From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1275
Date: Friday, November 15, 2002 6:15 AM

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There are 13 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Rough idle
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

2. Re: Rough idle
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. Re: Rough idle
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

4. trouble starting in wet weather
From: "Adam" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>

5. driver fender for sale
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. Re: 1697 -- free advice can be worth what you pay
From: "ksgrimsr" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>

7. Fiber glass underbody availability (was 1697)
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

8. RE: trouble starting in wet weather
From: "mgutkowski_at_dml_cix.co.uk" <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

9. Re: trouble starting in wet weather
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

10. Re: trouble starting in wet weather
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>

11. Re: steering column bushing replacement
From: darryl_at_dml_techline.com

12. rear axle bearing noise
From: darryl_at_dml_techline.com

13. body bolts
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:31:18 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Rough idle

Brandon, More than likely it's injectors. They to get clogged up. I can run 
them through if you wish or send you some to try that have been cleaned.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com

<< My car has developed a rough idle that has been most annoying.  It sits
 around 850 RPMs, and I know my idle speed motor is working.  When it's at
 this engine speed, it almost sounds like a distant helicopter.  By that I'm
 assuming it's not firing correctly on one cylinder at idle.  It doesn't feel
 like a completely dead cylinder, as when I'm driving it has all the power it
 used to.  I can rev it up and the engine sounds very smooth and quiet.
 
 The injectors open by pressure, correct?  Hypothetically, if I had a
 partially clogged one, would the pressure put through it at idle be low
 enough so it wouldn't open?  I heard a while back of someone having this
 same problem.  I do have all new plugs and wires, so my next area to look is
 the fuel system.  The car feels great on the road, I just wish the idle
 wasn't so shaky.
 
 Thank you all!
 
 payne
  >>



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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:50:46 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Rough idle

For a smooth idle you need to have all of the cylinders balanced very 
close to each other. That means compression, spark plug gap, valve 
adjustment, injectors, etc. After you are sure all of the mechanical 
parts are good then you can begin to attack the control systems. Rule 
out vacuum leaks, timming, bad ignition wires. On the injectors it is 
not so much a plugged up on as it is a dirty one. Dirt will cause a 
bad spray pattern and low holding pressure. They will have to be 
removed and tested to make sure they aren't the problem.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Payne" <bpayne_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> My car has developed a rough idle that has been most annoying.  It 
sits
> around 850 RPMs, and I know my idle speed motor is working.  When 
it's at
> this engine speed, it almost sounds like a distant helicopter.  By 
that I'm
> assuming it's not firing correctly on one cylinder at idle.  It 
doesn't feel
> like a completely dead cylinder, as when I'm driving it has all the 
power it
> used to.  I can rev it up and the engine sounds very smooth and 
quiet.
> 
> The injectors open by pressure, correct?  Hypothetically, if I had a
> partially clogged one, would the pressure put through it at idle be 
low
> enough so it wouldn't open?  I heard a while back of someone having 
this
> same problem.  I do have all new plugs and wires, so my next area to 
look is
> the fuel system.  The car feels great on the road, I just wish the 
idle
> wasn't so shaky.
> 
> Thank you all!
> 
> payne




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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:11:31 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Rough idle

Sounds like you may still fighting that vacuum leak. Vacuum leaks show
their worst at idle or low rpms. Vacuum drops at speed so leak would
be less noticeable.

"Distant helicopter"? Could one of your spark plugs have come loose
from the head? Missing spark plug makes a "poop poop" noise.

Weren't you idling _at_dml_ 1,400 a couple of days ago? How'd you get rpms
back to normal?

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Payne" <bpayne_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> My car has developed a rough idle that has been most annoying.  It sits
> around 850 RPMs, and I know my idle speed motor is working.  When
it's at
> this engine speed, it almost sounds like a distant helicopter.  By
that I'm
> assuming it's not firing correctly on one cylinder at idle.  It
doesn't feel
> like a completely dead cylinder, as when I'm driving it has all the
power it
> used to.  I can rev it up and the engine sounds very smooth and quiet.
> 
> The injectors open by pressure, correct?  Hypothetically, if I had a
> partially clogged one, would the pressure put through it at idle be low
> enough so it wouldn't open?  I heard a while back of someone having this
> same problem.  I do have all new plugs and wires, so my next area to
look is
> the fuel system.  The car feels great on the road, I just wish the idle
> wasn't so shaky.
> 
> Thank you all!
> 
> payne




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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:48:45 -0000
From: "Adam" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: trouble starting in wet weather

My car has a lot of trouble starting after it has been parked in the 
rain. It eventually starts and idles rough then chugs until I guess 
the moisture  is dissipated. I am assuming that moisture is getting 
into the distributer. When I do my tune-up, i plan to seal the 
distributer with high temp silicon sealant and prepare the inside 
with wire-dry and/or wd40. 

Could any of the things I plan to do to the distributer cause other 
problems??

thanks,
Adam




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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:10:49 -0000
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: driver fender for sale

If anyone is interested, i have a drivers front fender for sale.  
It's in perfect condition.  Please follow the link to see/read more.

http://216.167.99.38/partSale/index.cfm?id=10&drill=detail

If you would like more info or pics, please let me know.

Thanks

Erik
04512




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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:04:21 -0000
From: "ksgrimsr" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>
Subject: Re: 1697 -- free advice can be worth what you pay

I just wanted to point out that free advice is sometimes worth 
exactly what you pay for it. I have been especially surprised at the 
abundance of free advice regarding VIN 1697 and its unfortunate 
demise.

It is truly amazing that so many on the list have the skills required 
to determine what is involved in repairing the wreck based on a half-
dozen exterior photos. I suspect that many of the postings on this 
thread are baseless wild speculation provided in some cases by folks 
that may never have undertaken the repair in question. I remind DML 
readers to gauge the credibility of the sources as part of 
determining the value of the advice provided on this list.

Further posts on this topic telling James what he should do will be 
dropped. Postings on this topic tell James HOW to do something will 
be welcome. For example, posting indicating where he can get X, Y, Z, 
or how he can determine FOO are fine. Postings blindly decreeing that 
the car is perfectly repairable and should be fixed at any cost will 
be considered opinion rather than helpful information.

   Knut (speaking for myself only)





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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:23:15 +0100
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: Fiber glass underbody availability (was 1697)

[NOTE: The subject of this posting was updated to better reflect the content of the message]

Hi James,

sorry what happened to you and 1697. That's really the worst nightmare I
could imagine to happen to me and 6548.

The reason why I am writing you - Adrian Roth (adriandmc(at)aol.com ) of
Delorean Club Germany has several fiber glass bodys lying around which could
serve you to repair 1697.

I guess you will find them also in the states, but I just wanted you to
know, that there are parts to fix the body. Get her back on the road !

Regards

Elvis & 6548




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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:24:52 -0500
From: "mgutkowski_at_dml_cix.co.uk" <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: RE: trouble starting in wet weather

If it's a brand new cap and rotor, I wouldn't bother with anything other
than making sure it's dry when you put it on. I've had the same problem as
you and discovered that a hairdryer on the dizzy cap for 10 seconds made it
fire first time. 

I will be changing my HT leads, rotor arm and cap in the near future, and
one thing I will make sure is I have wired up the relay that bypasses half
the coil ballast resistor to give the coil an extra nudge when cranking
(John Hervey has the wiring diagram correction on his website). I'm sure
this hasn't helped my situation and might be worth checking on yours.

Martin
#1458
#4426

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Adam acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com



My car has a lot of trouble starting after it has been parked in the 
rain. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .





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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:55:31 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: trouble starting in wet weather

While it could certainly be the distributer cap I would be more 
inclined to consider the ignition wires. If water gets into the spark 
plug wells because the wires are old, improperly installed or wrong it 
would cause these symptoms. If these parts are old or you don't know 
just replace all of them and while you are at it either replace the 
spark plugs or at least remove, clean, regap, and reinstall them. You 
don't need to seal the distributer or spray it with anything, it will 
just make it more messy to replace in the future.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Adam" <acprice1_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> My car has a lot of trouble starting after it has been parked in the 
> rain. It eventually starts and idles rough then chugs until I guess 
> the moisture  is dissipated. I am assuming that moisture is getting 
> into the distributer. When I do my tune-up, i plan to seal the 
> distributer with high temp silicon sealant and prepare the inside 
> with wire-dry and/or wd40. 
> 
> Could any of the things I plan to do to the distributer cause other 
> problems??
> 
> thanks,
> Adam




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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:53:04 -0000
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>
Subject: Re: trouble starting in wet weather

Subject Re trouble starting in wet weather

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Adam" <acprice1_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> My car has a lot of trouble starting after it has been parked in 
the 
> rain. It eventually starts and idles rough then chugs until I guess 
> the moisture  is dissipated. I am assuming that moisture is getting 
> into the distributer. When I do my tune-up, i plan to seal the 
> distributer with high temp silicon sealant and prepare the inside 
> with wire-dry and/or wd40. 
> 
> Could any of the things I plan to do to the distributer cause other 
> problems??
> 
> thanks,
> Adam

Hi Adam,
Nothing you're planning sounds terribly bad, though I must confess I 
don't know what "wire-dry" is. If it's flammable, you might hold off 
starting the car until it evaporates. I'm inclined to think wd-40 in 
the distributor might do more harm than good. If "wire-dry" is 
similar to the sprays used in the electronics industry to remove 
water, neither it nor WD-40 will seal out water after the fact.

More importantly, it may be that moisture is grounding out the 
ignition pulses at the spark plugs, instead of the distributor as you 
suspect.  Either place is plausible.  You can find out where the 
trouble is, if it's caused by moisture, by deliberately inducing the 
trouble on a dry day using a spray bottle with water, and spraying 
the distributor, and the sparkplug insulators with water one at a 
time, with plenty of time between squirts.  It's an old trick.  I 
wish I had invented it, it's that good.

Good luck.

Rick Gendreau  11472




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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:32:37 -0800 (PST)
From: darryl_at_dml_techline.com
Subject: Re: steering column bushing replacement

Richard, you will find complete instructions are with the new bushing I just 
mailed to you.  Its not that difficult - remove the two bolts that hold the 
steering column to the dash, remove the bolt where the top u-joint in the 
intermediate shaft meets the column (after marking the position of the u-joint 
relative to the column shaft), disconnect the two wiring plugs where the column 
wires plug into the under-dash harness, and pull the column out toward the 
seat.  The new bushing will probably have to be driven into place with a piece 
of wood like a cut-off broom handle or large dowel.  Examine the expanded metal 
outer column for breaks, which are common, and repair (weld) as necessary.  
When replacing the column, you may need to wedge something through the outer 
column to keep the inner one from collapsing as it is supposed to do in a 
wreck - I use long nose vise grips.  Match the alignment you marked on the u-
joint when re-assembling.  Its about a 1 hour job, best done with help as its 
difficult to align the marks and get the shaft into the u-joint while putting 
the column back in (but I have done it alone several times).



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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:27:27 -0800 (PST)
From: darryl_at_dml_techline.com
Subject: rear axle bearing noise

I thought I might relate a tale that shows even those of us who have been doing 
this stuff for nearly 17 years occasionally screw up.  After finally getting 
BLWNAWY back on the road with its new forged blower pistons, I was hurrying to 
get her ready for the 200 mile drive to a PNDC tech session.  I loaded up my 
usual supply of parts for potential sales and fired it up, only to have it die 
after 5 seconds repeatedly.  Assuming it was out of gas - I was going to 
install a new DMCH fuel guage sender at the tech session - I tried that but it 
didn't help.  After some head scratching I finally fixed a loose wire on the 
main relay, and was off.  Two miles away it dawned on me I had forgotten the 
new fuel senders so doubled back home, but also picked up a disturbing new 
sound.  Even coasting backward out of my driveway the sound was there.  Since I 
have had a bunch of calls lately for new rear axle bearings, I was convinced it 
was my turn for that problem.  So I parked the car, and already quite late 
cancelled out on the tech session and went to plan B - a junk yard trip for 
parts for my current restoration of a GMC Jimmy.  When I finally got time to 
tackle the bad bearing, I gathered up the necessary parts, tools, jack, and 
jack stands, and headed for the shop.  After jacking up the rear end, but 
thankfully before tearing into the axle assembly, I made an embarassing 
discovery.  The bearing was fine, but the RH emergency brake cable was dragging 
on the ground.  My last maintenance effort was installation of Toby TABs and 
braided stainless brake hoses, which was a frustratingly long project due to 
the fact that the old TABs were frozen in place.  After hacksawing off the old 
bolts, removing the trailing arms, drilling out the old bolts, fighting the old 
brake hoses out of their sockets, and installing all of the new parts, I had 
forgotten one last step - fastening the RH brake cable securely in place.  So 
just remember, sometimes those strange noises you hear might actually be 
something you failed to finish up correctly on your last repair.  To paraphrase 
the old carpenter's saying, check it twice and fix it once.

Darryl Tinnerstet
Specialty Automotive
McCleary, WA



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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:36:01 -0600
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>
Subject: body bolts

what type of bolts are people using to hold the SS body panels to the car? i am asking
for a friend that is restoring his delorean. somebody told him that stainless bolts were
not strong enough.

mark




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