From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 973
Date: Friday, April 05, 2002 9:45 AM

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There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Was Re: Idle speed blues Now Recalls
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

2. Re: FUEL ACCUMULATOR INSTALLATION
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. Fan Blower GRINDING!!
From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>

4. Re: Fan Blower Only #4 works
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

5. Re: Fan Blower GRINDING!!
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

6. Re: Re: Fan Blower Only #4 works
From: shain_at_dml_elecmods.com

7. Re: Fan Blower GRINDING!!
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

8. Re: Fan Blower Only #4 works
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

9. interior lights problem
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

10. Re: Fan Sequencer (delay box)
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

11. Re: Re: Re: Fan Sequencer (delay box)
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

12. Re: Re: Re: Fan Sequencer (delay box)
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

13. Re: interior lights problem
From: DHughes030_at_dml_aol.com

14. Re: Silicone-Waterhoses limited edition
From: billschaferabn_at_dml_aol.com

15. Re: FUEL ACCUMULATOR INSTALLATION
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

16. Re: radiator fan removal & replacement
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

17. Re: brake runout specs (revisited)
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

18. Re: Re: Fan Sequencer (delay box)
From: shain_at_dml_elecmods.com

19. Re: interior lights problem
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

20. Re: radiator fan removal & replacement
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

21. Fan Blower GRINDING!!
From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>

22. Re: Fan Blower Only #4 works
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:59:27 -0500
From: "Hank Eskin" <heskin_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Was Re: Idle speed blues Now Recalls

>> Midatlantic at their annual spring event offers inspections by one of 
>> It is coming up soon (April 26)

What are the details of this event?  I can't find anything on the site:

http://clubs.hemmings.com/deloreanmidatlantic/

-Hank Eskin  #1619





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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 15:06:00 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: FUEL ACCUMULATOR INSTALLATION

Your argument is moot. Most shops I know of at least for the first 
hour do not break it down i.e. you pay for the first full hour even if 
the job is done in 30 min. Some will be fair and if the job takes  90 
min will charge for 1 1/2 hours not 2. Since they are working on a 20 
year old car and have no idea what they are in for will not take it at 
a flat rate, this was meant for an experienced shop working on fairly 
new cars. Expect at least 1 hour, 2 would be fair.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., DHughes030_at_dml_a... wrote:
> I would not agree to do it for 1/2 hr. sight unseen, if I were the 
tech. I/ve 
> studied its location, even had the fuel return line attached to it  
rupture 
> and it took all of 30 min. to swap it out in that confined space. 
(it was a 
> side of the road repair) Be a little more generous than .5 HR or do 
it 
> yourself, your tech is trying to feed a family (or buy a Delorean) 
too.
>     Don VIN 6860




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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:02:40 -0500
From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>
Subject: Fan Blower GRINDING!!

I am having some headaches from my blower as well...
 
when i turn it on .. any position from off
 
SOMETHING is grinding like crazy from below the glove box..
 
 
suggestions?
 
help!?
 
thanks so much
 
Kenneth
05541
 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:16:31 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Fan Blower Only #4 works

Jason,

Replace the Fan Speed Resistor Part#101275 (parts manual 7/1/0 fig.) our
price is $26.56.

Regards,
DMC Joe/Help Club dmchelp_at_dml_att.net
Information & Store http://shopping.oraclesmallbusiness.com/dsvstore
DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv
770 631-4800

----- Original Message -----
From: "jason3625" <jason_at_dml_pcupgraders.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 3:15 PM
Subject: [DML] Fan Blower Only #4 works


> I have been reading some past posts about the internal heater/AC
> blowers however I did not seem to find some solid answers.  It seems
> like my D's blower motor only works on the highest level 1, 2 and 3
> do not seem to work and 4 is nothing to scream about.  Has any one
> had any similar problems with a fix?  Or maybe where to suggest to
> look 1st?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Jason





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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:49:07 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Fan Blower GRINDING!!

Kenneth,

The noise you are describing is produced by a corroded lower shaft bearing
inside the blower motor housing. This item is not repairable; you will have
to replace the entire blower motor Part #101273.

Regards,
DMC Joe/Help Club dmchelp_at_dml_att.net
Information & Store http://shopping.oraclesmallbusiness.com/dsvstore
DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv

----- Original Message -----
From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 11:02 AM
Subject: [DML] Fan Blower GRINDING!!


> I am having some headaches from my blower as well...
>
> when i turn it on .. any position from off
>
> SOMETHING is grinding like crazy from below the glove box..
>
>
> suggestions?
>
> help!?
>
> thanks so much
>
> Kenneth
> 05541






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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:01:12 -0500 (EST)
From: shain_at_dml_elecmods.com
Subject: Re: Re: Fan Blower Only #4 works

Jason,

Not to question DMCJoe, i had a similar problem on my car.  The ground wires on the relays for the fan speed had burnt very heavly on my car, and along with a bad relay i was having a similar problem.  New wire and a relay (replace the relays is a good idea, the fan speed is one of the most used relays in the car)and it works now.  

- Shain
#10140

----- In Response To -----

Jason,

Replace the Fan Speed Resistor Part#101275 (parts manual 7/1/0 fig.) our
price is $26.56.

Regards,
DMC Joe/Help Club dmchelp_at_dml_att.net
Information & Store http://shopping.oraclesmallbusiness.com/dsvstore
DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv
770 631-4800

----- Original Message -----
From: "jason3625" <jason_at_dml_pcupgraders.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 3:15 PM
Subject: [DML] Fan Blower Only #4 works


> I have been reading some past posts about the internal heater/AC
> blowers however I did not seem to find some solid answers.  It seems
> like my D's blower motor only works on the highest level 1, 2 and 3
> do not seem to work and 4 is nothing to scream about.  Has any one
> had any similar problems with a fix?  Or maybe where to suggest to
> look 1st?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Jason




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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 15:51:21 -0500
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Fan Blower GRINDING!!

Kenneth, Very common problem. The shaft gets worn and the blades start hitting the case and the bearings start making noise. I have the exact blower motor on the web site.
John hervey
www.specialTauto.com




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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 20:54:13 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Fan Blower Only #4 works

In general I disapprove of just replacing parts blindly. A complaint 
of no #4 fan speed could be caused by too many things from a defective 
fan speed switch to a wire not connected to a missing relay to a burnt 
connecter to the relay. You really have to do a little troubleshooting 
to try to narrow down the source of the problem. I think I would start 
by pulling the #4 speed relay and checking the wiring and if the 
proper voltages are present. You could also jump out the relay with a 
paper clip to verify power and wiring to the fan motor. With a test 
light or a meter you can make sure the fan speed switch is OK. On an 
older car you can never take anything for granted. I just read how 
someone bought a car in an auction and after buying it tried the 
wipers. Not only didn't they work but there was no motor or 
linkage! The wipers were just bolted on!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., shain_at_dml_e... wrote:
> Jason,
> 
> Not to question DMCJoe, i had a similar problem on my car.  The 
ground wires on the relays for the fan speed had burnt very heavly on 
my car, and along with a bad relay i was having a similar problem.  
New wire and a relay (replace the relays is a good idea, the fan speed 
is one of the most used relays in the car)and it works now.  
> 
> - Shain
> #10140
> 
> ----- In Response To -----
> 
> Jason,
> 
> Replace the Fan Speed Resistor Part#101275 (parts manual 7/1/0 fig.) 
our
> price is $26.56.
> 
> Regards,
> DMC Joe/Help Club dmchelp_at_dml_a...
> Information & Store http://shopping.oraclesmallbusiness.com/dsvstore
> DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv
> 770 631-4800
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jason3625" <jason_at_dml_p...>
> To: <dmcnews_at_dml_y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 3:15 PM
> Subject: [DML] Fan Blower Only #4 works
> 
> 
> > I have been reading some past posts about the internal heater/AC
> > blowers however I did not seem to find some solid answers.  It 
seems
> > like my D's blower motor only works on the highest level 1, 2 and 
3
> > do not seem to work and 4 is nothing to scream about.  Has any one
> > had any similar problems with a fix?  Or maybe where to suggest to
> > look 1st?
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Jason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please 
address:
> moderator_at_dml_d...
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------
> WSMMail Brought to you by Adgrafix!
> http://www.adgrafix.com




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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:10:25 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: interior lights problem

Hey all,

I'm having issues with my interior lights.  when i first bought the car, the 
lights didn't work correctly and the rear light was broken.  i bought the new 
glass lights from Houston way back then and that fixed the rear light so it 
would work in the 'always on' position but neither the front nor rear lights 
have worked correctly ever.  until today, the front light has only worked in 
the 'always' position, and the rear light has worked in both positions, 
however ONLY for the passenger side door! hmm!  Today i attempted to fix the 
situation so i pulled both lights out and checked the wiring.  the wires 
weren't correct according to the shop manual.  so i switched them around and 
now the lights are wired correctly.  however they only work in the 'always' 
position!  i cannot get either light to operate when the doors are open with 
the delay position.  

since the rear light used to work with the delay on the pass. side only, i 
therefore assume that my delay module is functioning.  AND, since my door 
lights work on both doors, and they shut off when i press the door switch, 
that means that my switches are good.  

one question on the door switches - should the ground wire be connected to 
the outside part of the switch and the colored wire be connected to the tab 
that moves with the switch?  i assume so.

where do i go from here????

Thanks!
Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 00:21:46 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fan Sequencer (delay box)

[Note to moderator: our discussions are getting pretty involved, but I have been receiving private e-mails on a daily basis asking questions and making helpful suggestions - it has surprised me how much interest Shain and I have kicked up!]

Hi Shain

First off, I have realised the source of the part number problems - You say RS to mean Radio Shack - I know RS to be the international reseller of engineering components and materials. rswww.com is always my first port of call for prices, data sheets, and the part numbers are  internationally recognised. Ironically I usually end up using Farnell though as they tend to be cheaper.

I have sent your plans to one of my friends who actually works in the electronics industry (unlike me) - he basically suggested you check your diagram because there are some glaring errors and as such the circuit will never work. Particularly one of your NPN transistors is drawn as a PNP and T2 seems to be controlled via a reverse biased base-emitter junction. The circuit as drawn, just plain won't work - sorry mate.

I have looked up the TIP 120 and it's a 5A NPN power transistor. Pretty much all trannys of this type are fully switchable with anything over 5V, and if you download the data sheet (from rswww.com) you'll see that it has an integral driver transistor already. You shouldn't need a 5A tranny in this application, but if it makes you happy :-) Still don't know why you'd need a series resistor - you'd need to find a relay with a DC resistance of some 2ohms before your TIP120 will pop.

>> The kick of the ac compressor (draw on the motor) was totaly overlooked by me (usualy i've drivin v8 were the kick isn't as noticed).

Hehe - I know what you mean. I drive a modern direct-injection Diesel which has very impressive torque figures. It too has twin electric cooling fans which both engage a the precise instant of the compressor. I've never felt it - I only know it does it because for a short time last year the compressor clutch gave a little squeak when it engaged!

>> Added an additional timer is a simple thing to do never the less.

Oh sure - it just means building the circuit twice and twiddling a couple of component values - this is precisely how I'm doing it.

>> All in all with some modifications and some good testing both of our designs will be helpful to all the do it themselfers on the dml.  I don't believe that i did so bad for a person who isn't an electronics buff.

Oh sure - you got further than anyone else and a lot quicker than I got around to it too! I've been pestering my former university friends with questions since I started this little "revision"!

>> I think for the moment i'm going to use the stock relay sockets and wire them with test spade connectors so i can test new designs and ideas very easly while maintaining a stock look.

Me too.

>> Were moving int he right direction currently.  Now to just make a replacement light dimming circuit ;)

Personally I'm moving towards a door-launcher interface for the Ultrastarters 2250M remote start system which still hasn't arrived (dammit!) and re-working the door lock module so it can all fit in the stock lock
module box.

Keep up the good work

Martin
#1458






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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 00:22:58 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Fan Sequencer (delay box)

Hi John

Not sure quite what you're getting at except to say "it doesn't bother me".
I think it's fair to say you're probably in the minority there, mate!
Otherwise the FanZilla wouldn't sell so well, and Shain and my little banter
wouldn't be attracting such off-list attention (I've had a couple of mails
each day for the past week since I started talking about my design).

John, we already know you can use a soldering iron, and both Shain and my
intentions have always been to make the design "open source". If you want to
make and sell my design (I can't speak for Shain) I wouldn't mind at all as
long as you make it clear the design is there for anyone to build.

At the end of the day, I'm enjoying building this thing as much as any
electronics hobbyist enjoys building flashing LEDs from a 555 timer...
except that this little project addresses several very real problems in the
DeLorean, and saves me some money at the same time.

As you may know, I've been on the DML for years, but only recently become an
owner. If it weren't for the DML I would not have become an enthusiast, nor
even found my car (I got it from the DMCNews for sale page, and bought it
with the help of a DML member). The DML is a completely selfless endeavour
in the truest spirit of the internet which I've benefitted from greatly over
time. In my small way, I want to give something back - and electrics is what
I'm good at *<;o)

Martin
#1458

dherv10_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

> Does all this mean that if I come up with an addition to the Fan Zilla, Like
> the Fan Fix I could call it the John Zilla Fix.
> All this sound great, but as most of you technical engineers know. It only
> takes Milli seconds for all this switching to take place and by the time the
> engine is doing all this recovering, and the fans are trying to figure out
> who's on first and come on is on second next and the compressor  is on first
> and third. .  It's over.  Milli seconds. It's like getting cut,  by the time
> you feel it, it's over.  Please don't let me interupt you guy's.  I alway's
> like watching engineers making all these complicated moves over almost
> nothing. Were talking milliseconds. By the time the engine felt the clutch on
> the compressor come on, it's over.
> John Hervey < :-)




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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 18:52:09 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Fan Sequencer (delay box)

Hey, Guy's and Martin, I know yall are good at electrical engineering, By the 
way Ya'll is Texan for You all. I'm just a dam got technician and a parts 
man. Ya'll design and I build. I just think and making light of the back and 
fourth engineering going on that a lot of people almost and including my self 
don't have a clue of what your doing.  If you want to switch on and off and 
delay here and there. Then design it and I will build it. But, 2n's and 3n's 
and diodes and pulsating, gating and all the electrical engineering again is 
not understood by a lot of people. 
Just having fun, don't take me to serious.
John



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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:19:36 EST
From: DHughes030_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: interior lights problem

  I have seen several people mentiom their rear interion lamp.  I have VIN  
6860, I don't have a rear interior lamp.  Who does?  Where is it?
        Don  



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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:16:45 EST
From: billschaferabn_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Silicone-Waterhoses limited edition

Kluas,

  I have been waiting for you to post. It's been a long time since I have 
seen you on the DML. I like your waterhose idea and will go that route later 
this summer. I would like to ask for your help on a project of mine. 
My Grand father Albert William Schafer was born in Germany and came to 
America between 1900 & 1920. He came from a town called Wirth Germany. i was 
told it is near Breman. I would like to find out if I still have relatives in 
that area but don't know how to go about it. Since you are from Germay i 
wonder if you have any ideas or suggestions on how to search for my missing 
relatives. My mother is 83 and would like to know more about her father. She 
was under 10 years old when her mom & Dad divorced and she went with her mom. 
So she knows very little about the Schafer sided of our family. I thought it 
would be a nice birthday present to give her if I can figure this all out. 
Thanks.

Bill



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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:20:47 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: FUEL ACCUMULATOR INSTALLATION

You might want to have the fuel lines at the accumulator replaced at the
same time.  The outer sheath of the OEM fuel lines get sticky, crack & fall
off with age.  The fittings that the lines hook to are easily damaged by
mechanics who are lazy or in a hurry.  If you cut them off with a razor
knife, you need to be very careful not to nick them or leave gouges that
will leak fuel.  (A previous owner did this to my car, and I had to replace
the fittings because I could not stop them from leaking!  Two of these
fittings are no longer available.)  The new lines have to be heated to be
pressed over the old fittings, and this takes some practice to do it right.
Rob Grady told me that the way he does it is to leave the old fittings on
the car, but cut the hoses off of them.  With the accumulator out of the
car, is a lot easier to remove the fittings from it.  Then to put new hoses
on the old fittings (that are still on the car) he heats the hose and then
very quickly reaches in the frame and presses the hose on the fitting.  I
used up about a foot of new fuel line just to perfect my technique of doing
it right while it was OFF the car.  I wouldn't try it Rob's way unless I had
a lot more practice doing it off the car.  If you heat the hose too much,
you make a mess.  If you don't heat it enough, then it won't go on all the
way.  I was just about ready to send my old fittings to Rob to have him melt
new hoses on them.

I didn't have any short wrenches on hand to reach the fitting on my
accumulator, so I used crow foot wrenches on the end of an extension &
ratchet.  It worked okay but was kind of clumsy.  The next time I do one,
I'm going to get a different variety of crow foot wrench -- the kind that is
also a line wrench.  This is like a hybrid between an open end wrench and a
box wrench.  It has an opening on the end to fit it over the fuel lines.
Then I would cut a rachet handle as short as it needs to fit in there (the
kind of ratchet that locks in both directions).

If you want to do your mechanic (and your car) a favor, spray the fittings
down with PB-Blaster.  This is a rust-disolving solvent that takes a few
hours to really work.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:49:25 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: radiator fan removal & replacement

> Removing the front mounts for the roll bar will allow the bar to drop away
> from the bottom of the fan assembly allowing easy access and removal of
the
> fan and radiator assembly.

I am disappointed to learn that I have to remove the radiator to get one of
the fan motors out.  At least I'm finding this out BEFORE I start the
project.

Today I squirted some white lithium grease into the hole at the bottom front
of the motor.  Before it "chirped" every time I spun it by hand.  When I was
done, it chirped about every 10th spin.  I since took a 60 mile trip today
and I think I only heard it squeak once, but I'm not sure.  Before I oiled
it, it would have a squealing attack about once every 20 miles.

Can anyone say how these motors come apart?  It looks like they should pull
apart if you remove the two nuts on the back, but I check the archives and
someone said that this didn't work.  Since John Hervey is selling rebuilt
ones on his website, I figure that it is possible.  Maybe I'll just let him
do it; although, that wouldn't be as much fun as doing it myself.  I am not
enthusiastic about buying one from a vendor for $260 when I can buy
something aftermarket for $180 less that will probably work better, i.e.,
use less current & have a higher CFM.

Does anyone know what the specs are of the OEM fans?  How many CFM do they
move?  Summit Racing has model PRM-19010, a 10" fan, 1,250 cfm rating for
$80.  Since I'm planning for a lot more horsepower someday (an engine swap)
I want all the cooling I can get especially considering all the customizing
that Bob Brandys did with using larger radiator pipes & such on his
conversion.

Walt        Tampa, FL




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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:06:08 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: brake runout specs (revisited)

I made another observation concerning my rear brake runout problem:  It
appears that a significant part (but not all) of the runout (wobble) is due
to the way that the rotor seats on the hub.  I don't know if this is due to
a bent or uneven hub or to a poorly made rotor.  (The problem is about the
same on both sides.)  I didn't check the rear wheels for runout, but plan to
soon.  I cleaned it all very thoroughly before I seated the rotor.

The wobble is bad enough that it almost makes adjusting the hand brake a
moot point.  I'm wondering now if the reason that one of my OEM parking
brake pads came apart is because it was getting slapped by the rotor runout.
(That would have been the OEM rotor at the time.)  If anyone is adjusting
their hand brakes, be sure to spin the rotor a complete revolution for
incase the runout is at an awkward spot.

The local autoparts store didn't have the exact size cottor pin to hold the
hand brake adjustment.  A 3/32 was too thin, and a 1/16 was almost too
thick.  There is no size in-between unless it's metric?  I managed to get
the 1/16 size through the holes with a little fussing.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:16:00 -0500 (EST)
From: shain_at_dml_elecmods.com
Subject: Re: Re: Fan Sequencer (delay box)

*****  Moderator's Note  *****
If anyone else is interested in helping Shain and Marting thrash this out, please
do so off list.  

Mike G  Moderator of the week
*****


Moderator Note:  This is my last email on this subject for the current moment.  I too have had a full mailbox of questions, but for the moment me and Martin are going to chatt of the list and discuss things.  

Martin,

My circuit was orgionaly drawn by me several years back when i was into electronics.  My notes say that i had to use a 75 ohm relay coil, i had no clue why and it has to be looked over to make sure.  The shcematic is drawn correctly, i use t1&t2 to work as a 8-9 volts zener diode, this is used for a high(er) turn on voltage for the darlington transistor (tip120).  I am aware about the npn, pnp switch.  I drew it this way to make it easy for the people watching to build, one of the reasons why i attached a diagram of the transistor below.  I recently added fuseable links to my design, elimanting the circuit breaker (as suggested).  Turns out it could be a much better idea incase a motor blows at it won't take down the other.  We'll talk off the list for now on to slow down the congestion.

- Shain
shain_at_dml_elecmods.com
#10140
PA Lis # TIMELES

----- In Response To -----

[Note to moderator: our discussions are getting pretty involved, but I have been receiving private e-mails on a daily basis asking questions and making helpful suggestions - it has surprised me how much interest Shain and I have kicked up!]

Hi Shain

First off, I have realised the source of the part number problems - You say RS to mean Radio Shack - I know RS to be the international reseller of engineering components and materials. rswww.com is always my first port of call for prices, data sheets, and the part numbers are  internationally recognised. Ironically I usually end up using Farnell though as they tend to be cheaper.

I have sent your plans to one of my friends who actually works in the electronics industry (unlike me) - he basically suggested you check your diagram because there are some glaring errors and as such the circuit will never work. Particularly one of your NPN transistors is drawn as a PNP and T2 seems to be controlled via a reverse biased base-emitter junction. The circuit as drawn, just plain won't work - sorry mate.

I have looked up the TIP 120 and it's a 5A NPN power transistor. Pretty much all trannys of this type are fully switchable with anything over 5V, and if you download the data sheet (from rswww.com) you'll see that it has an integral driver transistor already. You shouldn't need a 5A tranny in this application, but if it makes you happy :-) Still don't know why you'd need a series resistor - you'd need to find a relay with a DC resistance of some 2ohms before your TIP120 will pop.

>> The kick of the ac compressor (draw on the motor) was totaly overlooked by me (usualy i've drivin v8 were the kick isn't as noticed).

Hehe - I know what you mean. I drive a modern direct-injection Diesel which has very impressive torque figures. It too has twin electric cooling fans which both engage a the precise instant of the compressor. I've never felt it - I only know it does it because for a short time last year the compressor clutch gave a little squeak when it engaged!

>> Added an additional timer is a simple thing to do never the less.

Oh sure - it just means building the circuit twice and twiddling a couple of component values - this is precisely how I'm doing it.

>> All in all with some modifications and some good testing both of our designs will be helpful to all the do it themselfers on the dml.  I don't believe that i did so bad for a person who isn't an electronics buff.

Oh sure - you got further than anyone else and a lot quicker than I got around to it too! I've been pestering my former university friends with questions since I started this little "revision"!

>> I think for the moment i'm going to use the stock relay sockets and wire them with test spade connectors so i can test new designs and ideas very easly while maintaining a stock look.

Me too.

>> Were moving int he right direction currently.  Now to just make a replacement light dimming circuit ;)

Personally I'm moving towards a door-launcher interface for the Ultrastarters 2250M remote start system which still hasn't arrived (dammit!) and re-working the door lock module so it can all fit in the stock lock
module box.

Keep up the good work

Martin
#1458





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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 23:00:46 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: interior lights problem

> I don't have a rear interior lamp.  Who does?  Where is it?

Are you serious?  You haven't found that yet?  (big smile)  Well, I suppose
that if it doesn't work anyway then you might not know.  It's right under
the rear window in the center.  It's just like the one above the rear view
mirror.

So did you know you have a secret compartment behind the driver's seat?  I
had no idea that there is the knob that dims the gauge lights until I read
the manual.  The console lights worked, so I figured there was an electrical
problem.  We should add some of this stuff to the "newbie" section if it
isn't already there.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 04:44:04 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: radiator fan removal & replacement

DMC Joe is corrrect in that you can remove the fans by dropping the 
sway bar by removing the brackets at the frame. This would remove the 
need to remove the radiater. The drawback to this shortcut is the 
possibility of affecting the alignment. I don't know how large the 
possibility is but it is there. IMHO a 20 year old radiater is on 
borrowed time anyway so replacing it is good insurance. Dropping the 
sway bar and getting an alignment is probably OK too since most cars 
never had a good alignment and could use it anyhow. In any case the 
only good cure for noisy fans is replacement or at least rebuilding 
the old ones with new bearings. Even if you could get them quieter 
they will probably draw too much current and now you risk a meltdown 
of your electrical system! The cooling fans are one of the largest 
electrical loads in the entire electrical system of the car. Only the 
starter and the rear defogger are bigger and neither runs as long!
David Teitelbaum
10757
Still waiting for my recall!!!!!! But my Jeep has just been recalled! 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> > Removing the front mounts for the roll bar will allow the bar to 
drop away
> > from the bottom of the fan assembly allowing easy access and 
removal of
> the
> > fan and radiator assembly.
> 





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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 00:13:42 -0500
From: "Digital Devices" <delorean_at_dml_digital-devices.net>
Subject: Fan Blower GRINDING!!



I am having some headaches from my blower as well...

when i turn it on .. any position from off

SOMETHING is grinding like crazy from below the glove box..


suggestions?

help!?

thanks so much

Kenneth
05541









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Message: 22
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:55:07 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Fan Blower Only #4 works

David,

You said:
        "In general I disapprove of just replacing parts blindly."

I assume you may be referring to my straight forward analysis that the
problem was due to a defective fan speed resistor. My response is based on
both knowledge of the circuit and experience with servicing a specific
problem. In 16 years of servicing DeLorean electrical systems all instances
of fan motors working on speed # 4  only, is a result of a defective #3
resistor or broken connection in the resistor set. Whenever I suggest a
single component as the cause of a problem I am quite certain my prognosis
is correct.

Yes; you are absolutely correct when you say: "You really have to do a
little troubleshooting to try to narrow down the source of the problem."
That's OK for people like you, me and our electrically knowledgeable
counterparts, unfortunately many list members have little experience in
electrical trouble shooting. Suggesting to jump a relay with a paper clip is
far beyond what most owners fell comfortable attempting.

My suggestions take into account that many owner's don't mind spending a few
dollars if they can correct a problem safely with a minimum of effort.

Regards,
DMC Joe/Help Club dmchelp_at_dml_att.net
Information & Store http://shopping.oraclesmallbusiness.com/dsvstore
DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv

----- Original Message -----
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] Fan Blower Only #4 works


> In general I disapprove of just replacing parts blindly. A complaint
> of no #4 fan speed could be caused by too many things from a defective
> fan speed switch to a wire not connected to a missing relay to a burnt
> connecter to the relay. You really have to do a little troubleshooting
> to try to narrow down the source of the problem. I think I would start
> by pulling the #4 speed relay and checking the wiring and if the
> proper voltages are present. You could also jump out the relay with a
> paper clip to verify power and wiring to the fan motor. With a test
> light or a meter you can make sure the fan speed switch is OK. On an
> older car you can never take anything for granted. I just read how
> someone bought a car in an auction and after buying it tried the
> wipers. Not only didn't they work but there was no motor or
> linkage! The wipers were just bolted on!
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
>
>
>
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., shain_at_dml_e... wrote:
> > Jason,
> >
> > Not to question DMCJoe, i had a similar problem on my car.  The
> ground wires on the relays for the fan speed had burnt very heavly on
> my car, and along with a bad relay i was having a similar problem.
> New wire and a relay (replace the relays is a good idea, the fan speed
> is one of the most used relays in the car)and it works now.
> >
> > - Shain
> > #10140
> >
> > ----- In Response To -----
> >
> > Jason,
> >
> > Replace the Fan Speed Resistor Part#101275 (parts manual 7/1/0 fig.)
> our
> > price is $26.56.
> >
> > Regards,
> > DMC Joe/Help Club dmchelp_at_dml_a...
> > Information & Store http://shopping.oraclesmallbusiness.com/dsvstore
> > DeLorean Website Directory www.dmc.tv
> > 770 631-4800
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jason3625" <jason_at_dml_p...>
> > To: <dmcnews_at_dml_y...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 3:15 PM
> > Subject: [DML] Fan Blower Only #4 works
> >
> >
> > > I have been reading some past posts about the internal heater/AC
> > > blowers however I did not seem to find some solid answers.  It
> seems
> > > like my D's blower motor only works on the highest level 1, 2 and
> 3
> > > do not seem to work and 4 is nothing to scream about.  Has any one
> > > had any similar problems with a fix?  Or maybe where to suggest to
> > > look 1st?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Jason
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please
> address:
> > moderator_at_dml_d...
> >
> > To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------
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>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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