From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1366
Date: Friday, January 31, 2003 1:14 PM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Stainless Steel Illusion - Update
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

2. Re: TOBY TAB alternatives
From: "Toby Peterson <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>

3. Re: "clicking" noise
From: Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>

4. Re: TOBY TABs
From: "Toby Peterson <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>

5. NOS TAB alternative [was: Re: Toby TABS]
From: "Toby Peterson <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>

6. Frozen Battery
From: "content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

7. Re: tune up question
From: "content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

8. Re: battery sparks and no-start
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

9. Re: Defroster switch and temp gauge
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

10. Re: "clicking" noise
From: "Harold McElraft <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

11. Re: Re: temp gauge
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_sybercom.net>

12. Re: battery sparks and no-start
From: "Harold McElraft <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

13. RE: Toby TAB alternative
From: "Darryl Tinnerstet" <darryl_at_dml_techline.com>

14. TOBY-TAB's - second batch
From: "Toby Peterson <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>

15. RE: RE: Toby TAB alternative
From: "mgutkowski_at_dml_cix.co.uk" <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

16. Re: Toby TAB alternative
From: "Harold McElraft <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

17. Re: Stainless Steel Illusion - Update
From: "Kevin Rawlings <kdrawlings_at_dml_sympatico.ca>" <kdrawlings_at_dml_sympatico.ca>

18. RE: DeLorean on Monster Garage - Was: Delorean mention on J eopardy!
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <kenm_at_dml_csus.edu>

19. help bending frame/facia bracket
From: billsfanmd_at_dml_aol.com

20. Deloreans at World of Wheels in Chicago
From: "d_rex_2002 <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:43:06 -0600
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Stainless Steel Illusion - Update

The reprint for SSI is moving along - hopefully books will be available in
early summer. Pricing yet to be determined, but certainly affordable for
everyone to have a copy (or two).

John Lamm does not have the time or interest in creating an additional
chapter to cover what has transpired over the past twenty-plus years, so
look for this to essentially be a reprint of the original. However, we are
trying to identify all the errors and corrections that need to be made so
that this second edition of the book will be as accurate as possible.

If you are aware of any mistakes in the book, please forward them to:

ssi (at) delorean.com

These will be reviewed and, if possible, corrected prior to the reprinting.

James Espey
NOTE OUR NEW ADDRESS/PHONE NUMBERS
DeLorean Motor Company
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396

281/441-2537 Voice
281/441-2813 Fax
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com 




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:24:21 -0000
From: "Toby Peterson <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: Re: TOBY TAB alternatives

Harold - Based on this message, it sounds like the bracket acts as a 
secondary retention feature to hold everything together in the event 
of a catastrophic failure of the TAB, bushing, or bushing attachment.  
This is important to note because some people may think that this 
bracket is designed to create a "double shear" joint, which would 
reduce the stresses on the TAB's to a very manageable level.  I 
remember a post from Darryl Tinnerstet where he talked about the fact 
that it is not possible to create a double shear joint without a major 
redesign of the frame attachments and the trailing arm, because of the 
motion that the joint goes through as the wheel moves up and down.  
This unusual motion is caused by the geometry of the angled trailing 
arm, together with the angle of the frame "rail".  The new SS frame 
that Pearce Design has does incorporate a spherical bearing into a 
true double shear joint, but it requires a new trailing arm and frame 
attachment.  Why do I point all of this out?  To make sure that 
everybody understands that this bracket, while it is probably a good 
idea for safety in the event of a failed TAB, does not prevent the 
failure of the TAB.  Naturally, I'm referring to the OEM (or currently 
offered equivalent) bolts.  I'm quite sure the List won't be getting 
any reports of failed TOBY-TAB's.  On that note, I have received a 
number of off-List messages in support of the second batch, and I will 
be posting further information on that program very soon.  Stay tuned, 
and thank you for your support!

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
Winged1


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Harold McElraft <hmcelraft_at_dml_a...>" 
<hmcelraft_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I purchased one of Dave's TAB Kits years ago. It is one of those 
> things I always thought the original design should have included. It 
> does require some drilling (no big deal) If a TAB should ever come 
> lose or break it is caught by a bracket support. No major 
> destruction or loss of control. It is good insurance TOBY TAB or 
> regular TAB.
> 
> Harold McElraft - 3354





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:26:04 +0100
From: Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_home.nl>
Subject: Re: "clicking" noise

On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:01:47 -0800 (PST), Larry Koden wrote:

> Second, when I drive the car, the car makes a
> "clicking" noise that I can't locate. (click, click,
> click) The odd thing is that when I press the brake
> pedal half way down the clicking stops when I release
> the pedal it starts again.

I had the same problem AND have had it fixed...
All that needed to be done was installing a pair
of anti rattle springs on the rear calipers.

The pads have a bit of play on the retaining pins and I had
a slight high point on one of my rotors. This caused the pad
to be lifted up and then drop down onto the pins with every
revolution of the wheel. Braking brings the pad in constant
contact with the rotor, so it doesn't have any space to rattle.

Put a wheel of your car off of the ground using a jack and then
rotat the wheel by hand. Hear the clicking? Take off the wheel
and feel the pads, if they move enough fit a couple of anti rattle
springs. I had a hard time finding any, but was lucky enough to
get a pair from someone that didn't need them when he swapped his
pads out for new ones of a different compound (thanks again Ed!)

Hope this helps,

JAN van de Wouw
Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...

#05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000

------------------------------




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:37:01 -0000
From: "Toby Peterson <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: Re: TOBY TABs

Adam - I know that there have been a couple of posts about the left 
hand TAB replacement on automatic transmission equipped cars.  Without 
rehashing them, I have changed the TAB's on two cars myself, and it's 
really not that bad with the right tools.  I cut the original TAB out, 
and installed a TOBY-TAB with the head on the outside.  It just fits 
lengthwise, but loosening the bushing attachment bolts does help with 
the installation.  This same technique was used by a mechanic working 
on another PNDC members' car with no apparent difficulties.  The 
other option of partially removing the trailing arm seems to work 
as well, based on previous posts.  Fear not ... if we can do it, you 
can do it!  I will be posting further information on the second batch 
very soon.  Thank you for your support.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
Winged1

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Adam <acprice1_at_dml_h...>" <acprice1_at_dml_h...> 
wrote:
> I am also willing to prepay for a set of toby tabs. I said I was 
> going to buy a set last time, but didn't because I heard that you 
> had to move the transmission to install them on an automatic. But it 
> seems there is an easier way so I will try it. 
> I also think a paypal account for this would be a good idea.
> Adam Price




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:55:16 -0000
From: "Toby Peterson <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: NOS TAB alternative [was: Re: Toby TABS]

Farrar - The bolts that John offers are somewhat stronger than the OEM 
bolts (12.9 on the metric scale as opposed to 10.9).  They are made 
from carbon steel with soft cadmium plating for corrosion protection.  
While they are incrementally better than the original bolts, they are 
still subject to corrosion if the plating is disturbed.  Also, cadmium 
plating is sacrificial, meaning that it is designed to dissipate over 
time.  In effect, it corrodes away so that the steel bolt underneath 
won't.  However, when it's gone ... it's gone.  As far as strength is 
concerned, since we don't really know what the true stresses in the 
joint are, without a lot of strain gage measurements, we don't know if 
this incrementally stronger bolt is just good enough (or not).  The 
TOBY-TAB's are 50% stronger, and will never corrode.  Each owner must 
make his or her decision on which way they want to go, based on $$ 
and desired level of confidence.  Either way is certainly better than 
ignoring the whole problem.  See the old poll where 30% of those 
responding said, in effect, "don't know, and don't care".  Those 
people really bother me!

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
Winged1   


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Farrar Hudkins <fhudkins_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> James,
> I have seen a set of TABs on specialtauto.com which are supposed to 
> be better than the NOS ones. (They are certainly newer!) I can't 
> recall at the moment what their construction is, but they're more 
> available than the Toby TABs.





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:14:57 -0000
From: "content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Frozen Battery

A frozen battery can also crack the housing, which is a real mess
(water inside isn't TOTALLY benign).

Bill Robertson
#5939

>In these cold temperature NEVER let the battery go dead.
>When a battery is very low or dead the electolyte inside is water not
>acid and can freeze. If a battery is ever frozen then the plates
>inside buckle and short out to each other greatly reducing it's
>capacity. NEVER TRY TO JUMP START OR CHARGE A FROZEN BATTERY, IT COULD
>EXPLODE!!! If it is that cold and the car is not used regularly you
>should remove the battery from the car and keep it in a warm place.
>David Teitelbaum
>vin 10757 




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:25:30 -0000
From: "content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: tune up question

I'd recommend moving entire upper air assembly forward, or better yet
remove altogether. Because of my steel lines, removal mandatory. Timed
myself -- 15 minutes (for some reason re-installation is closer to
half hour). Is still a long reach to back of engine, but at least
everything's accessible.

Helpful hint: put retaining clip on throttle linkage BEFORE
reattaching U pipes.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "ksgrimsr <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_i...>"
<knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_i...> wrote:
> You don't need to remove the intake manifod to do a tune-up.
> 
> If the reason you're anticipating removing the intake is to gain 
> better access to the distributor cap and wires, the easy approach is 
> to remove the two allen screws that hold the fuel mixture unit to 
> the intake manifold. ..........



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:22:22 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: battery sparks and no-start

List,

thank you very much for all the tips with my car.  i am experienced enough to 
know by now that when the car ran perfect the last time you started it and 
now it won't start at all, it's nothing to panic about!!  it's usually 
something very simple that will make you go 'DOHH!'

exactly the same in this case.  i gave up in the relay box and opened the 
engine bay.  first thing i saw was the piggy-backed wire on the upper right 
ignition resistor prong had broken off the 2/1 connector.  a quick trip to 
the hardware store for a new connector and it started up right away.  it just 
goes to show that even when you think you are positive about something, it is 
always good to double-check your assumptions!! how the wire broke i have no 
clue since i wasn't in there since it was running last, but oh well. simple 
fix for a stupid problem, as usual!

as for the battery sparking - that's my next order of buisness.  
luckily i will be able to make my stereo installation appointment on monday 
so i can report the results early next week!

Thanks as always,
Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:13:55 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Defroster switch and temp gauge

In a message dated 1/30/03 8:39:05 AM Central Standard Time, 
darkstarmedia_at_dml_attbi.com writes:


> Also, after i re installed my dash i noticed that my temp gauge doesn't
> work.  it just points straight down... any ideas??
> 
> Darkstar

hello,

gauge problems are often caused by the tabs on the PCB board being bent and 
touching each other.  remove the binnacle again, and remove the two 
connectors.  check the tabs and make sure they are straight, then reinstall.  
that will probably do the job.  

Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:16:00 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: "clicking" noise

PJ Grady has the anti-rattle kits. They stop all that clicking. 
However, if the rotors have too much run out you need to have that 
corrected first. A really good turn on the rotors can eliminate this 
too but most machine shops are not that careful and leave enough run 
out to make the noise but not affect the brake pedal.

Harold McElraft -3354


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jan van de Wouw <jvdwouw_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:01:47 -0800 (PST), Larry Koden wrote:
> 
> > Second, when I drive the car, the car makes a
> > "clicking" noise that I can't locate. (click, click,
> > click) The odd thing is that when I press the brake
> > pedal half way down the clicking stops when I release
> > the pedal it starts again.
> 
> I had the same problem AND have had it fixed...
> All that needed to be done was installing a pair
> of anti rattle springs on the rear calipers.
> 
> The pads have a bit of play on the retaining pins and I had
> a slight high point on one of my rotors. This caused the pad
> to be lifted up and then drop down onto the pins with every
> revolution of the wheel. Braking brings the pad in constant
> contact with the rotor, so it doesn't have any space to rattle.
> 
> Put a wheel of your car off of the ground using a jack and then
> rotat the wheel by hand. Hear the clicking? Take off the wheel
> and feel the pads, if they move enough fit a couple of anti rattle
> springs. I had a hard time finding any, but was lucky enough to
> get a pair from someone that didn't need them when he swapped his
> pads out for new ones of a different compound (thanks again Ed!)
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> JAN van de Wouw
> Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
> Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...
> 
> #05141 "Dagger" since Sept. 2000
> 
> ------------------------------




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:28:27 -0500
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_sybercom.net>
Subject: Re: Re: temp gauge

With the key turned ON insert a thin wire in thru the speedometer trip meter
reset knob hole and give the needle a little push. It should pop right back
in place.

Dave Sontos
vin 02573
----- Original Message -----
From: <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:41 AM
Subject: [DML] Re: temp gauge


> This is going to sound wierd, but... whack the left side of the
> binnacle with your hand a couple of times. It will usually free up
> the needle.
>
> Dave S
>
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Also, after i re installed my dash i noticed that my temp gauge
> doesn't
> > work.  it just points straight down... any ideas??
> >
> > Darkstar



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 01:40:00 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: battery sparks and no-start

You checked the battery it is ok at 12.66 volts after getting rid of 
the surface charge. You hear the fuel pump prime when you first turn 
the key on. Turn the key off wait a few seconds turn it back on and 
hear the fuel pump prime the system again. You can do this a few 
times to really load up the system if you want. Still won't start 
but it IS turning over.

An often overlooked starting aid is the spark voltage relay in the 
engine compartment. It provides full battery voltage on start to the 
coil. After the starter is turned off the voltage is resisted down 
to 7 or 8 volts. This is almost a necessity for very cold starts 
because of all the drag. This circuit is often forgotten about and 
it becomes weak or non operational. One way to go around the circuit 
is to take a jumper wire, connect it to the double plug-in side of 
the ignition resistor and then to the positive jump start post. The 
resistor is the thing that looks like two cigarettes together 
mounted on the fire wall by the engine compartment light switch. 
That will give full battery voltage to the coil. Try starting again.

Harold McElraft - 3354







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:08:29 -0800
From: "Darryl Tinnerstet" <darryl_at_dml_techline.com>
Subject: RE: Toby TAB alternative

Shannon said  "I recently learned of a bracket support for the TABs that Dave Bauerle in Radnor, OH has made for his own cars & clients of his in the past." 

A word of caution here - think about the geometry of the rear suspension.  The trailing arm twists as it moves up and down, due to the upper and lower links being different length.  This is what keeps the "contact patch" of the tire in the same spot as it moves up and down, and is the main reason for the rubber bushing the TAB goes through.  Any bracket that firmly captures the outer end of the bolt is going to force the arm itself to twist, not something you want to do.  If the bracket is only intended to capture the arm if the bolt fails that would be different, but I doubt that's the case.  1963-1983 Corvettes put the rubber bushing in the end of the arm and supported the bolt at both ends, but our setup is unfortunately inferior to that.  And this is precisely why Toby chose to engineer a super bolt that would not bend or break.  

I seriously considered marketing a bracket like this myself, without knowing Dave even had one, but passed due to the problem noted above.  I haven't actually seen Dave's bracket, but similar ones were available years ago, and there's a good reason they weren't widely used.  If you need further proof, check out the new stainless steel frames.  I believe they use a modified trailing arm that puts the bushing in the arm, ala Corvette.


Darryl Tinnerstet
Specialty Automotive
McCleary, WA
www.delorean-parts.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 05:45:58 -0000
From: "Toby Peterson <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: TOBY-TAB's - second batch

Hello List - I have received quite a few emails off-list expressing 
support for moving forward.  These expressions of support are in the 
form of commitments for orders, and the number one question is, "how 
much ($) and where to?".  First of all, I want to congratulate those 
of you who have stepped forward.  I appreciate your faith and trust 
in the project.  I really believe that the DeLorean community will 
be a better place as we continually strive to improve on an already 
awesome automobile.  Now then ... Here's how we'd like to work it.  
Darryl Tinnerstet ( www.delorean-parts.com )is already set up for 
PayPal, and he is also willing to accept personal checks, money 
orders, or cashiers' checks as prepayment for the second batch.  
Checks can be sent to the address found on his website.  As your 
payment is received, you will be put on a list.  When the bolts 
become available, and the kits are assembled (washers, nuts, etc.), 
kits will be shipped ASAP in the same order.  Based on the volume of 
commitments received so far, it is looking relatively firm, but the 
number of actual prepayments received will decide if and when we 
move forward.  I would like to be able to sign with the manufacturer 
by the middle of February so that the bolts can be available for 
spring tech sessions around the country.  I can tell you that every 
order counts at this point.  Based on several requests for extra 
nuts to be included for the "double nut fans", we will include them 
in this batch.  I will update the instructions with appropriate 
guidance on that, as well as updates on the automatic transmission 
experiences we have had.  Based on input from the company in terms 
of available material and current workload, we are forecasting about 
65 sets (give or take) for the second run.  They will have to "kill" 
one or two bolts in the certification testing prior to delivery.  
Darryl asked me if a third run is a possibility ... that's up to 
you.  Let's work through this phase, and then we'll have a look.  
Okay - to quote Buzz Lightyear, "To infinity, and beyond!"

Moderator - Thank you so much for your patience.  I'm working on my 
skills at being brief.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248
Winged1     




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:34:05 -0500
From: "mgutkowski_at_dml_cix.co.uk" <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: RE: RE: Toby TAB alternative

Hi Darryl (and all)

I've been pondering this issue that Darren has raised and have a few
thoughts to share. Firstly I want to point out that these are just my own
musings and not based on any particular qualifications or knowledge -
merely a few questions.

Firstly, the Pearce Design website has photos of their new trailing arm
mounts here

http://www.pearce-design.com/PFImprovements.html

Now, we don't _really_ know all the design work that went into the
DeLorean's chassis at Lotus, and to be frank, what we have is a really
quite complex system. The more I think about all the movements involved,
the more I get a headache. We know Lotus spent a great deal of time
engineering the rear suspension to take account of that massive chunk of
aluminium we call an engine, and its relatively high mounting position. The
rear wheels do not just go up and down, but castor and camber angles change
dependant on body roll because of the interaction of the trailing arm and
unequal wishbones - all of which go towards keeping that heavy back end
under control.

But here's a very basic observation: The original mount allows the trailing
arm to move up and down in the axis perpendicular to that of the trailing
arm. The Pearce Design system allows it to move up and down in the axis
perpendicular to the backbone.

I could be completely wrong, or this could come well within what us
engineers call "near enough to make no difference". However I can't help
but wonder why a company as experienced (possibly THE most experienced) as
Lotus would make such an obvious boo-boo as have a critical bolt in a
"single shear" application (is that right, Toby?) when supporting it at
both ends is so easy to achieve. It seems to me that it's been done that
way for a reason, and to muck about with it is to potentially adversely
alter the way the car was designed to handle. 

I sometimes wonder if adjustable lower control arms are a good idea for the
same reason.

Best Wishes

Martin
#1458
#4426

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Darryl Tinnerstet darryl_at_dml_techline.com

A word of caution here - think about the geometry of the rear suspension. 
The trailing arm twists as it moves up and down, due to the upper and lower
links being different length.  This is what keeps the "contact patch" of
the tire in the same spot as it moves up and down, and is the main reason
for the rubber bushing the TAB goes through.  Any bracket that firmly
captures the outer end of the bolt is going to force the arm itself to
twist, not something you want to do.  If the bracket is only intended to
capture the arm if the bolt fails that would be different, but I doubt
that's the case.  1963-1983 Corvettes put the rubber bushing in the end of
the arm and supported the bolt at both ends, but our setup is unfortunately
inferior to that.  And this is precisely why Toby chose to engineer a super
bolt that would not bend or break.  



--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:19:12 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Toby TAB alternative

Dave's kit is a "catch" in case the TAB fails - it does not modify 
the suspension in any way.

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Darryl Tinnerstet" <darryl_at_dml_t...> 
wrote:
> Shannon said  "I recently learned of a bracket support for the 
TABs that Dave Bauerle in Radnor, OH has made for his own cars & 
clients of his in the past." 
> 
> A word of caution here - think about the geometry of the rear 
suspension.  The trailing arm twists as it moves up and down, due to 
the upper and lower links being different length.  This is what 
keeps the "contact patch" of the tire in the same spot as it moves 
up and down, and is the main reason for the rubber bushing the TAB 
goes through.  Any bracket that firmly captures the outer end of the 
bolt is going to force the arm itself to twist, not something you 
want to do.  If the bracket is only intended to capture the arm if 
the bolt fails that would be different, but I doubt that's the 
case.  1963-1983 Corvettes put the rubber bushing in the end of the 
arm and supported the bolt at both ends, but our setup is 
unfortunately inferior to that.  And this is precisely why Toby 
chose to engineer a super bolt that would not bend or break.  
> 
> I seriously considered marketing a bracket like this myself, 
without knowing Dave even had one, but passed due to the problem 
noted above.  I haven't actually seen Dave's bracket, but similar 
ones were available years ago, and there's a good reason they 
weren't widely used.  If you need further proof, check out the new 
stainless steel frames.  I believe they use a modified trailing arm 
that puts the bushing in the arm, ala Corvette.
> 
> 
> Darryl Tinnerstet
> Specialty Automotive
> McCleary, WA
> www.delorean-parts.com
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:29:38 -0000
From: "Kevin Rawlings <kdrawlings_at_dml_sympatico.ca>" <kdrawlings_at_dml_sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Illusion - Update

Hey, this is an excellent idea!  I always wanted a copy of that book, 
but couldn't afford to get one.  Will the reprint be officially 
published and sold in bookstores again, or will this be a DeLorean-
enthusiast-only offer?

Kevin Rawlings
DeLorean Canada
DRIVE STAINLESS



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, James Espey <james_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> The reprint for SSI is moving along - hopefully books will be 
available in
> early summer. Pricing yet to be determined, but certainly 
affordable for
> everyone to have a copy (or two).
> 
> John Lamm does not have the time or interest in creating an 
additional
> chapter to cover what has transpired over the past twenty-plus 
years, so
> look for this to essentially be a reprint of the original. However, 
we are
> trying to identify all the errors and corrections that need to be 
made so
> that this second edition of the book will be as accurate as 
possible.
> 
> If you are aware of any mistakes in the book, please forward them 
to:
> 
> ssi (at) delorean.com
> 
> These will be reviewed and, if possible, corrected prior to the 
reprinting.
> 
> James Espey
> NOTE OUR NEW ADDRESS/PHONE NUMBERS
> DeLorean Motor Company
> 15023 Eddie Drive
> Humble, Texas 77396
> 
> 281/441-2537 Voice
> 281/441-2813 Fax
> 800/USA-DMC1
> http://www.delorean.com




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:23:23 -0800
From: "Montgomery, Ken" <kenm_at_dml_csus.edu>
Subject: RE: DeLorean on Monster Garage - Was: Delorean mention on J eopardy!

An article by Solange DeSantis appeared in the August 1985 issue of Popular
Mechanics. Here's some highlights from that article: Artist Ron Cobb did the
first blueprints for the time machine and Andy Probert refined the designs
(Mr. Proberts' designs can be seen in the extras section of the BTTF DVD
set). They purchased 3 DeLoreans from the classified ads at a total cost of
about $50,000. The 3 cars were transformed at Kevin Pike's Filmtrix Inc.
shop in N. Hollywood. The final total cost of the cars and the conversions
was about $150,000. 2 cars were kept together and the 3rd was gutted to act
as a stationary platform.

So was George Barris involved in the construction of the other cars used to
film the 2 subsequent BTTF movies? Without first-hand knowledge, who can
say?

I have made a Quicktime clip (about 700K) from the Monster Garage program
and placed it in the 'files' section of this mailing list: 
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/files/

=======================================================
Ken Montgomery	Sacramento, CA  VIN #10911  'OUTTIME'
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/montkw/delorean/index.htm
mailto:kenm_at_dml_csus.edu
President, Northern California DeLorean Motor Club
http://www.ncdmc.org
Keeper of the International DeLorean Owners Directory
http://www.dmcnews.com  mailto:directory_at_dml_dmcnews.com
=======================================================
 



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:08:19 EST
From: billsfanmd_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: help bending frame/facia bracket

I'm in the process of working under the car since its been around 0 degrees 
here on the East Coast since August. One repair I am working on is where the 
rear of the frame meets the facia. The car was obviously hit from the rear or 
else a tree jumped out in front of the previous owner when he was backing up. 
The facia is in excellent shape. What I want to fix is the metal corner of 
the frame. It is not that bad but it would be nice to bend it all back to the 
orginal postion, sand up where the epoxy has chipped off and repaint.....It 
is only on the passenger side.

I was thinking at the very least using pliers and slowly bend the metal back 
in postion but thought maybe other people have repaired this area. Maybe 
using a rubber mallet and piece of wood to "pursuade" the metal back into 
postion? It is mostly cosmetic but it would be nice to have it repaired. My 
facia is about 1/4 away from the car on the passenger side so correcting 
these bends will help my facia fit snug again.

Any suggestions would be great

Mike C
2109



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:40:58 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002 <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Deloreans at World of Wheels in Chicago

The Deloreans are in the building, awaiting the start of the show.

This year, the D Rex is joined by one of the top custom, lowered
Deloreans around, owned by Eric Weber and Marni Patrick of Illinois.
Eric's car may have the most extensive set of high tech gagets and
best quality sound system, and being lowered, it helps to depict the
size difference between the D Rex and a more standard D suspension. 
Watch for an ad for Eric's Custom D Services in GullWing Magazine.

As for the UP-graded D Rex, two words seem to describe its current
incarnation and those two words are "Biblical Proportions".

As a side note, there is a very nice Bricklin display at the show,
complete with an original Bricklin dealership sign.

The Chicago World of Wheels runs for the next three days.
Friday    5pm - 11pm
Saturday 11am - 11pm
Sunday   11am - 7pm

Keep an eye on:  www.DeloreanMotorCars.com  for a post show wrap up.

See you at the show!

Later,
Rich W.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/