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Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1331
Date: Monday, January 06, 2003 4:29 AM

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There are 18 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Rear ended and insurance
From: "Harold McElraft <>" <>

2. A/C Problem, Repairable?
From: "therealdmcvegas <>" <>

3. Re: GEICO Insurance Co.
From: "davvet2 <>" <>

4. Re: Rear ended and insurance
From: "therealdmcvegas <>" <>

5. Re: sorry to bug you

6. Re: sorry to bug you
From: Andrew Prentis <>

7. Re: Re: Rear ended and insurance
From: Bob Brandys <>

8. Re: "DUHHH!!!!" at the gas pump
From: "beatlesra1 <>" <>

9. Re: Rear ended and insurance
From: "David Teitelbaum <>" <>

10. Re: A/C Problem, Repairable?
From: "David Teitelbaum <>" <>

11. Re: Re: Rear ended and insurance
From: "Donald Ekhoff" <>

12. RE: Re: GEICO Insurance Co.

13. thanks everyone
From: "sarcasmgirl16 <>" <>

14. Rear ended and insurance
From: "Mike" <>

15. Re: GEICO Insurance Co.
From: "therealdmcvegas <>" <>

16. Turbo questions

17. Re: Re: GEICO Insurance Co.

18. Re: GEICO Insurance Co.
From: "therealdmcvegas <>" <>

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 04:13:26 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft <>" <>
Subject: Re: Rear ended and insurance


Remember, you were the one rear-ended. Superior is wanting to close 
this quickly. Feeling a pain in your neck now? Don't sign a complete 
release until the car is DONE and you still feel good!

Harold McElraft -3354


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 05:38:11 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas <>" <>
Subject: A/C Problem, Repairable?

Lately my A/C has not been working properly.  The in winter time here (about 
40-50 F outside) the air is not cold, and the Compressor is cycling every 15 
seconds. Up front all is clean, and I can't see any leaks. However, the 
compressror up next to the pully is covered in oil. So much so that it has run 
down the block, and the pully has slung a bit over onto the pontoon. I've not 
disconnected and purged the system of R-12, so I don't know how accurate 
this is, but when I turn the compressor by hand per the workshop manual, I 
don't exactly feel any rough spots. While I notice no extra resistance turning 
the pully, it does make a "greasy" noise. Kinda like I'm spinning the shaft and 
it's pushing axel grease around (this could simply be the compressor moving 
oil thru the chambers, but sounded a bit thick to me). Now whatever glimmer 
of hope about replacing the shaft seal on the clutch pully I had is now gone 
due to the fact that I can't find the shaft seal listed anywhere on any vendor's 
online catalogues!

Now comes the even more fun part! I got this car from a garage down in 
Southern California. This leak was obviously present before, but the 
mechanic said that he had already fixed the Shaft Seal on the Compressor. 
And the mechanic there also serviced the A/C without performing a pressure 
test first. Soooo, all the refrigerant leaked out of the sizeable hole in the 
highpressure line that was formed as the underbody in the engine 
compartment rubbed up against it over the years. A quick cut of the line, a 
small section of metal pipe, and two hose clamps later and the leak was 
"fixed". Moving on, after the vacuum test was able to hold a steady pressure, 
the system was refilled and tested. It failed to cool again, so the guy started 
fiddling with the pressure valve. When that didn't work he drained the system 
again, and replaced the orafice tube which was covered in crap! And to "flush" 
the system he disconnected the lines from the back of the compressor, and 
blew them out with compressed air. After this, all worked fine and the A/C was 
cold. Well, until last summer...

A moment of self doubt in my own mechanical abilities has cost me dearly as 
it seems. So I am literally starting from scratch here. First off, is the High 
Pressure Switch something that is absolutely set by the factory, or should it be 
adjusted by individual car? In other words will a $25 investment in a new one 
that is pre-set save me a headache in the future? Alsoif there were any dirt in 
the system, would the accumulator catch and hold it like a filter? I'm hoping 
that this problem is being caused by a clog in this unit, and not a low pressure 
problem by a leak in the system. Although I won't get any better an idea until I 
atleast pressure test the system first. And of course I hope that the oil leak on 
the compressor is simply a coincidense. Otherwise this will end up being one 
seriously expensive repair. Even at this point, what I would probably pay out 
in labor alone to service my A/C will pay for an EPA cert, and the equipment to 
do the job myself.

So in the end, does anyone else here have any experience with these kind of 
A/C problems? And at what point should I consider getting rid of the existing 
rubber A/C lines and replacing them?

vin 6585 "X"


Message: 3
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 05:39:45 -0000
From: "davvet2 <>" <>
Subject: Re: GEICO Insurance Co.

I have a policy through Collector Car Insurance with a rate that is 
extremely affordable. I am limited to 3,000 miles per year though, 
but it costs less that $150.00 yearly. The Company is American Modern 
Insurance Company.  The Insurance agency number is:   1-800-787-7637.

I switched to them this year because JC Taylor's rates were double, 
and they couldn't insure a Cobra I was considering buying. This 
company can insure just about anything, street rods, kit cars, high 
performance originals, etc.

Hope this is of some help.



Message: 4
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 06:04:54 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas <>" <>
Subject: Re: Rear ended and insurance

This might also be a good time to consider installing a CHMSL, or 3rd brake 
light. I can't speak for every other drivetr out there, but in traffic I focus on other 
people's 3rd brake light, and not their side clearance lights unless they don't 
have any when it comes to brake lights. With an exotic car such as the 
DeLorean people will always stare at it more than they pay attention to what 
the driver is actually doing. Combine that with the low clearance lights on the 
back, and the danger is even higher of getting into a collision. The sacrafice of 
two holes drilled into the louvre is nothing compared to risking the facia, both 
quarter panels, lenses, and personal injury. Next time you're _at_dml_ a service 
center, or other DeLorean gathering, take a look at a car which has the 
Corvette style light installed (a pic of mine is in the photos section). It looks 
totally stock, and doesn't detract from the looks of the car at all. I've even been 
asked by knowlegeable collectors, and other people including a car 
salesman that used to work at a DMC dealership _at_dml_ what year did the 
company start installing the light on cars? It looks that good.

vin 6585 "X"


Message: 5
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 02:37:45 EST
Subject: Re: sorry to bug you

Its good to see that the DeLorean is gaining new fans every day.  I can 
remember when I was 16 and wanting a DeLorean.  After working full time and 
going to high school when I was 18 my dream became real.  As I tell everyone, 
I bought the DeLorean as high school graduation present to myself.  

My advise to any young person who wants to get a DeLorean is, shop around, 
you don't have to buy the first one you see.  Yes a DeLorean is not as easy 
to find as a 1980's Mustang GT, but there are a good number of DeLoreans out 
there.  And of course beware of the low price basketcase, (I speak from 
experance here)  you will spend much more getting that basketcase even 
running then you will on a good condition DeLorean.  On the other hand, if 
you like working on cars and love seeing the results of hard work, one of 
these fix-er-uppers may be right for you.

In closing, this list has been one of the most helpful pieces of information 
to myself and many other DeLorean owners and fans, and I would recommend this 
list to anyone who is intrested in DeLorean's.  There are very few 
automobiles who have as much of a support network as the DeLorean.  In my 
view this not only makes owning a DeLorean much more enjoyable, but it also 
increces the overall value of the car itself.

4194 (since the summer of 98)


Message: 6
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 00:39:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Prentis <>
Subject: Re: sorry to bug you

Unless you plan on having to wait till you're 100
years old to get a D I'm sure there will still be
plenty around.Obviously in 10 or so years there won't
be as many but still plenty to choose from.James from
DMC (Houston) recently said there was also enough
parts to easily meet supply for a hundred years or
more.So I say don't worry about availabilty and just
learn as much as you can about the car until you get
one.Believe me it will be worth the wait.
VIN 2883
 and one day
> i REALLY want to own one. how likely do you guys
> think it is that by
> the time i can afford one there will still be some
> around? as of
> right now theres no hope of getting one any time
> soon as i already
> have a car. but some people's dream is one day
> climbing mt everest
> etc, mine is to own one of these babies. 

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.


Message: 7
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 09:22:29 -0600
From: Bob Brandys <>
Subject: Re: Re: Rear ended and insurance


Your suggestion of installing a third brake light was brillant!  The 
safety studies originally conducted in Sweden and then on Torandos in 
the US with third brake lights showed that they reduce rear end crashes 
by almost 20%.  

The Corvette brake light looks really nice. The only improvement I would 
suggest is changing the light over to high intensity LEDs.  The LEDs 
illuminate at little faster than incandescent bulbs and consequently, 
provide a little faster reaction time to the driver behind you.

At 60 mph., this time difference can mean a shorter breaking distance of 
at least 5 feet.



Message: 8
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 17:31:01 -0000
From: "beatlesra1 <>" <>
Subject: Re: "DUHHH!!!!" at the gas pump

This is a great topic and I'm sure everyone has had it happen to them!

Anyone ever had the guy whos an expert on Deloreans telling his buddy 
all about them?...

I pulled up to the pump this past summer and was filling up when 
these two dudes come waltzing up, the one dude is telling the other 
Yep I had one of these Babies I asked him what year he had and he sez 
an 86, I told him they were only made in 81, 82 and 83 and he sez 
well mine was an 86. So as he's walking around the car ( And putting 
fingerprints on my Stainless ) he tells his buddy that John Delorean 
should have never left Ford and also that his car was one of a kind, 
his was the only four door Delorean ever made. 

Honest Truth!!!

Chuck Darling
Vin# 6125 


Message: 9
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 18:04:34 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum <>" <>
Subject: Re: Rear ended and insurance

This accident brings up a very important issue for anyone using a 
Delorean as a "daily driver". If you are using "ordinary" insurance 
and you get hit the insurance company will compare the cost of repair 
with the "value" of the car. If in their opinion the car is worth say 
$10,000 (and the policy gives them the ability to set this in some 
cases) and the damage is within 80% of the total value of the car (in 
this case $8,000) then you might face the prospect of getting $10,000 
less the deductible and losing the car! 
 All Delorean owners who use their car for daily driving should be 
familiar with the terms of their policy and the potential 
circumstances that could total their car. It is very important to have 
an agreed upon value of the car. Don't find out too late that the 
insurance company can set the value after the fact, it is too late. 
What may be a low cost way to insure your car now can become expensive 
if you ever really need it. You should also understand the conditions 
under which the repair shop is picked, and rates, if used parts must 
be used in the repair, etc. Since rules vary from State to State it is 
up to each owner to be familiar with the rules as they apply to them. 
Don't wait until the worst happens and find out it can get worse, call 
your broker now and find out before it is too late. Also sometimes 
some companies give discounts for certain things like if the car is 
always garaged, if there is an alarm installed, etc so be sure to have 
a long talk with your broker and learn as much as you can BEFORE you 
have a claim and then they explain all the fine print you didn't care 
about. For anyone cheating on limited mileage if the car has too much 
mileage at the time of a total you could find your entire claim 
invalidated. If say you are allowed 2,500 miles a year and you started 
with 10,000 miles and 2 years later the odometer read 18,000 the claim 
would be disallowed on the basis you did not abide by the terms of 
your policy.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In, "therealdmcvegas <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...>" 
<DMCVegas_at_dml_l...> wrote:
> This might also be a good time to consider installing a CHMSL, or 
3rd brake 
> light. I can't speak for every other drivetr out there, but in 
traffic I focus on other 
> people's 3rd brake light, and 


Message: 10
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 18:21:49 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum <>" <>
Subject: Re: A/C Problem, Repairable?

With all of the repair history on the A/C the best thing would be to 
start all over again. Replace any questionable (field repaired) hoses, 
all of the seals and "O" rings, flush, purge, and pressure test, send 
the compressor out for rebuild or just replace. With contamination 
known to be in the system the safe thing is to replace the 
accumulater. At this time it is good to consider converting from R-12. 
I suggest you find yourself a well equipped shop that can handle this 
and do it right. It might get expensive but it is more expensive to do 
it cheaply and often. Fortunatly the A/C system in the Delorean isn't 
too unfamiliar to most A/C shops. Just lend them the Workshop Manual 
and tell them which Delorean vender you want them to get the parts 
from. Once properly fixed the system is pretty reliable. As far as 
replacing parts you could proabably do it yourself but any shop would 
just go over your work to clean the system and check for leaks. Unless 
you have the manifold gauge set, vacuum pump and gasses you will have 
to go to a shop anyway. Since you seem to be in California you really 
can't enjoy the Delorean without A/C so to use the car you really need 
to have a functional A/C system.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In, "therealdmcvegas <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...>" 
<DMCVegas_at_dml_l...> wrote:
> Lately my A/C has not been working properly.  The in winter time 
here (about 
> 40-50 F outside) the air is not cold, and the Compressor is cycling 
every 15 
> vin 6585 "X"


Message: 11
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 10:55:47 -0800
From: "Donald Ekhoff" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Rear ended and insurance

With the talk of being rear ended, I would like to let folks know of a
source for white 1156 LED bulbs I have recently found.  I am told they will
take 16 ft of braking distance off at 55 mph because they come on instantly,
which triggers a quicker brake petal application by the trailing driver.  I
have installed a set in my DeLorean and they look good.  Unfortunately the
car can take 10 bulbs.  I saw no benefit to changing out the backup lights
so I only used 8 bulbs.  They are $7.50 each available from    He accepts paypal and is an e-bay vendor.  (Item
# 1873635734)

Don Ekhoff
various vins

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 10:04 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: Rear ended and insurance

> This might also be a good time to consider installing a CHMSL, or 3rd
> light. I can't speak for every other drivetr out there, but in traffic I
focus on other
> people's 3rd brake light, and not their side clearance lights unless they
> have any when it comes to brake lights. 


Message: 12
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 16:12:34 -0500
Subject: RE: Re: GEICO Insurance Co.

"therealdmcvegas <>" <> wrote:

>I called GEICO 2 years ago when inquiring about a policy with them 
>for my DeLorean. I ended up no going with them because of their rates 
>of $2400 every six months! 

  Do you really mean $2400.00/6 months? Or did you misplace decimal point.

    VIN 5791  Gus


Message: 13
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 22:55:04 -0000
From: "sarcasmgirl16 <>" <>
Subject: thanks everyone

   thanks to everyone who responded to my post.. every response i got
was positive.. one day i really am going to have a DeLorean. i love
hearing from anyone else who is as enthusiastic about these cars as
me, so dont be afraid to email me. im working on finding out as much
about them as i can for now, and im saving up my money to buy one. the
problem is that i will probably have to pay myself through college, so
most likely i wont be able to consider it for like 10 more years (so
no, i dont plan on waiting until im 100) thanks again everyone, and
keep those emails coming! its really great to hear from you all.


Message: 14
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:03:54 -0800
From: "Mike" <>
Subject: Rear ended and insurance

Hello list,
Yes, I will definitely install a third brake light once my baby comes home
to me. LED of course.
I love my DeLorean but, I must now make a decision not to continue it as my
daily driver. It has been my daily driver for the past 4 years and I never
had a problem mechanically or to its appearance.
I've worked in an area of LA county for 7 years with mild traffic. Now that
my company has moved by the airport 4 months ago, I have to sit in 5mph
traffic for an 1hr1/2. My DeLorean just isn't this transportation vehicle I
now need.
I'm now putting more wear and tear and run a greater risk of being in an
accident in this type of traffic.

I would like to thank everyone for there advice in this matter and I will
give you an update on any new developments. But, I don't want to discourage
or scare anyone from purchasing a DeLorean. It's a great car as long as its
maintained. Don't let these Insurance Joe's scare you. It's an uphill battle
to educate these people about our cars but, it can be done.
I wouldn't trade my car for anything, I'm proud to own one.



Message: 15
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 02:19:57 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas <>" <>
Subject: Re: GEICO Insurance Co.

--- In, gerenpreiss_at_dml_n... wrote:
> "therealdmcvegas <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...>" <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...> wrote:
> >I called GEICO 2 years ago when inquiring about a policy with them 
> >for my DeLorean. I ended up no going with them because of their rates 
> >of $2400 every six months! 
>   Do you really mean $2400.00/6 months? Or did you misplace decimal 
>     VIN 5791  Gus

Nope, you read it right. Even the phone rep on the other end re-entered all the 
data back into the computer to verify he hadn't made a mistake.  He was pretty 
taken back by the figure also. Vegas here is a pretty tough town for insurance. 
It's a "24-hour" city where nothing closes, it's a huge tourist destination with 
people from all over the world driving in unfamiliar territory, and all the 
casinos give out free liquor 24/7. Oh, and in '97, DOT ranked the valley here 
as having the 3rd worst roads in the nation. Not because of congestion, but 
physical condition. Grated gravel on state roads can be smoother. And lastly 
drivers here have the right-of-way on the roads, NOT pedestrians as in 
California. So people will randomly walk into the street thinking they're safe. 
So insurance companies will take all of this into consideration. Sometimes 
though, it can become more like an excuse. I fortunetly have a short commute 
to work, and that helps with writing out policies. It can help you gain a bit of 
leverage wherever you are to make things seem like less of a risk.

vin 6585 "X"


Message: 16
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:32:53 EST
Subject: Turbo questions

Hello list,

I am giving some thought to installing a Turbo/ Twin turbo charger on my 81 
DeLorean.  I know that I can get the twin turbo kit from turbo manifold, but 
is there anywhere I can get a BAE single turbo kit.  

How much more of an advantage does the twin turbo deliver, In terms of added 
power and turbo lag over the single turbo setup?

If there is anyone who has a turbo kit that they would like to get rid of, I 
would be intrested in purchasing it from you.

Does anyone with a turbo Delorean live in the Chicagoland area that I could 
talk to?



Message: 17
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:14:46 EST
Subject: Re: Re: GEICO Insurance Co.

Geico quoted me a price even more rediculous than that.  It was around $4,800 
every 6 months.   After I was done laughing I hung up...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 18
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 04:17:38 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas <>" <>
Subject: Re: GEICO Insurance Co.

I've already sent an e-mail directly to Frederick for this one, but wanted to 
share the info with the group to pool all info together. In case anyone else 
ever runs across an insurance company that refuses coverange by saying the 
DeLorean isn't meant for the US market, or claims that it is a "Gray Market" 
vehicle, there is an easy way to get around this. The Dealership List! All 
DeLoreans initially came with this booklet showing a listing of all Dealerships 
within all 50 states incase repairs were needed. This alone proves that the 
DMC-12 was a car made specificly for the US market, and that it is not "Gray 
Market". PJ Grady was an original dealership listed in that book, and they are 
still in business!

Aside from that, USEPA emissions compliance stickers are located in the 
typical conspicous spots on your car, and in your Owners Handbooks.

Hope this helps everyone in the future!

vin 6585 "X"

--- In, "Frederick R. Embden" <fembden_at_dml_t...> 
> A question for the group.
> Does anyone here have their D insured at GEICO.  I wanted to add my D to 
> policy to use as a daily driver, and they are saying the Delorean was not
> built for the US and I have to prove that it was DOT approved for the US
> market.  I can't repeat the names I call their staff, but the conversation
> did not go well.
> Frederick Embden


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