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Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1239
Date: Thursday, October 17, 2002 2:41 AM

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There are 19 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: No Heat :hot water valve?
From: "content22207" <>

2. Re: HT Lead question
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>

3. RE: Re: SS Free Flow Exhaust (and photos)
From: "Chris Parnham" <>

4. Re: Re: SS Free Flow Exhaust (and photos)
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

5. Ironic here- Practical no where else
From: "treehouse2000us" <>

6. Re: Re: Heavey Cltch Pedal Pressure

7. Whoopeeee, LockZilla ( Part-2 )

8. I emailed Zilla, where'd he go ?

9. Re: Re: DeLorean financing
From: john fredt <>

10. Re: Performance parts

11. Re: HT Lead question
From: "Toby Peterson" <>

12. owners and enthisiasts in the Minneapolis area
From: "Matthew P. Olans" <>

13. RE: Fall Foliage Tour- Important info- please read!
From: "Kevin Abato" <>

14. Delorean Mid-Atlantic Fall Foliage Tour Final Itinerary and information
From: "Kevin Abato" <>

15. valve cover reassembly

16. the case of the unstable idle finally solved!

17. Fall Foilage Tour 2 way radio info
From: "turbodmc3113" <>

18. DMC found at original dealership! legal issues...
From: "Zack Maze" <>

19. Re: No Heat :hot water valve & wheel bearing
From: "Adam" <>

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:22:23 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Re: No Heat :hot water valve?

Sounds like your thermostat may be stuck open. Hoses to heater core
should be too hot to handle. The flap in the dash doesn't control
water -- only allows air to flow over heater core (a little radiator).

Do your big hoses get hot? If not, thermostat's definitely stuck.

Note that engine needs to be WARM to operate efficiently (that's why
thermostat's there rather than just a giant hose barb).

Bill Robertson


Message: 2
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:33:42 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>
Subject: Re: HT Lead question

The main reason for the shielded High Tension lead from the ignition 
coil to the distributer is to reduce any interference with the radio. 
Since the car is so small and everything is so close to each other 
(the ignition coil is close to the radio antennae and lead-in) you 
have to do everything you can to limit interference. Make sure your 
replacement wires don't generate interference. The origionals are made 
to suppress any interference but if you use "high performance" and 
they are solid core copper wires you may only hear the crackle of the 
ignition. The ignition wires can act like little antennaes 
transmitting pulses of high frequency interference. It is also 
suggested you run all of the ignition wires exactly as the origionals 
were run. Keep them separated and in the little holders as origionaly 
installed to prevent "crossfire". You should also at least inspect and 
regap the spark plugs.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "jamesrguk" <James_rg_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> Hi all, 
> I have just replaced my distributor cap and rotor and my HT leads. I 
> got them from a local motor store, so called `performance Hot-Wire 
> leads'. 


Message: 3
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:52:03 +0100
From: "Chris Parnham" <>
Subject: RE: Re: SS Free Flow Exhaust (and photos)

Rich,/ list

All of the info will be up on the exhaust website soon  and also on our club website when we gat a

 The car we used on the Dyno trials was my very low miles LHD 83 car,
recently brought back into use. The speedo was showing 135 MPH on the Dyno
( 170 one fitted) and with a car that had only done 111 miles from new, it
must have wondered what was happening to it!

The results are:-

Stock system...............120 BHP  ( only)

new system with twin cats  135 BHP

New system without cats    142 BHP

(  If you want me to send you the 3 graphs contact me direct at

This was on this one car, it may not be the same for all cars, no guarantees
Etc. Etc.

You should really talk to the manufacturer for prices, but the UK system is
650 GBP ( about) 950 dollars plus shipping and any taxes your end.

The twin cat system is about 920 GBP  (1350 dollars)  plus shipping and

Polishing is available at about another 75 dollars.

I must stress that we helped the manufacturer develop this system, We are
very happy with the results, especially the craftsmanship and finish of the
finished system,  but any dealings must be direct with him, and not through
the UK club. We have no financial or other interests this matter.

Best regards

Chris P  DOC UK

 BTW I would go with the "medium loud"  system, the very loud one is
probably illegal and certainly not restful!


Message: 4
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:58:10 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: Re: SS Free Flow Exhaust (and photos)

Hi Rich (and all)

Until I have the time to properly update the page on the DOC site, here are the results
of the dyno tests ("at the flywheel" figures)

Also here's a photo of the system with cats fitted:

I'd like to stress that some figures were obtained with fuel adjustments and removal of
the cold air intake valve - full text to come. The exhaust will not perform miracles....
but if you're going to play with cams, lightened flywheel, porting and polishing.....
then you won't get far without a free-flowing exhaust.

My observation of Chris' "medium" system is that it sounds very "european" as opposed to
the deep burbling of an american exhaust (like the Island turbo kit). It has a nice deep
throb at idle, but positively screams when revved.

#1458 (getting a new system)
#4426 (getting the old one off #1458!)

d_rex_2002 wrote:

> Martin, Chris and the whole UK group,
> If a picture is worth a thousand words, you guys should be able to
> write a novel about this new SS Free Flow Exhaust system.  While I
> did read that the system does not come with the polished appearance
> that is in the photos, it still looks like great SS craftsmanship.


Message: 5
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:27:22 -0000
From: "treehouse2000us" <>
Subject: Ironic here- Practical no where else

I thought this was funny.  Today I read the Wall Street Journal- Oct 
2002 Edition about Career Cutting Edges.  Here is a quote from the 

' For Mr. Piatti, paying attention to entertainment systems and other 
areas of driver comfort is eminently practical.  "Spending time in a 
sports car is like moving into a house with a low ceiling and small 
windows, its an oppressive environment," he says.  "Who wants that 
every day?" '

I ask the people on the list, Who wouldn't want that everyday?

Tom Porter
Vin: Mabye 16 miles away?

Ps.  Thanx for all the advice and procedures I recieved of how to 
start a car after setting for 10 or so years!  I appreciate it a 
termendous amount.


Message: 6
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:41:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: Heavey Cltch Pedal Pressure

Thanks Dave,
I've never had the opportunity to try another Delorean to see. The master cyl 
is new and so is the slave. Hydraulic line is steel and the pedal cluster is 
properly lubed. The car has only 21k but spent over 10 years sitting. You're 
probably right, time to tear out the clutch.
Thanks for you input.
Jim 6147

In a message dated 10/15/02 5:13:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:

<< The pedal pressure in a Delorean is not that much. Either you are 
 having a problem with your leg or there is a problem inside the 
 David Teitelbaum
 vin 10757 >>


Message: 7
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:43:54 EDT
Subject: Whoopeeee, LockZilla ( Part-2 )

Dear Hank,

You somehow got the impression I was upset at the content of your post or any 
other post in the original thread. No. Not at all. 
I was just disturbed by the Title "Problem with LockZilla".

Not everyone reads every post. 
My point was simply, someone new & unfamiliar with LockZilla sees a load of 
posts with this title and thinks there's something inherently wrong with the 
That's my point.

As for your battery.....
Now you put your finger on it. 
If I recall, you mentioned the battery was 1 year old.
Normally, it wouldn't pose a problem with other batteries but,,,,
Sears has now managed to design a battery with a hyper sensitive cutoff. 
Please see my earlier comment:
" as a general rule all batteries suck "

Sounds like ( with the best of intentions) Sears has made a fair battery 
It would seem that this IS NOT the best choice for a DeLorean Battery.

At this point, nearly ANYTHING you add to your car that requires supervision 
is likely to cause your Sears Battery 
( with cutoff ) to automatically "switch off". 
Perhaps this is just an oddball case and is not representative behavior of 
all Sears batteries of this model. 
However, nearly any other quality battery would probably last at least 2 more 
years before becoming a nuisance in one way or another.
Personally, I would put a more "normal" battery in the car.

If you would like to peruse this further, email me directly.

Bob Zilla

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:43:59 EDT
Subject: I emailed Zilla, where'd he go ?

Hank mentioned that he emailed me and got NO response......
Hank is now the second person to mention this.

Email is NO LONGER what it once was.
Spam now rules. 
I typically receive 50 Junk emails a day.
If I don't get to my email for a few days it is easy to become buried in Spam 
If you ( or anyone else ) don't include the word Zilla ( or some other 
recognizable word ) in the title, it might possibly look like Spam and get 
passed over.

I answer ALL emails. 
It's just getting harder every day to sort them out from the EVER increasing 

This is true for the FAX machine too. It got so bad that I now unplug the 
machine unless I am expecting a FAX. 
Sad but true.

Bob Zilla

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 9
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:44:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: john fredt <>
Subject: Re: Re: DeLorean financing

What do you mean? The car has no current functional problems of any kind the fuel system and cooling systems have recently been replaced and the electricals all function except for the passenger door which I know will cost about 250.00 for a new motor if I cant service it myself which I probably will be able to do.I have alot of exp with electrical motors and systems and anything I cant fix my friend can who repairs all kinds of electric devices and I do mean ALL kinds.The body of this paticular delorean is in excellent condition since it was never driven on salty roads (spent all its life in florida) the only damage a panel I mentioned is very small and I was planning on letting it go till the car is paid for.If it does come to it I will store the car in my fathers garage till I have the money to pay for developed problems.The interior has been replaced granted its probably not original delorean spec (it doesnt look it)but It is in nice condition.I can paint the plastic stuff myself  which is no big deal.what repairs came out to 5000 and 3200 dollars did you do those repairs yourself?I talked with the seller who is a delorean owner himself and he told me the engine parts are readily available since it is a very standard engine,or I can switch it out with a chevy engine which is even more available.Did you rack up those big bills at a mechanic?Actually the price of deloreans is climbing if you havent noticed and there are less in circulation every year collectors are slowly but surely tucking them away beyond reach.Please tell me your thoughts on this thanks!

 stupadazzo2002 - wrote:

Heh, well, it sounds as if you're about to get what you deserve for 
NOT waiting. You'll pay dearly (from the pocketbook in the long-run) 
for hurrying into this deal. But... I can only say this. I know for 
a fact that you will NOT understand what I mean for maybe another 
year or so when it all catches up with you. So I don't expect you to 
understand at this point.

When it comes to DeLoreans you DEFINETELY get what you pay for. 
You'd be better off waiting and finding one that is in much better 
condition. Trust me there's tons of them out there for sale in much 
better condition than what you're describing. And there'll still be 
many, many out there whwen you can better afford it.



Message: 10
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:48:11 EDT
Subject: Re: Performance parts

In a message dated 10/15/02 5:07:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:

<< 20% from exhaust modification?  Do you have dynomometer graphs available? 

20% is approx 26 hp extra. I got almost 10 from going to EFI. And from what 
I've seen I tend to believe that the PRV in the DMC-12 is exhaust bound. With 
the cat out of the way and a free flowing exhaust I'd be willing to bet you'd 
see a substantial increase. If you send me a system I'll dyno it for free... 
:-)   But I probably wouldn't want to send it back.

Jim 6147


Message: 11
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:53:58 -0000
From: "Toby Peterson" <>
Subject: Re: HT Lead question

James - The normal reason why there would be a braided steel sleeve 
over a coil wire, or other HT lead, would be for shielding to prevent 
EMI in the radio.  This basically turns the HT lead into a coaxial 
cable similar to television cable.  (BTW : EMI = Electro-Magnetic 
Interference).  If the new wires were manufactured with proper 
internal shielding, the extra sleeve is not required.  I personally 
use plug and coil wires that have a multi-strand metallic core for the 
primary conductor (no resistance at all), and then they have a braided 
stainless steel sleeve surrounding an insulation layer to provide the 
EMI protection.  "Radio Suppression Wire" uses a composite conductor 
with some natural resistance to provide the EMI protection.  I never 
liked the idea of thousands of ohms of resistance in a spark plug 

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248


Message: 12
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:30:36 -0700
From: "Matthew P. Olans" <>
Subject: owners and enthisiasts in the Minneapolis area

Hey all,
        I am in Minneapolis doing some work at the airport for the next few
days.  If anyone would like to get together on Wednesday night for dinner
I'm around and will be open.  drop me a line at or give
me a call at 732-319-1144.

Take care,
VIN #16816
VIN #10365


Message: 13
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:55:36 -0400
From: "Kevin Abato" <>
Subject: RE: Fall Foliage Tour- Important info- please read!

Best advice to anyone else attending....AVOID RT 202/206 in Bedminster!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Abato [] 
Subject: RE: [DML] Fall Foliage Tour- Important info- please read!

If any members are going to this event, and are coming from northern NJ
or NY (Rt 80), I would be more then happy to meet up with you NORTH on
Rt 206 (in Chester) and help you drive a route to avoid the traffic jam
that day down near lamington Rd in Peapack/Lammington. 


Message: 14
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:53:55 -0400
From: "Kevin Abato" <>
Subject: Delorean Mid-Atlantic Fall Foliage Tour Final Itinerary and information

Hi everyone!
We have been hard at work putting together the final touches on the Fall
Foliage Tour III for the Delorean Mid-Atlantic Club for this weekend,
and we now have it all set in stone (if there is such a thing!)
All the details can be viewed on our web site
Please note:  The full itinerary is posted, as well as .PDF documents of
the two drives we will be doing for the weekend.
Remember....this is the last chance to be a part of history!  The
Delorean estate is now sold to Donald trump, and this will be the last
time we will have this many cars on the estate before it is developed by
Mr... Trump!
Hope to see you all there!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 15
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:04:06 EDT
Subject: valve cover reassembly

hey all,

in the not-so-distant future i will be taking my valve covers off for a valve 
adjustment.  i already have new gaskets from Grady, but i was wondering what 
the best way to clean the mating surfaces is in order to make sure i get a 
good clean fit again.  i see my valve covers were last reassembled with red 
silicone.  Grady said silicone is unnecessary, just the new rigid paper 
gaskets will do.  what is the best way to remove the old silicone, and do i 
need to have the valve covers machined or anything? i doubt it but i'd like 
to know before i take them off.  not only that but i want to get my covers 
glassbeaded and painted to match my newly painted intake manifold.  will this 
have any impact on the way the valve cover seals or any type of compression 

1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 16
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:16:29 EDT
Subject: the case of the unstable idle finally solved!

Hey all,

at long last i am pleased to report that i have solved the mystery of why my 
car never wants to settle down at idle!!  the problem i have had for over a 
year is that when my car is warmed up, it always liked to fluctuate between 
500 and 1000 RPM, always wavering back and forth, never staying still like a 
normal car should.  i replaced lots of original parts including the whole 
ignition system plus ignition coil, getting the fuel system evaluated and 
adjusted by grady, playing with the throttle linkage, etc etc.  nothing 
seemed to work.  i finally had the ignition timing checked again and this 
time after some investigation it was found that my car was suffering from a 
pre-advance condition at idle, which according to the shop manual shouldn't 
be happening.  when we checked around we found that the ignition vacuum 
canister which is located directly behind the fuel distributer was not 
operating correctly.  it was causing the ignition advance solenoid to 
energize prematurely causing the off-timing effect at idle.  this is 
something i never would have suspected or discovered if the timing hadn't 
been checked!!  we found that when we disconnected the middle vaccum line to 
the canister and plugged it, the car returned to normal timing at idle and 
the idle stabilized!! it was a beautiful sound!!  today i got a new canister 
from Grady and installed it and VOILA! problem solved.  

now i just need to get my mixture checked again cuz i swear i am still 
running a little rich...

anyway, if your car seems to be perfect except for the idle never wanting to 
stabilize, you might try this test to see if your canister is broken too.  
just one more thing to check!!

1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 17
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 03:43:48 -0000
From: "turbodmc3113" <>
Subject: Fall Foilage Tour 2 way radio info

Anyone who participated in any of the previous Fall Tours knows both 
the importance and fun of having two way radios when caravaning and 
trying to keep the group together.

On the first fall tour, I chose channel 12 as the one to use because 
we are driving the DMC-12.I found that this channel has caught on as 
the DeLorean channel at subsequent events.

If you are not familiar with the two-way radios, they are the 14 
channel family FM radios available in any electronics store, K Mart, 
Wall Mart Etc. The price has come down so much that you can some 
times pick them up for $20 a set or even less.

I encourage every one to bring, buy or borrow these radios for the 
trip (if you have an extra one please bring it, put your return 
address label on it to identify it if you want).

IMPORTANT NOTE: This year for the 3rd annual fall tour we will be 
using channel 3.

Please set your radio to channel 3 so you can communicate with us!

Now I know DeLorean people well enough to know some of them are going 
to say "but I like channel 12, why can't we use channel12?". 

For those people who need an explanation, here it is and why you have 
to use channels 3 this year.

Some of the people on the tour this year were talked into buying the 
expensive $150.00 radios with all the great electronic features and 
bells and whistles and extra power (you only have to spend $10 like I 
said). Well the expensive fancy pants radios can only talk to the 
cheap radios on channel 1-7. So we will be using channel 3.
These $150 radios really are excellent and built extremely well and 
out perform the cheap ones hands down. We all know the type of people 
who only want the best electronics and will settle for nothing less 
but I'm not going to rat the guy out who is responsible for all
this,even if Bob Zilla doesn't show up for my fall tour again.

Use channel 3, have a safe trip and I will see you there!


Mike D.


Message: 18
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:17:39 -0700
From: "Zack Maze" <>
Subject: DMC found at original dealership! legal issues...

one of my favorite things about the DML is the diversity of the
people that subscribe to it.

...lets see if this can work to my advantage.

okay... here goes.

I live on the big island of Hawaii, Kona side. on the other side
of the island lies what used to be 1 of 2 Delorean dealerships in
the islands, and theyve got 1 DMC left.

This particular DMC was brought in for repairs in the mid to late
80's. i have no idea what work was done to it, but i know it was
going to take a long time. seeing as how the repairs would be time
consuming, the dealership lent the man thier demo car... a black
interior, 5speed, TT, loaded with all the dealer option goodies
you could choose from.

he ran thier demo car into a sugar cane truck, completely
totalling it.

once the insurance settlement was done and over with, and the
Delorean he had brought into the shop earlier for repairs was
complete, he had run into financial troubles and had no way of
paying for the repairs.

solution? turn the newly repaired DMC over to the dealership,
title and all. unfortunatley, the car has been sitting in the same
spot for 12 years, as the dealership cant legally do anything with
it. the car has a "lean" on it from the IRS (something like that.
im running off my memory here)

ive talked with the dealership's owner several times and he would
give the car to me if her could. he "wants that hunk of metal off
the lot as soon as possible", but theres nothing he can do due to
the "lean".

he doesnt know who to talk to about removing the lean on the car.
im praying and hoping here that one of you could let me know what
to do, who to talk to, where to start, ANYTHING would be

if i didnt make sense, you would like to know more, or just want
to chat, please feel free to e-mail me.

oh yeah!
so the car that has been sitting forever that ive got my eye on is
an 81' w hood lines and gas flap, 5 speed, grey interior, 15k
miles, and the original goodyear NCT's (not like they are of any
use, but just cool to mention).  vin#3152

the car was newly repaired and running perfectly last it was
driven, which makes things just that much sadder...

im still battling with myself, trying to decide what to do with
the car if i get it.  im definitely leaning towards frame off
restoration, even if it will cost me more in the end than buying
an already pristine DMC.  its for the love of the marque, and the
history of the car.

hey... thanks for reading this mess, and im looking forward to
your responses!


"New cars have no soul..."


Message: 19
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:52:38 -0000
From: "Adam" <>
Subject: Re: No Heat :hot water valve & wheel bearing

So I got my new right rear wheel bearing installed yesterday. The car 
still makes the same wobble sound that it did before... Sounds like 
it is coming from the rear right. I can at least rule out the 
bearing. I had my CV joints done at a shop that "does deloreans all 
the time" about 9 months ago. These are the same guys which i have 
boycotted for returning hte car to me with more problems. Maybe they 
messed up the joints some how.

How do I check the final drive fluid? Could the transmission make a 
sort of wobble sound if it is having low fluid or other issues?



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