From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1358
Date: Sunday, January 26, 2003 2:19 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Hello fellow DMC enthusiasts! thanks mathew!!
From: "Adam <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>

2. Re: Hello fellow DMC enthusiasts!
From: John Gedeon <johne_g_at_dml_yahoo.com>

3. Current happenings with the AZ-D
From: "Matthew P. Olans" <mpolans_at_dml_creeper.com>

4. Trailing Arm Bolt Replacement.
From: "therealdmcvegas <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

5. Future DeLorean Owner Threads
From: "content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

6. Screen Saver Contest
From: "gullwingmagazine <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>" <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>

7. 2003 Events
From: "gullwingmagazine <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>" <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>

8. Re: Future DeLorean Owner Threads
From: "William Bowie" <wbowie_at_dml_sc.rr.com>

9. Re: Trailing Arm Bolt Replacement.
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

10. Re: Trailing Arm Bolt Replacement.
From: "Toby Peterson <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>

11. DeLorean Desktops
From: Mathew Halpern <mhalpern_at_dml_tampabay.rr.com>

12. Powder Coated Alternator
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 03:30:43 -0000
From: "Adam <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hello fellow DMC enthusiasts! thanks mathew!!


Thanks for posting the link to that delorean shop. I just ordered one 
of those cool baseball shirts! 

Adam


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmc_dream <dmhmail_at_dml_y...>" 
<dmhmail_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> OK!  I've joined the list.  Now all I need is a DeLorean :-)
> 
> I have loved this car ever since I first saw it.  I even got to 
ride in one, which 
> just sealed it for me. 
> 
> It's a dream of mine to actually own a DeLorean, but my passion and 
practical 
> side are feuding over the decision.  So, maybe you guys can help me 
out.  My 
> practical side wants to know:
> 
> 1) What's a reasonable price for a DeLorean in "good" condition?  
I'm not 
> looking for a showroom model, I'd like a reliable daily driver.
> 
> 2) Does it require more maintenance than any other '81-'83 model 
car?
> 
> 3) Does the value of the car depreciate or appreciate, given 
it's 'classic' status 
> now?
> 
> 4) Is financing easily available for such a unique vehicle? 
> 
> 
> My passion side wants to know:
> 
> 1) How fast can it go?
> 
> 2) Does owning a DeLorean make everything else in life hum-drum?
> 
> 3) Do dreams really come true?
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Mathew H.
> --
> Cool stuff for the DeLorean enthusiast:
> http://www.cafeshops.com/delorean_shop




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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:42:17 -0800 (PST)
From: John Gedeon <johne_g_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hello fellow DMC enthusiasts!

Andy,

  Cool I have only recently decided to get a D and i
am married and in my 23. I have a good job just not
the capital to get and maintain a D. Hopefully that
will change, since I think it will make a wonderful
second car (and maybe even a good commuter car)

John

--- Soma576_at_dml_aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 1/24/03 3:09:08 PM Central
> Standard Time, 
> johne_g_at_dml_yahoo.com writes:
> 
> 
> > I think all the kids that grew up with BTTF (ie my
> > generation) are starting to have some money saved,
> > steadier jobs, and still not have too much
> > responsability allowing them to look into D's. At
> > least thats what my wife said and it sounds about
> > right since alot of the new people seem to be in
> the
> > 18-22 age group.
> > John
> 
> John,
> 
> very true. many of the younger owners (18-23 yr old)
> like myself have a 
> higher disposable income ratio than adults with
> houses, families, two cars, 
> etc.  Personally i realized this fact and decided
> that i had to get my 
> DeLorean while i was still young and make sure i get
> it paid off and fixed up 
> (i just about said 'completed' - like a D is ever
> done!) before i get 
> married, buy a house, etc.  that way i could enjoy
> it while i was still in 
> college and roaming the country, and have it 'on the
> side' as i begin to 
> settle down.  
> 
> unfortunately, you NEVER have as much disposable
> income as you think you do.  
> i have a quite a large sum of debt that will take me
> all of 2003 to pay off 
> if i don't spend any more!!  BUT i can be happy in
> the fact that after that, 
> i will have an excellent car that is totally
> reliable, looks good, and is a 
> crowd favorite at the many shows i attend each year.
> to me, that is worth the 
> damage done by debt. 
> 
> but then again, i have had a lucky work history so
> far - when i was in high 
> school i was the youngest assistant manager ever in
> the fast food franchise i 
> was in, and when i left there for a new job, i am
> now the youngest general 
> manager my company has ever put in charge of a
> store, and i have been lucky 
> to post up to 30% sales increases in the time i have
> been running the show.  
> i am paid well with bonuses, i'm on salary, i have
> benefits, and i am able to 
> go to college at the same time without any work
> penalties.  to make it short, 
> i wouldn't ever have dreamed of buying a DeLorean at
> 18 years old if i was 
> hopping around on jobs every few months - you gotta
> have a good reliable job 
> if you are going to be a young owner.  
> 
> Andy
> 
> Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
> 1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
> Fargo, ND 58102
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating
> team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for
> sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


=====
<>< Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;"



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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 21:37:29 -0700
From: "Matthew P. Olans" <mpolans_at_dml_creeper.com>
Subject: Current happenings with the AZ-D

Greetings from the desk of the VP!
        Ok, so I just like saying that....:)  the Arizona DeLorean Club
(www.az-d.org) has a full month planned.  We're hoping some of our members
that we haven't heard from are monitoring the DML and will contact Randal or
myself or even another member to get in touch and update your contact
information.  We have some email addresses that are no longer current and we
don't want to forget or leave out any members who want to be a part of our
events.  Funny how these speeches happen right about the same time dues are
due, eh?....:)
        Anyway, we have three great events planned for the February/March
timeframe and I wanted to share these with the list should anyone be
interested and want to attend.  The first event will be held Saturday,
February 8th.  A few owners are going to try out our new FRS radios (great
deal at Fry's Electronics: $15/radio, $15 rebates, two per household) and
cruise up to our new DeLorean Performance shop in Prescott Valley for some
repairs and improvements.  This is about a 120 mile cruise and runs from
about 1400 feet in elevation to just over 5000 feet.  So far we have three
cars going and four owners.  There we plan to meet D-A-R-T shop owner Ryan
Gould, new club member Rocky Camin, and rumor has it that new AZ-D member
Jonathan Antonio is the newest owner, purchasing Arie Lyundyke's (sp.)
DeLorean just this week.  Repairs/upgrades at D-A-R-T include door
adjustments, TAB removal and replacement (yes with Toby TABs),
electrical/wiring work, driving light installation, horn installation, and
rear view camera/monitor wiring.
        Our next event is centered around the first weekend in March.  Rob
Grady from P.J. Grady DeLorean in New York is coming out for his second
annual visit and tech session with our club.  With him as always is EvilDan
from central NJ.  Rumor has it that we will be joined by TIMMAY! from MN and
a possible former VeeP from SFO.  I wonder if Ken Koncelik will make a
surprise appearance?  AZ will be chock full of DeLorean talent.  Saturday,
March 1st will be the tech session and car inspection day.  Sunday will be
very special.  At this very event last year our President, Randal Brown of
3M fame, drove his DeLorean for the last time.  On the way to the event
Randal's brake system failed in the clamped down position and Randall showed
up with dark gray brake dust colored wheels and glowing rotors.  Randal was
able to get his car home and it's been in his garage since.  As you know,
letting a DeLorean sit is never good and Randal had to drain the tank and
replace the fuel system components.  Right now he cannot seem to get it to
stay running, so our mission Sunday is to get Randal's car running and get
it into position in his garage for the brake system removal and replacement.
EvilDan and TIMMAY! have both offered Randal their services to assist in
getting his car back on the road and with Rob's help on Sunday we'll regain
a car we lost over a year ago.  It will be a great victory to have our
President cruising the streets again.
        This brings us to Saturday, March 15th.  This is the Arizona British
Car Show in Heritage Square, Phoenix.  Last year we had enough DeLoreans for
our own class and the club's very own Events Coordinator, Richard Federico,
took first place.  This year we hope for an even better turnout, what with
my car being in AZ and Randal's car back on the road.
        So all in all this is a very busy time for the AZ-D.  We'd like to
invite any and all who wish to join in our festivities to please feel
welcome.  Just contact me with any questions and I will be more than happy
to answer all I can.  We are fortunate enough to be able to drive our cars
year round and would very much like to share that, especially with the folks
who have to take their cars off the road for the winter.

"SHARE the Dream!"
Matthew P. Olans, VP AZ-D
VIN #10365
VIN #16816




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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 04:48:47 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Trailing Arm Bolt Replacement.

Saturday morning, I plan on replacing the Trailing Arm Bolts on my car, along 
with the rubber bushings as well. Does anyone have any tips before I start in 
on this job? BTW, it's a 5-Speed.

Also, what specificly should I torque the TABs to? So far, I've seen 50-55, and 
have even heard 60lbs. Which one is correct? And what should I torque the 
bolts to hold the bushings in place to? And of course, are there any nuts or 
bolts that I should consider replacing as well? I have a set of Toby-TABs that 
I'm just now getting around to installing, and they came with new nuts, and 2 
washers each.

I have read that I should count the washers, and reinstall to keep the 
alignment correct, and that I should grease the bolts where they'll make 
contact with the steel sleeves in the rubber bushings too.

Since I don't have a lift to place the car on, will ramps for the rear wheels 
work? And if not, what should I use? Gut feeling tells me that the job needs to 
be done, and soon. Rear clunking is getting worse along with traction. 
Especially after I turned a corner and hit a VERY nasty pothole. It sounded 
worse than it felt, but was enough to trip my inertia switch!

Thanks in advance!

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 05:21:14 -0000
From: "content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Future DeLorean Owner Threads

These various "future DeLorean owner" threads have taken on a life of
their own (and are refreshingly positive in tone)!

My 2 cents: Unless you have deep pockets, success will depend on
amount of mechanic work you can do yourself. Not only are shop labor
rates eye-openingly high, but many procedures on these little cars
seem to take longer than they would on other makes. A double whammy.

DeLoreans are not ideal vehicles to to learn mechanic skills on,
primarily because of issues of access, not complicatedness. But it can
be done. And I emphasize again value of knowledge base just an eMail
message or phone call away. Talked to Rob Grady for half hour once
myself (hope I always remember info he shared). As David T pointed out
in a private message, primary concern of 99% DeLorean owners is
helping any way possible to get yet one more car on the road. Try
taking THAT to General Motors.

Successful auto mechanicing (good Southern term) is a process of
knowing when to say "when." When to ask for advice or assistance. When
to take a break, even until the next weekend. When to farm a procedure
out. When to trust an intuition. Start small: learn how to change your
own oil and do your own tune-up. When upgrading factory stereo,
consider doing it yourself rather than a sound shop. The car WILL
break from time to time (it IS a machine) -- use those times as
learning experiences, not head beating sessions. You'll be surprised
how quickly latest new owner is coming to YOU for info.

Of course you should START with a car consistent with your skills at
that time. Not everyone is a Dave S!

Bill Robertson
#5939





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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:06:15 -0000
From: "gullwingmagazine <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>" <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Screen Saver Contest

For those of you who haven't been to Bob Zillas 
site "deloreanparts.com" in a while, check it out.  Bob has a contest 
put together for creating a FREE screen saver.  You will have to 
submit your favorite "D" shot (JPEG format) for consideration.  

Bob has some neat prizes (tool kits) for the winners along with the  
FREE screen saver he will put together for all of us to use.

Ron
Gullwing Magazine






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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:16:35 -0000
From: "gullwingmagazine <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>" <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: 2003 Events

As the first issue of Gullwing Magazine is about ready for print 
(this week) we have a section for 2003 events that is available for 
all to use.

If your club or group has planned events, shows, etc and you would 
like them to be listed please email us with the info and we will get 
everything in that we can before printing starts.

Thanks
Ron
gullwingmagazine(at)juno.com






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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 11:30:31 -0500
From: "William Bowie" <wbowie_at_dml_sc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Future DeLorean Owner Threads

Hi Ya'll!!
             I'm yet another person who is moving toward purchasing a
Delorean.  I've been doing research and reading owners webpages (good and
bad experiences).  I want to become very familiarized with the car inside
and out before I go out looking for one to purchase.  I live in Columbia ,
South Carolina.  So if there are any owners who live close enough and who
wouldn't mind putting up with some questions, contact me.  I would like to
take the DMC Houston inspection checklist and practice on someones' car.  I
hope this doesn't sound crazy.  I just want to be sure that the Delorean I
get will need minimal or minor mechanical work. The best way I know how to
do this is arming myself with information.

Thanks!

----- Original Message -----
From: <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 12:21 AM
Subject: [DML] Future DeLorean Owner Threads


> These various "future DeLorean owner" threads have taken on a life of
> their own (and are refreshingly positive in tone)!
>
> My 2 cents: Unless you have deep pockets, success will depend on
> amount of mechanic work you can do yourself. Not only are shop labor
> rates eye-openingly high, but many procedures on these little cars
> seem to take longer than they would on other makes. A double whammy.
>
> DeLoreans are not ideal vehicles to to learn mechanic skills on,
> primarily because of issues of access, not complicatedness. But it can
> be done. And I emphasize again value of knowledge base just an eMail
> message or phone call away. Talked to Rob Grady for half hour once
> myself (hope I always remember info he shared). As David T pointed out
> in a private message, primary concern of 99% DeLorean owners is
> helping any way possible to get yet one more car on the road. Try
> taking THAT to General Motors.
>
> Successful auto mechanicing (good Southern term) is a process of
> knowing when to say "when." When to ask for advice or assistance. When
> to take a break, even until the next weekend. When to farm a procedure
> out. When to trust an intuition. Start small: learn how to change your
> own oil and do your own tune-up. When upgrading factory stereo,
> consider doing it yourself rather than a sound shop. The car WILL
> break from time to time (it IS a machine) -- use those times as
> learning experiences, not head beating sessions. You'll be surprised
> how quickly latest new owner is coming to YOU for info.
>
> Of course you should START with a car consistent with your skills at
> that time. Not everyone is a Dave S!
>
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>





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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 17:44:50 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Trailing Arm Bolt Replacement.

You CANNOT hold the rear of the car up by the trailing arms or the
rear tires to do this. You MUST hold the rear of the car up by the frame.
 Loosen the bolts first and rotate the head of the bolt with a wrench.
If it is straight the trailing arm won't move around. If it does you
may have to slice the bolt up into several pieces to get it out if it
is bent. If the shims are "munched up" you should replace them. The
Toby TAB"S should have come with a torque spec. You may have to get a
kit for the shields, the little bolts tend to break. Rob Grady has a
kit of a strip with 3 studs attached to fix that. While in there look
around for anything that doesn't look "koscher" meaning loose,
missing, out of place, rusty, cut, etc. In particular inspect the
brake hoses and pads, C/V boots (4) exhaust system, and oil and
coolant leaks on the motor. As long as you are there you should also
check the trans level and flush the brakes and clutch. If the car has
never had an alignment (or if you just don't know) you should have a
good 4 wheel alignment done by a shop that knows how to use their
machine. Inspect the short rubber hose on the fuel accumulater, they
are getting old and many are showing their age by cracking. You don't
need to grease the bolts, under normal conditions they shouldn't move.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...>"
<DMCVegas_at_dml_l...> wrote:
> Saturday morning, I plan on replacing the Trailing Arm Bolts on my
car, along 
> with the rubber bushings as well. Does anyone have any tips before I
start in 
> on this job? BTW, it's a 5-Speed.
> 
> Also, what specificly should I torque the TABs to? So far, I've seen
50-55, and 
> have even heard 60lbs. Which one is correct? And what should I
torque the 
> bolts to hold the bushings in place to? And of course, are there any
nuts or 
> bolts that I should consider replacing as well? I have a set of
Toby-TABs that 
> I'm just now getting around to installing, and they came with new
nuts, and 2 
> washers each.
> 
> I have read that I should count the washers, and reinstall to keep the 
> alignment correct, and that I should grease the bolts where they'll
make 
> contact with the steel sleeves in the rubber bushings too.
> 
> Since I don't have a lift to place the car on, will ramps for the
rear wheels 
> work? And if not, what should I use? Gut feeling tells me that the
job needs to 
> be done, and soon. Rear clunking is getting worse along with traction. 
> Especially after I turned a corner and hit a VERY nasty pothole. It
sounded 
> worse than it felt, but was enough to trip my inertia switch!
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 01:34:09 -0000
From: "Toby Peterson <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: Re: Trailing Arm Bolt Replacement.

Robert - Here it is, Saturday evening, and I just saw your message 
about doing your TAB's this morning.  I hope that it went well.  
I'll run through your questions, just in case you put it off for a 
day, or perhaps you want to check your work.  The book says to 
torque the TAB's to 55 ft-lbs. I believe they are assuming that the 
nut is torqued, rather than the head of the bolt.  Most people wind 
up torqueing the bolt, so you should increase the torque value 10% 
to account for friction, etc.  However, if you apply grease or 
antiseize compound to the bolt, including the threads, you should 
reduce it somewhere around 10% - 15%.  I normally apply antiseize 
compound to the entire bolt, and torque the bolt to 55 ft-lbs and 
call it good.  The bolts that attach the bushings should be torqued 
to 16 ft-lbs.  The shims that are used for alignment should be put 
back in exactly as they were found to preserve the original 
alignment.  I normally flip all of the big flat washers over to 
provide a fresh face for the joint.  These large washers need to be 
placed correctly for the joint to function as intended.  Most people 
find that the washers are worn where they contacted the sleeves, 
etc.  I use ramps to give me room under the car, and then a jack to 
lift the car on the side I am working on to allow the wheel to be 
manipulated during installation of the new TAB's.  This helps align 
all of the sleeves, etc. so you can get the bolt in .. which can be 
a challenge sometimes.  I supply smaller flat washers with the kit 
so that you can adjust the "grip length" of the TAB's based on how 
many shims are used. At least one should be used under the self-
locking nuts.  Also, please let us know what the condition of your 
old bolts were.  Inquiring minds want to know.  Please feel free to 
contact me offlist at tobyp(AT)katewwdb.com if you have any 
questions or concerns.

(Moderator - Feel free to snip as you see fit)

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
Winged1


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas <DMCVegas_at_dml_l...>" 
<DMCVegas_at_dml_l...> wrote:
> Saturday morning, I plan on replacing the Trailing Arm Bolts on my 
car, along 
> with the rubber bushings as well. Does anyone have any tips before 
I start in 
> on this job? BTW, it's a 5-Speed.
> 
> Also, what specificly should I torque the TABs to? So far, I've 
seen 50-55, and 
> have even heard 60lbs. Which one is correct? And what should I 
torque the 
> bolts to hold the bushings in place to? And of course, are there 
any nuts or 
> bolts that I should consider replacing as well? I have a set of 
Toby-TABs that 
> I'm just now getting around to installing, and they came with new 
nuts, and 2 
> washers each.
> 
> I have read that I should count the washers, and reinstall to keep 
the 
> alignment correct, and that I should grease the bolts where 
they'll make 
> contact with the steel sleeves in the rubber bushings too.
> 
> Since I don't have a lift to place the car on, will ramps for the 
rear wheels 
> work? And if not, what should I use? Gut feeling tells me that the 
job needs to 
> be done, and soon. Rear clunking is getting worse along with 
traction. 
> Especially after I turned a corner and hit a VERY nasty pothole. 
It sounded 
> worse than it felt, but was enough to trip my inertia switch!
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 23:54:08 -0500
From: Mathew Halpern <mhalpern_at_dml_tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: DeLorean Desktops

Hey Everyone,

I've designed a DeLorean desktop graphic for my computer and thought that I
should share it with those who can really appreciate it.  So, I've taken the
liberty of posting it to the group.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/files/delorean_desktops/

There are 3 different sizes to fit standard monitor resolutions.  If I don't
have your resolution posted, email me with your resolution request and I'll
try to accommodate.

ENJOY!

Regards,
Mathew
--
Cool stuff for the DeLorean enthusiast:
http://www.cafeshops.com/delorean_shop




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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 23:59:39 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Powder Coated Alternator

Group, I have been working on this for a while. Now it's done. I think this 
is a rare Brute. A D140PC ( Powder Coated ) Alternator. We can powder coat 
and build any size Delorean alternator in red color. Special colors on 
request but may take a while.
John hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/alternators.shtml
  



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