From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1195
Date: Friday, September 13, 2002 6:37 AM

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There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Speedometer cable question
From: "David Cox" <dmcox_at_dml_tfb.com>

2. Re: Overheating/rising temp since A/C Charge
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. Idle/tune-up/vacuum/oil BING!!
From: "James La Londe" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>

4. RE: Head assemblies
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_attbi.com>

5. RE: Head assemblies
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_attbi.com>

6. RE: Head assemblies
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_attbi.com>

7. RE: Re: Delorean Windshield anyone have a spare
From: "Chris Parnham" <cp_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

8. Automatic Trensmission Computer Details
From: Jamie Hamlin <jhamlin_at_dml_avart.net>

9. Re: Head assemblies
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

10. Re: Idle/tune-up/vacuum/oil BING!!
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

11. Re: Automatic Trensmission Computer Details
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

12. Re: Idle/tune-up/vacuum/oil BING!!
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:27:28 -0700
From: "David Cox" <dmcox_at_dml_tfb.com>
Subject: Re: Speedometer cable question

David Teitelbaum wrote:
>The first place to start is to pull off the front left wheel and check
>the plastic drive disc that is captured between the rim and the hub.
>Make sure it won't slip and the square hole inside isn't rounded out
>causing the square drive cable in the center of the hub to slip.

Definitely check the plastic drive disc!  While doing some checking on my
car, I pulled this off and inspected it to make sure that hole hadn't become
enlarged.  There appeared to be some dirt on the side of the disc and I
wiped it clean before replacing it.  The speedometer (appeared) to be
working fine immediately afterwards, but I soon started to notice that it
would, on occasion, drop to zero, or bounce about wildly.  On other
vehicles, this behavior has been caused by a broken cable, so that was what
I immediately suspected.  I went back through the archives, but I must have
missed references to the drive disc, because I didn't suspect it at all.  I
_thought_ that it was held in place by the wheel, but that does not appear
to be the case.  I finally was able to test the entire cable assembly by
grasping the end of the lower cable in the jaws of a driver and spinning it,
verifying that the speedo moved when I did so.  I ended up placing a small
amount of trim adhesive on the rim of the drive disc and my speedo has
worked flawlessly ever since.

I repeat, I may have missed it, but checking the plastic drive disc, other
than to check the center hole, did not jump out as a possible cause when I
checked the archives.  It should be added to the list of possible speedo
problems areas.

Dave
vin 16367




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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 04:32:58 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Overheating/rising temp since A/C Charge

Bleed all the air out of the cooling system
Make sure both fans are running
Make sure they PULL air into the radiater front to back
Make sure the fans are tightly attached to the fan motor shafts
Replace the otterstadt switch and seal
Install a 40 amp circuit breaker for the cooling fans
Use a Fanzilla or similar device (not a wire bypass or fan fail relay)
Inspect the radiater fins for leaves or debris blocking the radiater
If you do all of these things it should correct the problem.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "James La Londe" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> I Just got my A/C charged with R12, and the mechanic said the was 
overheating when they tested the AC.. I chalked it up to the fact that 
they tested it without driving the car... and it would've overheating 
just sitting there for 30 minutes anyways (with or without AC)
> 
> But that was only partially true. On the freeway or consistantly 
driving 35 + mph the temp is fine and AC is cold. When in stop and go 
traffic though, or (of course) when at a stand still, the water temp 
rises steadily to the red zone. And then hovers there for a bit, and 
then seemed to drop drastically back to slightly under normal. 
Sometimes the water temp will stay at normal even in stop-and-go 
traffic, and other times it will do as i described above. And if the 
temp is high and I start going faster for some distance doesn't 
immediatly effect the water temp (as it has in the past when the temp 
rose is trafic.. it used to drop back to normal once the fans kicked 
on, or when i started moving again).
> 
> May sound stupid, but is possible to have reversed the polarity on 
the fans? Should the fans be blowing through the radiator or sucking 
in from the radiator (pulling more air through? thanks for any 
input!!!!!!!!
> 
> -James La Londe
> 1981 Delorean DMC-12 vin#001697
> LicPlate DMC XII
> 1998 Kawasaki Vulcan 800
> 1992 Ford Probe GT




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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 01:02:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: "James La Londe" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: Idle/tune-up/vacuum/oil BING!!

I need a new idle spd microswitch... yeah I gotta spend 75 bucks on a tinyelectronic piece BUT i know what the problem is. I also adjusted the throttle linkage. A problem i noted while the throttle cover was off.. when the gas is depressed all the way the thrttle still didn't twist all the way. After adjusting the best I can manage is JUST before actuating the full-throttle switch.. otherwise I bring the idle back up. Is there supposed to be something plugged into the plug next to where the idle spd micro plugs in (plug plug plug). I'm doing a tune up sometime this week. I asked Rob Grady, and as always he was very helpful.. BUT in this case not enough so. Damn that distributor... HELP! Any tips... ideas on getting that con-sarn thing out of it's little nook at the very back of the engine? it is safe to remove the fuel distributor w/o messing up some fine adjustment and w/o having gas all over the engine?  Always, what's the best way to start finding any vacuum leaks..

I mean it's not like I can see the air leaking out :P Where should I start? It seems to idle ok with the microswitch hard-wired, so i doubt vacuum problems... but i'd like to give her a once-over anyways. I went to snug the bass bolt on the intake closest to the rear of the veh, an with literaly no torque i broke the head off... think it's safe still?

Ok i'l blind, some point me toward the idle adjust screw. Between the fuel distributor and the intake right? I can't see it!!! Picture anyone? Oil, Coolant, fuel, wiper fluid... what other fluids are there.. (manual tranny).. trying to identify this greenish oily stuff. doesn't seems like oil or antifreeze or a mixture thereof... road-nasty?? Every time i hit a bump there is a "bing" (like a service bell) from the passenger front wheel? Any ideas? A little gremlin hitting the spring with a ballpeen hammer was my guess... but he must keep hiding. Michigan roads suck! ahhhh... HELP!! thank you thank you thank you THANK YOU!! i don't know how some of you guy(and girls) find time to answer all of the less-experienced people's questions... but I think I speak for all the DeLorean novices when i say THANKS!!!!!!!!!!

-James La Londe
1981 Delorean DMC-12 vin#001697 LicPlate DMC XII
1998 Kawasaki Vulcan 800
1992 Ford Probe GT



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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:25:24 -0700
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_attbi.com>
Subject: RE: Head assemblies

Can't mag.  aluminum is non magnetic.  But you can pressure test.

Darkstar

-----Original Message-----
From: id [mailto:ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com]
Sent: September 11, 2002 1:00 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Head assemblies


> also have the heads magnifluxed (i think thats the correct
> spelling and name). this process will find out if they have
> small cracks in them before you have them resurfaced so they
> wont leak. i had a 300 in line ford 6 cyl head magnifluxed and
> resurfaced for $75 10 years ago so i think it should be around
> $150 a head now for these two processes.
>
> mark

[moderator snip]



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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:27:17 -0700
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_attbi.com>
Subject: RE: Head assemblies

i think you can go up to .0025" but i may be wrong, i havent machined heads
in a long while

Darkstar

-----Original Message-----
From: MPolzin_at_dml_sen.com [mailto:MPolzin_at_dml_sen.com]
Sent: September 11, 2002 2:03 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Head assemblies


> I will definitely be looking into this process as well as having
> them planed flat. I guess I was just being overly cautious thinking
> of just replacing them, but this isn't anything new, and certainly
> for the price I should give it a try.
>
> Is anyone aware of the maximum amount (in microns) that you can
> shave off these things before you are going to run into problems?
> I'm not sure how badly they are warped, so that might be the only issue.
>
> Has anyone ever warped the block due to overheating? I'm wondering if
> I need to check that too.
>
> Mike Polzin
> VIN #4761

[moderator snip]



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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:45:16 -0700
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_attbi.com>
Subject: RE: Head assemblies

In the past i have used MLS head gaskets to make up the difference on OHC
engines, tho i have never machined a PRV-6 head tho, you just have to be
careful about finish quality it has to be really smooth (cant find actual
spec in my book..).  If you dont make up the difference you will get retared
timing.  shims should be avalible.  as for warped heads a good way to check
ids put the head on the table and put the cam in the head.  if it turns
freely the head is't warped. if it is difficult to turn than the head must
be straightened.  and to correct my previous post the total machining of
head and block shouldn't excede .020".

darkstar

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Swingle [mailto:dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com]
Sent: September 11, 2002 5:12 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Head assemblies


> Minor problem here. It's kind of difficult to magnaflux an
> aluminum head. It's not magnetic.
>
> Also - you are NOT supposed to grind heads on the PRV, if you
> do more than microscopically the front end plate will no longer
> fit. (This plate covers the whole front(belt end) of the engine,
> including the heads.) If the heads are much shorter than as-designed
> you'll have a problem.
>
> This is explained in the technical manual as well (I believe, it's
> been a long time since I re-read it!).
>
> Dave Swingle

[moderator snip]



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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:41:00 +0100
From: "Chris Parnham" <cp_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Re: Delorean Windshield anyone have a spare

Martin,

I think you'll find that a few years ago, Dave had a batch of 10 "custom
windscreens" made, as at that time it was difficult to find old stock and
shipping from America is very difficult and expensive. It looks as though
the manufacturer "ran off" a few extra's  for himself while he was at it!
I'm pretty sure Dave would not be interested in shipping one across the
Atlantic! Too much hassle, and any way,  they are UK stock!

Chris P DOC UK


-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Gutkowski [mailto:webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk]
Sent: 12 September 2002 00:10
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Delorean Windshield anyone have a spare


Hi Jan

That's really interesting - ( I did say apparently :-) There must be a car
that has been
in relatively recent production with the same windscreen. Here's the story:

When we brought #1458 and #2727 over last year (in fact we legally became
the cars'
owners on September 10th when payment was cleared through HSBC Bank in New
York...) we
knew #2727 would need a new windscreen

As always, I approached Dave Howarth, and he had (and has) a stock of
windscreens. He
gave me two prices: one for a DMC Branded windscreen and one for an OEM
windscreen.





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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:42:23 -0400
From: Jamie Hamlin <jhamlin_at_dml_avart.net>
Subject: Automatic Trensmission Computer Details

Hello all, I was wondering if anyone has more details on changing the
capacitors
in the auto. transmission governor computer. or how I could get a hold
of
Mark Hershey to see if I could get more details.
Please e-mail me at jhamlin_at_dml_avart.net
Thanks
Jamie Hamlin
Miami Fl.
Vin# 002606
GIGWATT




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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:13:55 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Head assemblies

Hi Dave

It's also true that milling the heads (not grinding) increases the 
compression, but from what little I know, the "warping" _is_ at a 
microscopic level - we're talking a couple of micros here (a micron is a 
millionth of a metre) - a human hair is roughly 60-70 microns in 
diameter. My old BX's head gasket went and the Diesel Centre had the 
head machined before replacing the gasket, saying "if we didn't do this, 
the gasket would go again within 3000 miles". I've seen this prediction 
come true on two other identical engines. It's a known problem on that 
engine that the head warps between 120 and 150,000 miles. Mine's done 
30,000 miles since the repair and is still going strong.  A lot of it's 
down to just making sure the surface is perfectly clean to get a good seal.

#2727's heads were machined and replaced with new gaskets and head 
bolts. It's true you can only have then skimmed a small number of times 
because eventually they wouldn't fit, but the moral is not to let the 
engine overheat in the first place I guess...

Knowing the respect the Diesel Centre have for their machine shop (they 
send work there regularly), I'm certain if the head was warped so much 
that skimming it would result in it not fitting, the shop would say so 
(maybe being warped that much would probably result in cracking???). 
#2727's engine was in quite a state and the shop also replaced 4 inlet 
valves as well as skimming the heads. It's now sweet.

This is what they looked like when they came back (if you haven't seen it).

http://www.delorean.co.uk/pictures/DCP02509.jpg

It's worth noting that our mechanic was originally Renault trained, and 
ended up working from his Reanult manuals instead of the DeLorean one 
because they described different procedures for the same tasks (eg 
replacing the heads one at a time).

Cost-wise, I think the work on the heads was 300 or so (<$500)

Martin
#1458

Dave Swingle wrote:

>Also - you are NOT supposed to grind heads on the PRV, if you do more 
>than microscopically the front end plate will no longer fit. (This 
>plate covers the whole front(belt end) of the engine, including the 
>heads.) If the heads are much shorter than as-designed you'll have a 
>problem. 
>





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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:06:24 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Idle/tune-up/vacuum/oil BING!!

You asked for a lot of information. Here are some asnwers for you.
Check the linkage at the gas pedal, if bent it prevents you from 
opening the throttle plates all the way (or maybe the carpet or floor 
mat is in the way). The micro you hit at WOT (Wide Open Throtle) tells 
the lambda to run "flat out". The extra plug by the Lambda micro is 
for the kick-down switch for the automatic transmission (omitted for 
the 5-speed). DON'T TOUCH THE IDLE SCREW THAT TOUCHES THE IDLE MICRO! 
Unless someone f-cked with it, LEAVE IT ALONE! Just make sure that at 
idle it trips the micro without beating it up. It is not an idle speed 
it only tells the idle system to run. You CAN replace the distributer 
cap, rotor, and ignition wires without disassembling the motor but it 
is much easier if you remove the fuel mixture unit and intake 
manifold. As long as you are digging in that deep you should replace 
all the seals and hoses and water pump. Rob Grady will tell you you 
need his Water Pump Master Kit. If all your parts are origional you 
really do need it. You should also replace all the hoses and belts and 
idler bearings too. The best way to find vacuum leaks is to disconnect 
the vacuum lines and see if the motor runs better unless you have a 
vacuum tester so you can test things individually. A hissing mode 
switch is a vacuum leak. Just snug up all three brass screws and leave 
them alone. The idle mixture screw is INSIDE the unit under a 
tamperproof plug (if it is still there). At the least make sure there 
is a plug in it. It is just to the rear of the air intake and air 
sensor plate. DON'T START TURNING IT WITHOUT AN EXHAUST GAS ANALYZER. 
Chances are (if it wasn't f-cked with) it is close enough to pass 
inspection if everything else is OK.
 Pull the front left wheel and see if the shock is still there and if 
anything is hitting it, it might have come loose or bent and is 
hitting something.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "James La Londe" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> I need a new idle spd microswitch... yeah I gotta spend 75 bucks on 
a tinyelectronic piece BUT i know what the problem is. I also adjusted 
the throttle linkage. A problem i noted while the throttle cover was 
off.. when the gas is depressed all the way the thrttle still didn't 
twist all the way. After adjusting the best I can manage is JUST 
before actuating the full-throttle switch.. otherwise I bring the idle 
back up. Is there supposed to be something plugged into the plug next 
to where the idle spd micro plugs in (plug plug plug). I'm doing a 
tune up sometime this week. I asked Rob Grady, and as always he was 
very helpful.. BUT in this case not enough so. Damn that 
distributor... HELP! Any tips... ideas on getting that con-sarn thing 
out of it's little nook at the very back of the engine? it is safe to 
remove the fuel distributor w/o messing up some fine adjustment and 
w/o having gas all over the engine?  Always, what's the best way to 
start finding any vacuum leaks..
> 
> I mean it's not like I can see the air leaking out :P Where should I 
start? It seems to idle ok with the microswitch hard-wired, so i doubt 
vacuum problems... but i'd like to give her a once-over anyways. I 
went to snug the bass bolt on the intake closest to the rear of the 
veh, an with literaly no torque i broke the head off... think it's 
safe still?
> 
> Ok i'l blind, some point me toward the idle adjust screw. Between 
the fuel distributor and the intake right? I can't see it!!! Picture 
anyone? Oil, Coolant, fuel, wiper fluid... what other fluids are 
there.. (manual tranny).. trying to identify this greenish oily stuff. 
doesn't seems like oil or antifreeze or a mixture thereof... 
road-nasty?? Every time i hit a bump there is a "bing" (like a service 
bell) from the passenger front wheel? Any ideas? A little gremlin 
hitting the spring with a ballpeen hammer was my guess... but he must 
keep hiding. Michigan roads suck! ahhhh... HELP!! thank you thank you 
thank you THANK YOU!! i don't know how some of you guy(and girls) find 
time to answer all of the less-experienced people's questions... but I 
think I speak for all the DeLorean novices when i say THANKS!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> -James La Londe
> 1981 Delorean DMC-12 vin#001697 LicPlate DMC XII
> 1998 Kawasaki Vulcan 800
> 1992 Ford Probe GT




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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:36:26 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Automatic Trensmission Computer Details

Jamie, I have changed the caps and up dated the electronics in the governor. 
Email me off line for more information.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com


<< Hello all, I was wondering if anyone has more details on changing the
 capacitors
 in the auto. transmission governor computer. or how I could get a hold
 of
 Mark Hershey to see if I could get more details.
 Please e-mail me at jhamlin_at_dml_avart.net
 Thanks
 Jamie Hamlin
 Miami Fl.
 Vin# 002606
 GIGWATT
  >>



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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:41:20 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Idle/tune-up/vacuum/oil BING!!

Could you ask a few MORE questions in ONE post...

I just replaced my cap/rotor/wires/etc. Found access very easy by
removing upper air assembly (with fuel distributor still attached). Is
only held on by 3 bolts (two 6mm's through brackets on the intake
manifolds and a 10 or so through the butterflies). Also took
opportunity to relocate idle speed motor in less congested part of
engine compartment (makes access to spark plug 4 MUCH easier). I
simply capped off the original supply line and gave the motor its own
breather.

My particular PRV has the idle speed motor hard wired too (courtesy of
Goober, the friendly neighborhood Volvo mechanic -- I'm burning a
replacement block). Microswitch is missing altogether. Except for
additional wear on motor, presents no problems. Experimented running
car without it: no sweat, just adjust bypass screws otherwise not
"f_cked with", but you do need to set rather high to compensate for
A/C compressor load. I decided was smoothest to put the motor back in
(now screwed to the side of the compartment).

Assuming my throttle assemby is stock, idle speed can be at least
partially set with a bolt & lock nut that cracks the butterflies. The
screw you speak of between the air plate and fuel distributor is a
mixture screw (it adjusts plunger movement within the fuel
distributor). Mixture is also adjusted on the fly by a frequency valve
   (also missing on my PRV -- gee Goob, loose anything else while you
were in there, like a wrench inside one of the manifolds?). I could
point out that a LEAN mixture burns hotter than a rich one, but risk
angry replies from DMLer's who think otherwise.

When you replace your vacuum hoses, I suggest using fuel line rather
than traditional hose. It'll hold up MUCH better. If your car idles
smooth already, you probably don't have any leaks. Vacuum leaks show
up at idle, and there's nothing like 'em (pull one of your current
hoses loose and you'll see what I mean).

Unless you've got mold (don't laugh, I did, courtesy of a pinched A/C
evaporator box drain tube) the only green substances in your car
should be antifreeze and freon. Since freon evaporates very quickly,
that narrows your choices. Antifreeze outside the engine is bad. As
Martin G observed in another thread, is a symptom of another
potentially large problem. Exactly where are you finding this residue?

Bill Robertson
#5939





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