From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1221
Date: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 12:07 PM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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There are 19 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: clutch
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

2. AW: Re: Problem with Lockzilla
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

3. Re: clutch
From: "jack stiefel" <jackstiefel_at_dml_sacketmansion.com>

4. One of a kind Delorean-Pilot Car
From: Gary Valenziano <piason_at_dml_attbi.com>

5. Downfall of DMC - continued
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>

6. Re: Evansville MCC AutoFest (club award)
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com

7. Re: AW: Re: Problem with Lockzilla
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

8. Re: New Owner - a few questions
From: "saalexander2000" <stuartalexander_at_dml_hotmail.com>

9. RE: One of a kind Delorean-Pilot Car
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>

10. Re: One of a kind Delorean-Pilot Car
From: piason_at_dml_attbi.com

11. power window motor wanted
From: "C. C. Cameron Putsch" <putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu>

12. Re: Side Accent Stripes
From: "khyron_21502" <khyron_21502_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. Re: New Owner - a few questions
From: "fivetwofive" <CBL302_at_dml_msn.com>

14. help!- start problem
From: "Robin Glebes" <robglebes_at_dml_hotmail.com>

15. Re: Hi from Evansville
From: "delorean66" <delorean66_at_dml_yahoo.com>

16. Re: One of a kind Delorean-Pilot Car
From: "fivetwofive" <CBL302_at_dml_msn.com>

17. Re: [ncdmc] One of a kind Delorean-Pilot Car
From: WtrResQ_at_dml_AOL.com

18. RE: One of a kind Delorean-Pilot Car
From: "HotPop" <dmcboy1der_at_dml_hotpop.com>

19. when car dealerships go bad
From: "Hank Eskin" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:18:40 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: clutch

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> well there is funny noises comming from the clutch area and follow 
clutch
> application and engine rpm so i am going to do a clutch job.  but 
first
> things first... is it easier to pull the rear facia and rear 
fenders and
> pull the whole engine/tranny or pull the tranny on jackstands.
<SNIP>

It's not nessisary to pull the engine, just drop the tranny. I've 
never done it myself, but I have seen it done when my car was in the 
shop. Disconnected the linkage, the CV's, the slave cylinder, and 
unbolted the motor & mounts. Lift up, slide forward past the tranny 
mounts, and drop. BUT, after seeing what needed to be done, I 
wouldn't attempt a clutch replacement without the car on a lift, and 
a transmission jack.

The whole job took 4 hours to drop/replace the tranny, resurface the 
flywheel, adjust the shift linkage, install slave clutch, bleed the 
system, and test drive. Of course though, there were 4 experienced 
DeLorean mechanics working on my car _at_dml_ the same time. Not a job for 
the faint of heart, or inexperienced mechanic.

<SNIP>...while I do buy from the dealers and use services of the 
dealers
> (mainly DMCH) i am in a position of looking for a clutch kit 
elsewhere due
> to cost.
<SNIP>
does anyone know if there is an application out
> there that will crossover.  i'd rather not buy bits and pieces. I 
relize i
> might have to buy the pilot bushing/bearing outta the kit.  or if 
no one
> knows of a kit then bits and pieces will do.  I prefer zeeter parts 
and
> don't fully like centerforce but if that's what you got...
<SNIP>

Bite the bullet, and just order the entire kit. While you're at it, 
also replace the Clutch M/C, S/C, and hydraulic line if you've not 
already done so. I tried to buy a little here, and buy a little 
there, and the results were a disaster to my wallet. My new cluch 
died a couple of months later, and I had to replace it again. If 
something is worth doing, it's worth doing right.

There isn't a single thing wrong with the Centerforce kit. Nor is 
there with the OEM kit that Houston has. In fact, with the exception 
of the clutch wieghts, they're both the same. Both clutch kits are 
made by Valeo. Unless they've changed though, I don't believe the the 
OEM kit from DMCH comes with the pilot bearing. The Centerforce one 
from PJ Grady did.

No matter what though, make sure that you follow PJ Grady's advise, 
and lube the fork with a 50/50 mix of grease & anti-sieze compound. 
Otherwise the resulting squeek is quite annoying!

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:39:32 +0200
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: AW: Re: Problem with Lockzilla

Hi Martin,

what kind of protection diodes are you talking about ? to cut the spikes of
the selenoides in the door or for the normaly used diodes parallel to the
relay ? (last one not really necessarry because current will go down to zero
itself)
I think the only correct way to solve the problem of sticking relays is to
built a completely
new module without mechanical switches. But so far my one lasted 4 months
since modification (used almost every day about 10 times with a remote
control) and before this it lasted at least 15 years befor it was
disconnected after the selenoids burned.

By the way, this fan fail module - can you tell me what is the problem with
that one ? Why would it fail ? Winter is near and may be I'll find some time
to replace this thing, too.

Elvis & 6548



Elvis,

I have done some extensive research on these modules which is all documented
in the DMC
news tech article. I don't think you've had to troubleshoot a malfunctioning
unit before,
hence why you don't see any reason to add protection diodes, replace the
capacitors or
transistors.

You're right though (as is Knut), I didn't spend as long as I should reading
the diagram
(which should be oh-so-familiar by now!) before posting last.

I am very well aware that switching a relay off slowly is very bad - and
have said this
on several occasions before. It causes arcing and pitting of the contact
surfaces.
However, if you use sealed relays which contain an inert gas, you bypass
this problem.
The OEM module is a crap design, but by replacing and adding various
components, I'm
happy mine's robust enough to trust with a remote central locking system
which I've
fitted and has been working for 8 months now.

Martin
#1458 & #4426




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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:55:16 -0400
From: "jack stiefel" <jackstiefel_at_dml_sacketmansion.com>
Subject: Re: clutch

I did my clutch job while on jack stands.  My buddy removed the tranny, and
lowered it down without removing anything on the car.  In fact only the back
of the car was lifted on stands (scary I know, but he was brave).

BTW I am near Brunswick Georgia for the next week if any members would like
to get together one evening.  email me off list

Jack Stiefel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_attbi.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 11:27 PM
Subject: [DML] clutch


> well there is funny noises comming from the clutch area and follow clutch
> application and engine rpm so i am going to do a clutch job.  but first
> things first... is it easier to pull the rear facia and rear fenders and
> pull the whole engine/tranny or pull the tranny on jackstands.  a few
> questions, while I do buy from the dealers and use services of the dealers
> (mainly DMCH) i am in a position of looking for a clutch kit elsewhere due
> to cost.  but i will be buying a front frame extention from a dealer soon,
> any of the dealers out there feel free to e-mail me an estmate to replace
> front frame ext. and sway bar.  keep in mind, the car is in tucson so LA
> dealers this is your moment to shine but will enterain offers from DMCH.
> anyway back to the issue.  does anyone know if there is an application out
> there that will crossover.  i'd rather not buy bits and pieces. I relize i
> might have to buy the pilot bushing/bearing outta the kit.  or if no one
> knows of a kit then bits and pieces will do.  I prefer zeeter parts and
> don't fully like centerforce but if that's what you got...
>
> Thanx,
>
> Darkstar
> #10246
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>




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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:26:09 -0700
From: Gary Valenziano <piason_at_dml_attbi.com>
Subject: One of a kind Delorean-Pilot Car

Hey every one,
Got back from the Northwest Passage Drive and had a great time meeting
other people with similar interests-DeLoreans.
But the reason I am writing is to let you know that I met someone that
owns an unusual DeLorean in that it's a Pilot car.
Meaning it was a preproduction car hand built by Lotus, brought into the
U.S. for emissions testing and one of 28 DeLoreans used on the test
track while the factory was being built in Belfast.
This is one of only 2 of these cas that are believed to be left, as the
others were dismantled in the testing process.
Sascha is his name and he bought the car from a former DMC employee in
Santa Anna.
Before you all go thinking -Oh Sure It Is- this car was not only checked
out by Steven of DMC Houston,
But by all the vendors at the show in Portland Rob-P.J. Grady,
Ed-Delorean One and Don -Delorean Motor Center.
And all agree that this is the real thing and as such something very
special.
Sascha will be staying at my house tonight and Tuesday night then
heading to L.A. Wednesday if anyone wants to stop by to see this one of
a kind DeLorean.
He will be completing his drive across the U.S. by heading south into
San Diego and then into Nevada, Colorado, Texas, Florida, Tennessee and
then back north into Pennsylvania; however, he may change his plans and
head back into Ohio.  No holes are barred.  If any one wants to contact
him, he can be reached at sascha_at_dml_ragingbull.com.
He is willing to meet with other enthusiast - Ken K.!
Just give me a call  Gary 925-426-1496 if you are interested in seeing
this car he will be around today then we are going to tour San Francisco
tomorrow.





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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:04:48 -0400
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>
Subject: Downfall of DMC - continued

Among the many points brought out over a period of time, regarding the fall
of DMC, the thing that seems to be dwelled on most is financial condition of
the corporation. Avoided are: the lousy condition, ( finished electrical,
etc.) when they arrived at the dealers, as well as a poor performance from
the motor of a vehicle that looked so swift. Had the DeLorean been given a
performance motor of 225 - 250+ hp instead of 137 hp, many would have
overlooked the time factor to fix the self locking doors, relays and such.
Get this unique looking car with all its features plus enough power to blow
away a Vette, Camaro, etc.? A 12 second street car!!! That would have sold
the number of cars JZD projected! That or cut back on production and make
people's tongues hang out for one. Nothing happens in a company until a sale
of their product is made.They missed the basics. Rear wheel spinning and
smoking performance!!  Especially on an introductory year. There were alot
of heavy feet out there! Hell, even I would have scrapped some extra bucks
together to be the first to own one of those stainless steel cars. The write
ups at the time were mediocre at best. Some called the performance "smooth",
& "adequate". Who cares about adequate? When I want to pass a car or get
into the flow of traffic on a freeway, I want performance and a grumble out
of the exhaust.

How many out there would love to have that Chevy powered DeLorean we saw in
Memphis, in their garage.(if it were a factory option).  Please line up
behind me.

Marv
# 17707
marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com





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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:00:37 EDT
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Evansville MCC AutoFest (club award)

  rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net writes:


> Great weather, Great attendance, Great Time had by all.
> 

   I agree with Rich on this 100%, it was a great event. And I'd like to 
congratulate all the Delorean owners who attended the MCC AutoFest event in 
Evansville for the Club Participation Award we received. I was honored to 
accept this award on behalf of the group. I think everyone in the group went 
to the event for the purpose of having fun, and the award was just a bonus. 
    If all of those who participated in this event agree, I propose we 
present this award to Bob Dunn and his wife Pat, local Evansville Delorean 
owners who acted as our hosts during our stay in town. I think the award 
would look great displayed in the lobby of their hotel, which they have 
allowed us to use as "home base" for every AutoFest event the group has 
attended. Many thanks go to them for their warm hospitality.

    Marty


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:18:26 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: AW: Re: Problem with Lockzilla

Elvis Nocita wrote:

> what kind of protection diodes are you talking about ? to cut the spikes of
> the selenoides in the door or for the normaly used diodes parallel to the
> relay ?

Please see the article at:

http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/doorlocks.htm

Specifically the update from 10/1/01

> By the way, this fan fail module - can you tell me what is the problem with
> that one ? Why would it fail ? Winter is near and may be I'll find some time
> to replace this thing, too.

Consider the current the fans draw. Now consider passing this current through a PCB track
a couple of millimetres wide. Now connect the brass (!) module "legs" to these tracks by
soldering a tip barely a millimetre across. Imagine what happenns when you unplug and
replace the module a couple of times. Dry joints anyone?!

I've replaced both the fan relay and the fan fail module with a pair of relays with
integrated 15A fuses, mounted in trailing sockets with the wires crimped so each fan is
powered from one relay.

Martin
#1458 & #4426 - picking her up this weekend!




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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:08:44 -0000
From: "saalexander2000" <stuartalexander_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New Owner - a few questions

Thanks for the advice - I appreciate it.  The tyres are the correct 
Goodyear NCT 195s in pretty good condition - think it must be the 
shocks.  I've replaced the washer motor but can't find the route of 
the tubing from the motor to the wiper - mine seems to be missing.  I 
don't know where to put the replacement tube as I cant see anything 
behind the dashboard.

Cheers,

Stuart

#16686




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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:18:17 -0400
From: "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>
Subject: RE: One of a kind Delorean-Pilot Car

Pictures!?

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gary Valenziano [mailto:piason_at_dml_attbi.com] 
>Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 3:26 PM
>To: Montgomery, Ken; ncdmc_at_dml_yahoogroups.com; dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] One of a kind Delorean-Pilot Car


>I met someone that owns an unusual
>DeLorean in that it's a Pilot car. Meaning it was a preproduction car
>hand built by Lotus, brought into the U.S. for emissions testing and one
>of 28 DeLoreans used on the test track while the factory was being built
>in Belfast. This is one of only 2 of these cas that are believed to be
>left, as the others were dismantled in the testing process. 



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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:53:08 +0000
From: piason_at_dml_attbi.com
Subject: Re: One of a kind Delorean-Pilot Car

An addition to my last message is. I guess I should have 
said that all the vendors that looked at the car said 
that it very well COULD be a pilot car but all would 
need to see it on a lift and examine it closer.
Although Ed from D-1 was not convinced or have any 
evidence that would suggest that it was anything more 
than a car that has been modified.
Ah but this kind of debate is what makes our cars 
special.
Gary
> 



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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:13:45 -0400
From: "C. C. Cameron Putsch" <putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu>
Subject: power window motor wanted

Does anyone have a power window motor and track that they would like to sell? It is not going to be used for my window, but a custom application so it does not have to be in perfect condition.

Casey at putsch.1_at_dml_osu.edu 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 02:38:52 -0000
From: "khyron_21502" <khyron_21502_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Side Accent Stripes

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "James La Londe" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_e...> wrote:

 
But two cars on ebay right now have another accent-stripe up by the 
buttom window line that seems to have something written below the 
(nonfunctional) side vents. Why have i never seen this!? I've had 
the car for 11 months and been an avid reader on the car, yet this 
the first time I've seen this. does anyone have some pics of this 
line up close and some nice-quality ones from a few angles they can 
email me. (or just reference your web site)
> 
> thanks!!!

Those accent-stripes looks like the Dealer option thin grey stripe.
If I remember correctly there is a DMC logo under the side vents.
I looked though my collection and couldn't find any pics of it 
though.
Sorry...

Scott Evans
vin#3180




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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 03:25:18 -0000
From: "fivetwofive" <CBL302_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Re: New Owner - a few questions

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Hi Stuart
> 
> Glad to see another Brit on the DML!
> 
> 
> > The car has black seats and dashboard with grey carpet.  I've 
never
> > seen any pics of cars with this combination.  Do you think the 
carpet
> > is non-original or maybe it's because it's quite a late car 
(Aug '82)
> > and they were using up what was left?
> 
> Not in late '82 as far as I know - Dave Howarth's latest right-
hander has a really
> mix-n-matched interior.
> 
> Martin
> DOC UK
> #1458 & #4426

Stuart,Welcome to the DML...
Being the second owner of Vin#16686 (1987-1988)I CAN assure you that 
it is all factory,I will also check pictures I took of vin#16686 just 
to make sure,that no owner after me changed anything,I also have a 
Delorean that is a little different vin# 10144 Dec.81 build,(grey 
interior)has no LED console clock,had the 1983 style radio(somebody 
removed it)and has the newer built in Door pull straps.Mix and 
match,whatever was on the assembly line at the time I guess.

Claude
000570

P.S.
Stuart,did you get the email I sent you regarding the video of 
16686.If not email me for further info.
Claude





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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 23:31:08 -0400
From: "Robin Glebes" <robglebes_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: help!- start problem

Hello again,
   Thanks for the advice so far, but the car's still not running.  I'll try 
to update and answer your questions.

The car was running rough, both at idle(searching)and while driving.
The idle speed motor is turning on.
Voltage on the resistor on the bottom right side during cranking was 4.8 
volts.
Voltage at terminal 15 of coil was about 4.3 volts.
Cleaned terminals at plug going into firewall.
Timing is slightly reatarded.
Took out RPM relay and checked it out, alright.
Mixture appears to be fine.

If anyone has any more suggestions, I'd be greatful.  Again, thanks for all 
the help.
-Rob



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx




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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 05:14:46 -0000
From: "delorean66" <delorean66_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hi from Evansville

When will this episode of "My Classic Car" air on TV? Will it be on 
Speedvision?

Grigor
www.deloreans.cjb.net




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> Greetings from Evansville IN Autofest 2002. I've uploaded a couple 
of 
> photos to the "photos" section (look in "Evansville") - Dennis 
Gage 
> in Rich W's D-Rex filming the close of "My Classic Car" and the 
> lineup of the 14 DeLoreans that were featured. They treated us 
well 
> giving is the prime position lined up at the riverfront. I should 
be 
> able to get more pics on the dmcnews.com webpage in a day or so.
> 
> We toured here from as far away as Minnesota and Colorado. Special
> cars included of course D-Rex and Ron Wester's screaming yellow D.
> 
> Dave Swingle (here with Marty, Bruce, and others too numerous to 
> mention...)




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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:13:49 -0000
From: "fivetwofive" <CBL302_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Re: One of a kind Delorean-Pilot Car

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., piason_at_dml_a... wrote:
> An addition to my last message is. I guess I should have 
> said that all the vendors that looked at the car said 
> that it very well COULD be a pilot car but all would 
> need to see it on a lift and examine it closer.
> Although Ed from D-1 was not convinced or have any 
> evidence that would suggest that it was anything more 
> than a car that has been modified.
> Ah but this kind of debate is what makes our cars 
> special.
> Gary
> >

Cut and Dry---If it never got Factory vin plates it never left the 
factory(01-499) or Lotus testing grounds,(or other testing/crashing 
facilities)all cars that departed the factory and went overseas 
started with vin #500.The first prototypes do not count as they WERE 
built in the USA.Example:the fiberglass bodied Deloreans that Lotus 
used as test vehicles,(also the ONLY factory authorized painted 
deloreans)painted by Lotus.

Claude
00570







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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 05:37:22 EDT
From: WtrResQ_at_dml_AOL.com
Subject: Re: [ncdmc] One of a kind Delorean-Pilot Car

gary,

there is one of these cars sitting in a driveway in san jose.  i saw it while 
on patrol one day and stopped to talk to the owner.  its not in very good 
shape but only had a couple hundrad miles on it if i recall correctly.

james



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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:20:02 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
From: "HotPop" <dmcboy1der_at_dml_hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: One of a kind Delorean-Pilot Car

There was one of these at the DOA's event in portland, It was a 'black' car,
one that didn't have SS panels, since it was built before they were finished
 the only differences were the lack of DeLorean Logos, (the owner had
attached some on his own) also there was a compartment in the center console
 Also the shifter was different. Other than that, and the VIN of something
like 23, It was like the regular DeLorean.



Trevor Johnson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:21:59 -0400
From: "Hank Eskin" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: when car dealerships go bad

[Moderator: I know this is on the edge of valid DML content, but as we are
all automobile enthusiasts, I felt our community would appreciate this
story.]

Not exactly Delorean content, but this is making the rounds on the internet,
and if you haven't seen it yet, it's a great story:

A woman drops off her 2003 Cobra SVT at a car dealer, and the tech posts on
a Mustang messageboard about all the fun he and a buddy had with her car...
http://65.31.67.109/showthread.php?threadid=29134

The owner reads the messageboard and discovers what happened to her car...
www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=19809

...tech loses his job, controversy ensues.

So, if you get your Delorean serviced at shop you don't know that well, be
careful. (Hey, Delorean related content after all!)

-Hank




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