From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 933
Date: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 5:14 PM

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There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: door lights
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>

2. Re: New Frame
From: "Walter Coe" <>

3. Re: door lights
From: "Walter Coe" <>

4. Re: Window switch will not mount correctly in console
From: "Walter Coe" <>

5. Re: AC Panel (and Misc.) illumination
From: "Walter Coe" <>

6. Re: New Frame
From: "Walter Coe" <>

7. Re: The DOA - Finances and Future
From: Trevor Johnson <>

8. RE: 140 mph speedo
From: "Fedeli, Joe" <>

9. Re: Idler pully bearings
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>

10. Re: ADMIN: Monthly Reminder
From: "daveswingle2" <>

11. Re: ETDOC get together next weekend

12. Re: A new alternator problem! (And a radar detector install to boot)
From: "Walter Coe" <>

13. Is there an easy alternator model swap?
From: Steve Peck <>

14. Brakes
From: "dmcman82" <>

15. Re: Front suspension - stuck on step two.... (got wheel off sucessfully)
From: "dmcman82" <>

16. Front suspension: Wimped out - went to a shop. New questions though
From: "graves_14" <>

17. Chassis and suspension engineering drawings needed ($1000 cash reward)
From: "Walter Coe" <>

18. Re brushing stainless steel panels
From: "dmcburn75" <>

19. DeLorean blurb in US News & World Report

20. No engine cover
From: Tony Pistachio <>

21. Re: ETDOC get together next weekend

22. Re: Re: door lights

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 05:47:24 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>
Subject: Re: door lights

Before you tear into the wiring harness to check diodes make sure that 
the wires to the door switches aren't pinched and are securely 
connected to functioning door switches. Check both sides and make sure 
the wires on the driver's side are so that the door buzzer switch and 
the light switch aren't crossed, it is easy to accidently stick the 
wrong wire onto the wrong switch, some owners to keep the lights off 
when the doors are open pull a wire off of the door switch and strange 
things happen when crossed. It is not impossible to have a bad diode 
but it is unlikely. Refer to Workshop Manual M:18:12.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., DHughes030_at_dml_a... wrote:
>        There are three diodes located at the left hand front edge of 
> console, on the drivers side. One is blue, one red, the other black. 
> cross up the wires, but take them out and check them with an ohm 
meter. At 
> least one of yours is bad, I think it'll be the red one.
>    Don  #6860


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:18:07 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: New Frame

> What engine and trans upgrade are you
> considering. ?

You already know about the trans upgrade.  I want to use the same Porsche 4
speed automatic that you put in your time machine.  For now that project is
on the back burner until I get caught up on other projects.  As soon as I
finish getting my passenger door back together, I'm going to use my spare
time to make those convex mirrors.  And you are the 2nd one on my list for

As for a different engine, I am totally undecided.  My first major step is
to get the frame swapped with all the work involved in repainting the
suspension parts.  Once I have the car back together and running then I'll
swap the tranny but keep the OEM engine.  This will involve making an extra
bell housing, but I have learned my lesson too well to take things in
smaller steps when possible.  Otherwise a seemingly simple project can end
up taking forever.  When I have the Porsche tranny debugged, then I'll be
ready for an engine swap.  But I haven't ruled out the possibility of
keeping the original engine and having DMC Houston upgrade it along with
other modifications.  But what I really want (I think) is the Cadillac
Northstar V8.  I don't like the idea of sending my car off for someone else
to work on it, so I might try this conversion myself.  Maybe the guy will
sell a kit?  I doubt it.  I was just working on a Cadillac today, in fact.
But before I'm ready to transplant the engine out of one, I have a lot of
reading to do.

> I hope that someday we can set up a slow shalom race and see if the SS
frame also
> handles better.

That will be a lot of fun to do.  Maybe we can do that next year at the next
major show.  Reg Pearce (Bryan Pearce's father) told me that the SS frame
stops the car from "curtseying" in the corners.  When I'm through, there
will be several things different about the suspension besides just the
frame.  My goal is to have a heavy-duty front sway bar with a different
shape to stay out of the way of the front wheels, a rear sway bar that might
be a different shape than the Addco one, new custom front lower control arms
and of course the PJ Grady shocks & lower springs.  When I'm done, it should
handle very differently than the average DeLorean.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 3
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:38:45 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: door lights

> The passenger side door lights
> will not come on.(drivers side work fine)

Consider that you didn't seat the connector under the T-panel correctly.
That is the most obvious thing to check.  Have these lights ever worked
since you owned the car?  There is no telling what a previous owner may have
done.  The lights could be unplugged from inside the door, but there is a
separate plug for each light fixture.  So they would have had to unplug all

I have repaired a wire in someone's door that got cut & shorted from a sharp
edge.  This didn't blow a fuse, either.  It just burned the wire.  The next
time you have a door apart, use a piece of 3/8" water pipe insulation to
replace the rotten foam that protects the wire loom.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 4
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:47:49 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: Window switch will not mount correctly in console

> I put my console back together after installing my radio, and oddly
> my driver side window switch will not mount into its socket, unless i turn
> it 180 degrees!  Then, the passenger and driver button are oposite!

If it only wants to stay in while turned 180 degrees, then leave it that way
but reverse the wires under it.  Mine are particularly annoying because they
just don't stay put.  There is always one side that keeps popping up.  I'm
thinking about making a frame with a set-screw to go inside the console that
will put a death grip on those switches.  To tighten it I would need to
access the set-screws through the shifter cover.  This is just an idea.  It
might not be practical.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 5
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:42:24 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: AC Panel (and Misc.) illumination

> I just put my new console in yesterday, and I too am noticing the light
> shine thru the edges of hte AC control panel (and it never used to).

Kevin, maybe it has been there all the time and now you just noticed it?  I
think the panel is supposed to work on the same principle that fiber optics
use only in this case it is a sheet instead of a fiber.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 6
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:49:42 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: New Frame

> This isn't the reason that the epoxy flakes off. The frames are NOT
> flimsy it just the epoxy was coated on to thick and after so many
> years has lost it's ability to "flex" with the chassis.

My calling the OEM frame 'flimsy' is relative.  And granted, there are no
reports of stress fractures/cracks on non-rusted areas even with engine
swaps (with the exception of the crumple tube recall and cracks due to
mounting aftermarket rear sway bars).  I agree that the epoxy cracks because
it was applied too thick.  However, since the most severe rust problems
occur at stress points, I tend to blame frame flex (rightly or wrongly so)
as also being a contributing factor.

> Every
> chassis is designed to flex with the car as you drive, no frame
> should be built to stay put.
> I fear that since the Stainless Steel
> is brittle that it will shear/shatter/not crumple properly in an
> accident.

These were part of the engineering challenge of designing a frame from
stainless steel -- so that it can flex within certain limits while not
accumulating fatigue and still crumple properly in an accident.  People seem
to assume that he just copied the OEM frame and substituted stainless steel
of perhaps a heavier thickness in place of the original steel.  If this were
true, then it certainly would be dangerous.  But Reg Pearce is no dummy.  He
knows his materials.  There are industry standards of what is to be expected
for a given alloy in various situations.  So when designing his frame, Reg
took the properties of the alloy into consideration at every spot on the
frame.  We spent well over an hour on the phone discussing all these issues
in detail until I was satisfied.  Sure, we would all be curious to see crash
tests of the SS frame, but I feel confident of the PDC design without it.
It is a design based on the already crash-proven OEM frame with
consideration for the properties of the alloy used.

Keep in mind that JZD wanted to have stainless steel frames used on his
production cars.  I believe that if he had more time and money to research
it then it would have worked.  I hear that the deciding blow to the
stainless frame project was not due to stainless being unsuitable but rather
the need to crash-test the frames under freezing temperatures which was not
practical at the time.  On Tamir's website, he has some photos of an OEM
prototype frame made from stainless.  Can anyone say more about this?

> I went a different route...I sand blasted my old frame and recoated
> it with POR-15 paint.

This is exactly what I would have done if I were using my old frame.  There
is surface rust under the epoxy in places but nothing rusted through.  I
will either save this frame for a second car or sell it to someone dealing
with a badly rusted one.

> If your front end was that badly damaged then you could have just
> simply purchased the front end extension from Rob at PJ Grady and
> replaced the old damaged extension.

Yeah, but that wouldn't be as much fun.  :-)  Besides, I'm not sure my frame
is damaged at all with the exception of two bad tow hooks and the epoxy
problems.  It looks like a previous owner must have parked under someone
else's high bumper.  I'm suspicious that the car has a used hood,
straightened right front fender, new left front fender, used grille and a
used but repainted fascia with repairs to the front center fiberglass
underbody.  Remaining evidence is a bent radiator grille, cracked fan shroud
and a bent bracket inside the fascia.  I'm not too terribly disappointed
that I didn't know these things until after I bought the car.  Deep down
inside I know that this little wedge car and me belong together.  Every time
I see it from the front, it seems to smile back at me and say, "Cool".  :-)
And every time I finish a project, I say to myself, "more cool; new
technology assimilated."  You see, I like to pretend that it is a Borg
vessel.  Maybe I should have it assimilate some green neon, too.

You will be cool.  Resistance is futile.
Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 7
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:22:38 -0800
From: Trevor Johnson <>
Subject: Re: The DOA - Finances and Future

The last issue was missing almost all of the vendor ads due to a change
in policy. All of the vendors that had not paid by the deadline had their
ads pulled. This is different because in the past we allowed the ads to
go through and accepted payments late. This time we wanted to make it
clear that it is a good idea to pay on or before the deadlines. 
As for the classified price, that was raised a while back, as in
comparison, the average ad runs about 10$ an issue, which is
substantially lower than most other methods of advertising a car for sale
in a magazine. 
The number of paid members are kept confidential but it is well in excess
of 1250. The financial information is also not generally released, but if
you are interested try contacting the treasurer, Joan Truscott, I do not
know her policy of distributing the information. 
There has been a slight change as the current DeLorean World Editor
stepped down and a new one has been appointed. The next issue promises to
be very different from the past few years... And should be quite a
positive step for the Association. 

Trevor Johnson
DOA Director of Publicity
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:


Message: 8
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:48:54 -0500
From: "Fedeli, Joe" <>
Subject: RE: 140 mph speedo

To my understanding, they were a European item and limited to that market
only.  I had two, one is in my car, the other traded for a car part, but
available I believe, I'll forward you the email is interested.  They were
not 're-calibrated' as some vendors now do with the 160 MPH.  Joe  

-----Original Message-----
From: []
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: [DML] 140 mph speedo

Where can I find the 140 mph speedo mask mentioned in the "zine" article? 

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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 05:55:10 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <>
Subject: Re: Idler pully bearings

I don't think the idler pulley bearings are such a big deal. After 20+ 
years the lubricant has dryed out so they fail. Or the belt is too 
tight so they fail. The ordinary grade is more than sufficient but I 
guess it doesn't cost much to move up a grade if you want bulletproof. 
If you change the bearings every 10 years when you change the belt you 
would be very safe IMHO. How many people have anti-freeze in their "D" 
over 4 years!!!! Or hoses over 20+ years. Or brake fluid over 2 
years!!! Parts are not meant to last forever but people neglect things 
until they fail. Just because you don't put much mileage on your car 
doesn't mean you don't have to maintain it.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

-- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "dherv10" <dherv10_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Group, Here is some info i found on the web about EMQ bearings.
> John Hervey
> Ningbo Ninghuan Twincam Bearing Co.,Ltd. is an enterprise which is 
> specialized in producing miniature bearings, small deep groove ball 
> bearings, water pump integrated bearings for automobiles, automobile 
> bearings, rolling mill bearings and other types of bearings with 
> technology, named as Ningbo Miniature Bearing Factory before. The 
> miniature bearings are the bore diameter ranging from 3 to 12mm
> (Metric series) or 1/8" to 1/2" (Inch Series). Our company pocesses 
> modern equipment and advanced technology. Our products are high 
> precision, long life and steadily reliability with strict quality 
> control system according to the standard ISO9000. 
> Recently, we has been developed a new series of NII bearings which 
> are conformed to the EMQ electric motor's quality standard and could 
> be running in higher speed, more load and lower noise. The water 
> integrated bearings for automobiles include the structure of double 
> row balls, single row balls and single row rollers and as well 
> asangular contact. The fatigue life of the water pump integrated 
> bearings on rack testing rig which is specially designed for them 
> reached more than 2000 hours and fitted on automobiles, which ran 
> thousands kilometers, the products were still in good condition 
> (measured by USA users). Our products sell well in domestic markets 
> and other countries such as USA, West-Europe, East & South Asia, etc
> This tells a little more about bearings.
> John


Message: 10
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:23:09 -0000
From: "daveswingle2" <>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Monthly Reminder

Joe is correct - the actual link is
Guess they changed it somewhere along the line. 



Help for number 6.0 does not does not 
trying to turn off individual emails...there must be an easier 
way...I can
not be the first that has this problem.  

-----Original Message-----
From: David Swingle [mailto:dswingle_at_dml_e...]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 1:56 PM
Subject: [DML] ADMIN: Monthly Reminder

6.0 HOW DO I TURN THIS OFF - To unsubscribe from this list, go to the
Yahoo Groups web site, at, and 
select the.....


Message: 11
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:01:22 EST
Subject: Re: ETDOC get together next weekend

I have to make a shameless attempt at plugging this event as well.  I have 
been to every single ETDOC meet so far and every time it gets better.  I was 
part of the 1st meet in which the main attraction was driving the Dragon.  No 
kidding guys, this is one road you will remember driving your D on and the 
only thing I can even think comes close is a road course.  A good opportunity 
to test your D's capability and your own driving skills.  It is very 
important that your cooling systems and brakes are up to par for this event, 
you don't want a failure on this road!  One thing I have thought of that can 
make this driving event even better is if everyone has some 2 way radios.  
Most of us have some Motorola 2 way family band radios that we use to keep in 
touch.  If you are planning on coming and you have one of these, please bring 
it.  I hope to see a bunch of DeLoreans there.  We are gonna have lots of fun!

Darren Decker 
#5000 (for those of you who don't know, yes I have my car back and it will be 
at the meet)  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 12
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:09:55 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: A new alternator problem! (And a radar detector install to boot)

> Early models had a 500 ohm resister in parallel with the bulb and
> placed in the twist in type bulb holder. if they fell out or made poor
> contact, the alternator couldn't charge.

Don & John,
I have been wanting to replace all the bulbs in my a/c panel with bright
LEDs.  On that thought, it would be nice to carry this idea a step further
to replace the warning lights with LEDs, too.  Is there a way to do this
without hacking up other parts besides the bulbs?  For the alternator light
you would need a bias resistor for the LED and then a shunt resistor to make
the circuit still work to support the alternator.  Is there enough room in
the bulb socket for two resistors and an LED?

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 13
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:20:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Peck <>
Subject: Is there an easy alternator model swap?

 I have seen folks selling a 105 for the DMC for $230+.  It would seem that a simple (?) adaptation of a GM alternator would be a valid solution.  I have seen references to a Chevy Cavalier alternotor, but what were the modifications required?
Which model works?
-Steve #3302

-Steve Peck

Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 14
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:09:45 -0000
From: "dmcman82" <>
Subject: Brakes

While surfing the net last night and looking at brake components 
(I'm in the process of making all new brake lines at the moment and 
installing them on my car) I came across some interesting and 
startling information.

The first bit of interesting info comes from this page:
If you look at the caliper (figure 1)…It's the exact same one used 
on the Delorean (front ones). Go down the page a little and you'll 
also notice that the rotor looks about the same too (Figure 3)! Can 
we use this as another cross reference for the rotors and calipers? 
I know the current cross reference for the front calipers is from a 
Mercury Capri. It would be interesting (although not necessary) to 
do this conversion on the D :).

The second piece of info I came across was one for concern. I 
noticed that some people have modified (and others sell) their front 
rotor dust shields for "cooling" purposes. Why does this alarm me? 
The dust shield is in place to protect the backside of the rotor and 
brake components from everyday road debris such as mud, dirt, rocks, 
etc.. By bending the dust shield to achieve a cooling effect for the 
rotor you are exposing it to all of this road debris. Not only are 
you channeling air to the rotor but also all the mud, rocks, dirt, 
etc... that is kicked up while driving. This would be ideal on 
track/race cars since A. the rotors are replaced after every race or 
every other race and B. the track is cleaner then public road ways 
we ride on everyday. In some instance race cars don't even have 
these shields in place to cut down on wind drag and "lighten" the 
car (every bit counts). If anyone is thinking of doing this then 
please re-think it. The rotors are expensive and it's not an easy 5 
minute job to replace them. I'm sure there will be people jumping on 
this post trying to make it look wrong but think about, the flare 
that is created to force air in will capture and force debris onto 
the rotor and brake assembly causing damage (you'll see some "dings" 
divots, gouges, etc on the surface of the rotor). Have you ever 
noticed that build up of "crud" on the back of the dust shield? The 
front of the rotor is not prone to this problem because A. It is 
protected by the Wheel and B. there is no type of "flare" or "wing" 
that is channeling air and dirt onto the surface of the rotor as the 
so called "dust shield rotor cooler mod" is. 

dust shield: Sheet metal disc or plate placed on the brake assembly 
to keep debris from brake assembly. Also called "splash shield."



Message: 15
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:15:11 -0000
From: "dmcman82" <>
Subject: Re: Front suspension - stuck on step two.... (got wheel off sucessfully)

What shims are you referring too? I don't believe the front 
suspension has any shims (unless you are referring to the washers 
which are different). I know that the rear trailing arms have shims 
for alignment.

> Don't seperate the ball joint. No need. Remove the upper control 
arm pivot 
> bolt and you'll have plenty of room to work. Watch that you 
reinstall the 
> shims properly and retorque when reassembling.
> Jim 6147.


Message: 16
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:10:38 -0000
From: "graves_14" <>
Subject: Front suspension: Wimped out - went to a shop. New questions though

Ended up going to a shop and I'm glad I did. The shop is experienced 
with DeLoreans, but they had a heck of a time removing the old 
springs from the front. They said it took three guys to get each one 
out (which justifies the bill $$). The also had to cut one out. I'm 
glad I didn't get to that point. The shocks, on the other hand, went 
on without a hitch. Thanks for all your input though and I'm sure 
someone going through the archives will find it helpful.

Now on to the new question. They claim that the inner tie rod ends 
are lose. I've consulted two DMC vendors about this and they both 
agree that I can't get the inner rods separately. SO, this means a 
whole new rack. Anyone have any advice on replacing a rack? Can't be 
any worse than those darn springs! Also, any feedback on the 
differences between P.J. and Houston's racks? I know P.J.'s doesn't 
come with tie rod ends, but Houston's does. This sounds like an $85 
plus, but P.J.'s has more refurbishment. Choices choices choices...



Message: 17
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:08:45 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Chassis and suspension engineering drawings needed ($1000 cash reward)

[MODERATOR'S NOTE: The subject line of this posting was modified to be more descriptive]

I will pay $1000 cash (or certified funds) for complete engineering drawings
of the DeLorean chassis which includes all suspension components in detail
for manufacturing all the suspension components along with the technical
notes showing the math involved in how & why they designed it the way they
did.  I'm pretty sure these are still around and someone is just sitting on
them thinking they are collectible.  So if you want to hoard your precious
originals that is fine.  I don't need the originals.  Complete legible
to-scale copies will do, but there are to be no strings attached for how I
use this information.  I must see the goods before money changes hands, so
don't contact me asking me to mail small bills to a foreign P.O. Box.  This
deal is legitimate & up front.

In a few months I will be finished with this suspension project and won't
need these drawings, so if you want the reward then act soon.  Having them
will make my job easier and more certain, but I will do without if I must.
I may be contacted at the e-mail address whalt(at)

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 18
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:15:32 -0000
From: "dmcburn75" <>
Subject: Re brushing stainless steel panels

Has anyone had experience with re brushing the panels on thier car,
specifically after removing paint. I've heard that at the factory the
panels were brushed by simply using sandpaper. What are some methods
anyone is familiar with? I read in the back issues that Rob Grady
charges $500 a panel to re-brush. Is that accurate? Thanks in advance.


Message: 19
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:51:15 -0500
Subject: DeLorean blurb in US News & World Report


The new issue of US News & World report page 40 features a story on business CEO's that go down with the company, including DeLorean Motor Co and John DeLorean. 



Message: 20
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:51:57 -0500
From: Tony Pistachio <>
Subject: No engine cover

Would it hurt to drive the car with the engine cover removed while I repair
it? Would the heat of the engine do anything to the louvers? I never take it
out in the rain so I'm not worried about water.
Thanks for any input on this.

Tony Pistachio
#10781 BDX-6324
Wappingers Falls, NY


Message: 21
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 01:22:05 EST
Subject: Re: ETDOC get together next weekend

Alright, I will chime in at last, because I usually do. As everyone has said, 
it is going to be way too much fun in Gatlinburg this weekend. As most ETDOC 
events go, this is not going to be your ordinary Delorean meet. The club is 
garnering a reputation amongst those in the know as being the party of the 
Delorean world. I was just speaking to someone the other day in Pennsylvania 
about the ETDOC meet and he asked me if we really partied. Well, we get into 
a little trouble but nothing too bad. Just think of it as Hell's Angels BTTF 
style, j/k. Seriously though, the ETDOC does have more than it's fair share 
of fun when we get together. This will not be the same ole meet, talk, and 
buy something event. This is going to be people with a similar interest 
getting together and enjoying each other and the mystique of the Delorean. 
And, by the way, I drove the first part of the "Dragon" last week to check it 
out (I missed it the first time) and it is one heck of a road. It taught my 
3000GT a lesson or two!! It is time to get some real cars out on that road 
and put those bikers to shame. But, if that isn't reason enough to come, come 
to see Darren Decker prove that he actually owns a Delorean :).

John Weaver
RED DMC #10527

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 22
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:51:35 EST
Subject: Re: Re: door lights

       It's not impossable nor improbable to have a bad diode.  I found two 
open and one shorted diode in mine.  And there is no need to "tare into" 
anything if mine were typical.  They were practically in plain view at the 
front edge of the console.
       Don  vin 6860


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