From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1198
Date: Monday, September 16, 2002 12:07 PM

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There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Electrical Gremlin Stomped!
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

2. Frame Numbers and DPC (was: 2 Questions)
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

3. Re: angle drive ring clip
From: "Rustproof" <Rustproof_at_dml_prodigy.net>

4. What happened to the DMC-2?
From: "cyberzechidna" <ksarfaraz123_at_dml_attbi.com>

5. New DeLorean Owner
From: "vin7069" <fredvienna_at_dml_fredvienna.at>

6. Re: (Birth Certificates) Frame Numbers and DPC (was: 2 Questions)
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Re: New DeLorean Owner
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>

8. Tom Green DeLorean Mention...
From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>

9. Great Blunders In History (Delorean feature on history channel)
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>

10. RE: New Delorean Owner
From: "Bob & Vicky Miller" <delo1_at_dml_mindspring.com>

11. Re: angle drive ring clip
From: "Jan van de Wouw" <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>

12. RE: When is a D Dream not stainless?
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>

13. Re: Great Blunders In History (Delorean feature on history channel)
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>

14. Looking for dash and coil cover
From: "James La Londe" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>

15. Clackity clack don't talk back
From: "James La Londe" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>

16. IDLE SOLVED wierd problem fixed!!!
From: "James La Londe" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:39:52 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Electrical Gremlin Stomped!

For a while now, I've had an intermidant problem with low voltage 
when the A/C is running. This has been a pain to diagnose, and has 
driven me crazy! But now, I have solved this little electrical 
gremlin!

The situation is this: Sometimes when running the A/C, the voltage 
will drop down to almost the 2nd line on the voltmeter. I can get it 
to go a little farther if I turn the headlights on, and the blower 
motor up. I've also noticed that as I tax the electrical system 
further, the tachometer needle will rise. And as told to me on the 
list by others, this is a sign of an electrical problem. All of my 
ground connections, and every single electrical connection I've been 
able to reach I've cleaned. Another problem is whenever this problem 
occurs, accelleration from a stop is sluggish. But the oddest part 
has been that this issue only occurs intermidantly. And another item 
is that with the A/C off, the idle would be around 11-1200 RPM's. 
With it on, the idle would drop to about 900-950, and the voltage 
would drop. But when the problem didn't occur, the idle would stick _at_dml_ 
950 reguardless, and there wouldn't be as severe a power drop. The 
needle would move, but wouldn't drop below 13V on the voltmeter.

But I have finally diagnosed the issue. A sticky throttle cable!

Recently, I've been troubleshooting an unrelated problem with bad gas 
milage, and noticed that as the summer has progressivly gotten 
hotter, the throttle cable has begun sticking _at_dml_ 23-2400 RPM's, and 
would drop to about 15-1600 with the A/C on. A quick slap of the 
throttle pedal, and the idle would drop to 950 RPM's, and the voltage 
would stay normal. Previously, I thought I had an electrical problem 
with the A/C clutch because it wasn't until the A/C was engaged that 
the voltage level dropped when the issue occured. When I next had the 
problem with the low voltage, I started playing with the window 
switches, and saw that with all accessories on, and both switches 
depressed, I could get the tach to jump and read almost 1500. Turning 
the A/C off, all became normal, except the idle speed hit 1200. Out 
of frustration, I slapped the gas pedal, and the idle returned to 
normal speed, and when the A/C turned back on, I had full power to 
the system! I've tested this a few more times when the problem has 
occured, and I've confirmed it.

The sticking throttle cable was not allowing the throttle spool to 
return fully, thus not tripping the idle speed microswitch. When the 
A/C was on, the both the idle & voltage dropped because of the extra 
load on the engine. Low idle = low voltage because the alternator 
wasn't spinning fast enough to put out enough power to sustain the 
system. Because of a low voltage situation, the tach wasn't able to 
give a correct reading, and was falsely reporting back an incorrect 
idle speed that was faster than it really was. A bit of a vicious 
cycle, but one that I've finally figured out!

I don't think that this is going to be a common occurance with most 
people here. Usually a low power _at_dml_ idle situation is due to dirty 
ground connections. But just in case, I thought I'd share this with 
everyone to help them out in the future.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:00:15 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Frame Numbers and DPC (was: 2 Questions)

As I've mentioned before, this 'card file' is simply the warranty cards that
were returned by the dealers when a car was sold to the first retail
customer. After the original DeLorean Motor Company filed for bankruptcy,
the warranty was taken over by a third party, and the dealers had other
paperwork to return to a different entity. Many of the cards were probably
lost as well when the original DeLorean Motor Company closed and the data
entry staff was laid off.

There is no frame number on these cards, the only identifying numbers are
the VIN and engine number. The other data is interior color, transmission
type, original dealer, selling dealer (if different), buyers name, salesman
name. 

The cards that we have are less than 50% complete, with none of 1982 or 1983
VIN's accounted for. Additionally, there are no 6XXX or 7XXX VINs on the
1981's and very few of the 4,XXX and 5,XXX VIN's.

More than a year ago, I had someone enter all the VIN's, interior colors and
transmission types into a database which was then forwarded to Knut for
inclusion into the "DeLorean Production Chronology" (DPC). These are
identified by the words "Warranty Card" in the "Notes" column on this
listing:

http://dmcnews.com/faq/img/news/n_vinlst.pdf

After the DeLorean Motor Company (Texas) open house last fall, I loaned to
Knut a hard copy printout of one of the last lists of registered owners
produced by the Data Processing department of the original DeLorean Motor
Company. IIRC, this list was dated late October of 1982. This list was
sorted by the registered owners ZIP code, which made searching for
particular VIN's very tedious. It only lists VIN's, and personal contact
information about the original owner, no other data about the car itself. It
listed some cars in the 1982 VIN range, which made it interesting to me from
the VIN chronology point of view. As time permits, I am sure that Knut will
include that data as well in the DeLorean Production Chronology.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

James Espey
NOTE OUR NEW ADDRESS/PHONE NUMBERS
DeLorean Motor Company
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396

281/441-2537 Voice
281/441-2813 Fax
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com

> At the warehouse in Ohio I saw a card file that Leif Montin (former
> parts manager for DMC and at that time employed by DMC Houston) said
> was the index of vin #'s to frame #'s. At some time in the future
> Steve Wynn said they might go through it and create a reference for
> frame #'s to vin #'s. He also mentioned that he thought it was
> incomplete, probably meaning it wasn't kept up throughout the entire
> production run or just doesn't include the 83's. If you really are
> interested in following up on this contact James Espey of DMC Houston.
> There is no other relationship between the vin # and the frame #. The
> frame # was probably created for inventory and tracking purposes
> origionaly by the frame manufacturer.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Chris Parnham" <cp_at_dml_d...> wrote:
>> The Frames were made by GKN in the English Midlands, we have not
>> been able to sort out any useful info regarding the numbers on
>> them.
>> 
>> Chris P  DOC UK




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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:01:15 -0400
From: "Rustproof" <Rustproof_at_dml_prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: angle drive ring clip

Where exactly does the "ring clip" go? I removed my original drive and there
was no clip on that assembly. My new unit with updated cable bracket came
with a small spring-steel circular retaining clip. The workshop manual
mentions it but does not elaborate on its installation. Can anyone clarify
this?
Thanks,
Rustproof
Vin#1559
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Howley" <delorsche_at_dml_att.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] angle drive removal question


> After I removed the cable (that goes to the instrument cluster), I used a
1
> 1/4 box end wrench to loosen the large nut on the back side of the
spindle.
> To remove the angle drive without damaging it, I had to rotate it into a
> position that would allow it to pass in-between two of the spring coils.
It
> was actually much easier of a job than I had expected.  Installation is
the
> reverse - just make sure that you torque the angle drive nut back
properly.
> That is pretty much it!
>
> Sean Howley
> VIN#2345



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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:42:50 -0000
From: "cyberzechidna" <ksarfaraz123_at_dml_attbi.com>
Subject: What happened to the DMC-2?

Does any1 have any info on its current state? and what about the 
high performance one? JZD said it was "85% complete".




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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:54:57 -0000
From: "vin7069" <fredvienna_at_dml_fredvienna.at>
Subject: New DeLorean Owner

hi,

well, after many years i finally got a delorean.

first some brief facts about me:
my name is fred, living in vienna/austria, 28years old, married, no 
children.

my delorean:
vin 7069, built 11/81, 3800 miles.
interiour and exteriour in a very good condition (small mainenance 
required; brake pads, drive belts).
some pictures on www.fredvienna.at/delorean (still with the german 
registration plates and the previous owner; i donīt have newer
pics, 
but i will add more photos soon).

any other people from austria in this list?

greetings,
Fred






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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:45:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: (Birth Certificates) Frame Numbers and DPC (was: 2 Questions)

Okay another question concerning these warentee cards
then. This actuall intrigues me as this was something
I was thinking about in the back of my mind. If
someone was to send there frame and Vin number to the
office would it be possible to get a copy of the
original warentee card if avaliable? Or is that
information confidentual due to the fact it contains
the original owners names and adresses? Maybe Im in
the minority here but I think it would be cool, if
possible of course, to be able to have something like
that. Just sort of a "birth certificate" if you would.
It's probally not possible, and someone will probally
begin to shout from the roof tops "CONFIDENTIAL" and
"TOP SECRET" but I personally think it would be cool.
I just pride myself in the fact that I want to know
every little detail about my car. I'm very passionet
about this dream, I would even donate time to
researching vins and origins if I knew where to begin.
I just believe that the dream should not end with
owning a DMC-12 but knowing where it came from if
possible. If we know where were coming from then we
can see where were all going.

Todd
Vin5386


=====
For up to the minute details on the restoration of Vin5386 point your browser to, http://www.khpindustries.com/stainlessrestorations.html

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News - Today's headlines
http://news.yahoo.com



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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:50:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New DeLorean Owner

Congrads Fred,

Great to hear you realized your dream! I'm Todd from
Pennsylvania USA. I realized my dream in June of this
year when 5386 came home. I saw the pics she looks
like a gem. You can check my site out if you want. I
entered into the dream with a project DeLorean. 

Great to see that your liveing the stainless dream.
Good luck!!

Todd
vin5386
--- vin7069 <fredvienna_at_dml_fredvienna.at> wrote:
> hi,
> 
> well, after many years i finally got a delorean.
> 
> first some brief facts about me:
> my name is fred, living in vienna/austria, 28years
> old, married, no 
> children.
> 
> my delorean:
> vin 7069, built 11/81, 3800 miles.
> interiour and exteriour in a very good condition
> (small mainenance 
> required; brake pads, drive belts).
> some pictures on www.fredvienna.at/delorean (still
> with the german 
> registration plates and the previous owner; i donīt
> have newer
> pics, 
> but i will add more photos soon).
> 
> any other people from austria in this list?
> 
> greetings,
> Fred



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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:20:23 -0400
From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>
Subject: Tom Green DeLorean Mention...

Just saw the movie Stealing Harvard with Tom Green and Jason Lee .
 
Tom Green is speaking to Jason Lee and mentions :
 
"You could always go to a horse race. bet $1000 on a 30 to 1 odds race.
Win and buy a DELOREAN and crash it into a tree"
 
Just thought I would let you all know . that was about the only good
part in the movie! 
 
:-)
 
Kenneth 
05541

[Moderator Note: Post approved for informational purposes only.  Please do not respond with your own movie reviews.  - moderator Mike Substelny]



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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:36:59 -0400
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>
Subject: Great Blunders In History (Delorean feature on history channel)

The "Great Blunders In History" is supposed to air on History Channel on
9/16 at 10:30 (East Coast/NJ time)
 
I have recently be toying with extracting and encoding video from my
Tivo DVR to .mpg files.   If my A/V sync issues are not plauging me with
this episode, I should have a copy of this program available online
shortly for people with Broadband connections.
 
I will keep you posted.
 
Kevin Abato
Vin# 16680


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 00:10:08 -0400
From: "Bob & Vicky Miller" <delo1_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: New Delorean Owner



hello Group... we are looking for Kyle Frankin???email address is
???roadkill???I think he is in Missouri  ???  not sure though
any info please email us privately .. thanks for your help....bob




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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:11:32 -0000
From: "Jan van de Wouw" <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>
Subject: Re: angle drive ring clip

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Rustproof" <Rustproof_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> Where exactly does the "ring clip" go?

Have a look in your parts mannual, section 5-1-1 item 14
They call it a Retaining Ring part# 106938.

This ring is to be clipped into the recession at the tip of the
AD-housing, you have to compress it to slip it into the
Adapter nut. When you push in the AD tha spring slides 
through the nut and opens up when it's all the way in,
so the AD doesn't come off when pulled on.

This brings me to another question I saw on the list that 
didn't get answered: removing the drive from the nut.
To do so you have to remove the nut with the drive from 
the back of the steering knuckle. You can create more
room to work in by removing the tie rod from the knuckle;
when this is loose you can turn the knuckle giving you a 
lot more room to work in AND more space for torqueing 
it all up again properly! 
Take care with the  tie rod ends; they have a tapered fit!

Now with the AD and nut removed lay the assy flat on the 
back of the AD with the cable pointing up.
Take two SMALL flat head screwdrivers and carefully pry
the ring up with one driver, while keeping it from rotating
with the other. It took me 15 minutes the first time, now 
I can do this in 3... Just go easy, if the ring snaps is no 
problem either; you should replace it annyway.

Mail me if you need more info, I might have some pic 
I could send you, but I'd have to search for them.

Good Luck,

Jan van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

--------------------------------






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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:18:29 -0400
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>
Subject: RE: When is a D Dream not stainless?

Price is NOT a good indicator of car condition.  I have seen more cars than I can remember in the $15K-$20K range that I would not pay more than $5K for..  But many of those sellers got their asking price, and had a new generation of DeLorean owners talking about problems with their cars.

The #1 killer of DeLoreans is owner neglect.  The #1 killer of DeLorean Image is unsuspecting customers overpaying for their car.  This is a problem unique to DeLoreans because neglected Stainless Steel can be cleaned up before selling, and the rest of the problems can only be seen by the experienced DeLorean enthusiast.

Find someone in your area to shop with you, and look at cars in all price ranges.  You may find the creampuff for under $15K.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: treehouse2000us [mailto:treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 8:08 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] When is a D Dream not stainless?
> 
><SNIP>
> Heres the survey I conducted and its results (mind you this is a poor 
> area to live).
> 
> DeLorean Expense: Cost in US Dollars
> 
> $0-9999   Junker/Non Running or running with problems...  1 vote
> 
> $10000-13999 Runs but interior/exterior usual with problems, minor 
> engine and transmission issues...                         18 votes
> 
> $14000-18000 Looks and runs great, few problems, everything generaly 
> in good shape                                             8  votes
> 
> $18000-25000 Near perfect condition                       3 votes
> 
> $32000       Refurbished/New Conditon                      1 vote
> 
> Whats a DeLorean?                                         15 votes
> 
> (What a conincidence!!)
> 
<SNIP>



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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:33:00 -0500
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Great Blunders In History (Delorean feature on history channel)

is that am or pm?

Kevin Abato wrote:

> The "Great Blunders In History" is supposed to air on History Channel on
> 9/16 at 10:30 (East Coast/NJ time)



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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:06:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "James La Londe" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: Looking for dash and coil cover

 My Car has a crack in the Dash, and is missing the ignition coil cover... These these have always irked me, but are so superficial I feel like I'm wasting the 600 bucks for a dash... and over 100 for a simple plastic coil cover.Does anyone know where I might find a used coil cover and/or a used *black* dasbboard?Please email off list if you have any leads!Thanks so much!!-James La Londe1981 Delorean DMC-12 vin#001697 LicPlate DMC XII1998 Kawasaki Vulcan 8001992 Ford Probe GT

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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:17:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: "James La Londe" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: Clackity clack don't talk back

 My engine has always made a clacking noise. Not a scary "gonna fall apart" clacking... but just an annoying noise that sounds fairly benign. I know other non-exotic cars can suffer from worn or borken valve spring(s) and thus the rockers clack around because they aren't held taught. Or perhald the exhaust is the culpret.. loose manifold or gasket.The thing is the car purrs like a kitty cat when at idle or low RPM and it's only when accelerating it makes the clacking. Performance is not effected... Sounds like it may be originating from the passeger side of the engine compartment..I've listened around but can't pinpoint the noise. anyone else had similiar sounds? any ideas? -James La Londe1981 Delorean DMC-12 vin#001697 LicPlate DMC XII1998 Kawasaki Vulcan 8001992 Ford Probe GT

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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:24:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: "James La Londe" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: IDLE SOLVED wierd problem fixed!!!

 My car idles right! (YAY)My throttle linkage was not adjusted properly and didn't allow the spring to pull back to idle, nor allow you to open to WOT. I still have to tap the pedal to make the car kick down to idle... but it's better than it was.Another problem I'd thought I'd share was a loose butterfly valve. Not only did it cause a rattle but  would cause bouth valve to get stuck open sometimes... causing drastically high idle.If you're having troublesome idle issues you may want to check this out too.. just align and tighten the screws on the butterfly and viola. less engine rattle and perfect idle.I'd still like the engine to idle w/o me having to tap the pedal...Happy driving all!! it's coming up on my favorite driving season!! (except those pesky droopy doors)-James La Londe1981 Delorean DMC-12 vin#001697 LicPlate DMC XII1998 Kawasaki Vulcan 8001992 Ford Probe GT

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