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Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1322
Date: Sunday, December 29, 2002 4:20 AM

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There are 7 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Rene Grieder.....where are you?
From: "supremeadmiralsenn <>" <>

2. Re: Re: Red Hot Exhaust / Melted Catalytic Converter
From: "content22207 <>" <>

3. Re: lock cylinder issues
From: "David Teitelbaum <>" <>

4. don steger's front kick speakers - need help

5. RE: Re: Re: Red Hot Exhaust / Melted Catalytic Converter
From: "IN2TIME" <>

6. Re: Red Hot Exhaust / Melted Catalytic Converter
From: "Harold McElraft <>" <>

7. RE: Re: lock cylinder issues
From: "K Creason" <>

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 22:58:27 -0000
From: "supremeadmiralsenn <>" <>
Subject: Rene Grieder.....where are you?

If anyone knows Rene Grieder...I tried to respond to his ad for a 
delorean for sale....but his email won't accept anything i send to 
him...Please, anyone who knows of a working email for him please 
rpely...thank you.


Message: 2
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 01:03:10 -0000
From: "content22207 <>" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Red Hot Exhaust / Melted Catalytic Converter

Oh boy -- test driving a new modem in my friend's computer just in
time for a disagreement...

Lean fuel mixtures burn hotter than rich ones. What do you do to
increase temperature of a welding torch? Increase the oxygen. What
happens when you put too much LP to your grill? The flame turns orange
(cool). You'll know when you have unburned fuel in the exhaust system
by the inevitable muffler fart or explosion, depending on amount (this
is what happens on loose engines that continue to rotate briefly after
ignition is turned off).

BTW: my cat melted when the fuel pickup was totally stopped up -- an
ultimate lean condition.

And yes, my firefighter friend just confirmed you can indeed put out a
fire with LIQUID gasoline (it's the oxygenated vapors that burn).

Bill Robertson

PS: After further conversation w/ fire department buddy, better example of
lean vs. rich fuel mixture would be soldering torch. Only variable w/
plumber's torch is propane (uses outside atmosphere for oxygen just
like a car). Welder's torch is a closed system.


>--- In, "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_w...>"
<jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> A glowing catalytic converter is a sign of an over-rich condition with 
> unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust. When these unburned hydrocarbons 
> enter the catalytic converter (which under normal conditions runs 
> 1200-1500 degrees) they burn which causes the temperature of the 
> coverter to go over 2000 degrees. It can get hot enough to fuse the 
> matrix of platinum pellets and stainless gratings which can cause the 
> converter to become "plugged up" or restrict the flow of exhaust 
> gases. This is most noticeable as a lack of power at high RPM's.
>  Besides an out of adjustment fuel system one of the more common 
> causes is a misfiring cylinder caused by a bad ignition wire or spark 
> plug. Since the fuel isn't consumed in the cylinder it gets into the 
> exhaust where it burns inside the catalytic converter. Short periods 
> of this don't always cause permanant damage. Over longer times it will 
> distort the exhaust system, damage the catalytic converter, 
> contaminate the O2 sensor, melt nearby plastic and fiberglass, and 
> possibly set the car on fire. Fuel cools, at least unless it is being 
> oxidized! I wouldn't try putting out a fire by throwing cool fuel on 
> it!!!!! 
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> --- In, "content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_c...>" 
> <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> > Am on Xmas vacation, so this is first time I've seen list all 
> week...
> > 
> > It is indeed possible to melt the guts of a honeycomb style 
> catalytic
> > converter. Not sure why (stuff has consistency of ceramic), but I 
> did
> > so when my car ran too LEAN (remember guys: fuel cools. Until Martin
> > G's PRV man diagnosed my re-tuned, hence over-advanced engine -- 
> still
> > getting used to life without a carburetor -- was so rich I could
> > actually hold exhaust tips in my hands). Telltale sign of stopped up
> > converter is glowing exhaust AFTER the the thing. I think it's heat
> > from added resistance.
> > 
> > Do you live in an area with emissions testing? You'd be amazed how
> > much restriction a converter puts on exhaust flow. And even when
> > properly functioning is unreasonably hot.
> > 
> > Bill Robertson
> > #5939


Message: 3
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 05:09:20 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum <>" <>
Subject: Re: lock cylinder issues

The door lock cylinder is usually the first to go. A "quick and dirty" 
fix is to switch the door lock cylinders from driver's door to 
passenger door. If you have the older 2 key system just get some new 1 
key system locks and upgrade (expensive). Another option could also be 
a Lockzilla Remote. This way you don't have to use the key to unlock 
the doors anymore unless the battery goes dead. In the meantime try to 
use the key that is the least worn origional, copies are no good and 
wear too fast. Go to a lock supply or an auto store and get some 
graphite dust, it comes in a small squeeze tube. Spray some into the 
lock and some on the key and work it in and out. That should help a 
little but if you can put the key in and it doesn't go in straight the 
insides of the lock are worn out. Lubricating ALL of the locks on the 
car is a good idea at least once in a while. Don't forget the ignition 
lock and the "vault" behind the driver's seat.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In, "Adam <acprice1_at_dml_h...>" <acprice1_at_dml_h...> 
> My drivers side lock cylinder is messed up somehow. The key used to 
> go in and out perfectly, but last weekend I found that it resists 
> entry and then trys to hold the key in. I have to jiggle it around 
> while pushing or pulling to get it to work. Anyone dealt with this 
> before?
> thanks,
> Adam


Message: 4
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 10:21:50 EST
Subject: don steger's front kick speakers - need help

Hey all,

i recently purchased a pair of Don Steger's (delorean motor center) front 
kick speakers but i can't figure out which way they go when you mount the pod 
(orientation).  seems to me they could go a couple differernt ways but i'm 
sure there's only one way intended.  i would of course call Don up but it's 
the weekend and i wanted to install them now!!

if anyone has these and can send a really quick pic showing which way to 
mount them, i would be very appreciative!

1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 5
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 15:31:45 -0800
From: "IN2TIME" <>
Subject: RE: Re: Re: Red Hot Exhaust / Melted Catalytic Converter

<SNIP> And yes, my firefighter friend just confirmed you can indeed put
out a fire with LIQUID gasoline (it's the oxygenated vapors that burn).

You can put out a match by dumping a cup of gasoline, but what do you
think would happen if you tossed a cup of gasoline onto a cherry red
catalytic converter? (Don't try this at home kiddies:-)  

What the firefighter explained, is exactly why the converter melts down.
The unburned gas is vaporized, oxygenated by the catalyst, burned, and
overheats the catalytic converter.

The "experts" agree that excessive unburned/raw fuel entering catalytic
converters is the primary cause of catalyst meltdown.



Message: 6
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 19:16:07 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft <>" <>
Subject: Re: Red Hot Exhaust / Melted Catalytic Converter


You're guessing. Fact is, RICH will burn up the cat. Try it. Put the 
warm up regulator connection on the cold start valve and keep the 
car runing for a while - and watch the cat glow. Dave knows what he 
is talking about!

Harold McElraft - 3354

PS - I would be suspect that your cat was burned up BEFORE the lean 
problem occurred.


Message: 7
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 13:23:57 -0600
From: "K Creason" <>
Subject: RE: Re: lock cylinder issues

>In the meantime try to use the key that is the least worn origional,
> copies are no good and wear too fast.

I can cut a brand new key from code, too; to exact dimensions. The problem,
though, is some cars do not have a code or the right code listed in the
driver's door above the headliner. The code will be five digit number
between 7,000 and 9,999.
This is for anyone interested, email me offlist dmc4687(at)
If you don't have that number, then we are out of luck. I can try to decode
from a worn key, but that MAY get expensive shipping blanks back and forth
until we get it right. For $20 I will send you two keys (US destinations).
They are not rubber head replicas, though I have considered buying some for
this purpose (if in stock). That would add like $16 per replica cut.



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