From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1229
Date: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:52 AM

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There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Whoopeee, I Sure do Love my LockZilla
From: ZillaDelorean_at_dml_aol.com

2. My 1982 DeLorean for Sale
From: "Olson,David" <dolson_at_dml_bamc.org>

3. RE: 17000 series
From: "Michael G. Fischer" <michael.fischer_at_dml_dittybase.com>

4. Distinctive Gull Wing Doors
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

5. Re: Re: The D gets cheaper every day.
From: deloreanss_at_dml_aol.com

6. 17XXX VIN's
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

7. FW: DeLorean: Stainless Steel Illusion Reprint
From: "James Espey" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

8. Clarification: minor wiring harness question (message #28613)
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

9. Correction: Only running on five cylinders (message #28612)
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

10. Fan Speed
From: "Willie Mack" <wmack_at_dml_vt.edu>

11. Re: Whoopeee, I Sure do Love my LockZilla
From: "Hank Eskin" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>

12. Re: Re: minor wiring harness question
From: "Hank Eskin" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>

13. Re: Manifold heat stove...
From: "Adam" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>

14. Re: 17000 series
From: "Adam" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>

15. Re: Fan Speed
From: Mark Noeltner <mark_at_dml_buffalochips.org>

16. Evansville Autofest Pics
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 10:36:03 EDT
From: ZillaDelorean_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Whoopeee, I Sure do Love my LockZilla

So, I go away for a week and come home to 20 odd posts with the Title of " 
Problem with LockZilla".

I really gotta say, I'm disappointed in everybody who posted to that title 
given there was NOTHING wrong with the LockZilla unit that inspired the post 
nor any that followed. 
While we're all very pleased at the tireless and thankless efforts that the 
DML editors contribute to this Forum, 
I can't help but wonder, who was asleep at the wheel ?
Did it not occur to anyone that I might find the Title "Problem with 
LockZilla" offensive ?
If I were new to DeLorean ownership wouldn't I see such a Title as a signal 
to stay away from this device ?
Would a new owner know that it's been in production for 10 years with a 
perfect operational record ?

I'm also surprised ( and I see it often ), how some owners of Zilla Products 
will post the list to ask questions about their unit rather than email me. 
Wouldn't it make sense to seek the answer from the source ? 
It's easy to do. If you can't remember   ZillaDeLorean_at_dml_aol.com 
then I'm sure you can remember   DeLoreanParts.com

Now, to answer the question that started the twisted thread:
Every device in your car that is constantly on (not ignition switched ), is 
on because it is in standby or supervisory mode. There is NO FREE LUNCH. 
Every such device has a job to do and will draw a token amount of current 
from your battery. You are very likely to add toys to your car of various 
descriptions that will also have a slight draw on your battery. 

How big a deal is it?
If you drive your car every few weeks, it will present no problem at all. The 
problem is, more often than not, we tend to store our cars longer than we 
think. What we recall as 3 weeks is often a month and a half. It's human 
nature.

It has long been accepted that when you "store" your car, a battery 
disconnect switch is in order. While not the perfect solution, it works.

If I recall the post that started it all......"my battery drops a volt per 
week". 
Personally, I think it sounds like it's time for a new battery.

"What the hell is a GIGAWATT ?"
Some folks are not extremely electronic minded .....
A Milliamp or Amp means nothing to them. 
OK
How much current does LockZilla draw in standby mode ?
13 ma Typical. I noticed someone volunteered this and was glad to see they 
were correct.  
To those folks who need a sense of what 13 ma means, picture a miniature 12 
volt automotive bulb. Got it ?
Now think MUCH SMALLER, about the size of a grain of wheat. To run such a 
bulb at average brightness it would draw more than LockZilla.  The bulb would 
need an average of 20ma.

Now, Remember the Sears Die Hard Battery commercials done in the Frozen 
Tundra ? 
Sears would line up 12 cars in the snow and run the headlights ALL NIGHT. Of 
course only the Sears Die hard batteries would still start the cars the 
sometime later. 

While this may be somewhat of a stretch, even if it's close to true, think 
about what this means. Headlamps draw a HUGE amount of power. The starter 
also draws a HUGE amount of power and yet the car still starts.
Please bear in mind, I am not endorsing Die Hards.
Frankly, as a general rule, I think ALL batteries suck.

Conclusion:
If you believe your accessory standby current is your problem you either need 
a new battery or you're over-storing your car and not using a battery 
disconnect switch.
While there are weird exceptions to this rule of thumb, more often than not, 
this is the case.

Bob Zilla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:48:20 -0500
From: "Olson,David" <dolson_at_dml_bamc.org>
Subject: My 1982 DeLorean for Sale

A new house and a new baby!   After seven years of caring for my DeLorean it
has to go up for sale.  This car is perfect.  (1982, black interior, 5
speed, 39,460 miles, in # 11594)  E-mail me for pictures and more detail!
Located in Northeast Wisconsin. dolson(AT)bamc.org



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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:31:50 -0700
From: "Michael G. Fischer" <michael.fischer_at_dml_dittybase.com>
Subject: RE: 17000 series

  As a Canadian and owner of one the 'Canadian' D's .. I've been wondering
about this for years;  but so far the information I've been able to find is
almost nil;  since the 83's were never that well documented.

  But, now seems like a great time for all of us 83er's and Canucks to share
info and see.
I'm the 2nd owner of 17106, and the previous owner kept extensive records;
I'm pretty sure this is all stock.

Here's what I've found that seems to be different, either as an 83 or as a
Canadian spec. car.

Canadianna:
-Metric Gauges: 240 km/h speedo, Temperature in Celsius and Oil Pressure in
kPa
-Block Heater: or do the cold climate US car have this too?
-My front signal lights are solid amber.
-Not stuck on but I have a "Unleaded Gas only" sticker for by the filler,
but in French.
-Canadian Tire MotoMaster battery.  (Just kidding, this isn't stock :) )

83isms:
-Flat Hood with DeLorean Logo
-Straight Pipes: no exhaust tips
-Throttle spool cover
-ASI radio

Other oddities:
-My trail arm shield bolts are the one piece 'strip' not the 3 separate
bolts.  


Mike
#17106



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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 17:10:36 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Distinctive Gull Wing Doors

Recent thread Re: DeLorean pricing prompts following:

Gull wings may be our cars' single most recognizable feature (more
than stainless veneer?), but I sometimes do tire of EVERY photo, T
shirt, hat, etc w/ standard both doors open pose. Have you ever
admired the vehicle with its doors CLOSED? Is very attractive stance:
wide, low, sleek. The car looks fast just standing still (a little
faster than it in fact is OFF THE LINE). In its native environment --
driving down a road with the doors CLOSED -- is overwhelmingly
prettier than anything being passed (I highly recommend a road trip w/
another D. Until you see one from the perspective of other motorists,
you don't realize how fortunate ownership really is). Yes, I am glad
my doors open up, especially when working on the interior. But try
this comparison: note the emotional response when you first see your
car in the driveway all closed up. Then forget something in the house,
leave the door open while you run back to get it,  and note your
response when you see the car again. I'll bet the first is stronger.

Re: What would have happened w/ longer production run -- when you
think about it, we are all driving around in glorified prototypes.
Development money wasn't available to fix any but the least costly
lessons learned in 1981 (kind of puts any problems into perspective,
doesn't it). Now think about this -- amazingly few problems pop up on
what was essentially a one shot proposition (designed in vs neglect,
age, etc). IMHO that is a real credit to the people who designed and
built these cars. Imagine how big DML archive would be if people
posted messages Re: things that DIDN'T break, things that worked WELL,
etc!

'nuff said.

Bill Robertson
#5939





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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:10:48 EDT
From: deloreanss_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: The D gets cheaper every day.

In a message dated 10/7/2002 9:27:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CBL302_at_dml_msn.com 
writes:


> Expecially since the Delorean has no important History 
> behind it(Street or track racing or Legendary figures/time eras ect. 
> behind it)Yes I know JZD,Lotus,and Ital-Design,BUT all the negative 
> things/problems knocked it out of wack,The gullwing doors is Not what 
> makes the car special,as the Bricklin has those,THE thing that makes 
> it special is THE STAINLESS STEEL SKIN,and the "cult" like following 
> that it has.

You know I have to chime in on this one. I don't want to get into a "no this 
is what makes it special" match or anything but I have to disagree with a few 
points here. No Story? What about "Top GM executive, creator of the GTO, 
quits cushy job to start new car company in North Ireland," "DeLorean car to 
be built in unconventional manner including stainless steel skin and gull 
wing doors," "Will the dream be realized?", and "All hopes lost as DMC 
crashes into Gallway Bay, Delorean ruined in court proceedings after court 
proceedings. Only 8500 (rounded estimate) cars sold, dream over." Show me 
another car with that story. This car had all the makings of a celebrity the 
minute it was first penciled. Even before the DML, the internet, or the DOA 
this car was not relegated to the ranks of the VW Scirrocco or Isuzu Impulse. 
It is speacial for what it is, gullwings and all. Yes the stainless figures 
in, but there is a hell of a body to go along, a rear engine, Lotus 
suspension design, gullwing doors that draw stares from half the world every 
time they are opened, and a stance a bit taller than a door stop wedge. I 
know that the stainless is cool, but it doesn't make the car b/c my car is 
red and I still receive every bit of recognition found by other owners. It is 
a mixture of things. But saying that the car has no story went too far and 
needed to be addressed.

John Weaver
ETDOC
RED DMC #10527


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:27:25 -0500
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: 17XXX VIN's

The only documentation that I have seen on these cars says that 150 were
produced. I will see if I can dig that up again and scan it and upload it
somewhere...

The 240 km/h speedo is NOT a true indicator of a Canadian-spec car. Too many
have been sold to others over the years - I think Stian Birkeland has one in
his car that we sold him. The throttle spool cover was a recall that should
be on all cars after a late 1981 VIN. I have never seen the split indicator
lights on any cars except ones that are in the UK, and haven't seen any
reference to them in any of the documents here, either. The unleaded fuel
label should be in French, too, and we have thousands of those, too -
another easily changed item.

Barring the discovery of other documentation, the only true indicator I
think is the VIN, it has to be a 17XXX series.

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company




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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 16:37:22 -0500
From: "James Espey" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: FW: DeLorean: Stainless Steel Illusion Reprint

Via email today...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rich McCormack
> Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 4:06 PM
> To: james_at_dml_delorean.com
> Subject: DeLorean: Stainless Steel Illusion Reprint
> 
> 
> Mr. Espey--
> 
> Just a note to let you know that the possibility of a reprint of 
> "Stainless Steel Illusion" is very much alive.
> 
> After discussions with John Lamm, I have decided to commit the 
> necessary resources to reprint, but negotiations with the potential 
> distributor have been delayed the past several weeks because the 
> principal I am dealing with has been away. He is due back on Oct. 
> 14th and I expect to have a final decision no later than Nov. 1st.
> 
> If a reprint does go forward, we may decide to include an errata 
> correcting any significant factual errors which you have spotted over 
> the years, but that is the only addition contemplated.
> 
> I'll keep you posted on developments as they occur.



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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 22:27:01 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Clarification: minor wiring harness question (message #28613)

The Red/Orange lines to the headlight and hazard dash switches go to
the illumination bulbs inside those switches.

Apologies for any confusion.

Bill Robertson
#5939





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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 22:14:21 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Correction: Only running on five cylinders (message #28612)

Just re-read post. When I said move the upper air assembly "up and
forward" I meant "up and towards what is usually the front of an
engine." Obviously on these little cars you'd move it towards the rear
of the vehicle.

Apologies.

Bill Robertson
#5939





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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:57:09 -0400
From: "Willie Mack" <wmack_at_dml_vt.edu>
Subject: Fan Speed


When I first got my car, I had almost no variable fan speed.
I took the blower apart this summer and cleaned the contacts and now there is a clear distinction between speeds.  However, on the setting of 4  I still can't feel the two center vents on my face.  I can only feel the air about 6 inches away from the vents.  Is this normal?  Or should I probe further?

Thanks
  Willie Mack
  Vin 5043


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:04:10 -0400
From: "Hank Eskin" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Whoopeee, I Sure do Love my LockZilla


Open letter to Bob Zilla concerning my "Lockzilla" thread.

Bob,

  I did not intend to offend you or somehow imply that the LockZilla unit
was anything less than what it is, so I apologize if that's how you see it.
The post was posed as a question, not a fact or even an assertion.  I did
not post "LockZilla Sucks - don't buy it!".   My question was "Has anyone
else noticed a slight current drain with Lockzilla (with or without Remote),
or could I have a defective unit?"

  Based on my tests, my LockZilla unit (and remote) is drawing 30mA from the
battery.  When I disconnect it, I get a Zero mA reading.  I had no other
devices connected at that time that would draw any current (no radio, no
clock, no lights, etc).  I had tested every circuit/fuse to see where
current was being drawn, and only the lockzilla was drawing current from the
battery.  I'm certainly not in a position to argue with you over
electronics, but I'm confident in my testing and results.  I'm also
confident that if I disconnected the LockZilla, my battery would stay
charged for the one to four weeks or more between start-ups.  This is why I
posted as a problem with LZ - as a question.  I wanted to know if anyone
else had similar problems or issues with mysterious current drains in the
car.

It's just my opinion, but I don't agree that requiring a battery shut-off
switch as a viable solution to a device that drains the battery.   I also
didn't pull LZ out of my car.  My solution was to build a battery isolator
to power my radio memory when the main battery shuts down.  Now everything
works without any intervention - even with a battery drain. (Thanks, Rick!)

> I'm also surprised ( and I see it often ), how some owners of Zilla
Products
> will post the list to ask questions about their unit rather than email me.

I did email you recently concerning an LZ issue that I spoke to you about in
Memphis and received no reply.  I didn't know if or when you would respond,
and I wanted to finish my project so I posted to the DML.  I knew that the
DML would provide assistance in an open and helpful fashion.  It's just as
likely that someone could have responded "Yes, that current draw is way to
high - you might have a defective unit" or "No, that's entirely normal, so
your problem is somewhere else - keep looking."  I was just trying to narrow
down the scope of my search, and many, many people on the DML know so much
more than me, I felt it was a valid question (I also don't see how the
moderators were at fault for allowing it.)

> Would a new owner know that it's been in production for 10 years with a
> perfect operational record ?

No, but I still tell everyone I know to buy LZ and FZ if they haven't
already.  One short thread on the DML isn't going to scare away as many
people as you think, and if they read the thread, they will understand the
issue.

> Now, to answer the question that started the twisted thread:

> Personally, I think it sounds like it's time for a new battery.

It's less than a year old.

> How much current does LockZilla draw in standby mode ?
> 13 ma Typical.

My LZ unit with remote pulls 30ma.  Is this normal and within specs?

For the record, I am happy with all the Zilla products I own - I was just
trying to solve a problem.

Finally, I'm not here to make any enemies, so I have no issue if you want to
petition the moderators to delete that entire thread if you feel it does
injustice.

-Hank







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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:15:57 -0400
From: "Hank Eskin" <henry_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Re: minor wiring harness question

> Red/Orange: From "RO junction" 
> Red/Orange: To clock
> Red/Orange: To headlight switch (bulb)
> Red/Orange: To hazard switch (bulb)

Ok, so this is the funny part (why I didn't notice anything wrong):

My clock has been removed (a digital voltmeter is in it's place).
My Headlight switch is currently being rebuilt by John Harvey.
My Hazard switch was mysteriously dark the other night - now I know why.

thanks!

-Hank



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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 02:59:04 -0000
From: "Adam" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Manifold heat stove...

I was wrong about the vibration sound: its back, exactly the same as 
before I removed the heat stove. John thinks it may be a motor mount, 
I will check it out tomorrow. 

Adam 



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Adam" <acprice1_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> Well I tore off my manifold heat stove today. I was getting an 
> annoying vibration sound during acceleration around 2500 rpms from 
> the passenger side engine bay. When i checked the stove today it 
was 
> extremely loose and rusty. The little bolts holding it on broke off 
> when i tried to remove them. Anyway, the buzz noise seems to be 
gone.
> 
> Also while I was down there I noticed that the exhaust manifold is 
> missing a nut.. dammit.
> 
> Adam




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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 03:02:13 -0000
From: "Adam" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 17000 series

I thought it was the 83s that had exhaust tips.. My 83 has exhaust 
tips, as far as I know they are stock.

vin 16683

Adam


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Michael G. Fischer" <michael.fischer_at_dml_d...> 
wrote:
>   As a Canadian and owner of one the 'Canadian' D's .. I've been 
wondering
> about this for years;  but so far the information I've been able to 
find is
> almost nil;  since the 83's were never that well documented.
> 
....> 
> 83isms:
> -Flat Hood with DeLorean Logo
> -Straight Pipes: no exhaust tips
> -Throttle spool cover
> -ASI radio



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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 21:20:56 -0600
From: Mark Noeltner <mark_at_dml_buffalochips.org>
Subject: Re: Fan Speed

There is a rubber boot that connects the rear of those two center vents to
the main air duct behind the dash. Have you verified that the boot is
connected properly? I had this problem after a radio install and found that
the boot had slipped as I assembled it, and the boot itself was partially
blocking the vents.

Mark N
VIN 6820

At 09:57 PM 10/8/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>
>When I first got my car, I had almost no variable fan speed.
>I took the blower apart this summer and cleaned the contacts and now there
is a clear distinction between speeds.  However, on the setting of 4  I
still can't feel the two center vents on my face.  I can only feel the air
about 6 inches away from the vents.  Is this normal?  Or should I probe
further?
>
>Thanks
>  Willie Mack
>  Vin 5043




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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 04:09:32 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle_at_dml_enteract.com>
Subject: Evansville Autofest Pics

I finally got the web page updated to cover the recent Evansville 
gathering. Take a look. 

http://www.dmcnews.com/events/evillmcc02/evansville.html

If your local/regional group has a get-together, feel free to send in 
pics of your event. Keep it simple. Instructions on the new "DMC 
Gatherings" page at

http://www.dmcnews.com/gatherings.html

Dave Swingle




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