From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1266
Date: Thursday, November 07, 2002 6:54 AM

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There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>

2. RE: Re: Wiring diagram
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

3. Re: Re: Wiring diagram
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

4. Re: Non Starting problem
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

5. Re: Red-glowing cat!
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

6. Re: Re: Wiring diagram
From: john fredt <hecklerkochgmbh_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Re: Re: Non Starting problem
From: Phil Priestley <phil_at_dml_alessandros120.com>

8. Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

9. Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine
From: "James LaLonde" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>

10. Re: DeLoreans Magazine (paper toy)
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

11. RE: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>

12. RE: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <kenm_at_dml_csus.edu>

13. Re: annoying misfire
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

14. Re: Non Starting problem
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

15. Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine
From: "Payne" <bpayne_at_dml_macnet.com>

16. Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine
From: "reuterconsulting" <reuterconsulting_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine
From: "James LaLonde" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>

18. Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine
From: Todd Masinelli <tmasin_at_dml_madisontelco.com>

19. Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine
From: "William F. Lane" <blane_at_dml_triad.rr.com>

20. Re: Wiring diagram
From: "Classified" <vegascop1_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:20:59 -0500
From: "Marc A. Levy" <malevy_at_dml_paramanet.com>
Subject: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine

This year at the Fall Foliage Tour something happened that I was not comfortable with.

The magazine for DMCH was distributed at the event even though there are some people there that objected, myself included.  From what I understand, James sent a box of magazines to one of our members with instructions to distribute it. I have no issue with the member who did this because at the time, it seemed like no big deal.

DMCH has never supported or attended one of our events while others like Rob and Deb Grady of P.J. Grady and Ken and Chris Koncelik of the DeLorean Car Show come and physically support what we are doing.  Their presence is enough and they always support us any way that they can.

With no support for DeLorean Midatlantic or any of the local events in this area, DMCH made use of our event to promote their magazine, and in turn their business. 

In the same disrespect for us, DeLoreans magazine printed on page 24 of the Summer 2002 issue a DeLorean paper toy.  Their claim is "we never pass up on the strange little tidbits of DeLorean oddities we come across."  They do admit it is not their original work but, yet they do not credit the DML for supplying them with the source of this material (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/message/25770) or, the source themselves  (http://papertoys.com/delorean.htm).  I will assume that the publisher of DeLoreans did get proper permission to reprint this drawing, so I will make no judgments about copyright (heck, I don't even know if papertoys holds the copyright!).  However, it is in bad taste to not give credit to the originator (was it papertoys.com, or someplace else?) of the drawing and to further modify it to remove the "plug" for the source

I admit, I may be looking to see the next issue.  I am curious as to Stephen's discussion on "the players and pretenders in the DeLorean hobby".  I did not know he was the authority on the subject.

Is it really necessary to turn the DeLorean hobby in to something so commercial?  I'm greedy too, but DMCH is taking it TOO far... and taking the fun out of it.

How do the DeLorean Owners feel about this???



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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 07:54:24 -0600
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Wiring diagram

BobZilla has nice PDF file that can be printed out quite large at Kinko's.
Another benefit is money from the schematic goes to the MJ Fox foundation
for the disease research.

-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Johnson [mailto:dmcboy1der_at_dml_hotpop.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:05 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Wiring diagram


The full size wiring diagrams are sold by the DeLorean Store. WWW
Deloreanstore.com They are poster sized, and come with the separate legend.
They are not expensive, and are very nicely enlarged.

Trevor Johnson
AIM- Veedub Zephyr

-------Original Message-------

From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:04:40 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Wiring diagram

Hopefully John Hervey won't mind (they ARE on his website)...

Two nice JPG's:

http://www.specialtauto.com/images/wiringdiag2.jpg
http://www.specialtauto.com/images/wiringlegend.jpg

You'll need a picture viewer to zoom in.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Classified" <vegascop1_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I need the full version, full size wiring diagram for the D. Please
> let me know where I can buy one or pay to get it re-printed in full
> size, more than happy to pay for your troubles.
>
> thnx,
>
> Ski VIN 4649



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.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:02:01 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Wiring diagram

Trevor and Group. I now have soft laminated wiring diagrams free with a set 
of books or separate. They are 11x17 doublesided. They will roll up easy 
because they are not to stiff.  It also comes with some updates I have done 
for parts not shown and some that are labeled wrong. It's on the site at. 
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/other.shtml

<< The full size wiring diagrams are sold by the DeLorean Store. WWW
 Deloreanstore.com They are poster sized, and come with the separate legend.
 They are not expensive, and are very nicely enlarged. 
  
 Trevor Johnson
 AIM- Veedub Zephyr >>



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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:11:15 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Non Starting problem

Assuming all of the things you did to the car you did correctly it is 
no surprise that when you tried to "fix it up" it won't run. The 
adjustments were all out of whack to get the motor running the way it 
was. There are more things to do. Make SURE you fixed all of the 
vacuum leaks. Make sure there is a plug over the mixture screw on the 
fuel distributer. Check that at idle the throttle spool activates the 
idle micro and that the idle system is functioning. Check that the 
throttle plates are closed at idle. All 3 brass screws should be 
lightly seated closed. If after all this you may have to fuss with the 
mixture screw. Try no more than 1/4 turn, less is better as this is a 
very sensitive adjustment and should only be done with an analyzer but 
to get it to idle you need to move it a little so you can actually 
idle the motor for testing. Also the lambda should be running. Do you 
hear a loud buzzing from the frquency valve on the right valve cover? 
If not you need to get that running so it will idle. The most frequent 
problem there is a bad relay or fuse. There are a lot of other reasons 
why it won't idle like timming, blown head gasket, valve adjustments 
etc, but I have to assume the engine is mechanically healthy and it is 
just a matter of setting up the adjustments to get it running 
correctly.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "vin2105" <phil_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> When I recently aquired my D, I found a whole list of  things that
> needed changed or replaced. I changed the plug wires, cap and rotor 
,
> found several split vacuum hoses, the O ring under the fuel
> distributor was shot, the plugs were gapped at .040 and a lot of 
other
> things that i suspect contributed to the rough idle. The two Idle
> adjustment screws were opened up most of the way.
> 
>  Now that these things have been replaced/repaired. I can't get the
> thing to stay running. When you turn the key, It fires up and as 
soon
> as it settles down to idle it dies or if it does run, runs rough and
> dies if you step on the throttle. 
> 
> It ran in spite of all the things that were wrong before, now it 
won't
> run. Any Ideas???




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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:46:17 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Red-glowing cat!

This post is "dead on" about how your converter started glowing. If 
you didn't drive it too much and distort the converter it should be 
OK. What causes them to go bad is that the bed of platinum inside gets 
so distorted that the gases leak around it. The other problem is that 
if too much raw hydocarbons get into the converter, especially when 
cold, they don't burn completly and "soot up" the converter plugging 
it up. Replace the ignition wires immediatly and you should be 
alright. If that doesn't work you may also have to replace the 
distributer cap and rotor. A bad fuel injector can also cause this but 
since you say it happened right after having the car washed it is more 
likely to be an ignition problem.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...> wrote:
> You said the magic word: "wash"! Don't worry, you've just got a bit 
of water 
> down in the sparkplug wells. Water creates electrical path, so the 
spark is 
> weak because most of the charge never reaches the plug, thus fuel is 
not 
> completely burned, and the Catalytic Converter overheats due to 
eating up 
> the raw hydrocarbons.
> 
> To fix, just pull the boots, and blow out the water with some 
compressed air, or 
> a straw. Just in case too, a hair dryer never hurts either. Daub a 
bit of that 
> spark plug conductive goop on, and replace the boots back onto the 
plugs. 
> But make sure that the boots themselves seat fully onto wells. If 
not, water 
> gets in, and will cause this exact problem. And of course, this is 
also why you 
> want to use wires meant for the PRV block. They're designed to keep 
water 
> out by having those boots installed. In anycase, all of this is in 
the archives of 
> anyone would like more details.
> 
> One thing I don't know about though is if you'll have to replace the 
cat. I don't 
> don't know just how much "damage" it can take. If not melted, it 
could just 
> simply get clogged. I've seen gas additives in the store that claim 
to clean out 
> cats of excess deposites, but I'm still scratching my head as to 
just how in the 
> world they work.... In any case, if you're concerned about it, 
perhaps it's time to 
> check up on local regulations, and see about replacing that cat w/a 
straight 
> pipe anyways...
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"
> 
> 
> 





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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:39:27 -0800 (PST)
From: john fredt <hecklerkochgmbh_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Wiring diagram


 
could someone on the list point me toward the manual transmission gear oil drain and fill plugs.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:49:57 -0800
From: Phil Priestley <phil_at_dml_alessandros120.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Non Starting problem

I'm pretty sure that I have all the vacuum leaks stopped as I replaced 
the hoses one at a time so the routing would be correct. The plug is in 
place over the mixture screw on the fuel distributor and the butterfly 
is closed on idle and the microswitch is working or at least is 
activated when in idle position. I think the former owner bypassed the 
lambda system but I'm not real sure on that. The fuel frequency valve 
is buzzing and I double checked the fuel line routing.
I'll  change all the fuses before I play with it again.
On Wednesday, November 6, 2002, at 08:11 AM, jtrealtywebspannet wrote:

> Assuming all of the things you did to the car you did correctly it is
> no surprise that when you tried to "fix it up" it won't run. The
> adjustments were all out of whack to get the motor running the way it
> was. There are more things to do. Make SURE you fixed all of the
> vacuum leaks. Make sure there is a plug over the mixture screw on the
> fuel distributer. Check that at idle the throttle spool activates the
> idle micro and that the idle system is functioning. Check that the
> throttle plates are closed at idle. All 3 brass screws should be
> lightly seated closed. If after all this you may have to fuss with the
> mixture screw. Try no more than 1/4 turn, less is better as this is a
> very sensitive adjustment and should only be done with an analyzer but
> to get it to idle you need to move it a little so you can actually
> idle the motor for testing. Also the lambda should be running. Do you
> hear a loud buzzing from the frquency valve on the right valve cover?
> If not you need to get that running so it will idle. The most frequent
> problem there is a bad relay or fuse. There are a lot of other reasons
> why it won't idle like timming, blown head gasket, valve adjustments
> etc, but I have to assume the engine is mechanically healthy and it is
> just a matter of setting up the adjustments to get it running
> correctly.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
>
>
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "vin2105" <phil_at_dml_a...> wrote:
>> When I recently aquired my D, I found a whole list of  things that
>> needed changed or replaced. I changed the plug wires, cap and rotor
> ,
>> found several split vacuum hoses, the O ring under the fuel
>> distributor was shot, the plugs were gapped at .040 and a lot of
> other
>> things that i suspect contributed to the rough idle. The two Idle
>> adjustment screws were opened up most of the way.
>>
>>  Now that these things have been replaced/repaired. I can't get the
>> thing to stay running. When you turn the key, It fires up and as
> soon
>> as it settles down to idle it dies or if it does run, runs rough and
>> dies if you step on the throttle.
>>
>> It ran in spite of all the things that were wrong before, now it
> won't
>> run. Any Ideas???
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:57:52 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine

Is "DeLoreans" a DeLorean magazine, or an advertisement for DMC Houston? The distinction is important.

Do you consider distributing free copies of an otherwise chargeable magazine "supporting" the event or self-promotion?

I'm curious as to what makes a DeLorean "player" or "pretender" too...

Martin
#1458 - Almost ready for the NEC this weekend!
#4426 - engine (what's left of it) now removed, lots of bits on the way from the US.

"Marc A. Levy" wrote:

> How do the DeLorean Owners feel about this???




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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:08:32 -0000
From: "James LaLonde" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine

Yes- DMCH is too commercial.

Grady is member *of* the community.
DMCH only delivers *to* the community.

Grady will listen to a problem and help you solve it then send you 
what you need to do so.
All DMCH does is take my part order and ship it - regardless of 
whether or not it's the right part.

However Grady doesn't have a 190hp engine being produced in mass. Nor 
could they ever hope to remanufacture certain rarer items - like 
Houston may be planning to do. (torsion bars, Stainless Steal 
Illusion, new side stripe variations, car covers etc)
DMCH serves it's purpose. I believe both are the best at what they 
do. And what PJ Grady does is provide service to DeLoreans and 
Delorean Owners. Houston sells DeLorean Stuff.

But at least they aren't DeLoreanOne

James LaLonde 001697




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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:49:01 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: DeLoreans Magazine (paper toy)

Not sure if DMCH needs to "credit" the DML regarding the paper toy.

The Delorean paper toy has been around for more than six months
and may in fact have been out for more than a year by now.  I know
the DML was not how I first found out about it and, therefore, it 
may not have been how DMCH originally found out about it either.

Although I do remember Marc's post about the Delorean paper toy back
in May 2002, the Delorean paper toy was on the paper toy website at
least 6 - 7 months earlier, since I first heard about it from Tamir
in an email back in November 2001, many months before a DML post.

I'm not sure if someone emailed Tamir earlier about its existance,
but I know Tamir gets a lot of pre-release info about many things
Delorean related.  I remember hearing about Rick G's twin engine
Delorean way before it's debut in Memphis.  Because of his premier
website of all things Delorean, Tamir does seem to get the scoop
on many things Delorean before the rest of the general public.

-----------------------------------
To: Rich 
Subject: DeLorean paper cut out

Pretty cool stuff.  Enjoy.
-----------------------------------
This paper cutout gift link was sent to you by a visitor to 
PaperToys.com.

The link to your paper cut-out toy is:
http://papertoys.com/toy.php?no=2173

This gift was sent by:  Tamir
Sent at:                 Mon, 26 Nov 2001, 14:21:50

The gift was sent to:   Rich

If you were sent this in error, please report this immediately to 
signups_at_dml_papertoys.com 
-----------------------------------

I do not know or wish to comment about the permission status of
printing the Delorean paper toy, but I did want to make sure that
other readers of the DML know that the Delorean paper toy has been
"out there" for a while and maybe for a year or more.

My nephews enjoyed cutting them out (with rounded tip scissors)
and putting them on top of the SunStar cars they got last Xmas.

Later,
Rich W.


> snip <
> 
> In the same disrespect for us, DeLoreans magazine printed on page 24 
of the Summer 2002 issue a DeLorean paper toy.  Their claim is "we 
never pass up on the strange little tidbits of DeLorean oddities we 
come across."  They do admit it is not their original work but, yet 
they do not credit the DML for supplying them with the source of this 
material (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/message/25770) or, the 
source themselves  (http://papertoys.com/delorean.htm).  I will assume 
that the publisher of DeLoreans did get proper permission to reprint 
this drawing, so I will make no judgments about copyright (heck, I 
don't even know if papertoys holds the copyright!).  However, it is in 
bad taste to not give credit to the originator (was it papertoys.com, 
or someplace else?) of the drawing and to further modify it to remove 
the "plug" for the source
> 
> snip <




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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:05:46 -0600
From: "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine

Mark-
You are upset because people in your group got a free color magazine with
helpful tips and (admittedly more than a few) ads? You are upset that
someone distributed them instead of them flying halfway across the continent
to give it away themselves?
I really don't understand your problem with the situation. I don't mean to
start a flame war, but I don't see anything wrong in that.

James-
You are upset because DMCH isn't part of YOUR (or insert other) community
more? Let me guess, you are also upset that they charge money for this,
that, or charge too much?\

Hello... they are a business. Just like Grady. Does Grady contribute to
California events? No-- it's not in his economic interest. Should DMC
Houston be a member of the Mid ATLANTIC club? It's not really feasible to
be. But I have noticed that they are involved in quite a few regional
groups-- trailering their cars across country to them, IIRC.

Dang, guys. It seems that you beating them up doing exactly what you wanted:
getting involved in your regional club by giving away color magazines. So
they weren't there in person. Buy them a ticket next time.

BTW-
I do not work for or with DMCH, I do not invest all of my Delorean money
there either. I spread it around between practically all the vendors (D1 is
the only exclusion). And I live within forty miles of DMCH. A good portion
of it goes to them, of course, because they are my local vendor. But Herv's
got stuff I want, Grady has stuff I want.... I've been planning to go to
Darryl for something but keep putting it off. Same with Midwest club. I
guess Joe and Garden grove service center are the only ones left out-- and
not on purpose. Both Joe and Don are great guys-- so very helpful.

-Kevin





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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:36:17 -0800
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <kenm_at_dml_csus.edu>
Subject: RE: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine

> Hello... they are a business. Just like Grady. Does Grady 
> contribute to
> California events? No-- it's not in his economic interest. Should DMC
> Houston be a member of the Mid ATLANTIC club? It's not really 

Actually, Rob flew out 2 weeks after 9/11 to participate (and contribute
raffle prizes) in the 2001 West Coast DeLorean Car Show. He even acted as a
judge for the show. Go to the NCDMC website to see for yourself..

Also helping us on the show was Don Steger of the DeLorean Motor Center,
Stephen Winn and James Espey from DMCH, and I got a lot of help from a few
of the DeLorean Owners Association board members. Even Ed B. attended. A
true first!

Our group works to support all of the DeLorean community. There's no reason
to draw lines in the sand. 

Ken

=======================================================
Ken Montgomery	Sacramento, CA  VIN #10911  'OUTTIME'
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/montkw/delorean/index.htm
mailto:kenm_at_dml_csus.edu
President, Northern California DeLorean Motor Club
http://www.ncdmc.org
Keeper of the International DeLorean Owners Directory
http://www.dmcnews.com  mailto:owners_at_dml_dmcnews.com
=======================================================



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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:31:03 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: annoying misfire

James, You are probably correct on the injectors and the mis firing. I do 
have a cleaning system set up now on the site to clean them if new ones 
aren't in the budget. The other part of the problem could be the system 
pressure or the control pressure. In other words, are the injectors getting 
enough pressure to open them properly.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com
. 

<< Hi all,
 
 I am still having an annoying misfire, I am pretty sure it down to an 
 injector that is passed it's sell by date, as it is not spraying very 
 nicely. 
 
 To my knowledge the spray pattern on a mechanical injection system is 
 more crucial than on an EFI system because the valves are not always 
 open at the point of injection.
 
 I am fairly sure the misfire is fuel related for the following 
 reasons:
 
 1) My timing light suggests that all plugs are sparking
 2) All plugs are less then 8 months old. 
 3) 2 of the injectors are new, 4 are 2nd user but appeared to be 
 clean and ok when 1st installed approx. 10 months ago, and the engine 
 has run fine until recently.
 4) All of my HT leads are new as well as the cap and rotor arm.
 
 Anyway my question is really why are the injectors getting blocked?, 
 have I just been unlucky?
 I have a new fuel pump, clean tank, and a filter on the fuel pickup 
 and had the main fuel filter change about 10 months ago.
 
 Any ideas?
 
 
 James RG
  >>



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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:47:50 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Non Starting problem

Phil, Two things to check. 
#1 Is the connection on the top of the idle speed motor good and tight. Is it 
getting power and opening the valve when the throttle is in the rest position.
#2. Since it sounds like it's choking down. Turn the bottom idle screw clock 
to open up the throttle body butterflies a little more and then see what 
happens. 
Be sure to not flood the car by trying to keep on cranking it. If need be, 
unplug the cold start valve and try it again.    
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com


<<  Now that these things have been replaced/repaired. I can't get the
 thing to stay running. When you turn the key, It fires up and as soon
 as it settles down to idle it dies or if it does run, runs rough and
 dies if you step on the throttle. 
  >>



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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:24:11 -0800
From: "Payne" <bpayne_at_dml_macnet.com>
Subject: Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine

> I admit, I may be looking to see the next issue.  I am curious as to
Stephen's discussion on "the players and pretenders in the DeLorean hobby".
I did not know he was the authority on the subject.
>
> Is it really necessary to turn the DeLorean hobby in to something so
commercial?  I'm greedy too, but DMCH is taking it TOO far... and taking the
fun out of it.
>
> How do the DeLorean Owners feel about this???
>

Over my years of being a DeLorean fan and finally an owner, I've read many
opinion pieces about the DeLorean hobby.  Some put down owners like me who
drive and use thier car every day, and others speak lowly of enthusiasts who
spend thousands of dollars keeping their car pristine and undriven.  I have
to accept that everybody has their opinion and right to state it no matter
what I believe.

In Stephen Wynne's letter on page six of the latest issue, his main topic is
the availability of original equipment or better parts for the DeLorean, and
why you should want to use the best.  Throughout the magazine they stress
how they want 100% original parts availability.  I think his "players and
pretenders" will give the high and low points of using their original parts
versus general stuff you find at your local parts house.  This is probably
to promote thier own sales, but it is for the benefit of the company.  I'll
wait and read it before I judge.  It may even be good for new owners.

Are they getting too commercial?  Perhaps, however I cannot fault them for
this as the more money they make the more improvements they will be able to
make for our cars.  They can put whatever advertisements that promote their
business they like as long as they keep with the good content.  I've
certainly seen more product pushing in other magazines, and at least DMCH
included ones that relate to the subject material.  I was particularly happy
with this issue because of what it contained.  The detailed walkthrough with
photos on how to replace your window regulator was most appreciated.  My
friend just broke mine and I'm looking at replacing it myself.  (note to
passengers:  Do not roll window up while arm is sticking out.  I shouldn't
have to tell you this)

payne







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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 01:56:40 -0000
From: "reuterconsulting" <reuterconsulting_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine

Marc (and the "others" insulted) what is your problem???  It's crap 
written like this that makes me delete my daily e-mail of this groups 
discussions.  How obsurd!!!  James went out of his way and obsorbed 
the cost of the magazines to give your little group something 
Delorean related and you throw it back in his face.  Grow up!  We 
should only be fortunate that there actually is a DMCH.  How many 
other owners of collector cars can say that they have this kind of 
resource.  We should all be ashamed of ourselves if we truly believe 
that we are too good for any free Delorean stuff.  $10 bet says you 
still took a copy!




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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 02:17:42 -0000
From: "James LaLonde" <deloreandmcxii_at_dml_excite.com>
Subject: Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine

Some clarification for you Kevin.

If you noticed I complimented DMCH as much as Grady.
DMC houston is(or will soon be) a better vendor of DeLorean Parts 
than PJ Grady. Grady has the stuff they need to repair DeLoreans.

Houston has added 60 horsepower the car. I believe that to be as much 
of an accomplishment as the Zilla parts Grady endorses and thier 
pistons.
As a vendor, Houston is the best of the big three (Grady, Houston, 
and D-One...what i consider the big three).
However as a repair facility and DeLorean SERVICE center (not only 
servicing the cars but the people) Grady contributes more. They are 
nicer and attend what appears to me to be more shows (granted, I'm 
not yet a part of the show circuit).

I never complained about how much they charge. For the most part they 
are identical to Grady. I appreciate Grady's customer service and the 
feeling that I get from everyone who works there that says "I give a 
rats behind about this wonderful car and it's owners." As far as 
prices I believe if you can find it from a smaller vender it'll be 
cheaper (Hervey!). And anything to Avoid DeLoreanOne.

I like both DMCH and Grady. I like Grady more personally. I was 
merely noting that DMCH is more commercial. For better or for worse, 
they play 'the game' more.

Somehow I enjoy the minor politics that come into play in the 
DeLorean world. This vendor-that vender-or debates on what is or 
isn't 'sacrilidge' to the car. It's fun.
Maybe I'm wierd... Maybe we're all wierd.. Look at the cars we drive!

-James LaLonde 
(you can spell DeLorean with the letters in my last name. mwahahaha) 
001697  




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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:05:45 -0600
From: Todd Masinelli <tmasin_at_dml_madisontelco.com>
Subject: Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine

> How do the DeLorean Owners feel about this???

If we're talking about the nature of "deloreans" magazine, I can't
understand why some folks keep bringing up its commercial nature as if it
was some sort of revelation.  The last copy of the magazine I received had
the following words printed on the cover:  "the official publication of
DeLorean Motor Company."  Not "an impartial look at the DeLorean ownership
experience that gives equal consideration to all vendors and their
respective products."  If you want that, maybe you'll get it when one or
both of the upcoming D magazines is launched.  But to look for it from a
publication from a vendor -- *any* vendor -- seems silly.

If sending free copies of a publication that normally costs money is the
issue at hand, then I guess I'm still not seeing the problem here.  I was
not offended when Randal Brown handed out free 3M products in Memphis.
Should I have been?

As for DMC Texas not sending a representative to the Mid-Atlantic club
event, many of the posts I've seen on the DML give me the impression that
some would consider them unwelcome guests anyway.  Call me skeptical, but I
find it hard to believe that those who fire barbs at others in a public
forum would really miss their presence at a social gathering.

To the point that DMC Texas is "taking the fun out of" the DeLorean hobby,
I'll have to disagree.  The politics of the DeLorean community is what's
taking the fun out of ownership for me.  Some enterprising soul needs to
print up a score card so I can keep track of who's against who anymore (and
please be sure to include me if I've made any enemies with this post).

For what it's worth the last two times I've attended club events in Illinois
I've seen representatives from DMC Texas.  James Espey and Bill Morgan came
up last year with the black car, and this year James and Stephen Wynne were
there.  Did they have parts to sell?  Sure.  Good thing, too, since I
discovered once I arrived that my original transmission pan gasket had given
out at some point on the trip and I was leaking trans fluid all over the
place.  (For you conspiracy theorists out there, it would be an awful lot of
trouble for James to go through to sabotage my car so I'd have to buy a $9
replacement part from him.)

__________________
Todd Masinelli
VIN 6681 (Nov '81)





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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:31:00 -0800
From: "William F. Lane" <blane_at_dml_triad.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fall Tour & DeLoreans Magazine

 (Moderator's note: This is the last message in the queue tonight. I'm going to end this thread with it as I think the vast majority of us on the list agree that we're fortunate to have an assortment of Delorean vendors and, while we have our loyalties, we really need to value AND patronise them all.) 


Marc,

I have read some of your posts on the DML and the Forum.  It appears to 
me that you aren't happy or content with anything!  I'm not trying to 
flame you but for goodness sake GET a LIFE!  DMCH is a business.  They 
are there not only because of their love of the DeLorean but it is their 
chosen way to make a living.  If it weren't for DMCH, Rob and Debbie, 
Darryl, Don, John, Joe and all the other vendors, yes even DeLorean One, 
where would we be?  It's ok to disagree but I don't think your 
negativitism is healthy for the DeLorean Marquee, the DML or the 
DeLorean Forum.  If you want to see Houston's magazine become bigger and 
better, try submitting an article or two.  You might be suprised.

Again, this is not a flame but quit your bitchin'.  Everyone doesn't 
feel as you do!

Bill Lane
#3635




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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 04:21:41 -0000
From: "Classified" <vegascop1_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wiring diagram

Thnx for all your help!! I should have checked the DMC store first in 
the first place and yes I ordered one for $15. 
Thnx again,
SKI VIN 4649

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "K Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> BobZilla has nice PDF file that can be printed out quite large at 
Kinko's.
> Another benefit is money from the schematic goes to the MJ Fox 
foundation
> for the disease research.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trevor Johnson [mailto:dmcboy1der_at_dml_h...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:05 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_y...
> Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Wiring diagram
> 
> 
> The full size wiring diagrams are sold by the DeLorean Store. WWW
> Deloreanstore.com They are poster sized, and come with the separate 
legend.
> They are not expensive, and are very nicely enlarged.
> 
> Trevor Johnson
> AIM- Veedub Zephyr
> 
> -------Original Message-------
> 
> From: dmcnews_at_dml_y...
> Date: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:04:40 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_y...
> Subject: [DML] Re: Wiring diagram
> 
> Hopefully John Hervey won't mind (they ARE on his website)...
> 
> Two nice JPG's:
> 
> http://www.specialtauto.com/images/wiringdiag2.jpg
> http://www.specialtauto.com/images/wiringlegend.jpg
> 
> You'll need a picture viewer to zoom in.
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 
> >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Classified" <vegascop1_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I need the full version, full size wiring diagram for the D. 
Please
> > let me know where I can buy one or pay to get it re-printed in 
full
> > size, more than happy to pay for your troubles.
> >
> > thnx,
> >
> > Ski VIN 4649
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please 
address:
> moderators_at_dml_d...
> 
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> 
> 
> .
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please 
address:
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> 
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