From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 906
Date: Thursday, February 14, 2002 8:34 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: A new twist on the door mechanism problem
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

2. Open door warning buzzer
From: Travis Goodwin <>

3. Door Lock module Pic
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

4. Re: Fuel Distributor: Learn what I'm learning!

5. Re: Fuel Distributor: Learn what I'm learning!
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>

6. Re: Re: Door Lock

7. Re: The Dream Car
From: Dick Ryan <>

8. RE: A disservice to our car
From: "Mike Griese" <>

9. RE: Wide accent stripe
From: "stevepeck1" <>

10. Re: delorean quality
From: Dick Ryan <>

11. internal door adjustments was: Digest Number 904
From: "Walter Coe" <>

12. Re: Interest in Performace Air Filters

13. need Rivnuts & tool
From: "Walter Coe" <>

14. Re: Angle drive removal
From: Jan van de Wouw <>

15. D-Bashing: Some entertainment
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

16. How to Bleed the Brakes & Change the Clutch Fluid?
From: "dmc83_gullwing" <>

17. Re: Stainless Cleaner NOT!
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

18. Re: New Speaker Install...Save original car
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

19. Re: Neon Ground Lights
From: "Chris Boden" <>

20. Re: Reckless video game mpg in files
From: Jack The Stripper <>

21. Picture of DIN Bracket
From: Christian Williams <>

22. Re: Re: John Delorean and Reliability.
From: "Robert Hook" <>

23. Corvette 350 in a Delorean???
From: Doug Hornsby <>

24. Re: Speakers
From: Farrar Hudkins <>

25. TOBY-TAB's are now available!
From: "tmpintnl" <>

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:24:24 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: A new twist on the door mechanism problem

Hi Andrew,

(I'm assuming the door works fine from the inside handle).When you take 
the door trim off, the answer is staring you in the face - probably why 
it isn't in the archives! The outer handle operates a cable - much like 
a bicycle brake. At the end of the cable where it links to the latch 
mechanism, there's an adjustment exactly as you'd find on a bicycle 
brake - a couple of turns of the nut and your door will open perfectly. 
I had the same problem and the previous owner had broken the handle 
trying to open the door!


Andrew Smith wrote:

>My problem, however, is that even when the driver's door
>is unlocked, it doesn't open most of the time.  When I pull up on the
>handle, I can feel it come slightly open, but the mechanism clearly does
>not fully disengage from the sill.


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:04:03 -0500
From: Travis Goodwin <>
Subject: Open door warning buzzer

I'm trying to find the part number for the open door warning buzzer that
mounts by the steering column. Can someone point me to a page number or part
number? Mine sounds like a cicada on acid.


Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:36:05 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Door Lock module Pic

Seeing as there've ben a few mentions of the door lock module in the 
past few days, I thought I'd mention that I've now got a picture of my 
reconditioned one on my website under "Club Gallery". It does not show 
the additional diodes on the underside of the board - my camera's not 
good enough for that. Suffice to say anyone who can solder could do this 
upgrade (you only really need electronic skills to troubleshoot a broken 
one). I replaced the relays and capacitors, and added protection diodes 
to the inderside. Cost is about 5.



Message: 4
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:39:20 EST
Subject: Re: Fuel Distributor: Learn what I'm learning!

Eric and others, To carry this one step further. We check out the flow rate 
and the pressure on the fuel distributors for $100.00. If the flow and 
pressure is not correct, then it has to be opened and rebuilt. Deloreans have 
to be shimmed from the inside to correct the problems. We can now also 
replace the SS separator for the chambers with a new one which also doubles 
as the sealing gasket.
John Hervey


Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:38:27 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>
Subject: Re: Fuel Distributor: Learn what I'm learning!

 All you have to do is match up the numbers. All of the variations 
each have different numbering. Some of the parts can be interchanged 
but some of the springs and metering elements are varied for different 
flow rates of air and fuel. This is just another case of "If it fits 
it must be OK". NOT!!!! If you get your parts from a Delorean vender 
even though you may pay a little more you only buy 1 and it is the 
correct one! It is rare that you would need a metering unit anyway 
unless of course you don't have the right one.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

-- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "deloreanfl" <ericp_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> Well, I'm continuing to become more versed in the CIS fuel injection 
> system. Since I love the information trade I get from this news 
> group, I thought I'd share something I have suspected - and recently 
> learned or (confirmed):
> NOT ALL BOSCH CIS Fuel Distributors are created equal!
> In fact, you would think that if is was off of 78 to 80's model, 6 
> cyclinder Bosch CIS fuel system...that it will work on a DeLorean.


Message: 6
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:44:35 EST
Subject: Re: Re: Door Lock

Ed and others, Again, If you use a smaller current rating on the door locks, 
10 or 15 amps, the breaker will normally trip faster to keep from burning up 
the module. I use a 10 amp and my car is still original locks and everything. 
Don't use a 40 amp. It's just to much for the system to handle. If the relays 
in the module are burned, Again I can replace them. Also, don't use the 
inside door lock mechanism.
John Hervey 


Message: 7
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:47:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Dick Ryan <>
Subject: Re: The Dream Car

I, too , agree with Jim's feelings about his car.

I've owned a DeLorean without interruption since 1982
(on my second one, actually).  I have traveled over
100,000 miles in my D's.  

It is still a love/hate relationship.  I love what it
is!  I often hate what it isn't!  I have never owned
any inanimate object that has given me more pleasure -
or caused me more frustration.

I'm still living the dream and will continue to do so
until I can no longer drive!

Dick Ryan


Message: 8
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:39:56 -0600
From: "Mike Griese" <>
Subject: RE: A disservice to our car

Mike - I don't understand your last comment.


 IF ... the
DeLorean was the failure that everyone claims it to be, why are the current
up market manufactures, marketing and assembling their top of the line cars
just like the DeLorean?

I rest my case.

Best Wishes,
Michael Pack


Message: 9
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:48:39 -0000
From: "stevepeck1" <>
Subject: RE: Wide accent stripe has the original 3M adhesive sticker in stock and on special.

#3302 21K


Message: 10
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:01:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Dick Ryan <>
Subject: Re: delorean quality

I just got through agreeing with Jim on his feelings
about the D.  Now, I'm going to  sort of challenge him
on the qualilty of the D's.  Keep in mind, I have only
owned two and I have only driven in excess of 100,000
miles in my D's.

I have never replaced a starter, any ac parts, brakes
(other than pads), and on and on.  Yes I had ONE
impulse coil in the distributor go bad at about 50,000
miles.  And, I have had a couple (seriously, just a
couple) of door problems and they became solved with
the purchase of Lockzilla. Oh, and yes, since my first
D was an automatic, I did replace one computer
governor (put over 70,000 miles on that car. And ,
yes, I did have an  angle drive problem early on. 
Learned that with frequent lubrication, that problem
usually disappears.

BTW,  both of my cars were/are equipped with twin
turbo's.  Supposedly that produces extra strain on the
engine, but I've seen no adverse effects.

I am not mechanically inclined.  I therefore have
almost all my work done by someone else.  Costly, to
be sure, but I always use one of the well known
DeLorean repair facilities.  I am religious about

Perhaps this is why I never fear getting into my D and
taking off on a 1/2/3,000 mile trip - as I did 4 times
last summer.

I don't know where the statistice for Joe's database
come from and I have never had service performed by
him.  However, the figures he quotes jibe quite nicely
with my experience.

Dick Ryan


Message: 11
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:25:02 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: internal door adjustments was: Digest Number 904

> I'm thinking I might need
> to tighted the door lock cable since it affects the travel of the door
> rod when the car is unlocked from the outside. Hmmmmmmm.

I adjusted the exterior door handle on a friend's DeLorean.  What caused the
problem is that the lock nut on the door handle's cable vibrated loose with
time allowing the adjustment to drift.  So when you lifted the handle, the
cable wouldn't always pull quite far enough to open the door.  I suggest
checking the adjustments of all the rods.  I've never seen any instructions
on it, but my experience is that if you fiddle with each rod you can figure
out what it does and how it could best be adjusted.

One important point when making these adjustments is that the door latches
will not lock properly when the door is open.  Instead they just jam.  To
debug it with the door open, use a 3/8" socket extension in place of the
door latch post to operate the latches.  When you are done, remember to open
the latches BEFORE you try to close the door!

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 12
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:58:36 EST
Subject: Re: Interest in Performace Air Filters

In a message dated 2/13/02 11:52:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes:

<< True. This alone would not result in an marked increase in acceleration 
or bhp. Best estimates of these filters is a 5hp gain. >>

     In a message dated 2/14/02 7:36:04 AM Central Standard Time,

<<> I ran my EFI Delorean on a chassis dyno with and without the entire air 
> filter assy and housing and only saw about a 1 hp gain without it.>>

    A couple of years ago we ran my Turbo Delorean on a chassis dyno using 
the stock airbox housing with a new paper filter to establish a base line. We 
then installed the "K&N Air Filter Kit" into the stock airbox and without any 
other changes saw a 3hp gain at the rear wheels. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 13
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:28:05 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: need Rivnuts & tool

I need a bunch of Rivnuts and an installation tool.  The DeLorean vendors
don't sell these that I am aware.  Can anyone suggest where to buy a kit?  I
understand they can cost $300 to $400 for the whole shebang, but I really
only need to do the size that is used in the trunk.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 14
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:04:54 +0100
From: Jan van de Wouw <>
Subject: Re: Angle drive removal

On 14-02-2002 wilhelm starberg wrote:

> The time has come to replace my angle drive (ad),
> but I can't find any procedures on the net,
> or in the manuals.
> Do I just loosen the speedo cable, and then unscrew the ad
> is this possible without removing the brake line?

The brakeline doesn't have to come off and removing
the caliper isn't really neccesary either...

The easiest I found is to remove the wheel,
remove the dust/drivecap.
disconnect the tie rod from the steering knuckle,
disconnect the speedocable from the AD.
Then swing the wheel as far left as possible.
You should now be able to put a large spanner onto
the nut that the AD sits in, you have to pull UP to loosen it.
When doing so, make sure you don't inadvertedly move your car
on the jack or jackstands! Be carefull!

The Nut and AD should slide out (mind the cable coming
out of the axle!) towards the front of the car now.

Now for the fun part (NOT!); removing the drive from the nut...
If you want to go for a HardCore version by PJ Grady leave it
assembled and send the unit to them. You get a core exchange
of about $80,- for the complete assy when ordering the HC-version.
If you want to replace it with an O.E.M. one and decide to install
the wheatherproofing kit, leave it together too; there's a new
nut with the wheatherproofing (turned down to accept a rubber boot).
If you absolutely HAVE to disassemble you're going to have to pry
into the hole of the nut, next to the cable to compress the lock ring
enough to slide out the AD to the other side.
I managed to do this once, but it took me over an hour
and some really strong words!

Installing the new or repaired drive is a matter of reversing the
above, with the main difference being that the drive clicks into
the nut is a snap. Torque everything to specifications and don't
forget to check if the drive cap is still good, the part is just
a couple of dollars, so replace if unsure.

Last but certainly not least;
This nut secures the axle into the knuckle, with it missing the
wheel can come off while driving. Not only damaging to your car,
but also VERY dangerous to you and others!

Good luck,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

PS. if you read Dutch,
I have a write up on this matter I can send you.


Message: 15
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:51:03 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: D-Bashing: Some entertainment

Hi All

In the light of current discussions, I have reversed my decision to post
this. I was contacted by a certain gentleman who seems to think that
mailing the owner's club and telling them they're all deluded imbeciles
will somehow make him a better person. I have edited the discourse
slightly, and the last couple of mails from him have degenerated into
insults, so they're not included. I've managed to laugh at it all, as
he's basically run out of arguments. The exchange has now degenerated
into increasingly imaginative insults (apparently I have "less class
than an empty school" - quality!).

Our friendly neighborhood moderator, Mike, has asked me to put it on the
web rather than in this mail because it's quite long, and of course I
have obliged.

If you do decide to mail him yourself (I'm sure he'd appreciate it -
NOT) his e-mail's - and do me a favour and BCC
me on it?

Please take what follows as a bit of harmless entertainment. This guy
truly is an idiot of the Quentin order.....



Message: 16
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:23:13 -0000
From: "dmc83_gullwing" <>
Subject: How to Bleed the Brakes & Change the Clutch Fluid?

One of my new goals for the the year is to become a do-it-youself 
Delorean Mechanic- for the easy stuff that is :-)

So with that in mind, this weekend I am going to perform the 

1.  Change the Driver / Passanger Door Stuts (Thanks to new one from 
PJ Grady's).
2.  Perform my first Oil Change- Where I found directions already on 
3.  Bleed the Brake Fluid and Change the Clutch Fluids
4.  Flush the Radiator.

However since I have never performed steps 2 and 3, are they are 
tips out there?  I figure fluching the brake fluid is as easy as 
taking off a tire, and opening up the bleeder valve, and letting all 
the oil run through.  But do i have to do this for all tires?

Also I am not quite sure what other fluids I might need to change.  
I think Oil, Radiator, Brake, and Clutch should do it.

Also I was planning on going with a Synthetic Oil- any reason I 
should not?

Thanks everyone for you help again-



Message: 17
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:43:45 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: Stainless Cleaner NOT!

I thought about that, but the house doesn't have the loop 
installed, so I'd need a pro to come out and install the loop and 
the system. On the flip side though, those softeners do use alot 
of water themselves to flush out all of the salt.

But I have thought about a water softener in the past. Not for the 
house, but just the car. It would make things easier for washing 
the car, and flushing the cooling system...

vin 6585 "X"

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> They have whole-house water softeners at Sears, Home 
Deport, etc. Your whole
> family will thank you.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...>
> To: <dmcnews_at_dml_y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [DML] Stainless Cleaner NOT!
> <SNIP>
> >
> > However, hard water is a problem. I have calcium stuck 
down in
> > the grain. I'll try the bleach-white as see if that cleans things 
up a
> > bit. Thanks for the tip!
> >
> > -Robert
> > vin 6585 "X"
> [quote trimmed by moderator to enhance relevance of this 


Message: 18
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:04:23 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: New Speaker Install...Save original car

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Kevin Abato" <delorean_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I mounted the speakers where they are, becuase any closer to 
the sides of
> the car, there is a lot of wiring.  I didnt think it best to but a large
> magnetic speaker next to the wires of the car....

I know this isn't totally related, but I have a question about this. A 
While back, I replaced the sparkplug wires on my DeLorean with 
a set of high performance, aftermarket ones. After this, I thought 
that I had A/C pully bearings going out. On high revs, I heard a 
high pitched noise. Everytime I stuck my head in the engine 
compartment, I couldn't find anything. Untill I noticed that the 
sound was comming from the passenger side of my car. So 
now I'm thinking that this may be RF interferance. Is this the 
reason why the coil wire going between the ignition coil and the 
electrical distributor is encased in that sheilding? Is the 
sheilding something that I should reattach to the new wire as 

vin 6585 "X"


Message: 19
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:18:21 -0500
From: "Chris Boden" <>
Subject: Re: Neon Ground Lights

Hi Kenneth :)

Finally a question that I have some serious experiance in, lol I have installed thousands of lights on the entire series of Geekmobiles over the years from Neon, to Strobe, Lightbars, and LED.

1. Neons are illegal in most states, especially frowned on being blue. Watch yourself. That's why we don't run them on the Geekmobiles anymore.

2. Neon lights are prone to crack (even with the protective tubes, they crack too, especially on a car that sits low (like Geek-3 or a DeLorean).

3. They are prone to have problems with water and other environmental hazards...under a car isn't a great place to be :)

To solve this problem and still have legal, undercar lights, we took it to the next level. The laws in Michigan prohibit Neon, but they allow Running Lights, and there is no limit to how many, or how small they can be. We developed a series of computer controlled LEDs (Light Emitting Diodes) that run the length of the car on each side, down as close to the ground as we could get them under the doors. There are 105 lights (each light is .2"dia) down each side from one wheel to the other. There are 70 lights on the front (2 rows of 35), and another 2 rows in the rear.

Each light actually contains 2 Diodes, one Yellow, one Green. The top row in the rear contains Yellow/Red (Red for braking). Each light is wired seperately and is individually addressable in software by the cars onboard computer controls. This allows us to do anything you can possibly imagine with the lights. They are all controllable in realtime and can be synced to anything, like the Tach, Speedometer, the volume of the stereo (so the lights look like a bouncing bar-graph for the stereo, a very cool effect), anything. They also have several preprogrammed and infinately variable patterns, like sweeping, chasing, etc. The only limit is your imagination.

To mount the lights (zipties aren't reliable for any extended period of time and you don't want to drop a 4' glass tube on the ground under your car). You will HAVE to drill a hole or 2. We didn't want to drill hundreds of holes in the car (mainly for strucural reasons). We drilled 5 holes on each side and mounted all the lights in a long, thin channel ("C" shaped crosssection) of stainless. We use the 5 small bolts to mount the channel to the car. Then we epoxy the holes to prevent rust, etc. The effect is stunning :)

For the front and back sets of lights, we simply drill a small hole for each light into the plastic of the bumper or the plastic grille and put s drop of superglue to hold the light in place. We've never had a problem :)

And, unlike Neons or Incandesant lights, LEDs will last you decades before they burn out :)

To accomplish all of this, we had to invent and design all of the computer controlls, the software, the protocols, schematics, everything. I would be happy to supply you with everything you need as far as schematics and specifications for all of our research. The only provision is you cannot use it for commercial purposes, etc.

Have fun and good luck!

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Digital Devices" <>
Date:  Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:03:38 -0500

>Well .. I just finished installing my ground lights .. and 
>BOY they look COOL (my opinion)

[long quote + busy DML day = snipped by moderator]


Message: 20
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:16:44 -0800
From: Jack The Stripper <>
Subject: Re: Reckless video game mpg in files

[Moderator Note:  I will not tolerate idle speculation on this subject.  Unless you know the answer for certain, do not respond to this message.  - Mike Subsyelny, DML moderating team]

But why did they screw around with the front end?  Were there copyright 
issues with DMC Houston?


> I just happened to capture about 3/4 of the commercial for the Xbox video
> game "Reckless" featuring a Delorean...
> Check it out if you dare.
> -Kevin
> #4687


Message: 21
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:40:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Christian Williams <>
Subject: Picture of DIN Bracket

I was wondering if anyone has a picture of what the DeLorean should look
like with the stock radio removed, and what it should look like with the
DIN bracket installed - but still with no radio in it.

I'm trying to determine if my car has the newer bracket, the old bracket,
or a converted version of the old one. My car accepts a DIN sized radio,
and is supported in the back by a screw going through a metal strip with
holes all the way down it that is hanging from above somewhere.

I removed the aftermarket radio that was in the car when I bought it a
couple months back and put in a cheap sony deck. Now the Sony is broken,
so before I put in a new deck, I want to make sure that it is supported
the way it should be to avoid any damage.



Message: 22
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:22:47 -0500
From: "Robert Hook" <>
Subject: Re: Re: John Delorean and Reliability.

[Moderator Note: This message brings up a lot of technical issues.  Due to heavy list traffic, please respond only to specific technical issues.  If you want to argue against Rob on general principles, please wait for a slow DML day.  - Mike Substelny  DML moderating team]

I originally wrote this a LONG time ago but decided not to send it to the
list.  I'm going to go ahead and send it now.  I've since upgraded to a
Viper and don't even try to keep the DeLorean running.  For those
interested, the Viper is a great "upgrade path" from the DeLorean.

You know...I'm probably one of the longest-running subscribers to this list
(I think there were 10 people on it when I subscribed) and I've read almost
every post.  I've also owned my own DeLorean for the past 5 years.

I'm sorry to say it, but I fall on the other side of the fence when it comes
to the reliability issue.  I've heard people claim that the DeLorean was a
very reliable car since the first time this thread came up but...I just
don't see it.

These "minor" and "well-known" problems people talk about actually encompass
most of the car.  And yeah, virtually ALL types of cars have these types of
problems but most of them have two or three, not 50 of them like the

Let's look at the car from the front to the rear:

The front bumper warps over time due to the heat from the headlights
The radiator tank neck breaks
The cooling fans often fail for various reasons
The horns go out (mine are dead right now)
The angle drive breaks VERY often
The spare tire doesn't hold air
The fuel pump boot melts and ruins your fuel system under certain
The fuel pump pickup lines collapse and starve the engine for fuel
The speedo cable fails often
The fuel cut-out switch (inertia switch) fails quite often
(Working from the front, we're not even to the middle of the car yet folks)
Various things go wrong with the fuel tank causing a strong gas odor in the
The oil pressure gauge usually reads incorrectly
The fuel level indicator is never accurate
The original clutch line gets hot and expands, making the clutch pedal
The fan motors fail and often end up running backwards
The headlight switches fail
The dash and binnacle crack and discolor
The door pull handles (not the strap) fall out of the doors
The windows stop working (either the cheap motors fail or they fall off
The ac/heat mode switches start leaking, causing a vacum leak to the engine
The doors VERY OFTEN droop and sometimes get out of adjustment
The a/c drain gets clogged, causing your car to spill cold water on your
passenger's feet (This is just about the only thing that HASN'T happened to
me...probably because the A/C never works either)
The dome lights break (my REPLACEMENT one almost caused a fire when it
The door locks get out of adjustment and don't even work manually
The headliners sag (Ok, to be fair, so do most cars eventually)
The electric door locks don't work right (and can even lock you IN the car)
(NOW we're at the middle of the car!)
The frame's protective coating cracks and actually ACCELERATES rust by
trapping moisture
The original relays fail almost 100% of the time
The fuse boxes often overheat and melt
The fuel accumulator fails and is a PAIN to replace
The automatic transmission computers go berzerk
The manual transmissions fail too (I've gone through 2 now, one of them
The heater bypass valve comes apart and is a BEAR to replace
The clutch slave cylinder fails.
( we're starting on the engine)
The temperature switch fails
The fuel injection system may be great but the idle system fails very often
The coils never could sustain spark to the car's redline
The exhaust manifolds come loose and leak
Bolts get stuck EVERYWHERE in this engine because there's so much aluminum
The water pump fails (not uncommon for any car  but you have to take half
the engine apart to replace it in a DeLorean)
The alternators were junk and even when they worked properly, were not
powerful enough
You need a special tool JUST TO CHANGE THE OIL (Ok, so this is more of an
annoyance than an actual failure, but WHY would they do this?)
The air conditioner idler bearings seize
The header bottle breaks, usually stranding you
The muffler hangers break off
The heat shields fall apart, releasing asbetos fibers into the air
Air gets trapped in the cooling system requiring an elaborate procedure (or
modifications) to get it out
The oil pressure sending unit leaks oil all over the engine
The trailing arms chronically come loose causing a hazardous situation
The drive shafts come loose or even break
The parking brake pads fly apart during driving
The rear louvres crack and break
The cable to open the rear engine cover often breaks
The rear lights quit working very often due to a design flaw

Wow.  I meant that 50 figuratively, I didn't think I'd actually find 50
things to list.  That's terrible.  For the most part, those are all COMMON
failures.  I've had virutally all of them happen to me.

Now I know you're going to see a million e-mails defending the DeLorean.
That's to be expected.  This IS a DeLorean mailing list.  And they're going
to say that there are known solutions to all of those problems.  That's
about like Microsoft saying that Windows 98 was great because it fixed over
100,000 bugs from Windows 95 (They released a product with 100,000
bugs?!?!?!)  But would you want a good portion of the engineering fixes on
your car to come from some guy tinkering in his garage or from the
manufacturer?  People here don't want to admit that the cars they care so
much about may just have been lemons to start with.  To put it lightly, the
DeLorean is a VERY quirky car.  Probably the quirkiest car in recent
history, to tell you the truth.  The only car that could ever compete with
the DeLorean for quirkiness is an old MG or some other British car.  But
even they aren't THIS bad.

Add to all these problems the fact that almost all parts have to be ordered
(DON'T try the cross-reference lists.  They cause even MORE problems), PLUS
most of the parts are 20 years old anyway, and you've got a car that is
difficult or impossible to keep up with as a daily driver.  If you were to
drive a DeLorean and have a mechanic keep it up for you, you'd pay so much
you could've had a really nice Mercedes or Corvette for the same monthly
amount.  Plus you'd have to keep another car to use while the DeLorean is
(quite often) in the shop.

Even the experience of driving the car isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Sure you get TONS of attention but alot of it is in the form of "Where's the
flux capacitor", "Isn't the guy who made those still in jail?", "Weren't
those cars really pieces of junk?", "Can it fly?", "Hey Marty", "How do you
keep that aluminum body clean?", "You got the AMC or Volkswagen engine in
there?" or  "Nice Lamborghini kit".  Add to that the fact that most rice
can out run the car, it rides like a horsecart and doesn't even sit low to
ground like a sportscar should.

I loved the DeLorean as much as anyone, but I'm afraid the love affair is
over.  It's time to wake up from this nightmare of a car.


Message: 23
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:37:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Doug Hornsby <>
Subject: Corvette 350 in a Delorean???

Greetings:  I have a Corvette and I have a Delorean. 
The D is notoriously underpowered.  I wonder, can you
fit a Chevy 350 into the D?  That would make it get up
and go.
    Perhaps this has been discussed before, or what
other engines may mate up to the tranny with a plate
or two in between.  Is there anything about this in
the archives?  Lastly, what is a running D engine
worth on E-bay or here?  Thanks in advance.


Message: 24
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:51:45 -0600
From: Farrar Hudkins <>
Subject: Re: Speakers

Hi, gang! It's good to be back.

Just to add my $0.02 to the speaker situation:

Since people are now cutting their own speaker walls, I thought I'd
mention that, in my experience, round speakers get more realistic bass
sound and do less work for the low and low-mid frequencies than the
oval-shaped ones. Does anyone else have experience in round vs. oval?
I'd see if I could fit a couple of 8" speakers and titanium diaphragms
in there. Then again, I'm still saving up for those Genelecs I'm looking
at, not to mention the DeLorean. :P

To those who got the E! thing from me: those should go out tomorrow,
sorry for the delay. Look for a Priority Mail envelope from me. :)

Farrar Hudkins


Message: 25
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:30:09 -0000
From: "tmpintnl" <>
Subject: TOBY-TAB's are now available!

Hello List - 

I am pleased to announce that the new TOBY-TAB bolts are now available 
and ready for shipment.  Please visit the website for Darryl 
Tinnerstet's "Specialty Automotive" at 
for ordering information.  As posted previously, the new bolts came in 
at well over the design goal for ultimate tensile strength at 
approximately 245 KSI, as compared to the fresh OEM bolt that tested 
to 148 KSI on the same testing machine.  If you have any 
technical questions or concerns, please email me privately.  Thank you 
for your patience as we worked towards a successful completion of this 

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248


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