 2 
screws 
> securing module." 




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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 19:01:34 -0500
From: Robert Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Renting

Movie car rental varies from 200 to $400/day for collector cars. 
 DeLoreans fall into this catagory.   Make sure you have pick and 
delivery arranged.  Also protected storage.  THROUGHLY Inspect vehicle 
when it returns.  Make sure everything works.   I had the power antenna 
broken on my car and they should not have even used the radio!

BOB

Stian Birkeland wrote:

>Hello all,
>I've been approached by an ad firm that wants to use my DeLorean as the actual BTTF DeLorean to promote the release of the BTTF Trilogy on DVD.



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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:15:32 EDT
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: master cylinder

In a message dated 8/24/02 1:09:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dherv10_at_dml_aol.com 
writes:

<< Jim, & Group. This is a rebuilt master cylinder from Auto Zone listed 
below 
 and may be w/o the reservoir. I can sell brand new ones for $119.00 >>

The Autozone unit does not include the resevoir, but does include new 
resevior seals. The old resevoir just snaps on and is held in place with two 
cotters.
Jim



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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 02:43:49 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Plans for the 25th Aniversery of DeLorean

Although this may sound like a good idea I do not believe anyone has 
the authority to create and issue vin #'s for Deloreans any more. The 
only possible way MIGHT be for a State authority to issue a vin # for 
a car that had it's legal vin # obliterated, they do this in cases of 
cars that were stolen, had the vin # altered, and then recovered. 
Before being returned to the rightful owner the State CAN create a vin 
#. NO ONE INDIVIDUAL can alter or create or issue vin #'s this is a 
Federal crime!
 Last word on JZD is that he is involved in creating a new car anyway.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "treehouse2000us" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Offically, the DeLorean will be an antique in the year 2006.  I 
> recently wrote about building a totaly new car out of parts.

  The new car would be 50501.



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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 02:51:28 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Wiper control module service procedure (also hazard flasher and buzzer box)

The hazard flasher (otherwise known as the 4-way flasher) is also the 
turn signal flasher. In the Delorean the  wiring system is wired in 
such a way as to use the same flasher for both turn signals and 4-ways 
as opposed to most cars which have a separate flasher for the turns 
and 4-ways. The manual does leave many things out, for instance to 
reinstall many things it will say something like reverse the procedure 
for uninstalling! It assumes the person doing the procedures is 
proficient enough to know what they are doing without spelling out 
everything, this is not the best car to learn on for the first time. 
In this case it takes more time to get the duct out of the way then to 
actually get to the module or flasher or door buzzer.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "ksgrimsr" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_i...> wrote:
> Notice: This message contains informative content based on 
first-hand experience rather than speculation and conjecture.
> 
> I had occasion to remove my wiper control module the other day 
> securing module." Although the service manual is correct that the 
> module is secured with 2 screws, the instructions trivialize the 
> procedure and are wholly unhelpful if you actually find you need to 
> remove the module.




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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 05:55:47 -0000
From: "tmasterlc" <tmasterlc_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Renting

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> Hello all,
> I've been approached by an ad firm that wants to use my DeLorean as 
the actual BTTF DeLorean to promote the release of the BTTF Trilogy 
on DVD.
> 
> So - for all of those who have "been there, done that"...
> 
> How much money did you get for renting out your DeLorean? 


Stian (& others considering renting their DeLorean):

After I had "been there, done that"... and loaned my D for a BTTF 
event FOR FREE, I read on the DML that the going rate to lease was 
$2,600. a day.  Of course, you'll have to give them a "quantity" 
discounted rate since it's for 1 1/2 months rather than miss the 
opportunity to put your car to work for you.  After all, at that 
price they could afford to buy almost 6 cars to keep or throw away 
when they're done with 'em!  I'd settle for $100 a day because it's 
more than the car makes in the garage right now!

Here in the U.S. the BTTF DVD Trilogy will be released on December 
17, 2002 and if we get a cross-promotion opportunity with our local 
video rental chain, I'll post the info so "the owners" can negotiate 
a fair rental fee nationwide if they're interested

Cheryl Wester
St. Peters, MO






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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:50:22 +0800
From: "Ian Foster" <ian_at_dml_netvigator.com>
Subject: Re: Plans for the 25th Aniversery of DeLorean

Hi Tommy,

Don't waste your time and $$$ building a new DeLorean ... get DMC Houston to
build (refurbish) you a 25th Anniversary car - better than new!!!

Cheers,          IAN (HongKong)
***************************

----- Original Message -----
From: "treehouse2000us" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: [DML] Plans for the 25th Aniversery of DeLorean
> Offically, the DeLorean will be an antique in the year 2006.  I
> recently wrote about building a totaly new car out of parts.



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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:09:02 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Exhaust manifold gasket replacement

Hi All,

Seeing as Knut has provided a procedure on a task he has just completed, 
I thought I'd add one of mine. No doubt this will generate opinions on 
what I did wrong, suggestions for improvements, or things I've forgotten 
to mention. I hope this makes the tech section at DMCnews because I 
could have used an article like it. It's an expensive job in labour but 
where the parts are really inexpensive, so if you have the gumption 
(winks at Dave S), you might like to tackle this task.

I've read volumes on the DML regarding removing the manifold studs, but 
nothing about actually getting to them in the first place. Over the past 
couple of weekends, in lovely weather, I've been flat on my back under 
the back of my car learning how the exhaust comes apart so I could fix 
that "beetling" sound. If someone had told me what order to take things 
off it'd have been a lot of help. So here goes. (criticisms welcome!)

Firstly a general tip. When undoing 20-year-siezed rusty 
nuts/studs/bolts, try to apply only torque, that is rotation, and 
minimal sideways stresses on what you're undoing. Often this means 
holding the ratchet with both hands. A bit of penetrating oil is 
helpful, as is a wire brush to remove excess rust first. Another tip a 
friend gave me which I've never seen on the DML is when a nut is 
turning, but being very stubborn, try turning it back half a turn now 
and again.

Secondly: Do not attempt this job without a full compliment of tools - 
especially an extensive quality socket set with a good selection of 
extension bars.

Thirdly: Bits you'll need.

Manifold Gaskets
Manifold Studs (x12)
M7 nuts (x13) and washers (x12) (don't expect to be able to buy these 
easily if not using a DeLorean (or Renault or Volvo) facility.
Manifold-to-crossover gaskets (x2)
Catalyst-to-crossover gasket (x1)
Manifold and catalyst M10 mounting studs (x8)
M10 shake-resistant nuts (NOT nylocks) (x8)
U-bracket for cat-to-back-box

Note: If you do as I did and buy the studs from Volvo, you may find the 
studs are symetrical, unlike the OEM ones, which are longer on the 
outside end. This is fine except for one of them - the one that needs to 
have an extra nut to hold the starter heatshield - this is the 13th nut :-)

1) The first step is NOT to remove the back-box completely. Although 
this is possible on some cars apparently, it sure as hell wasn't on 
mine. However, you can start the removal procedure by taking off the two 
lower mounting brackets - un-bolt them from the engine. It's a 5-minute 
job to remove them and then the heat shield (asbestos remember - be 
careful). Once under the car it's obvious how they come off, and the 
rubber bushes just pull off. They can stay mounted to the brackets. The 
upper rubber bush should also be removed. This is on the pass side and 
accessible through the top of the engine compartment. Two M6 bolts 
secure this and it's a simple matter to pop it off. Also remove the 
U-clamp securing the catalytic converter to the back box. I broke mine 
doing this, so put this on the list of parts required before you start. 
The back box now hangs on the cat and the upper mounting bar, but in my 
case I did not have enough play to be able to slide the back box out of 
the cat.

2) Now the fun starts. Get under the car and locate where the exhaust 
manifolds attach to the rear crossover pipe. There are two studs on each 
side, both M10 with 17mm nuts. Both nuts are easy to get to on the right 
manifold, and the lower one on the left. The upper left nut is a pig. I 
found I could get to it with my 1/2" drive ratchet and regular socket 
from the top of the engine, going down next to the ballast resistors, 
and had just enough play to get one click on the ratchet! This is the 
only stud I broke due to not being able to hold it squarely. No matter, 
it's relatively easy to drill out, and I have an M10 tap, and soon made 
a new stud out of a fresh M10 bolt I had in the drawer. (when I took off 
the right manifold I soon saw why it broke - it's almost as if it was 
designed to! It's tapered at the point of greatest stress - I _assume_ 
through a poor manufacturing process)

3) Now the rear crossover pipe is free from the manifolds. This allows 
the cat to move and you should now be able to free the back box.

4) The cat is mounted to the rear crossover pipe with four M10 studs. 
Three of the nuts are easy to remove (I used my telescopic 45 degree 
wheel wrench to start them moving though). The fourth can be acessed 
only because the rear pipe is free. You should have enough play to be 
able to get to the fourth nut.

5) You can now remove the cat. The rear crossover pipe is free, but I 
couldn't work out how to actually remove it. I didn't need to, so I 
can't comment - it's just hanging there now waiting to be reattached! On 
taking mine off, all four studs were permanently siezed in the cat. If 
you are going to put the cat back, it's probably a good idea to remove 
the studs and replace them. I'm replacing the cat with Ed Uding's bypass 
pipe, so this wasn't something I did.

6) The cat heat shield can be taken off now by undoing two 10mm nuts. 
Asbestos again.

7) You can now tackle the left hand manifold. The nuts are 11mm and you 
should be able to remove all of them with various combinations of a 1/4" 
drive, a 3/8" drive and extension bars. Check your socket set has 11mm 
sockets in both 1/4 and 3/8 ! Some studs may well come out with the nuts 
- remember this as you're undoing them.

8) If the manifold doesn't fall off and hit you in the forhead, a couple 
of taps with a hammer will free it.

9) Stud removal. I have read a lot on this subject, but some advice from 
another (very experienced)  friend seemed to contradict one important 
suggestion: Heating the studs. Do NOT take them to cherry-red because 
this affects the aluminium of the heads, and makes it brittle - doing 
this often results in the threads coming out with the studs, and 
re-tapping it makes it weaker still. I got all mine out with no problems 
using a combination of a blow-torch to heat the studs up, though not to 
red hot, then immediately liberally spraying it with freezer spray*. 
Then Mole grips (Vice grips) and my smallest super-wrench** got them out 
easily. I did not use any penetrating oil - take this as experience and 
not advice.

10) The right hand manifold is a bit trickier. You have to remove the 
starter motor, though not the alternator. The starter is held on with 
three 13mm M8 bolts which thread through the bell housing from the front 
of the car. They're relatively easy to remove. The starter can them be 
removed. It may require a lot of wiggling, and note that it is located 
by a roll-pin on the outermost mount. This may fall out when the starter 
comes out. Don't lose it, and remember to put it back (mine stayed put 
though - thanks to Walt for the advice). If you need an oil-change, now 
might be a great time, because the starter would come out a LOT easier 
without the oil filter in the way!

11) The heat stove has to be removed, which means removing the cold-air 
intake pipe. So too does the starter heatshield This is held on by an M7 
bolt and a spacer mounted into one of the unused manifold ports 
(rearmost), and an additional nut on one of the manifold studs (foremost).

12) With these removed you can now remove the right manifold and studs. 
The rearmost upper nut is a bit obscured by the alternator, I used a 
universal joint on a 3/8" extension.

13) Before replacing the manifold, clean up the mounting surfaces of 
both the engne and the manifold with some fine emery paper. It's also a 
good idea (and it looks nice) to clean off the rust off the manifld and 
paint with heat resistant paint. I bought a can of black exhaust 
manifold paint - nuff said!

14) Reassemble with lots of copper-grease. I found a tube of anti-sieze 
compound that "prevents seizure at up to 1100 degrees celcius". Seemed 
like good stuff to me. (made in Germany :-)

15) Reassemble in the reverse order.

* Freezer spray is an aerosol sold for use in the electronics industry. 
It's used to keep components cold which would otherwise overheat in 
order to troubleshoot a circuit. It's like a "backwards blow-torch" and 
cools things down very very fast.

** Bought a set of four of these at a car show ages ago. They have a 
kind of knurled tip and a sprung-loaded claw that reaches over the top. 
It's used for undoing rounded bolts, or pipes or..... manifold studs!

I have some photos waiting to go on the website.

Best Wishes

Martin
#1458
DOC UK






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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:41:03 -0500
From: Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Electric car

I was waiting for someone to speak up on this issue but no one has yet gotten to the
heart of the matter.

This self-recharging electric Delorean is a variation of the Permanent-Magnet
"perpetual-motion" machine that has been floating around for years.  It purportedly has
an efficiency of greater than 100%, which is why it can move a heavy car yet charge it's
own batteries at the same time.

This seems to fly in the face of logic, but relativity was scoffed for many years.  Are
photovoltaics "free" electricity?  Perhaps not, but they were certainly used long before
Einstein won the Nobel prize for explaining HOW they work.

So, I am skeptical of these magic motors since an explanation of the physics simply
isn't there, but that doesn't mean it CAN'T work.  Personally I think you can get
farther with cold fusion (insert your own Mr. Fusion joke here) but this motor design
simply will not go away.

One of the proponents of this motor has claimed to have recorded these impossible
efficiencies and published the design he used.  A friend of mine has taken the design
and is attempting to reproduce the results, so we will be able to evaluate first-hand
the validity of such a claim.

If anyone is still curious, there are many sites dedicated to both promoting and
debunking these motor/generators:

    http://www.freeelectricity.homestead.com/

    http://www.nmsr.org/denislee.htm

    http://www.phact.org/e/dennis.html

Since there is no theory or science to back up these claims, a verified and reproducible
demonstration is really needed.  Until then, I hope we can drop this subject.


Gus Schlachter
Austin, TX
VIN 4695


kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

> I have been talking to the guys on the electric car that you all have been
> talking about and asked him to respond to some of your e-mails
> I think you may enjoy the response and they seem to be real open and are fun
> to talk to.




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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:21:52 -0000
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Chrono question w/ muffler

At what VIN did they change the muffler tips?  Also, were there ever 
any Deloreans made in the 13XXX VIN range?

Thanks
Erik




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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:23:33 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Plans for the 25th Aniversery of DeLorean

Tommy,

Better yet, have DMCH build (refurbish) a Delorean with a brand new
Pearce Design Components Stainless Steel Frame and you can have a
nearly complete rust-free Delorean that will be around for the 50th
Anniversary and more.  Or order a SS frame and do it yourself. I did.

Later,
Rich W.
 

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Ian Foster" <ian_at_dml_n...> wrote:
> Hi Tommy,
> 
> Don't waste your time and $$$ building a new DeLorean ... get DMC 
Houston to
> build (refurbish) you a 25th Anniversary car - better than new!!!
> 
> Cheers,          IAN (HongKong)
> ***************************
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "treehouse2000us" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_y...>
> Subject: [DML] Plans for the 25th Aniversery of DeLorean
> > Offically, the DeLorean will be an antique in the year 2006.  I
> > recently wrote about building a totaly new car out of parts.




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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:34:58 -0500
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: RE: Exhaust manifold gasket replacement

Martin,
Great article.  I like the fact that it is based on experience rather than
theory

You referred to a cat converter bypass pipe.
We call those a Cat test pipe.
Is Ed Uding selling these?  I would be interested in obtaining a test pipe
for Off-Road use only.  I don't want to break any US laws.

Scott Mueller
002981
DOA 5031



-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Gutkowski [mailto:webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk]
Subject: [DML] Exhaust manifold gasket replacement

Massive snip by Scott

 I'm replacing the cat with Ed Uding's bypass
pipe, so this wasn't something I did.

I have some photos waiting to go on the website.

Best Wishes

Martin
#1458
DOC UK



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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:06:54 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Torque Spec

I am having trouble finding the correct torque spec for the nut that 
holds on the steering wheel. I would appreciate anyone who could 
provide it and some documentation on where they found it. I have not 
been able to find it in any of the official manuals. This is not an 
ordinary torque as it must set the steering wheel on the tapered 
splines of the steering shaft.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757




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