From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 860
Date: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 12:07 PM

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There are 11 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Drive train and cooling system problems
From: "DMC Joe" <>

2. Re: black leather stats.
From: "DMC Joe" <>

3. Re: Re: Front Suspension Mod's
From: "DMC Joe" <>

4. Re: door strut (up or down?)
From: "funkymcfly" <>

5. New Poll: Interior Color?
From: "dmcjohn" <>

6. Re: Hand-Brake
From: "DMC Joe" <>

7. Re: URL request
From: "Walter Coe" <>

8. Re: black leather stats.
From: "Walter Coe" <>

9. Re: Fuel pressure at the injectors?
From: "Walter Coe" <>

10. Re: URL request
From: "dmc6960" <>

11. A/C panel light modification
From: Watkins Family <>

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 02:33:24 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Drive train and cooling system problems

You asked:
>"Engine temp stays just below the lower hash mark (any idea what the actual
temp of that mark is?)"

The first mark from the bottom 100 degree line is 200 F.

You also asked:
 >" more question.  From the top of the recovery bottle a
>3/4" hose comes off and goes toward the back of the engine.  As near as I
>can tell, a "T" routes this hose into the engine and routes the second hose
>under the car to disappear behind a large metal plate.  There also appears
>to be another hose entering the same location but I did not trace that one.
>I assume this is to the heater core.  Is this true?  Is this something I
>replace w/o disassembling the car?  Parts manual was useless to me here so
>guess I missed something.<"

The hose you are asking about is an air bleed hose and connects to the
heater core and LH water jacket via the "T" fitting you described.

DeLorean Help
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Garbade" <>
To: <>
Cc: <>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 8:25 AM
Subject: [DML] Drive train and cooling system problems

> Drove the care on a 250 mile short trip this past weekend and everything
> fine.  Engine temp stays just below the lower hash mark (any idea what the
> actual temp of that mark is?) and it performed


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 03:35:59 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: black leather stats.


We have a 5 speed with black interior for sale at our facility, very nice;
contact me directly for details.

DeLorean Help

----- Original Message -----
From: "dmcjohn" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 12:07 PM
Subject: [DML] black leather stats.

> Hi group,
> I'm currently looking for a 5 speed DeLorean with black leather, year
doesn't matter.

> Thanks,
> John.


Message: 3
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 03:43:19 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Front Suspension Mod's

Not of great importance but the failed lower link discussed at the SEDOC
Cruise-In was from John Jordan's car, not Tom Long.

DeLorean Help

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Coe" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Front Suspension Mod's

>At the SEDOC event last September, we had a slide show.  Included >were
photos of Tom Long's lower control arm that failed under >normal use.
> Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:35:27 -0000
From: "funkymcfly" <>
Subject: Re: door strut (up or down?)

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., Mike Hirko <mikehirko_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> Check out the link that Mike Babb provided for the cover of
> the July '77 Car & Driver magazine. It clearly shows the
> struts. Want to bet that it came from the factory that way?

Well... no, it's not even a production car :o)

Ex-Vin#5641 -


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 12:46:04 -0000
From: "dmcjohn" <>
Subject: New Poll: Interior Color?

Hi group,

I set up a new poll as a follow on to my question yesterday - "Which 
interior is nicest - black leather or gray leather?". 

Please go to

and choose your favourite!

John Dore.


Message: 6
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 03:37:16 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: Re: Hand-Brake

If the following information does not solve your parking brake problem
contact me for more details.
Parking Brake Adjustment:

DeLorean Help
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Salsbury" <>
To: <>; <>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 10:40 AM
Subject: [DML] Hand-Brake

> Sigh.........
> After my full frame restoration, #6463 went for her first MOT in many
years... Now to say I was nervous was an understatement, However she did me
proud and sailed through the test.... Then stumbled and fell at the very
last of 45 Checks, THE HAND BRAKE. Reason for failure " Hand brake weak at
nearside and weaker at off side.


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:32:52 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: URL request


As a variation on the theme, I have seen a DeLorean with a wire wound
ceramic resistor in place of the jumper.  The purpose was to dim the lights
a little so that it wouldn't cook the a/c bezel even at night.  I don't
remember the specs of the resistor.  Has anyone else seen this?

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 8
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:10:40 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: black leather stats.

> I've noticed an unusual (and annoying for me!) trend, that
> there are very few 5 speeds for sale with black leather out there.


Being the owner of a black interior automatic, I have some things to say
that you might like to know:

The only parts of the car that are leather are the top surfaces of the
seats.  The rest of the seats and interior are vinyl.

There are two configurations of door pull-straps on DeLoreans.  On '81
models, these straps have a D-ring.  The end of the strap is threaded
through the grab handle and then through the D-ring which holds it on.  On
later models, the strap was relocated to a point further back through a slot
cut into the door panel.  I consider this later configuration more desirable
for two reasons: 1) When closing the door from the inside, it lines the
pulling force up between the hinges better making sure that the door doesn't
close with a twist.  2) It saves the interior grab handle from being torn
apart by the earlier style D-ring strap.

When I bought my car with only 8600 miles on it, my grab handle had most of
the rubber torn off of it because of the strap.  This fact brings up two
important points concerning black interior cars: 1) The black grab handles
are made of a softer material than those used in gray interior cars and are
more subject to being destroyed by the friction of having a pull-strap
attached to it.  2) Black grab handles are as rare as hen's teeth
(particularly the drivers side).  The last one I saw on eBay went for over

Another problem concerning black interior cars is that the vinyl upholstery
shrinks with age even if stored predominately indoors.  This is also a
problem with gray vinyl, but to a lesser degree.  (This is my OPINION
considering the 30 or so DeLoreans that I had a chance to look at closely.
An experienced vendor might have another opinion.)  On my car, the
upholstery on both arm rests has shrunk and pulled away.  There is not
enough vinyl left for glue to hold it where it belongs.  There isn't even
enough vinyl to make it around the edge without stretching it.  The vinyl
covering the windshield posts has the same problem.  I've glued it before
only to have it pull loose again.  Otherwise the vinyl in my car is in like
new condition.  The fix I'm planning now is to hand-sew extensions to the
perimeter of the vinyl to give more surface to wrap under and glue.

Most people prefer gray interior because the black makes the car feel
closterphobic.  For show and collector cars, gray is easier to see and less
contrasty to photograph.  Personally, I like the black closterphobic feel so
much so that I even had my headliner done in black.  I consider my DeLorean
to be a comfortable piece of active sports wear having a hard stainless
exterior with a black interior lining.  While driving, I only want to be
aware of the road and have as little light as possible reflect from interior
surfaces.  So have I sold everyone on the idea of black yet? :)

My advice for you is to go on and buy a gray interior car.  There are plenty
available with cracked dashes & binnacles that need replacing anyway.  DMC
Houston is going to have reproduction dashes & binnacles available soon.  If
those are too pricey then you could recover the originals with vinyl.  When
done right, it looks at least as good as OEM.  The exception is that the
added seams around the binnacle match the seams on the center console which
to me looks just fine.  I think I've seen a photo of one done on John
Hervey's web site,

As for the rest of the interior, cover the seats with black lambskin or have
them reupholstered in black.  The door panels, knee pads & center console
are a simple matter to replace the vinyl.  The grab handles are just as well
left as gray.  More difficult to change would be the glove box lid and the
center console section around the window switches.  This could be recovered
or just left alone.  The headliner backings don't hold up too well anyway,
so you might as well buy PJ Grady's fiberglass replacements.  Have him cover
them in black.  The gray panels that cover the rear speakers can be covered
in black also.  Don't worry about reusing them for speakers because this is
a poor location for good sound.  I doubt that there are any OEM rear
speakers in existence that are still intact and working properly.  You will
probably want to relocate them to the rear parcel shelf anyway.  And the
shelf is easily recovered in black, too.  That just leaves the carpet which
on black interior cars is gray anyway, but a slightly darker shade than what
is used on gray interior cars  (same with the rear parcel shelf &
headliners).  I think DMC Houston is working on replacement carpets, too.
I've been following the Bricklin mailing list, and learned that some carpet
company is reproducing the form-fitted carpets for the Bricklin, so perhaps
they could be used to make reproductions for the DeLorean, too.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 9
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 10:25:33 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: Fuel pressure at the injectors?

> I cannot figure out why, with minimal air-plate
> deflection, not all of the injectors fire...but deflecting the plate
> further they all fire equally.
> Bad Injectors?  Faulty Fuel Dist.?

Since no one else has suggesting anything yet, I'll try to take a stab at
it.  With no deflection of the air sensor plate, there should be no fuel
flowing from the injectors.  So when you say minimal then define "minimal"
and also explain what kind of symptoms you are having with the way the
engine is running.  I have heard that shims are used under the plunger of
the fuel distributor for adjustment.  If you had shims in there before &
left them out, then perhaps there is now some slack between the air sensor
plate and the response of the fuel distributor.  Since you had the
distributor off, maybe moving the gasket (or is it an O-ring?) underneath
changed the height of the distributor which could have a similar effect.

Another possibility is that you could have gunk in the distributor.  Maybe
you should remove the plunger and soak the whole thing in Berrymans B12.
I've never tried anything like this, so maybe someone else can give some
better advice.  I do know that fuel distributors are made with a high degree
of precision.  If the plunger doesn't fit exactly right and slide freely
then you will have problems.  If when playing with the distributor you
managed to drop or scratch the plunger then you really have a problem.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 10
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:57:21 -0000
From: "dmc6960" <>
Subject: Re: URL request

Actually, if you put a standard 4-spade relay (without the normally 
closed contact) in the third slot where you would put the jumper, you 
can maintain the funtion of the red resistor two spaces over.  This 
allows the AC lights to only come on with the headlights, but while 
at the dimmed state.  These relays can be easily found at radio shack 
and look just like ours except they are black (if yours arn't 
already) and only have 4 spades.  It is perfectly safe to put this 
relay in that THIRD slot where they say to put the jumper.

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> As a variation on the theme, I have seen a DeLorean with a wire 
> ceramic resistor in place of the jumper.  The purpose was to dim 
the lights
> a little so that it wouldn't cook the a/c bezel even at night.  I 
> remember the specs of the resistor.  Has anyone else seen this?
> Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 11
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 11:40:29 -0500
From: Watkins Family <>
Subject: A/C panel light modification


Seems my site has started a thread of questions.   The wire jumper I
make has gotten it's blessing from 2 vendors who have seen it
installed.  I made one up for my first car back in the 80's and then
again for my 2nd car in 1997.

I decided that perhaps others may like a jumper all ready to install
with instructions.   Since I had to buy a whole package of spade ends
and a roll of wire I made up quite a few of them.  a few list members
have them and they work as expected.   I created a page on my site for
anyone looking for the information on how to make one and the
instruction sheet on which relay to pull and which prongs to insert the
jumper into.

You can access it at:

or please e-mail me if you would like a jumper sent to you.  I only
charge $5.00.  No postage.   I also pre-test each jumper in my own car
first so I know they are o.k.

Tom Watkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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