From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1345
Date: Friday, January 17, 2003 3:12 AM

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There are 7 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: oozing windshield sealant/reseating window
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>

2. Re: Toby TABS
From: John Gedeon <johne_g_at_dml_yahoo.com>

3. RE: grounding equipment to battery?
From: "IN2TIME" <Gary_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>

4. AW: grounding equipment to battery?
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

5. Re: Headlights
From: "Harold McElraft <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

6. Re: Toby TABS
From: "netym89 <delorean_at_dml_telus.net>" <delorean_at_dml_telus.net>

7. Whatever it costs to get the right color!
From: "jacobsproperties <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>" <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:38:00 -0500
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: oozing windshield sealant/reseating window

HAHA!  That was fun.  If you are as bold as Fredt in this feat, you can
probably replace the professional window suctions cups with a couple of
suction cup dent pullers- It'd probably do the job while remaining
cheaper and a useful tool afterwards (though not on stainless- own panels
don't POP anywhere!)

Jim
1537



On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:34:39 -0800 (PST) john fredt
<hecklerkochgmbh_at_dml_yahoo.com> writes:
> [Moderator Note: I'm approving this post because it furthers the 
> technical discussion of this topic.  I realize it is a bit 
> antagonistic, but the email address includes the subscriber's real 
> name, so it is not anonymous.  - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of 
> the week]
> 
> Dont be afraid of removing and reseating windshields 
> yourself.remember they are made of safety glass and the worst thing 
<snip>

________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:48:01 -0800 (PST)
From: John Gedeon <johne_g_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Toby TABS

Heres what may sound like a stupid questiong but...
What's the trailing arm bolt? And whats it do?
John
--- Darryl Tinnerstet <darryl_at_dml_techline.com> wrote:
> Just wanted to announce that the supply of Toby TAB
> trailing arm bolts is gone.  At Saturday's PNDC
> meeting one member brought one of the original bolts
> out of his (and formerly MY) 12,000 mile car that
> was noticeably bent.  Lucky for him he had purchased
> a Toby TAB set long ago just in case.
> 
> To my friend Toby Peterson, thank you for your
> continuing efforts to improve the safety and
> driveability of our beloved cars.  To those who
> purchased them, thank you for your support and
> foresight.  It still amazes me how long and how much
> effort it took to get just slightly over 1% of
> owners to upgrade this very critical factory
> weakness.  Yes they were expensive, but as one who
> experienced a "very close call" failure a few years
> ago, I still believe they are an absolute necessity.
>  And to the 99% who apparently did not share that
> opinion, three words of advice: please drive slowly.
> 
> Darryl Tinnerstet
> Specialty Automotive
> McCleary, WA
> www.delorean-parts.com



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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:38:28 -0800
From: "IN2TIME" <Gary_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>
Subject: RE: grounding equipment to battery?

[Moderator Note: Further comments which do not discuss DIRECT APPLICATIONS IN DELOREANS will be rejected without mercy.  - moderator Mike Substelny]

Just as Kayo wasn't flaming Martin, my intent is not to flame Kayo. There is
a lot of controversy over the use and misuse of stiffening capacitors. IMHO,
there are specific situations where they can be very effective.

Bass notes require power.
Loud Bass required more power.
Crisp fully-formed bass notes require instantaneous power.

If your battery voltage goes down over long periods of high demand (from the
stereo, lights, etc.), you need to upgrade the alternator, battery, or both.
A stiffening capacitor can't fix the problem.

If the battery and wiring to the amp can't supply enough instantaneous power
to the amp during the formation of bass notes, the voltage at the input to
the amp will drop and the individual bass notes can get "clipped" (not fully
formed). 

Upgrading the power wiring, using an amp with better power regulation,
connecting the amp directly to the battery, adding a stiffening capacitor,
or adding a second battery can reduce/eliminate clipping. Upgrading the
power wiring or adding a stiffening capacitor would be "easier" solutions
than installing a second battery and might be more cost-effective than a
better amp. Amps with "better" power supplies often have bigger capacitors
built in.


An alternator has very little direct impact on instantaneous clipping,
because it can't respond fast enough to instantaneous demands - in fact,
during rapid transients, it isn't even sensing the voltage at the input to
the amp.  By the time it senses a voltage drop and it's output increases,
the demand is already gone. 

A stiffening capacitor is like a small, but super-fast power source (like a
rechargeable battery that can charge and discharge very quickly). If the
voltage at the input to the Amp starts to drop while a bass note is being
formed, the capacitor (located as close to the amp as possible) kicks in to
supplement the battery and keep the voltage relatively constant. As the
instantaneous power demand drops off, the stiffening capacitor charges back
up and is ready for the next high-demand bass note. Higher capacity
capacitors can handle larger and longer demands, but long low rumbling
sounds can deplete the capacitor, and at that point you are back to relying
on whatever the battery and alternator can supply.

With a stiffening capacitor, the voltage that the alternator senses remains
more constant, so the alternator is likely to be stressed even less than it
would be without a stiffening capacitor. Other than minor losses, and the
fact that the stiffening capacitor is allowing the amp to work to it's full
capacity, the stiffening capacitor does not put any extra load on the
alternator or battery.

IMHO, if your system is operating beyond the instantaneous capability of the
current electrical system, and the wiring is already sized properly, a
stiffening capacitor can be an easy, economical, and effective solution -
with no downside. Even if you are designing a system from scratch, you still
may find that you can get a little more bass out of the system by adding a
stiffening capacitor instead of upgrading the electrical system - but don't
expect miracles.

Gary
IN2TIME










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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:21:42 +0100
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: AW: grounding equipment to battery?

Hi Kayo,

you seem to be very familiar with Hifi and stuff, but do you really know a
cap is ?

Why should it soak up all the current that the alternator generates ?
Once it is loaded it doesn't need any current anymore as long as it is not
discharged by something. You need it (if needed at all ?) only to keep the
voltage stabilized when an extreme kickbass needs to be powered. imagine the
wire from the amp to the battery as a resistor and an inductivity. when very
fast a high current is needed, first the inductance will slow down the
current rise.
(I am not sure if you will really sense that.) But even worse, the extreme
high
current needed produces a voltage loss over the wire, so the amp won't see
the
whole 12V or better 13.8V produced by the generator or stored in the
battery.
If you have 0.1 Ohm wire resistance (pretty much, but may happen with bad
contacts)
and you need about 30A for that bass, then you will have a voltage loss of
3V which
will be missing for the amp to produce that correct signal for your speaker.
Now
in this case, the cap (placed directly next to the amp) will provide the
current
needed.
If the signal lasts longer, than the cap will be discharged to the same
voltage that
the amp would see without the cap ! There is no such thing like you
described !

But what also happens is, that every voltage ripple produced by the
alternator or fan motors or whatever, will push and pull current through the
amp wire because there will be a voltage difference between cap and battery
! This current can produce even more distortions
if ground connection is wrong !

So you're right to say - forget that stuff in a Delorean as long as you
wanna keep
your ability to hear. It is not necessarry at all.

To find the best spot for the ground connection - look where the radio is
connected !
I guess it's the ground screw at the fire wall. But for a high power radio
you will
have to replace the original ground and +12V wire to the radio with let's
say 1.5...2.5mm˛ wires. But in most cases it is simply - try it out ! There
are only two or three spots
to connect the ground and they are all located next to each in the
electronic compartment.

For regular cars you normally hook the ground up as short as possible to the
chassis.
That's how I fixed several noisy stereo systems in cars which all made hear
you the alternator and therefore the engine rev through the speakers.

I also think in 90% of all cases the filters they sell for the
cinch-signal-wires are not needed at all when having a good and correct
ground connection (connect +12V directly to the battery and make sure it is
a real good connection !).

Gold contacts ? look nice cost a lot and only prevent corrosion. From
resistance issues - gold is worse than silver or copper ! It simply looks
nicer and somebody makes more money...

And before changing the alternator - clean all the contacts first, replace
nuts and washers and don't forget the carbon brushes in the alternator -
cost about 5 bucks and one hour of work to replace them when worn (probably
after 50k miles or so, mine after 35k miles !)and give your alternator the
chance to work properly. A "better" alternator won't solve your connection
problems !

My two cents on car hifi...

Elvis & 6548



> Just another of my two cents and not to flame Martin's suggestion, there are
> a few things to know about "caps" or better known as "stiffening capacitors"
> in the auto hi-fi business.  

[very long quote trimmed by moderator]



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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:25:09 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Headlights

I am using an H4 setup with Hella H4 headlamps. These replace the 
standard low beam headlamps. I then recently purchased a pair of 
PIAA H4 bulbs with the XTRA, Xtreme technology. Produces twice the 
watts output as input. ie 60w=120w. I then put in NEW conventional 
halogens for high beams. Everything works as it is suppose to with 
no system strains, the low beams are much more efficient and I can 
actually see now. The brights are like daylight - wow. The PIAA 
bulbs are DOT approved and I have a stock look until you turn on the 
lights - the light is MUCH whiter. Draw back? A bit pricy. $80 for 
the Hellas, $75 for the PIAA's and $15 for the new high beams but, 
it's plug and play.

Harold McElraft - 3354




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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:45:19 -0000
From: "netym89 <delorean_at_dml_telus.net>" <delorean_at_dml_telus.net>
Subject: Re: Toby TABS

Yes, Darryl, these bolts are just about the most hazardous bolts on 
the entire car if not replaced. To all that have not experienced it 
and few have and wish it on nobody out there, one of my bolts snapped 
going about 20 miles/hour from a parking lot. The car was driven hard 
across some railroad tracks only 10 minutes earlier. If it was not 
for that stunt, I might have made it to the highway and had the bolt 
snap on me at 70mph and probably not here to talk about it now. Most 
mechanics will be able to get the hardest steel bolt for a 
replacement and that was done after a 30 mile tow to the shop. I 
trust my mechanic so I just told him that these bolts have to be 
tough enough for the job and so I drive safely again. PLEASE have 
them replaced!! Minor cracks inside the bolt is enough to bend and 
break these bolts. If it is not done, DO IT! I don't care how little 
you've driven the car or garaged it for that matter. Factory bolts 
were not the best!!
Good luck .
Jan E. 10250


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, John Gedeon <johne_g_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Heres what may sound like a stupid questiong but...
> What's the trailing arm bolt? And whats it do?
> John
> --- Darryl Tinnerstet <darryl_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> > Just wanted to announce that the supply of Toby TAB
> > trailing arm bolts is gone.  At Saturday's PNDC
> > meeting one member brought one of the original bolts
> > out of his (and formerly MY) 12,000 mile car that
> > was noticeably bent.  Lucky for him he had purchased
> > a Toby TAB set long ago just in case.
> > 
> > To my friend Toby Peterson, thank you for your
> > continuing efforts to improve the safety and
> > driveability of our beloved cars.  To those who
> > purchased them, thank you for your support and
> > foresight.  It still amazes me how long and how much
> > effort it took to get just slightly over 1% of
> > owners to upgrade this very critical factory
> > weakness.  Yes they were expensive, but as one who
> > experienced a "very close call" failure a few years
> > ago, I still believe they are an absolute necessity.
> >  And to the 99% who apparently did not share that
> > opinion, three words of advice: please drive slowly.
> > 
> > Darryl Tinnerstet
> > Specialty Automotive
> > McCleary, WA
> > www.delorean-parts.com




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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:28:28 -0000
From: "jacobsproperties <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>" <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>
Subject: Whatever it costs to get the right color!

Thought this was funny.
http://www.reallifecomics.com/index.html

Dave

[Moderator Note: Don't bother responding to this.  I won't approve it.  - Mike Substelny]




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