From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 868
Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:57 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Factory Clock questions
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

2. Re: Factory Clock questions
From: "andy_verbrugghe" <Verbrugghe_at_dml_delorean.com>

3. Instrument light
From: wilhelm starberg <wilm_at_dml_c2i.net>

4. Re: Factory Clock questions
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

5. Headliner Recovery
From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>

6. Car Show Rules and Guidelines Graceland
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

7. The Hand Brake Saga..Cont...
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>

8. Re: Alignment Toe-In Question
From: RJRavalli_at_dml_AOL.com

9. Re: On the prowl for a used radio
From: "John Galik" <j.galik_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

10. Best Built DeLoreans
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>

11. Insurance/proposed ban...
From: "Cecil Longwisch" <dmc1982_at_dml_msn.com>

12. Lower Control Arm Stabilization
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>

13. Re: Headliner Recovery
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

14. Re: Instrument light
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

15. Re: Headliner Recovery
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com

16. Re: Alignment Toe-In Question
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

17. Meeting JZD.
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

18. Re: On the prowl for a used radio
From: "Ed Garbade" <edgarbade_at_dml_hotmail.com>

19. Re: Headliner Recovery
From: "Ed Garbade" <edgarbade_at_dml_hotmail.com>

20. Re: Headliner Recovery
From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

21. Turning circle?
From: "funkymcfly" <danielpwillis_at_dml_hotmail.com>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:17:08 EST
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Factory Clock questions


The main problem with the Britax Vega supplied clocks are poor cold solder 
joints. This a problem with older Lucas electric's as well. 

Best Wishes,
Michael



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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:52:16 -0000
From: "andy_verbrugghe" <Verbrugghe_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Factory Clock questions

> I guess these were sort of rare and they stopped putting them in 
> sometime late 1981?? (Anybody got more info on this?)
> 
I think you could be right, because my car was built octobre '81 
(VIN#04610) and I have a factory clock (wich works perfectly, by the 
way). Probably one of the last ones, because a friend of mine has a 
early '82 model and doesn't have a clock.

Regards from Belgium

Andy




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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:12:19 +0100
From: wilhelm starberg <wilm_at_dml_c2i.net>
Subject: Instrument light

Hello, 

Since I got my drivers license last tuesday (yahoooo :) I'm finally able to drive my own car.
One night when I was driving i realized that I could not see my spedoometer, it's
not illuminated.
I started to turn the rheostat, and nothing happened, except that the light in the hazard switch 
switched off.

What might this be? what bulbs are affected by the rheostat? 

I would also like to thank Mr. John Hervey for helping me with my cold start problems - it was the thermo time switch.
Now I am able to start the car at "any" temperature - I have been driving my car in minus 15 degrees 
celsius (5 deg. fahrenheit).
The car really looks cool when it's that cold outside, I am going to take some pictures soon.


Regards,

Wilhelm Starberg
VIN #10816
Norway





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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:35:06 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Factory Clock questions

The reason DMC stopped putting the clock in the console is that when 
they changed from the Craig to the ASI radios the ASI had a clock  in 
it's display. I an guessing but probably the reason for the change was 
to reduce the parts count. In most industries the "holy grail" is to 
reduce the # of parts. Less parts has a magnifying effect. Less to 
buy, less to spend, less to inventory, less to assemble. Short of 
reducing parts count is to try to use as many of the same parts as you 
can. This is probably also the reason the fuel flap came out of the 
hood. Besides the Craig had problems with the display which probably 
helped push the change to the ASI. DMC was probably already getting 
warranty problems on the Craig back in 81.The Parts Manual should have 
the vin changeover.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "deloreanfl" <ericp_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> I've had several people ask me about the repair on the factory 
clock.
> I guess these were sort of rare and they stopped putting them in 
> sometime late 1981?? (Anybody got more info on this?)
> 
> Anyhow, I placed two pictures in the "PHOTOS" section of this 
eGroup.
> You can find them in the folder marked "ERIC P's..."
> 
> Eric
> Dunedin, FL
> Vin# 05557
> ericp_at_dml_t...




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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:01:01 -0500
From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>
Subject: Headliner Recovery

I need some advice on restoring the foam underneath the fabric on the
headliners of the car.
 
Doors are fine . 
 
T and rear are hurting!
 
I did the only thing I really could think of doing .. took them off
 
I managed to "peel" the grey fabric from the rotten foam nicely..
 
I then removed all the deteriorated foam from the backing 
 
Now . what I am THINKING is to simply replace the foam and glue it in
place with some type of spray glue
 
Then spray the foam with spray glue and carefully put the grey fabric
back on . (but will the foam react some how with the glue.? I don't
know!!) .. will the glue leak throught the fabric??
 
 
 
Suggestions .Thoughts .. feelings . warnings!?!
 
 
 
Is there another method .. aside from simply replacing?
 
As well . any types of spray glues recommended? 
 
Finally . is there any suggestions for removing the remaining rotten
foam from the fabric .. its VERY delicate and I am afraid of tearing it
..
 
Thanks Guys!! :-)
Kenneth
005548
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:42:28 EST
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Car Show Rules and Guidelines Graceland

The Delorean Car Show webpage now has added guidelines for the different 
classes of cars for the show. <A HREF="http://deloreancarshow.com"> Look it up at Deloreancarshow.com</A>.  

Missing from the sheet is the Restoration Class and the Die Cast Model class 
that have been added.  We are still working on guidelines for that and may 
not post them until the next show since we are still experimenting with these 
classes.

The Die cast competition is a competition of the die cast models for 
modifications.  Right now I think there will be at least two classes 
(modifications and radical modifications) based on the feedback I get.  Entry 
fee will be $1.00 for this class paid when you enter your car.  There will at 
this point be two prizes unless I find out there will be a large number of 
entries. 

It was too late to put it on the registration form so we will just take care 
of it at the show.  

Someone even mentioned a concourse competition for the models.

I think we will have to wait a few years for that.

The show is filling up fast 

Ken 

DeLorean Car Show Inc


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:22:07 -0000
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: The Hand Brake Saga..Cont...

G'day all

After following some good advise From DMC Joe, I think my hand brakes are now 50% of the way there.

I know the Cables are good and working.

With some adjustment of the lock nuts on the cable at the calliper I now have full travel.

New Pads has given me better grip.

However, My adjuster Nut and Bolt are not adjusting, in fact the seem to be totally seized together.  I have now ordered the new parts.

My questions would be how easy are these to change and refit, Has anyone done this, and does the Pawl go over or under the adjuster nut. A picture of the assembly would be great if anyone has it.

Thanks in advance

Paul
#6463 ( the un-stoppable) 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:00:51 EST
From: RJRavalli_at_dml_AOL.com
Subject: Re: Alignment Toe-In Question

I recently had tie rods replaced and an alignment done, but seeing that I do not being a mechanic I do not comprehend the print-out I received after the shop was done.  If you would like me to read something to you off that sheet I could do that.  My alignment seems to be pretty decent.  Don't know if this helps you though...

Richard  



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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:19:25 -0500
From: "John Galik" <j.galik_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: On the prowl for a used radio

Travis

I'm planning to upgrade my audio in the next few months, you can have my
stock radio for shipping chgs.  E-mail me off list.

John Galik
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Goodwin < >
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:31 AM
Subject: [DML] On the prowl for a used radio


> I know alot of people have replaced their radios and might have their old
> ones lying around. I'd like to buy a good, used radio since mine never
came
> with one. I'm afraid that a shiny, new one will stand out like a turd in a
> punch bowl.

[moderator snip]



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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:33:35 -0800
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>
Subject: Best Built DeLoreans

[Meaningful subject line added by moderator]

[Moderator Note: This question comes up frequently, usually from potential owners seeking a quick screening method to narrow their search.  As a quick search of the DML back issues will show, there are many opinions on the subject.  Generally, knowing the VIN can tell you something about a DeLorean's condition 20 years ago, but tells you nothing about its condition today.    - Mike Substelny, this week's DML moderator]

i was wondering what was the best year delorean produced the dmc-12
1981, 1982 or 1983? i heard the very first ones of the  assembly line
had door fitting problems and the most were made in
1981 and the least in 1983 but is there really a year or vin number
sequence (example.. between vin # 3500 to 6000 for the 1981 years) that
is better built or are they really all the same 
or was the worst or best built in 1983 because of the factory closing
and the workers were more skilled because they have  assembled more cars
by the factory closeing in1983?

thanks
mark



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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:14:51 -0500
From: "Cecil Longwisch" <dmc1982_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Insurance/proposed ban...




The insurance thread, though often visited, is probably one of the most 
important and universal threads that is discussed. As I recently lived 
through and shared with the list,  State Farm has put the DeLorean on the 
"black list" of no new insured list.  This threatens the long term viability 
of our marque if this spreads thoughout the industry. We do not want to 
relagate our coverage to the speciality car insurerers with all of the 
restrictions. This will eliminate the whole daily driver market for our 
cars.
This will not go away if we ignore it.

Cecil Longwisch
#10663
FL: STNLESS


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com




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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:26:34 -0000
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: Lower Control Arm Stabilization

Hello List - 

I had mentioned in a previous post that I was exploring some new 
hardware to help stabilize the front lower control arms.  I have 
received a call from the vendor, and the engineering drawings are 
ready for my approval.  They will also provide a set of parts for me 
to try on my car, and I will report on the results when available.  
The company is also developing a price for all components, so that 
others can obtain these parts if the evaluation is successful.  They 
will require that the parts be run through a third-party distributor 
because they are not set up for individual sales.  I personally 
believe that the links will provide a positive benefit, but the data 
will prove one way or the other.  I am exploring the process of doing 
a real-time stress survey (using digital strain gages and recording 
equipment) on the test parts and on the car frame and existing front 
sway bar to determine how much load transfer will actually happen, and 
if excessive loads will be introduced into the frame shock towers.  I 
will report on that data if I can manage that study.  Stay tuned for 
further developments ...

Toby Peterson  VIN2248
Winged1




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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:31:03 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Headliner Recovery

Headliner fabric already has the foam attached to it.  It is totally
impractical to try to reuse the outer fabric while replacing the foam.  It
just isn't done.  Look for an automotive upholstry wholesaler in your area
and buy enough fabric by the yard to recover the headliners.  There are many
issues getting it all to fit properly.  Without retyping it all here, I will
just say to search the back issues.

If you do this project yourself, please photograph and document the process
so that we can make it a part of DMCNews/DMCTech.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:09:36 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Instrument light

Wilhelm, The dash light bulbs are # 194. You can see a photograph where they 
go on my web site under electrical second page. Most likley the rehostat is 
bad. I'm working on a replacement.
John
Follow this link. http://www.specialtauto.com/images/dash-rear.jpg



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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:21:21 EST
From: jwit6_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Headliner Recovery

Check earlier posts on recovering. Don't just glue the old fabric over new 
foam. The headliner you want to use is easily available and comes with the 
fabric bonded to the foam. I got mine at Joanne Fabrics. Also available from 
auto upholstry shops in a number of shades that you should be able match 
quite nicely. Adhere with 3M headliner adhesive available in spray cans. Get 
the good stuff, approx $10-$12 a can. Got mine at NAPA. Instructions on 
application are on the can. Pay attention to the overlap of the fabric to the 
stainless and door weatherstrip. Again there are good writeups out there in 
the archives. 
Jim vin 6147



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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 04:53:09 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Alignment Toe-In Question

As per the Workshop manual A:01:03 Tow-in (we call it toe) is 3mm 
(0.12) per wheel. Don't try to overanylize this. The shop will know 
how to set this. The theory is the wheels are set pointing together 
slightly (pigeon toed) so as you go down the road they tend to spread 
apart, that is turn outward. By setting the toe inward just a little 
they will point straight ahead when the play is factored in. On 
H:08:01 it references toe and calls for 1/2 degree per wheel +0 -10 
minutes. Make sure that the shop that does this work has a 4 wheel 
rack. The thrust angle (rear toe) is important. See K:08:01. Toe has a 
major effect on tire life, and centering of the steering wheel. It can 
also cause "leading" that is a tendency not to go straight ahead. The 
toe for the front is usually not far off, the rear toe is often off. 
That causes a tendency for torque steer, that is as you use power the 
car tends to go off to the left or the right and increases tire wear 
on the rear tires. Ride height affects toe. If the car is lowered it 
must be checked and adjusted if needed.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "jwit6dmc12" <jwit6_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> The DMC manual states that toe in should be set to 3 degrees. How 
> specifically is this measured? I want to make sure I thoroughly 
> understand this before I take it to a less than Delorean familiar 
> shop to have it done. 
> 
> Is this measurement taken from the centerline formed by both axles? 
> In which case the straight ahead wheel centerline would be at 87 
> degrees from the chassis axle centerline, instead of 90 degrees? 
> 
> Is it 3 degrees per wheel, or 3 degrees total? In which case it 
would 
> be 1.5 degrees per wheel, or 88.5 degrees per wheel?
> 
> As usual any help would be appreciated...
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim Witherspoon EFI Vin 6147




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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:51:40 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Meeting JZD.

I know that asides from being a busy man, JZD also respects his 
privacy. But I do have a question. Unfortunetly, I will not be able 
to make it to Memphis. However, I may have to take a business trip 
soon that would place me in his area. That being New Jersey. So as 
you've probably guessed by now, I would really love the opprotunity 
to meet the man.

So my question is if anyone knows of a contact person that I would be 
able to speak with to find out if he would be available/interested?

If we can swing things, lunch is on me!

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 07:28:13 -0500
From: "Ed Garbade" <edgarbade_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: On the prowl for a used radio

This is one of the reasons I love this group and our car.  Talk about 
generosity!

Ed

>From: "John Galik" <j.galik_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [DML] On the prowl for a used radio
>Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:19:25 -0500
>
>Travis
>
>I'm planning to upgrade my audio in the next few months, you can have my
>stock radio for shipping chgs.  E-mail me off list.
>
>John Galik
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Travis Goodwin < >
>To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:31 AM
>Subject: [DML] On the prowl for a used radio
>
>
> > I know alot of people have replaced their radios and might have their 
> > old ones lying around. I'd like to buy a good, used radio since mine
> > never came with one.
[moderator snip]



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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 07:38:44 -0500
From: "Ed Garbade" <edgarbade_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Headliner Recovery

Guess this sounds obvious but I did this once in an old vehicle.  Got some 
fabric glue and sprayed it on.  In some areas it "soaked through" creating a 
hard and numerious much much darker area.  Basically, borrowing a phrase for 
a recent post, it looked like turds in a punch bowl.

Bottom line is get several opinions (maybe fabric, auto upholstery, and home 
upholstery) and test before you commit.

Ed
10541



>From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [DML] Headliner Recovery
>Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:01:01 -0500
>
>I need some advice on restoring the foam underneath the fabric on the
>headliners of the car.

<snip>

>
>Now . what I am THINKING is to simply replace the foam and glue it in
>place with some type of spray glue
>
>Then spray the foam with spray glue and carefully put the grey fabric
>back on . (but will the foam react some how with the glue.? I don't
>know!!) .. will the glue leak throught the fabric??
>


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com




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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 05:31:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Headliner Recovery

Kenneth, odds are the headliner material has seen
better days too.  Rather than replacing only the foam,
I'd recommend going to your local fabric shop.  (Here
in Maryland we have two that I know of: Minnesota
Fabrics, and Jo Ann's Fabrics)  They will usually have
the actual headliner material which will be the same
(or very very similar) grey fabric with the foam
already applied.  As for the spray adhesive, I'd
recommend "3M General Trim Adhesive" which can be
found at auto parts stores like Pep Boys.  I've used
other brands of spray adhesive and 3M just seems to be
better.  One last tip.  Once both surfaces, the new
material and the headliner board and sprayed, any
contact between the two is pretty much permanent.  So
you may want to have an extra set of hands there to
keep any dangling edges from making contact before
you're ready and in position.  Hope that helps.  Feel
free to email me privately if you have any other
questions.

Steve

VIN 2650 ("Project Delorean")
www.angelfire.com/md2/projectdelorean
--- Digital Devices <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>
wrote:
> I need some advice on restoring the foam underneath
> the fabric on the
> headliners of the car.

[moderator snip]



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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:33:45 -0000
From: "funkymcfly" <danielpwillis_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Turning circle?

Hi all.

I don't want to start a whole new debate on running large wheel sizes 
BUT of all the people out there currently running DeLoreans on larger 
wheels - does it affect the turning circle *noticably*? By this I 
don't mean "Yes by 3mm", I mean when you are driving is it obvious?

I recently drove a standard car locally in a small English town (how 
quaint?!) and it was a real pain to get out of junctions (all 
standard).. at one point I even had to do a three point turn! 
(Remember that your roads are on average, larger than ours!).

Cheers all!

Dan (UK)
Vin#less - >>but the project continues!...>> 
www.projectmadness.com




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