From: <>
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Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1191
Date: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 3:39 AM

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There are 8 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: WTB: Interior carpet for early black.
From: "content22207" <>

2. Re: cold start problem
From: "" <>

3. What harm does an perpetual motion Delorean hoax do? Plenty.
From: "Stragand, Dave" <>

4. Rear Wheel Bearings (was "What harm does . . .")
From: Mike Substelny <>

5. fuel distributor- no fuel from #1 and #4 ports???
From: "vin2450" <>

6. DMC-12's worth
From: "James La Londe" <>

7. Ypsilanti, Michigan Delorean Owner
From: "James La Londe" <>

8. question on pulling an engine, HELP!
From: Vin 5386 <>

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 03:32:55 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Re: WTB: Interior carpet for early black.

Is your A/C evaporator box drain tube stopped up, pinched, etc? If so,
correct that problem BEFORE replacing the carpet (you'll just end up
ruining your new pieces).

My drain tube was pinched at the factory. Leaked water for 20 years
(spoke to original owner). Now my passenger pieces are rotten. Have
corrected -- will replace pieces as restoration budget allows.

Bill Robertson

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> I took the seats out of 1860 to replace the seat covers.  The bottom
and side rug on the passenger side is in sad shape.  
> Does anyone have any decent used ones they want to sell?


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:25:59 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
From: "" <>
Subject: Re: cold start problem

This sounds just like what I had going on with mine when I got it a few
years ago.  This may be caused by what is called the control pressure
regulator. It sits on the driver side of the engine, bolted on the side, and
has a few different hoses running to it.  It controls the flow of the fuel
in a warm/cold scenario.  Fuse 7 being blown out is an indicator of this. 
Mine actually melted all the way through the fuse panel!  There is a test to
see if the regulator is bad, but I can't remember what it is..maybe one of
the listers can help on that one?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 3
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:39:02 -0400
From: "Stragand, Dave" <>
Subject: What harm does an perpetual motion Delorean hoax do? Plenty.

[MODERATOR NOTE: I have already rejected a large number of posts speculating about Tilley's "black box" because they are not relevant to the DML's mission.  The subject of this post, however, is relevant.  Note that I *will* reject posts that simply agree with Dave Stragand's opinion without adding anything new.   - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of the week]

What harm does it do to the DMC?

1) Damage to JZD's rep:  I have been following the discussions on, and found many people who believe that -John DeLorean- is also part of this scam.

2) Another incorrect claim of DMC unreliability: There are many quotes saying how common it is for rear wheel bearings to go out as well, which I've never heard anyone mention on this list.  Has anyone ever had a rear wheel bearing suddenly blow out?  They quoted a supposed "other DeLorean owner" who said it's an "extremely common occurance" for the DMC.

3) The fleecing of the public: While Tilley's website claims 10,000+ people were in attendance, eyewitnesses say it was only around 50 to 60 people.  Those people, as you see below, are basically middle-class folks who are being swindled by these claims of free energy and perpetual motion cars.  Tilley also apparently has a history of pulling these same scams in the past.

4) Yet another "joke" at car shows:  If enough people lose enough money, there are going to be serious repercussions to the DMC in the automotive collecting world.  Tired enough yet of cocaine and flux capacitor jokes?  Just wait until you start getting "free energy" wisecracks.

Not to sound conceited nor condescending here, but if you can't understand the physics behind how ludicrous this guy's claims are, trust those of us that do!!!  We have all been happy to explain why you can't get more energy out of a device than you put in -- it's just not possible.  However, if you still believe, you are being seduced, deceived, and misled.

A good article was posted by Tim Holman:

"First, a little background. Tilley's "miracle" electric vehicle has been getting a lot of media coverage here in Nashville over the past week, and it's been a topic of conversation at work. One of my colleagues and I decided to check it out for ourselves, out of pure curiousity.

"This is not the first time Mr. Tilley has been in the Nashville news. About a year and a half ago he got some publicity by claiming that he and another inventor had created a "free energy" machine, a la Tom Bearden, Dennis Lee, and Joe Newman. When people tried to follow up on his claims, he dropped out of sight. Now he had resurfaced with a claim that he was using this machine to power an electric car. What really made it interesting was that Bobby Allison was apparently promoting Tilley's claims, both on his own web site (, and by driving the car at the Superspeedway.

"Being firm believers in the second law of thermodynamics, my co-workers and I expected one of three things to happen:

"(1) Tilley would attempt to hide an internal combustion engine somewhere in the Delorean, and prevent people from examining it up close (unlikely, as people would hear the engine running). He might also hide extra batteries to extend the running time.

"(2) The car would make very frequent pit stops in a screened area (so as to prevent the "secret" from being stolen, of course), during which the batteries would miraculously recharge themselves.

"(3) The car would suffer an unfortunate "breakdown" well before the distance limit imposed by the maximum energy storage of the twelve lead-acid batteries in his vehicle.

"As it turned out, #3 was the winner. In the middle of the 13th lap, the announcer suddenly announced that the vehicle had a bad rear wheel bearing. It looked to me as if the batteries were quickly reaching the end of their charge, as the car was running very slowly on that last lap. In the 12th lap, the car had zipped by fairly quickly, about 60 mph on the track, with no visible problems. Amazing how quickly a wheel bearing will go out on you, and how some people can diagnose it while the car is still moving. :-)

"Once the car had coasted into the pit, I left. I knew the demo was over, although some people in the crowd didn't (and apparently stuck around for hours afterwards!).

"A few comments: my co-worker arrived earlier than me and got to see the car up close before the demo. According to him, two men with guns were standing guard and preventing anyone from looking UNDER the car. He took that as a sign that either extra batteries or an internal combustion engine must be visible from the underside.

"I was in the stands with a crowd of about 50 to 60 people, maximum. Judging from the conversations around me, many of them were either investors or True Believers. I heard the usual claptrap about conspiracies, death threats by oil companies, etc., that get tossed around by the proponents of these scams.

"What troubled me, of course, is that many of the investors looked like normal middle class folks, using their own savings and hoping to cash in on a world-shaking invention. They, and people like them, were the true targets of Mr. Tilley's exhibition.

"As for Bobby Allison, he was there at the beginning and drove the first couple of laps, then apparently left. For his own sake, I hope he distances himself from Mr. Tilley as quickly as possible.

"Finally, for those who are interested, I made a Quicktime movie of the car making the final lap (out of the pit, around part of the track, and back into the pit). You can see for yourself how slowly the car was going before the "breakdown".


VIN #5927


Message: 4
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 14:43:03 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <>
Subject: Rear Wheel Bearings (was "What harm does . . .")

Dave Stragand wrote:

> <SNIP>
> 2) Another incorrect claim of DMC unreliability: There are many quotes saying how common it is for rear wheel bearings to go out as well, which I've never heard anyone mention on this list.  Has anyone ever had a rear wheel bearing suddenly blow out?  They quoted a supposed "other DeLorean owner" who said it's an "extremely common occurance" for the DMC.

For the record, both of my rear wheel bearing failed just a few months after I got my DeLorean.  The first one failed while I was driving on the highway, which caused the back end to start wobbling.  After an hour of wobbling at highway speed the second bearing failed, and the wobble became very dangerous.

I agree that it is very rare, but rear wheel bearing failures are possible.

If I ever experience another rear wheel bearing failure I will stop driving the car ASAP.  You really need a hydraulic press to change the bearings.  Between the harrowing drive and the repair, I don't want to go through that again!

- Mike Substelny
VIN 01280


Message: 5
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 22:25:11 -0000
From: "vin2450" <>
Subject: fuel distributor- no fuel from #1 and #4 ports???

Are there any idea's or thoughts on what my cause this?  the car is 
an 1981 with an automatic tranny. 

Here is my problem, the car was stored for the past ten years full of 
fuel.  What a mess to clean, the tank even had stuff growing in it.  
Anyways I removed the fuel tank and had it professionaly cleaned,  
the lines inside were changed as well as the pump, the pump 
boot,bracket and cover(all purchased threw specialtauto).  Then I 
changed the accumalator and fuel filter.  I tried to start the car 
but had no power at the fuel pump, a little more testing found a bad 
fuel pump relay, so it was replaced. Now I had fuel but the car would 
not start. I found out the hard way the fuel distributor plunger was 
siezed, so I had a spare one that was supplied with the car when I 
bought it.  The car started but had to much fuel pressure, more 
testing found that the pressure regulator was no good so it was 
replaced.  Now the car starts but it has a noticable miss to it, I 
checked compression and it checks out fine across the board.  Some 
more testing found that #1 and #4cyl was not getting fuel from the 
distributor.  I double checked the fuel distributor part #'s and 
found that the original one was 0 438 100 109 and the one that I 
replaced it with is 0 438 100 114.  They hook up the same, but for 
some reson #1 and #4 are dry.  I did find out that part # 0 438 100 
114 fits an early 4cyl turbo model and that #1 and #4 are blocked 
with plugs in this aplication,  if this is the case can anyone tell 
me if there is a fix for this without opening the distributor?  Any 
help in this matter would be great.  Thanks for you info 

stephane vin2450 


Message: 6
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 18:55:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: "James La Londe" <>
Subject: DMC-12's worth

 Let me start off by saying that I sacrifice a lot for my Delorean, monetarily that is to say. I can afford her, but because of her I can't afford some other pleasure of life (pleasures other than a DeLorean, you say?)

That said; What is my DeLorean worth? What is the best way to have it appraised? A conventional appraiser would be vastly un-equiped to estimate such a car as a DMC-12... I would think.Now of course this isn't for any legal purposes, I'm just curious about what i might get if a put on the Delorean market as is. If someone(s) could contact me on or off list about it, I'd appreciate it!!!

Ok... my carmid '81, black manual, hood lines and flap, fender antenae. wide black reproduction side stripes, and dark wheels.Things I've done:new clutch, radiator, coolant hoses, thermo-time switch, fuel pump, stainless brake pistons and new brakes all around, brake master cylinder, inner weather strips, DMC floor mats, TankZilla, Just had a paint job to all things not stainless.  Recent tune-up and oil change (actually that's this weekend... but still)Gremlins, and other evil-badies:NO outer weather strips, (doesn't leak), crack in dash (side of glove box up to the wideshield), missing storage compartment door (behind driver seat), Driver side lock does not effect passenger side lock (but it does work vice versa), passenger window works but clunks alot.She's as clean as clean can be for a daily driver. the engine does get dusty, but runs fine other than a slightly high idle interior (other then mentioned) is about a 7 (from 1 to 10) exterior and Stainless are a 9.5 (stainless is very very near flawless) underbody is a 8, a daily driver so it's not perfectly clean but i am sure to clean the frame and such every wash.  Ok, now assume you've already looked over the car and verified all the above statements to be accurate. (and assume that if 'it' isn't mentioned, then 'it' works/looks just fine)What would you pay for if you were looking for a DeLorean?? (I don't know, maybe a just need a pep talk or something.. but damnit she is just a big ol' black hole for money) I would much appreciate anyone's 2 cents. (or anyone's 5 grand {to dump into the D of course}.Checks can be made payable to...) like i said on or off list is cool!!!!!

-James La Londe
1981 Delorean DMC-12 vin#001697 LicPlate DMC XII1998
Kawasaki Vulcan 8001992
Ford Probe GT--- On Sun 09/08

[Irrelevant quote snipped by moderator]


Message: 7
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 18:59:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: "James La Londe" <>
Subject: Ypsilanti, Michigan Delorean Owner

 I went to the Victory Lane oil change/car wash on Huron River and Rawsonville Rd. The guy there called the Napa store over on Sumpter to get an oil filter for my car, and they said the only reason they it was because they had stocked a few for another local DeLorean owner. As it turned it out, it didn't fit... but that's another story (some purflux filters are on the way now) Are you out there in DML-Land, Ypsi-Belleville DeLorean Owner?? contact me off list or even give me call if you feel brave (734) 697 0968!!!!!!-James La Londe1981 Delorean DMC-12 vin#001697 LicPlate DMC XII1998 Kawasaki Vulcan 8001992 Ford Probe GT

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 8
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 16:02:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vin 5386 <>
Subject: question on pulling an engine, HELP!

Simple question for everyone expierenced in pulling an
engine, humor me please. I have unbolted my engine
from the trans  this includes all 4 engine to trans
mounting bolts and the 3 bolts for the starter. all
hoses are discnnected. but what I'm running into is
that I seem to be hanging up. the engine wont pull
free from the trans body. can this be related to the
clutch and throw off bearing? I think I missed a step
in here. can anyone help? the engine is loose it's
about an inch or less away from the trans at this


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