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Subject: [DML] Digest Number 994
Date: Saturday, April 20, 2002 9:38 AM

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There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Fuel tank made from Stainless steel?
From: "Sean Howley" <>

2. Re: Fuel tank made from Stainless steel?
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

3. Memphis from Canada
From: "Marvin" <>

4. Re: Re: Fuel tank made from Stainless steel?
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

5. Re: fir trees/post trim
From: "Walter Coe" <>

6. Re: Dual Key System Vin #'s
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

7. CO adjustment using a dwell meter?
From: "Dan B" <>

8. Re: Door Handle (Inside)
From: Scott Cagle <>

9. Re: Defroster switches..
From: "janvdwouw" <>

10. Re: Hot Fan Breaker... Fire would be bad.

11. Rear license plate holster...
From: "Digital Devices" <>

12. my 134a conversion begins...

13. Fuel Pumps wanted
From: "dherv10" <>

14. turn signal mounts

15. Re: Hot Fan Breaker... Fire would be bad.
From: "Walter Coe" <>

16. Re: The Resurrection of Vixen Continues...
From: "Walter Coe" <>

17. Re: The Resurrection of Vixen Continues...

18. Re: Re: Fuel tank made from Stainless steel?
From: "Hank Eskin" <>

19. Re: Dual Key System Vin #'s
From: "Walter Coe" <>

20. Re: auto transmission pan gasket
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:29:47 -0400
From: "Sean Howley" <>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank made from Stainless steel?

Instead of producing a stainless tank to make room for insulation, etc. as
well as reducing the volume of the tank, have you considered installing a
fuel radiator on the return line?  Summit Racing has a dual pass radiator
meant for this purpose.  I have thought about using this myself, but like
yourself, I am up to my throat with projects.  I do not think that
installing this would be too difficult other than locating a place to
install it.  You will obviously not install it behind the water radiator, so
it would be necessary to locate a place where "clean" air could be easily
directed to the cooling fins.  This would allow you to not mess with
fabricating a new tank, reducing the volume, and screwing with insulating
everything.  Just a thought.

Sean Howley


Message: 2
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:44:28 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank made from Stainless steel?

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_y..., "Walter Coe" <Whalt_at_dml_a...> wrote:
I thought I would mention this
> idea to you (and the rest of the group) for suggestions.  In order 
to reduce
> the noisy fuel pump problems caused by hot fuel, I'm thinking 
about a new
> fuel tank made from stainless.

In all likelyness, a new gas tank is not going to solve the 
problems of a noisy fuel pump. I've had an idea myself about 
fixing this, but spare time has not been plentiful lately. Let's take 
a look at the problem that causes the noise:

1. The high pressue line on the fuel pump is touching the 
fiberglass underbody, and thus transmits the vibrations that 
resonate throughout the car. Solution: Reposition the pump to 
avoid contact, or simply shove a foam cusion between the line 
and the hose and the underbody.

2. Gasoline gets hot, softens the pickup hose on the pump, and 
negative pressure inside the hose causes it to collapse. Thus 
the fuel pump is starved of liquid to lubricate it, and it begins to 

Problem A: We can't keep the gasoline cool, it WILL heat up from 
ambient air temp alone, if not the coolant lines, the front radiator 
exhaust, or the heat from the engine that the warm gasoline in 
the return lines bring. So nevermind trying to cool fuel. Deflectors 
for the front radiator are a waste of time, materials, and vehicle 
weight. The prevent high flow exhaust from the front radiator, and 
they can cause a pressure lock-up at speeds over 70MPH as I 
have been told.

Problem B: The pickup hose is collapsing. We know that either 
old soft rubber, or general heat is the cause. Replacing the hose 
is an option, but it just goes bad again, and the circle returns. A 
spring inside of the hose has been the only viable option so far. I 
think it's a great idea, but I know it is not the best. A common 
myth is that the spring will rust, this is NOT true. But, if you have 
ever installed one, you know that it can be a major pain! In 
addition, the if the spring is not streched properly, it will 
straighten the hose, and can cause a kink. So installing one has 
to be a science.

If we can't build a better mouse trap, then why bother? The best 
way to solve a problem is to prevent it from happening in the first 
place. So rather than catch that mouse, let's just throw some 
cheese over the nieghbor's wall so it will go away. In other 
words, let's get rid of our problem: The pick-up hose!

Rather than connect the pick-up hose, just extend the baffle to 
reach under the fuel pump, and attach the fuel pickup screen to 
the bottom! Problem solved! No more noise!

Ideas, comments?

vin 6585 "X"


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:57:05 -0400
From: "Marvin" <>
Subject: Memphis from Canada

Leaving London, Ontario late Wednesday afternoon June12 / 02 for Memphis. Will wait until Thursday AM if any other cars want to join up and travel together, or will meet en route. Please contact. 

was '83 #????, was '81 #4239, now '83 #17707

Marvin Stein
Printed Drinkware Company
924 Dundas Sreet
London, Ontario, Canada N5W 3A1
email: marv(AT)
tel:  519-434-1666
fax: 519-434-7071

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 4
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:26:18 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: Re: Fuel tank made from Stainless steel?

Aluminium is a better conductor of heat than stainless - it's the reason carpet will
"feel" warmer than a tiled floor when at the same temperature. A tank made from ally will
heat/cool much faster. It's why your hot water tanks are made from copper which conducts
heat even better than ally. It's so little energy is wasted heating up the pipes/tank in
a system DESIGNED to heat the fluid within it. The stock tank is a better insulator than
a stainless or ally one would be.

The stock tank is a superb material and was designed that way for crash-worthiness.


Farrar Hudkins wrote:

> /lurk mode cancel
> Hi Walt,
> A stainless fuel tank sounds wonderful. Have you considered aluminum? I
> have no experience in metallurgy (hint: somebody who does please help me
> here) but aluminum always feels cooler to the touch than stainless,
> according to my hands anyway. It also might be less expensive! However,
> if aluminum is too weak, my question becomes moot.
> Okay, two posts in one day is more than enough for me.
> /lurk mode engage
> - Farrar


Message: 5
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:34:17 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: fir trees/post trim

> My "A" post trim fell off the interior of my door the other day...and
> for good reason...all the fir trees are completely worn out! I have
> new fir trees on hand. Anyone had success replacing these on the A
> Post Trim, and if!

I have had a similar problem with my A-post trim.  I made the mistake of
replacing two of the fir trees that were broke off because I thought they
broke accidentally.  Then when I tried to re-install the trim I noticed that
the holes in the stainless were never drilled!  What got me started on this
project is that besides the loose trim, the upholstery came unglued on one
side and was hanging down.  So I reglued it, and now it is hanging down

I recently repaired a similar problem with my passenger door arm rest and am
going to use the same technique on my A-post trim.  The cause is that the
upholstery was cut too narrow to provide enough surface to wrap around and
adequately hold the glue.  My fix for this (to preserve the original
upholstery) is to sew an extension on the edge.  Since this is only on the
edge of the fabric, it isn't visible from the outside.

As for the two fur trees that didn't have mating holes in the stainless, I
drilled holes there.  I wanted to be sure that it didn't come loose again.
Apparently the reason why the holes were never drilled is because spot welds
are very close to where the holes need to be.  I figure that they didn't
want to risk drilling out the spot welds and weakening the door frame.  In
order to get new fir trees in there you either need to peel the upholstery
back to stick it in from the back side or cut a slot on the inside.  The
slot method has the advantage of being able to slightly reposition the fir
tree to make it in the hole.

If you go drilling new holes in your door frame, be careful not to push
through and cause dents in the exterior stainless.  I put a short piece of
low pressure fuel hose over the drill bit to stop it from penetrating very
deep.  When doing any work on the front of your door, put a large pad over
your windshield to be sure that you don't accidentally drop anything that
could break it.  I learned my lesson when I was working on the side mirror
and dropped a mirror glass that did a kamikaze act on my windshield.
Luckily it didn't hurt the windshield.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 6
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:27:08 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: Dual Key System Vin #'s

Shain the early door locks are about one-and-a-quarter inches in diameter and are black.
The keys are short and stubby compared to the ignition. The later locks are smaller and
silver in appearance.

#1458 (early 2-key)

shainbrannan wrote:

> Hello,
> I was looking on Pj Grady's web site and notcied that he sold repro
> keys.  Vin 10140 has a dual key system but according to his web site
> all cars after vin 4188 have a single key setup.  I know there is
> always a chance that my ignition key could have been once replaced,
> but i don't believe that this was the case.  Also, i went to to vin
> chronology and noticed that my car's vin # isn't even listed there.
> Maybe my car is just a fluke.
> - Shain
> #10140


Message: 7
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:21:02 +0000
From: "Dan B" <>
Subject: CO adjustment using a dwell meter?

A while back there was a link sent by David Sontos with instructions on how 
to adjust the CO mixture using a dwell meter.  He gave a URL but it seems 
that the page no longer exists (
Does anyone know where i can find this information?  I did a search on 
google and I couldn't find an archived version of the page.


Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:


Message: 8
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:32:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Cagle <>
Subject: Re: Door Handle (Inside)


What you're dealing with now is probably the hardest part of doing ANY work inside the door. You have to put the lower trim piece back in first, then put the pull handle in.  Looking through where the escuchion (the little plastic trim piece) would go around all the door controls, line up the holes.  Then use an extension to put the bolts back in.  It can be very tricky, and my first few times at it I had to continuously remove the bottom piece to retrieve the bolts that fell out of my socket.  Good luck!!


It's not too late to get your 1/18 scale Diecast DeLorean model! To order, call 800/USA-DMC1 or visit our online store at

Run a small business? Then you need professional email like from


Message: 9
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:29:57 -0000
From: "janvdwouw" <>
Subject: Re: Defroster switches..

--- In dmcnews, "adam" wrote:
> My defroster switch has been broken since I've had my car
> so i dont  know what the correct operation for this switch is. 
> Does this switch stay in the "on" position until pressed 
> back into the "off" position? 

Yes it does; it's just a plain on/off switch.

> I am wondering  because I may buy a new one to use
> as an auxilary switch for the cooling fans.

If you're planning to do so I'd suggest ordering a new 
reproduction switch from DMC in Texas;
they have 'm available without the print now for the 
same price.

Check them out at their website:
#101638 Defrost Switch $49.95 (is WITH print)
#111638 On/Off Switch $49.95 (WITHOUT print)
#111639 On/Off Switch (pair) $89.95 (TWO WITHOUT print)

You can easily replace either or both dummy switches
with these to manually override the Fans or something else. 

Good luck with these,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000



Message: 10
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:35:57 EDT
Subject: Re: Hot Fan Breaker... Fire would be bad.

In a message dated 4/19/02 2:42:11 PM Central Daylight Time, writes:

> Of all the dozen solutions out there, is there one that is do-able without
> investing another $300?
> Thanks.
> -Steve Peck


do you have an upgraded alternator or do you have an original Ducy or 
Motorolla?  your whole electrical system could get hot if it is drawing more 
power than the alternator can put out.  I have a 130 amp alternator and my 
whole electrical compartment is cool, even after driving all day.  i also 
have the updated relay set.

if your cooling fans are dying and you have too thin of wire on your fan fail 
relay/jumper, you will also experience some very hot situations!  one of my 
fans died on me and the old jumper i had melted from the high resistance.

1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 11
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:26:35 -0400
From: "Digital Devices" <>
Subject: Rear license plate holster...

Took mine off... and put it away for safe keeping during winter
restoration projects
now .. i have ripped my house apart and cannot find this piece
does anybody on the list have an extra for sale?
or know of where i can pick up a fairly cheap one?
please let me know
thanks much

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 12
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 18:04:07 EDT
Subject: my 134a conversion begins...

Hey all,

one of the last things that i need to do to get my car complete is to rebuild 
the A/C system.  when i bought the car in 2000, the A/C worked ok but didn't 
work when i took the car out of storage.  i had it recharged and it worked 
perfectly for a while until the compressor cycling became excessive and i 
eventually blew one of the long A/C lines.  and that's how it has been ever 
since last summer.  this year i want to get things rolling again....

i have decided to switch over to R-134a freon.  R-12 is becoming 
prohibitively expensive around here ($90/lb), especially if i have a leaky 
system.  R-134a is only $8/lb.  last year i had my A/C checked out after the 
leak and they found dye pretty much everywhere under there where there are 
metal to rubber connections, and the two main lines were both leaking freon 
down the whole length of them.  so it is obvious i will need new lines.  
anyway, i have had my car's underbody steamcleaned and i am going to take the 
car in to a local A/C shop to have it evaluated.  what we will do is just 
charge the system with a couple lbs of 134A and find out where the leaks are 
so i know what needs to be replaced.  after that i'm going to get my old long 
hoses out and bring them to a hose shop in town who custom makes A/C lines.  
they looked at them today on the car and estimated about $130 for both lines 
including the fittings.  then i'll get the new lines from them minus the 
fittings attached and feed them thru the frame and they will crimp the new 
ends on them with the lines on the car.  this will save me the hassle of 
lifting the body from the frame.  i'll probably have to replace the high and 
low pressure switches too, or at least i'll do it just because i'll already 
be in there.  depending on what else is leaking, i'll have to replace that 
stuff too.  once everything is leak-free, i am having another local place 
change whatever o-rings need to be changed and they will also vacuum the 
system and put different oil in and charge it up.  HOPEFULLY everything will 

1.  what does everyone else think about this?? am i missing anything really 

2.  what about the "A/C dryer" that some places have told me will need to be 
replaced? i can't find anything on any of the vendor's sites that is called a 
dryer.  does the DeLorean have this part?  

3.  any ideas on what else will need to be done to make the A/C work 

4.  does the line that goes from the accumulator to the evaporator need to be 

5.  and what about the line from the lower fitting on the condensor?

any insight is greatly appreciated!!
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 13
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:58:12 -0000
From: "dherv10" <>
Subject: Fuel Pumps wanted

Group, I need your old fuel pumps. Preferability the 957 version with 
out the built in check valve. I need to get my inventory built up and 
the rebuilder is getting low. Can you help. I will pay postage. Send 
to the address on the contact page of the web site. 
John hervey


Message: 14
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:34:57 EDT
Subject: turn signal mounts

Hey all,

new subject for you all.  the mounts that hold my front turn signals are 
rusty and broken.  anyone know a good way to replace these, or something 
better to use?

1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 15
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:03:10 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: Hot Fan Breaker... Fire would be bad.

> After 20 minutes or so driving with AC on, my breaker gets HOT as does the
> two THICK brown wires going to it.  The breaker is new, PJ Grady's
> recommended upgrade.  It cycles (trips) on and off about two minutes,
> is NOT good.

Make sure you have the breaker installed correctly.  They are polarized,
meaning that current is made to flow through them in a preferred direction.
If you run current through them the wrong direction, they tend to run hotter
than normal.  If you look closely at the breaker case, you should see some
small print designating the terminals as either BAT (for the battery side)
and ACC (for the accessory side).  To identify which wires come from the
battery, check with a volt meter or test light to see which wires are hot
while still disconnected from the breaker.

> Of all the dozen solutions out there, is there one that is do-able without
> investing another $300?

Try replacing the hot relays if they are OEM.  Even Radio Shack sells a 30A
rated relay that will fit okay.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 16
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:33:52 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: The Resurrection of Vixen Continues...

> If I
> backed out the set screw for the idle microswitch, the idle speed would
> jump and the engine would run much more smoothly.  I'm stumped on that
> one.

I think you might be clicking the microswitch off so that the idle speed
circuit is disabled.  A source of vacuum leak that is easily overlooked is
where the "rams horns" pipe connects to the rest of the intake manifold.
The OEM gasket is paper thin and tends to leak if it had ever been apart

>  The CO set
> screw has not been tampered with.

That isn't always a safe assumption.

> With all of that completed, I restarted the engine and the car idled
> fairly smoothly, and had snappy acceleration for about an hour.  Then,
> it suddenly just quit, and would not restart.  In fact, it still will
> not start.  Well, let me correct that statement -- it will start and run
> briefly, then quit.  And that's not just at idle, but at any
> pedal/throttle position.

This does not sound like a classic hot start problem to me; although, it
could be a hot start problem coupled with another problem on top of that.
The problem with these engines is that if you get more than one problem
happening at the same time then it gets real confusing.  You might have a
thermal breakdown of your ignition coil.  I don't know anything about a J&S
spark controller, but I suggest removing it until you can make the car run
well without it.

>  Unfortunately, I do not have a high pressure fuel
> gauge as yet, so I am just guessing.

Get a gauge.  It eliminates a lot of uncertainties.

> The hose is in nice
> shape, but rather soft, so I am going to try the stainless steel spring
> fix to ensure there will not be a collapse.

I don't think you will be able to find a SS spring.  The screen door springs
are cadmium plated.  I'm getting ready to post an alternative method of
spring insertion to the DML tech area.  My method works a lot easier than
the currently posted method.  But putting a spring in mine didn't help the
noise problem at all.  To sum it up real quick, blow a piece of string
through the hose, then use it to pull the spring through.  It beats trying
to soak it in hot water and push it through.

> What -was- rather distressing is that some fuel additive or other had
> started to melt my pump support boot.

If your fuel pump boot is OEM, expect it to be rotted.



Message: 17
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:33:00 EDT
Subject: Re: The Resurrection of Vixen Continues...

       These are some of my experiences of resurrecting a D that sat for 
eight years.
       1)  There should be no vacuum to the distributor _at_dml_ idle, and, as 
dmcjoe stated, this will cause a rough/poor quality idle.
       2)  you should be able to hear the frequency buzzing and be able to 
feel it buzz when you touch it.  If it can't be felt or heard (and the cat 
runs lean, won't take the throttle) you may have a restricted return line, 
resulting in high return pressure and a lean condition.  I found this on mine 
after long hours of worrying and fretting to fix it.  The short rubber return 
line had swollen shut at the tank end.
    Post if you find anything.


Message: 18
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:59:32 -0400
From: "Hank Eskin" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Fuel tank made from Stainless steel?

> Have you considered aluminum? 
> However, if aluminum is too weak, my question becomes moot.

It works for the space shuttle--it will probably work for our cars.  ;)



Message: 19
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:03:44 -0400
From: "Walter Coe" <>
Subject: Re: Dual Key System Vin #'s


What isn't clear in your message is the description of your keys.  If your
ignition & door locks use the same key blank, then you have the one-key
system.  But someone may have replaced your ignition lock or who-knows-what.
If your door key is shorter than the ignition key and (if OEM) has a small
battery operated light then you have the earlier two-key system.  Also,
two-key system door locks are all black and a little larger than the one-key
system which has a wide black ring and stainless keyhole.

Walt    Tampa, FL


Message: 20
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:27:00 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: auto transmission pan gasket

Renault are now recommending the use of a gasket sealing compound instead of a gasket, I
believe. I would have to check with my garage, but they've dropped the pan on two autos
in the past couple of months and neither the tranny filter nor the gasket or compound was
difficult or expensive to source direct from Renault UK.


Adam Price wrote:

> Hey Joe. I did check the vendor sites for the gasket, but was unable to find
> it separately. DMC Houston has it in a kit for 120 dollars, I just need the
> one gasket. I checked and still cannot find it..
> Anyway, someone from the board said that the autotransmission is the same
> one used on the Renault Fuego, 1982-1986(?). It is called an MB1, or an MJ3
> for the turbo edition Fuego.
> I was able to find a pan gasket for these transmissions, they both use the
> same one, at napa autoparts The picture they provide on the
> site looks like the one we need. Part number: ATP 17831
> I also looked up the filter for these transmissions, but it didnt look like
> the right one, it had a plastic bracket on the top. But maybe the bracket is
> removable.
> But the tansmission is actually an R-30? What other cars use this
> transmission? I heard that a Grumman mailtruck also uses our transmission.
> Thanks, Adam 16683


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