From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 978
Date: Monday, April 08, 2002 7:02 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com

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There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: HOT START HELL -- Nothing Works!
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

2. Strange shaky sliding steering...
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>

3. DeLorean Sighting: Maryland
From: "Jeremy D." <thesmokingman_at_dml_comcast.net>

4. Re: Re: Memphis Delorean Show
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

5. Mirrored Tint
From: "Phillips Jeff 2dLt AFCA/GCF" <jeff.phillips_at_dml_scott.af.mil>

6. Re: Door Black sticker
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

7. Re: Re: HOT START HELL -- Nothing Works!
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>

8. Re: Need Some Club Advice
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

9. Re: random comment
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

10. Dead tachometer
From: "cdrugly" <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

11. Unusual mention of DMC-Houston
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>

12. Re: Strange shaky sliding steering...
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>

13. Re: Strange shaky sliding steering...
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

14. Re: radiator fan removal & replacement
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

15. Re: HOT START HELL -- Nothing Works!
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

16. RE: grand delusions book
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>

17. Re: Dead tachometer
From: Paul Salsbury <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:49:15 EDT
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: HOT START HELL -- Nothing Works!

Noah, Your absolutely right, But, If the car is running then there has to be 
fuel pressure. 
Other causes of fuel covering the FP is it's leaking back into the boot if 
the clamp isn't tight around the return line and you have an over full or 
full tank of gas. Slight leak at the dome nut is also correct. 
Just as an FYI, The fuel pump electric motor is turning in gas inside the 
pump. You would think it would blow up, but I have never heard of one doing 
it.
The adjustment I recommend is to compensate for wear over the years. Slight 
tweak a lot of the times will stop the hunting and again will compensate for 
CPR pressure and wear. You can still have fuel pressure around the system. 
But, when you trying to start the car and the control plunger doesn't rise. 
No start. Vacuum is also a culprit.
John hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/fuelsystems.shtml     

<< 
 All the fuel in the system was draining back into the fuel pump boot
 (not to mention the fact that fuel was spraying everywhere while the car
 was running). No pressure == no hotstart. Retorqued the dome nut and
 things *seem* to be okay; juries still out, but it's definite *better* at
 the very least.
 
 Sometimes is really *is* the simple things. >>



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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 01:53:47 +0200
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_online.no>
Subject: Strange shaky sliding steering...

Ever since I got my DeLorean, I have noticed that a shaky steering appear quite frequently at low speeds combined with downhill driving, and I'd like to know what causes this.

The car is aligned, and the steering is tight. The car has had the safety recall on the front suspension/balljoint reinforcement. The car is lowered. There are no problems with the steering going at very high speeds, the car goes straight forward like a train on tracks, I can let go of the steering wheel and the car continues straight forward with no pulling to either left or right. 

My problem occurs only at very low speed or in a standstill downhill while turning the steering wheel, for instance standing still in a downhill/driving slowly and at the same time making a left or right turn. The front will then sort of "slide" on the front wheels - as if it gives way - and the steering wheel will go all the way to one of the sides.
Strange thing is, after I make the turn and speeding up, everything is back to normal.

What I also find strange when I think of it, is that the lower balljoints have been replaced by my garage 2 times since 1999! Are the NOS balljoints of poor quality, or are there other things that may affect the lower balljoints' lifetime?
To me it seems that these balljoints tend to wear out very quickly. I trust my garage, so when they say I need new balljoints, I order them from the US.

I notice the steering problem everytime I reverse out of my driveway at low speed. The steering seems to have a will of its own. When reversing, and when not holding the steering wheel tight, the car follows the surface of the road, making the steering wheel shake to left and right. After reversing out of my driveway, I have to drive down a very little hill (1st gear) towards an intersection and then either turn left or right. Often I have to wait for oncoming traffic, so the car stands still downhill. 

The wheel tend to slide sideways when I start to drive forward and making a turn - just as if the weight of the whole car lays on the front wheels which in turn cannot handle the weight/pressure from the engine in the back. Is it suppose to be like this? Often when I have serviced the car, it tends to be a bit more tight, but very soon its back where it always has been. Don't tell me that you have to tighten up the steering every year?

The reason I ask is that my other car (a Volvo) does not do this (or any other car I have driven). On other cars, the steering is tight.

Has anyone else experienced this or is it just my DeLorean?

I'm not a mechanic, but if this is a common problem my mechanic won't have to spend lots of time figuring out what causes this. I'm sure that some things are not like they should be.  Looking through the parts manual, I find that there are upper balljoints and of course wheel bearings. When should these items be replaced?

I have recently ordered the balljoint reinforcement collar kit from PJ Grady. Would installation of this make my problems go away?

Hope to find a solution to this annoying problem.

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:09:09 -0400
From: "Jeremy D." <thesmokingman_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: DeLorean Sighting: Maryland

This past Saturday (April 6), I was on my way to a local car show in the 
North Beach/Chesapeake beach area
when I spotted the rear of another DeLorean passing by on a side street. 
I turned off and tried to follow it, but
wasn't successful. If your the owner of that car Id appreciate if you 
drop me a line. TIA

-Jeremy
10842





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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 20:12:25 EDT
From: kkoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Memphis Delorean Show

gee this is flattering 
I think I will register now LOL
Thanks Guys 
you did wear me out Friday night 

Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:53:03 -0500
From: "Phillips Jeff 2dLt AFCA/GCF" <jeff.phillips_at_dml_scott.af.mil>
Subject: Mirrored Tint

Has anyone used the new mirror tint on their DeLorean?  If so I'd like to see a few pictures.  My DeLorean will be getting tint this summer and I'm exploring the options.

Jeff
#10544



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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 20:11:40 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Door Black sticker

I made my own sticker from a large sheet I bought at a motorcycle shop.
They sell them so dirt bike racers can put custom graphics on their bikes.
The only problem with this stuff is it appeared to be matte finish while it
was inside the plastic bag, but when I took it out it was very high gloss.
To fix that, I just ruffed it up with a Scotch-Brite pad.  Now it has the
same finish as the stainless.  I think it looks better than OEM.  Sure it's
not concours (let's not go there :-) But it has increased the coolness
factor of my ride by at least another point.

Walt    Tampa, FL




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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:24:10 -0500
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Re: HOT START HELL -- Nothing Works!

i have heard that the gas its self is not flammable it is the gas fumes that are
flammable that's why you haven't heard about the pumps blowing up i suppose.

mark

dherv10_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

> Noah, Your absolutely right, But, If the car is running then there has to be
> fuel pressure.
> Other causes of fuel covering the FP is it's leaking back into the boot if
> the clamp isn't tight around the return line and you have an over full or
> full tank of gas. Slight leak at the dome nut is also correct.
> Just as an FYI, The fuel pump electric motor is turning in gas inside the
> pump. You would think it would blow up, but I have never heard of one doing
> it.
> The adjustment I recommend is to compensate for wear over the years. Slight
> tweak a lot of the times will stop the hunting and again will compensate for
> CPR pressure and wear. You can still have fuel pressure around the system.
> But, when you trying to start the car and the control plunger doesn't rise.
> No start. Vacuum is also a culprit.
> John hervey
> http://www.specialtauto.com/fuelsystems.shtml
>
> <<
>  All the fuel in the system was draining back into the fuel pump boot
>  (not to mention the fact that fuel was spraying everywhere while the car
>  was running). No pressure == no hotstart. Retorqued the dome nut and
>  things *seem* to be okay; juries still out, but it's definite *better* at
>  the very least.
>
>  Sometimes is really *is* the simple things. >>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 20:52:06 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Need Some Club Advice

> As a club, we are struggling with
> attendance at most of our functions, and we just can't figure out
> why.

Eh, quit your whining, Toby!  :-)  No, seriously, we have quite an
attendance problem in central Florida, too.  I think the most DeLoreans I
have ever seen in one place here was 5 (including mine).  I have only found
3 DeLoreans "in the wild", ever.  And I am the observant type.

If you want to increase your attendance..... I have a suggestion.  I owned
my DeLorean for around 6 months before I had ever heard of the DML!  The
only vendor I knew about was DeLorean One, and that was through referral
from a local import mechanic.  A few months later a local kid who was
admiring my car mentioned PJ Grady online.  That was the first referral that
panned out.  Once online, I found Tamir's web site (who couldn't, right?)
and asked him for technical books other than the OEM manuals.  He referred
me to the DML, and now the list has another (sometimes obnoxious)
contributor.  Cool.  If you want to get people involved, advertise the DML &
your local club.  In Florida we're fixen to search the local vehicle
registration data base.  It costs a few cents a name, and it would flush out
every DeLorean registered in the state.  The first time I got a Camaro
catalogue in the mail, I wondered how they found out.  Then I got a camper,
and (beep) loads of junk comes in the mail weekly for RV sales & camping.
I'm sure your state will sell you a compilation of DeLorean registrations
for cheap.  Then send a mass mailing with a postage paid envelope.  (And an
advert that you buy DeLoreans in any condition.)  You might get some more
cars back into circulation.

Walt


----- Original Message -----
From: "tmpintnl" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 12:56 AM
Subject: [DML] Need Some Club Advice


> Hello List - This request may be a little of the beaten path, but we
> need some help up here in the Northwest.  Some of you may have caught
> on that I am an officer with the Pacific Northwest DeLorean Club,
> based in the Seattle area.  As a club, we are struggling with
> attendance at most of our functions, and we just can't figure out
> why.  We offer tech sessions during the year, long drives, brunches,
> picnics, parties, and 3-day weekends at beautiful locations.  We also
> support several large parades, and organized car shows.  The big
> Question - How do we get more people to show up and have fun with
> our "core" group?  Is it just our club, or do others have a similar
> problem?  Last year, we even bought brunch for all who showed up at
> the Embassy Suites for a wonderful Sunday Brunch.  Seven or eight
> cars showed up, out of over a hundred cars in the club!  If anybody
> out there has any experiences with this phenomenon, and has found the
> answers ... please let me know!  It may benefit other clubs who have
> representatives on the List.  Thank you so much for your thoughts and
> ideas.
>
> Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
> VP - PNDC
> Winged1
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>




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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 21:03:24 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: random comment

> So why do we even need a rear defrost
> anyway!?! I've never even tried to turn mine on, its unnecessary.

It's a government safety issue.  It varies state-by-state in the US.  Some
states require all new cars sold in their state to have rear window defog.
Some don't.  On DeLoreans, it was probably easier to equip all cars with
rear defog than to make it optional.  They were under a lot of pressure to
get into production quickly.  And now people in sunny Florida like me are
ready to buy expensive reproduction switches just to not have another thing
on the car that's broken.  Cha-ching$

Walt    Tampa, FL






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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 03:06:25 -0000
From: "cdrugly" <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: Dead tachometer

I did some work this weekend... changed the engine oil, tranny oil, 
oil cleaned pressure sender and replaced oil pressure sensor. When I 
got in the car after waiting 24 hours for the tranny oil to siphon in 
(next time I'll buy a pump), the tachometer is dead. Everything else 
is fine. Even my oil pressure reading is correct (as opposed to 80+). 
Could I have knocked something loose? I know there's an electrical or 
mechanical connection somewhere that sends RPMs to the tach, I just 
can't find it in my repair manual.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?




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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:52:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: William T Wilson <fluffy_at_dml_snurgle.org>
Subject: Unusual mention of DMC-Houston

on www.bluesnews.com, a computer online gaming site.  The DMC Warehouse
Move is the Link of the Day :}

Since bluesnews.com gets over 100,000 hits per day, this may increase
traffic somewhat.  Nothing like some good publicity :}




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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 22:27:37 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Re: Strange shaky sliding steering...

To check your ball joints, lift the front of the car off the ground so that
the wheels are hanging.  Then shake the wheels in two directions.  Check for
play top-to-bottom (push top in, pull bottom out & then do the opposite).  I
don't know what the official tolerance is (or even if there is one) but if
you can make the wheel wobble more than 2 or 3 mm then you obviously have a
problem -- either a bad wheel bearing (which then you would probably hear
grumbling) or bad ball joints (again).  I think a reasonable tollerance
(especially on a DeLorean) should be well under 1mm.

As stupid as this may sound, make sure that your mechanic is putting grease
in the new ball joints that he installs and that these parts are the right
ones.  I have had this happen to me on a non-D.  I go to lube the chassis
and notice that all the fittings on the new steering rack were dry.  This
wasn't a DeLorean, so don't go looking for grease zerks on your steering
rack.  But the work was done by a professional shop.  Since then I have
bought a better car that I can work on by myself.  And if I get stuck, I
have plenty of friends to ask.  :-)  DeLoreans -- a common sense choice for
the DIY'er.

Walt




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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 04:19:12 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Strange shaky sliding steering...

Check the air presssure in your tires, 23 psi front and 30 psi rear. 
It sounds like you might have a thrust angle problem in the rear. Have 
the shop check the rear alignment and spin balance all four tires. If 
that doesn't help find another shop because the shop you are going to 
is missing something. This could also be caused by a defect in your 
tires. Radials can exhibit a tendency to run rough at low speeds.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> Ever since I got my DeLorean, I have noticed that a shaky steering 
appear quite frequently at low speeds combined with downhill driving, 





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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 04:35:19 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: radiator fan removal & replacement

There are several ways to adjust "unadjustable" things. For instance 
HEIGHT is an important alignment adjustment. Shims can be added to 
change castor. Toe is easy, just turn the tie rod ends but that also 
affects centering so maybe you have to turn both tie rod ends. Don't 
forget rear alignment (thrust angle) as that has a dramatic affect on 
the steering. Tire pressure can affect steering and alignment. Weight 
distribution affects alignment. My point is there are many things that 
can affect alignment, many ARE adjustable. Most cars are set up for a 
normal? weighted driver and no passengers 1/2 tank of gas and no 
luggage. If you change these assumptions dramatically i.e. adding a 
lot of weight as either passengers and or luggage you change the 
alignment. In airplanes this is known as weight and balance and it is 
something you always keep in mind. On cars it is less important but 
still important. The Delorean was engineered with small changes in 
weight and balance being a 2 person car with limited carrying 
capacity. This means you can quickly find yourself outside the 
allowable limits if you overload the car.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> 
> 
> The only adjustment for aligning the front suspension of the 
DeLorean is
> toe-in. The sway bar does hold the caster adjustment but there is 
only one
> way to secure the sway bar and there is no adjusting capability 
built into
> it. In other words you can remove the front sway bar mounts and 
re-install
> them without affecting alignment. Just be sure to install the rubber 
bushing
> the same way as they were with the sway bar offset towards the front 
of the
> car. I would suggest heating the bolts with a propane torch prior to
> removing them as they were installed using green locktight and the 
heat will
> soften that. Otherwise you could have a problem with the threads in 
the
> captive nuts in the frame.
> 
> Bruce Benson
> 
> > DMC Joe is corrrect in that you can remove the fans by dropping 
the
> > sway bar by removing the brackets at the frame. This would remove 
the
> > need to remove the radiater. The drawback to this shortcut is the
> > possibility of affecting the alignment. I don't know how large the
> > possibility is but it is there.




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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 04:52:02 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: HOT START HELL -- Nothing Works!

If you did the plug swap thing then you proved out all problems except 
the reason for not maintaining system rest pressure. For some reason 
you are not holding system rest pressure. You need to determine what 
element in the fuel system is letting the pressure down. Refer to 
D:01:14. There could be a fuel leak, bad check valve on the fuel pump, 
bad fuel accumulater, or the fuel distributer.Since you said you 
replaced most of these items the only obvious choices are either leaks 
or the fuel distributer. I reccomend getting a fuel pressure gauge 
setup and trying to narrow this down as it is possible in changing 
some parts one of them may be defective as even new parts can either 
be bad or go bad. A slight leak at the fuel pump may go unnoticed but 
it allows the system rest pressure to drop so you cannot tolerate ANY 
leaks anywhere in the fuel system. Never "tweak" the mixture screw in 
the metering unit. Once you touch it it can only be properly set on an 
analyzer and besides that won't solve the problem. Be careful working 
on fuel injection systems because if you have even a minor leak it can 
be invisible but the fuel comes out and vaporizes immediatly and if 
ignited becomes a miniature blowtorch. Fuel injection systems usually 
operate at high pressures as opposed to the older carbureated systems 
which only run at about 5 psi.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., id <ionicdesign_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> i have heard that the gas its self is not flammable it is the gas 
fumes that are





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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 09:31:58 +0100
From: "Chris Parnham" <chrisparnham_at_dml_cwcom.net>
Subject: RE: grand delusions book

I only paid 20 Dollars (US), for mine shipped all the way to the UK.

Chris P DOC UK


-----Original Message-----
From: id [mailto:ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com]
Sent: 08 April 2002 00:02
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] grand delusions book


is this book really rare enough to sell for $50?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1091262429

i know stainless steel illusions usually goes for $125 but i thaught that
grand
delusions usualy goes for around  $5 to $10 let me know if i am wrong.

thanks
mark



T





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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:05:13 +0100 (BST)
From: Paul Salsbury <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Dead tachometer

Theres a lead that goes onto the distributer that
feeds to the tacho, you may have disconected that one
.

Cheers
Paul
 #6463


 --- cdrugly <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com> wrote: > I did
some work this weekend... changed the engine
> oil, tranny oil, 
> oil cleaned pressure sender and replaced oil
> pressure sensor. When I 
> got in the car after waiting 24 hours for the tranny
> oil to siphon in 
> (next time I'll buy a pump), the tachometer is dead.
> Everything else 
> is fine. Even my oil pressure reading is correct (as
> opposed to 80+). 
> Could I have knocked something loose? I know there's
> an electrical or 
> mechanical connection somewhere that sends RPMs to
> the tach, I just 
> can't find it in my repair manual.
> 
> Can anyone point me in the right direction?
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating
> team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 
>  

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