From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1372
Date: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:48 PM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 23 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: To Rebuild to Part Out - That is the question.
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>

2. Re: Engine sources
From: "content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

3. New poster, several questions
From: "Aaron Townsley" <townsa_at_dml_rpi.edu>

4. Re: Re: Bauerle - TAB Supports
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

5. DeLorean Fuel Flow Measurements
From: "drdhdmd <doctordhd_at_dml_aol.com>" <doctordhd_at_dml_aol.com>

6. Delorean on NPR
From: "erikgeerdink <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Re: Small world
From: "robert parker" <roberthparker_at_dml_hotmail.com>

8. Re: New poster, several questions
From: "DMCboi1der" <dmcboy1der_at_dml_hotpop.com>

9. Re: New poster, several questions
From: Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>

10. Re: New poster, several questions
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

11. Uploaded photos
From: "content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

12. DeLorean # 1908 - For Sale
From: "Harold McElraft <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

13. Need Parade Photos!
From: "nbrommer2k <nickbrom_at_dml_aol.com>" <nickbrom_at_dml_aol.com>

14. Re: shift pattern was:New poster, several questions
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

15. Re: DeLorean Fuel Flow Measurements
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

16. Re: Re: Engine sources
From: Mark Noeltner <mark_at_dml_buffalochips.org>

17. Re: Re: Engine sources
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

18. Re: Re: Engine sources
From: DMC12Don_at_dml_aol.com

19. No Start!!
From: Paul Salsbury <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>

20. Re: Engine sources
From: Ulysses Stockdale <smoolie671_at_dml_yahoo.com>

21. Re: Re: To Rebuild to Part Out - That is the question.
From: AJL521_at_dml_aol.com

22. Can I get some advise please -->Re: Rear ended and insurance
From: "stitsien <stitsien_at_dml_lvcm.com>" <stitsien_at_dml_lvcm.com>

23. Re: Re: Engine sources
From: "mgutkowski_at_dml_cix.co.uk" <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:09:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Vin 5386 <delorean_stainless_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: To Rebuild to Part Out - That is the question.

David brings up an interesting point. I believe the NJ
laws pertaining to title swaping and tag removal are
pretty steep. My father was a police officer in East
Orange NJ. He ran into this stuff alot. Due to alot of
chop shop opps the laws were changed to enforce
stricter regulations on this type of behaviour. One
might want to think twice about holding "dead" titles
as it could be a felony in certain states. Best bet is
to go down to your local police station or court house
and see if you can dig up some info pertaining to the
perticular rules, laws and regulations. Many acts have
been passed over the years to make it more and more
difficult to be involved in this type of behavior.
Many state's laws and regulations see no difference
between professional chop shop opps and single acts of
this type of offence so caution and a little diggging
might be in order to prevent finding yourself in deep
water. Personaly I don't think I look good in
horizontal strips :D

Todd
Vin 5386
--- "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>"
<jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net> wrote:
> As interesting as this sounds technically if you are
> "parting out" a 
> car then (at least here in New Jersey) you are
> supposed to surrender 
> the title back to the State DMV where they then
> retire it. It is (I 
> believe) a federal law that prevents you from moving
> a vin # and title 
> from one vehicle to another. This is to prevent
> having a stolen car 
> and "cleaning" it up with a different title. In
> practice you can 
> "rebuild" a car if keeping the origional frame, vin
> and title. It 
> becomes a question at what point is it still a car
> and has a legal 
> title? To actually sell a title (and a vin plate)
> without actually 
> getting a car sounds a little illegal. If a seller
> was to sell a title 
> I think the best thing to do is at least sell the
> fiberglass body and 
> dash to the same person. (These parts hold the vin
> tags).
>  I don't think it is very economical to consider
> this unless you have 
> at least 1 parts car. Ask Dave Stragand what he
> spent not counting his 
> time and you will quickly see the economics don't
> make sense unless 
> the car is valuable in it's own right like it was a
> movie car or it 
> was owned by a celebrity.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Bob Brandys
> <BobB_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> > 
> > One thought that was not discussed regarding poor
> condition cars was 
> > what happens to the titles of the parted out cars.
> > 
> > Right now there are  Deloreans that are being
> parted out because of 
> the 
> > value of the parts.
> > 
> > If the Delorean does evolve into a very desirable
> classic car like a 
> > camaro or mustang, titles from junked or "cut up"
> cars become 
> valuable.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating
> team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for
> sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


=====
For up to the minute details on the restoration of Vin5386 point your browser to, http://www.khpindustries.com/stainlessrestorations.html

__________________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 03:13:47 -0000
From: "content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Engine sources

>From a Volvo source:

B28F (PRV-6):

(1980 260 GLE) (1980 262 COUPE) (1981 260 GLE) (1981 262 COUPE) (1982
260 GLE) (1982 760 GLE) (1983 260 GLE) (1983 760 GLE) (1984 260 GLE)
(1984 760 GLE) (1985 260 GLE) (1985 760 GLE) (1986 760 GLE)

Basic block was also used in various Peugeots and Renaults (hence
name). Mine is a Renault R30TX (original owner melted factory block).
Some differences from DMC, but still recognizable as PRV.

Just in case anyone suggests: AMC Eagles *NEVER* used PRV. Only 6
cylinder offered was 258 inch inline plant (all AMC design, derived
from 232, ultimately the old 199). Same block (with fuel injected
head) used by Chrysler in Jeeps well after 1985. One tough engine, but
I don't think it'll fit in back of a little silver car...

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, john fredt <hecklerkochgmbh_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
>  
> What volvo models have engines whose block will fit the
deLoreans?With the least modifications please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:43:34 -0500
From: "Aaron Townsley" <townsa_at_dml_rpi.edu>
Subject: New poster, several questions

Hi All,
I am a first time poster to the board, but I have been reading for the past
few weeks.  I am sorry if tihs is going to the wrong place.  It's also a bit
long, sorry for that too.

History:
    It seems like this group is a wealth of information and I am glad to
have found it.  My father purchased a Delorean a little over a year ago.  I
don't the vin off hand, but I am sure I can find out if anyone is
interested.  I'm a bit more email savy so I'm writing on his behalf.  The
car was bought, driven rarely then put in a barn with a cement floor, for
apparently over a decade.

Problems:

Does anyone know a good Delorean person in the Southern Connecticut region?

The car runs fairly well, but seems to have several exhaust leaks including
the seals around the manifolds.  The tires are out-of-round from sitting, so
it has a noticable virbration on the road.

The alarm act quite funny, you only have a few moments after opening the
door to put your key in the ignition, or it goes off.  Were alarms standard?

Something in the manual shift seems to be off because it can be difficult to
get the car into reverse, is there a trick to it or what cold be up?

The locking mechansim for the that plastic-visor type hood thing (don't know
the name) on the back of the car was broken.  I am guessing those are
expensive, but can they be replaced?

Finally, are there any magazines, parts catalogs, and general resources you
recommend besides this list (it is a great resource though)?

I know this is all over the place, but I thank you in advance for any
information you can give me.  I'm in college and have a project car of my
own (1967 GTO) so I want to give my dad the best help I can.  It can be an
expensive passion but the more information the more info I get the more I
can help avoid some of my more expensive mistakes : ).

Thank you!

Aaron T.
Old Saybrook, CT




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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 09:45:33 -0600
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Bauerle - TAB Supports

Toby,

I installed Dave Brackets on my V8 DeLorean in addition to changing bolts.  
However, prior to installing the brackets I measured the movement of the 
bolt end under full load acceleration using a piece of clay.

I then installed the brackets and remeasured the movement. The brackets 
reduced the forward movement of the end of the bolt by almost 1/2".  

They clearly are to me superior to just having a bolt into the frame for 
high horsepower applications.

BOB






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 16:29:53 -0000
From: "drdhdmd <doctordhd_at_dml_aol.com>" <doctordhd_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: DeLorean Fuel Flow Measurements

OK after thinking about it some more, I agree that using the 
frequency 
valve data, is not the way to go.   I imagine that it only trims the 
fuel pressure and therefore the flow to maintain a closer match for 
the air fuel ratio.   After all Bosch has a system just like ours 
that 
does not use a frequency valve at all.

That HAL401 looks interesting and they are sending me some samples.   
The only thing I don't like is that you have to add the weight of a 
magnet to the air flow plate.   This may throw off the mixture.   For 
a 
given air flow, the plate will have moved down a bit more than it 
used to and, if I understand the system properly, will cause a higher 
pressure and thus more fuel to the injectors.   Ah, yes but the 
Lambda 
sensing this should let the frequency valve do a bit of 
compensation.   Will it be enough?   Another thing is what happens 
when 
the magnet falls into the intake manifold.   (Hey I'm a firm believer 
in Murphy's Law.)  Which bring me to the following question.   Does 
anyone know what the 10 mm bolt that holds the air flow plate to 
the 'arm" is screwed into?   Is there a nut on the underside or is 
the 
arm tapped.   I would hate to unscrew it and have the nut fall into 
the intake.   Does anyone have a better diagram of the "mixture 
control unit "  that would answer that question?   Maybe someone 
already 
has taken one of those things apart and knows.   I suppose if the arm 
were tapped the you could carefully remove the bolt and washer and 
maybe magnetize the screw.   I believe both the screw and the washer 
are made of magnetizable metal, i.e., steel.

Another way to go might be a reflective optical sensor, I ordered one 
from www.allelectronics.com, one of my favorite parts suppliers The 
part is a Vactec 21L900.  All Electronics, has some really small and 
very powerful neodymium magnets, too

In the interim, I am still waiting to receive the AUDI 5000 trip 
computer I won on ebay.   As I mentioned before, I read info on the 
net 
that the AUDI Bosch system has a potentiometer attached to the air 
flow plate pivot and uses that for the trip computer sensor.   Can we 
do something like that?   I also tried to build a solid state 
anemometer.   I found the response to an air flow was good but when 
the air stopped it took too much time to settle down.   It uses a 
plastic transistor as itts sensor.   I built it because I believe 
that 
some OEMs use an anemometer setup to measure air flow, i.e. the AIR 
MASS SENSOR.   They usually use a "hot wire technique" which I could 
not find a circuit for other than a block diagram.   The sensor of a 
hot wire system is also usually very fragile, but I would imagine 
much more responsive.   I did read about a circuit that used the 
filament from a light bulb, with out the glass envelope, but I could 
not find the circuit.   Hey is there a word limit on posts?   

Eagerly, awaiting your responses,

Dave & 6530




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 18:16:33 -0000
From: "erikgeerdink <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Delorean on NPR

A buddy of mine here at work said he heard some info about the 
Delorean on NPR last night.  Unfortunately he didn't catch which 
program it was, he thinks it might have been "Studio 360" but he 
isn't sure.  He caught the tail end of it.  They mentioned about 
8900 made, 5000 left on the road, and a gold delorean in Texas.  
Anyone here listen to NPR last night?

Erik




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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 19:06:43 +0000
From: "robert parker" <roberthparker_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Small world

  It is, indeed, a Small World: I just did paperwork for a home equity loan, 
and the fellow assisting me at the mortgage company used to work with John 
Delorean at GM MAAANY moons ago.  Interesting stories from the inside.  
E.g., I didn't know that JZD was interred in a German POW camp for ~18mos.  
Due to the psycholgical effect on those inside, there is an interesting 
event involving a dark bread loaf at a dinner. Some experiences remain in 
the subconscious.      Another interesting story of rolling the new Trans 
Am, with the immediate dismissal of two fellows responsible for some design 
work. (ooops!!)  I may try to retrieve more stories when we meet further.  
Fascinating.      Drive Stainless   Robert  VIN 6924







_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:33:59 -0800
From: "DMCboi1der" <dmcboy1der_at_dml_hotpop.com>
Subject: Re: New poster, several questions

The DeLorean Owners Association has all of the approximately 70 back issues
of DeLorean World for sale, they feature many technical articles, tips, and
show the past events that the Association has sponsered. You can find them
on the DeLorean Store Website, at www.deloreanstore.com.

Trevor Johnson





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 18:15:04 -0600
From: Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: New poster, several questions

Aaron,

You have a GTO *and* a DeLorean?  I think you've got a JZD obsession.

Exhaust leaks are not uncommon and simple to fix; I believe the trick is safely removing
the bolts (they tend to be stuck).

Square tires are bad.  Replace them.  Do you even know where the spare and jack
are?  Does the spare have air?  And you know the rear wheel/tires won't fit back into
the trunk, right?

People didn't use alarms back in 1981, at least not much.  There were no "factory"
options for the alarm.  My car, which sat much like yours, had very bizarre alarm
behavior because of the electrical system.  I would highly recommend updating/servicing
the fuses and relays and cleaing all the ground points.

The latch for the rear louvers frequently breaks for becomes misaligned.  If your engine
cover latch is what is broken, then it certainly can be replaced.  The rear fascia
("bumper") removes fairly easily and I'm not even certain that it's necessary.

There are many more things I would be doing to a DeLorean that sat for that long.


Gus Schlachter
VIN #4695
Austin, TX




Aaron Townsley wrote:

> Hi All,
> I am a first time poster to the board, but I have been reading for the past
> few weeks.  I am sorry if tihs is going to the wrong place.  It's also a bit
> long, sorry for that too.
>
> History:
>     It seems like this group is a wealth of information and I am glad to
> have found it.  My father purchased a Delorean a little over a year ago.  I
> don't the vin off hand, but I am sure I can find out if anyone is
> interested.  I'm a bit more email savy so I'm writing on his behalf.  The
> car was bought, driven rarely then put in a barn with a cement floor, for
> apparently over a decade.
>
> Problems:
>
> Does anyone know a good Delorean person in the Southern Connecticut region?
>
> The car runs fairly well, but seems to have several exhaust leaks including
> the seals around the manifolds.  The tires are out-of-round from sitting, so
> it has a noticable virbration on the road.
>
> The alarm act quite funny, you only have a few moments after opening the
> door to put your key in the ignition, or it goes off.  Were alarms standard?
>
> Something in the manual shift seems to be off because it can be difficult to
> get the car into reverse, is there a trick to it or what cold be up?
>
> The locking mechansim for the that plastic-visor type hood thing (don't know
> the name) on the back of the car was broken.  I am guessing those are
> expensive, but can they be replaced?
>
> Finally, are there any magazines, parts catalogs, and general resources you
> recommend besides this list (it is a great resource though)?
>
> I know this is all over the place, but I thank you in advance for any
> information you can give me.  I'm in college and have a project car of my
> own (1967 GTO) so I want to give my dad the best help I can.  It can be an
> expensive passion but the more information the more info I get the more I
> can help avoid some of my more expensive mistakes : ).
>
> Thank you!
>
> Aaron T.
> Old Saybrook, CT
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 04:14:11 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: New poster, several questions

You asked a lot of questions so trying to take them 1 at a time:
Exhaust leaks not uncommon, replace seals and gaskets and missing or
broken bolts
Vibration could mean bad tires or just out of balance, try having them
done on a tire balancer that spins the tire
Alarms were not standard, a previous owner must have installed it,
best to just remove it
The shifter probably needs slight adjustment and lubrication
The lock for the rear sunshade can be repaired or replaced
This DML is the best source of currrent information, you could also
look in the archives or do a search on a specific topic
The best thing you could do would be to contact nearby owners. Go to
dmcnews.com and register on the DoD. Find nearby owners and talk to
them. You could also come to the Delorean MidAtlantic Spring Social
being held in Northern New Jersey April 26 and 27. There will be many
Deloreans there and Rob Grady of P. J. Grady will be there to answer
your questions and look over your car. [A shameless plug for our
event!]  If the car has been sitting for that long remove the fuel and
refill with fresh fuel and flush the brake system and coolant with
new. In fact drain and refill all of the fluids in the car before
using it. Use Castrol DOT 4 GTLMA brake fluid and a national brand
anti-freeze for the coolant 50/50 mixture.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Townsley" <townsa_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am a first time poster to the board, but I have been reading for
the past
> few weeks.  I am sorry if tihs is going to the wrong place.  It's
also a bit
> long, sorry for that too.
> 
> History:
>     It seems like this group is a wealth of information and I am glad to
> have found it.  My father purchased a Delorean a little over a year
ago.  I
> don't the vin off hand, but I am sure I can find out if anyone is
> interested.  I'm a bit more email savy so I'm writing on his behalf.
 The
> car was bought, driven rarely then put in a barn with a cement
floor, for
> apparently over a decade.
> 
> Problems:
> 
> Does anyone know a good Delorean person in the Southern Connecticut
region?
> 
> The car runs fairly well, but seems to have several exhaust leaks
including
> the seals around the manifolds.  The tires are out-of-round from
sitting, so
> it has a noticable virbration on the road.
> 
> The alarm act quite funny, you only have a few moments after opening the
> door to put your key in the ignition, or it goes off.  Were alarms
standard?
> 
> Something in the manual shift seems to be off because it can be
difficult to
> get the car into reverse, is there a trick to it or what cold be up?
> 
> The locking mechansim for the that plastic-visor type hood thing
(don't know
> the name) on the back of the car was broken.  I am guessing those are
> expensive, but can they be replaced?
> 
> Finally, are there any magazines, parts catalogs, and general
resources you
> recommend besides this list (it is a great resource though)?
> 
> I know this is all over the place, but I thank you in advance for any
> information you can give me.  I'm in college and have a project car
of my
> own (1967 GTO) so I want to give my dad the best help I can.  It can
be an
> expensive passion but the more information the more info I get the
more I
> can help avoid some of my more expensive mistakes : ).
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Aaron T.
> Old Saybrook, CT




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 23:43:12 -0000
From: "content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Uploaded photos

Album titled "#5939":

As requested, have uploaded photos of my melted headlight switch and
the rewired circuit. Apologies for quality -- isn't my camera. Am no
rocket scientist, but since RO and B are melted, assume internal bulb
shorted. DML'er chasing vacuum leak last month found fire damage in
his dash too -- something tells me I'm not the first. Have measured
rewired circuit: 320 milliamps through switch (you'll notice I'm now
using the hazard switch).

Have also uploaded photos of my R30TX (pertinent to recent alternate
engine thread). Is PRV with notable differences from DMC:
- no provision for Lambda
- aluminum fuel distributor and steel fuel lines
- totally different warm-up regulator
- no idle circuitry (throttle switch, spark advance solenoid, etc).
Previous owner did transfer idle speed motor (hard wired on), but has
since died
- PCV sucks through U pipes, not cold start tube

Car has DMC air filter housing (removed for photos). I jetisoned the
vapor canister (that's where canister for eventual cruise control will
hide). Apologies for filthy state of block -- have owned car almost a
year and yet to clean!
Bill Robertson
#5939






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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 00:13:45 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: DeLorean # 1908 - For Sale

FYI - DeLorean Motor Center in CA has #1908 for sale - $10,000. 83m 
mile every day driver. It looked good outside in picture. If it is a 
true CA car the frame is probably in good shape. Might be a good car 
for someone ready for a project. With a running car it is sure 
easier to identify the  real problems than one that is not running. 
www.deloreanmotorcenter.com, there are others for sale there too.

Harold McElraft - 3354




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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 01:41:48 -0000
From: "nbrommer2k <nickbrom_at_dml_aol.com>" <nickbrom_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Need Parade Photos!

Hello Group,

I will be appealing to my city's Parade Board to allow our post-
1976 "non-classic" automobiles into our local parade. Some stunning 
visual aids may help convince them to let the public see our amazing 
cars!

E-mail photos to nickbromm(at)aol.com

I will go before the board on Thursday evening, so send me the files 
as soon as possible.

Thanks in advance!

Nick




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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:16:29 EST
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: shift pattern was:New poster, several questions

In a message dated 2/4/2003 3:43:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, townsa_at_dml_rpi.edu 
writes:


> Something in the manual shift seems to be off because it can be difficult to
> get the car into reverse, is there a trick to it or what cold be up?
> 

Yes, there is a trick to it.  When shifting, depress the clutch pedal then 
move the shifter knob to the left as far as it will go. Continuing the 
leftward pressure, lift the knob straight UP. (Vertically, not forward.)  
Then move it to the left a bit more, then to the rear.  That's not quite the 
way the pattern looks on the knob, but that's how it works.  The other 
shifter oddity: Pushing the knob straight ahead from the neutral position 
doesn't put you in first, but in third.  You have to spring it left and 
forward to start in first.
Wayne A. Ernst
Bridgeton NJ
vin 11174


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 15:16:58 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Fuel Flow Measurements

I think (if it is technically possible) the best way to measure fuel 
flow would be to use 2 flow sensors. One would go on the line by the 
fuel filter and one would go on the return line to the fuel tank. The 
electronics would have to subtract one from the other with the 
difference being the fuel actually consumed. The other important 
signal you need is from the odometer to get actual mileage traveled so 
you can calculate instantanious and average miles per gallon. I guess 
you could put it next to the lambda counter with a short adapter cable 
between it and the speedometer. I would not mess with the mixture 
unit, it is very sensitive and you can easily upset the air-fuel 
ratio.
 If you went the mass air sensor route then consider upgrading the 
entire engine management system to a later Bosch set-up which actually 
uses a Mass Air Flow sensor. You would have to transplant the entire 
system from a donor car and create a new air-fuel map to get it to run 
on the PRV-6. The benefits would include increased mileage and 
performance along with better reliability. This would be a sequential 
or pulsed fuel injection system and is inherently more complicated but 
if you can do it, it would improve the engine system a lot and make it 
much more modern. There are also aftermarket sequential fuel injection 
systems that can be adapted and installed (if you have the time, 
patience and money).
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "drdhdmd <doctordhd_at_dml_a...>" 
<doctordhd_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> OK after thinking about it some more, I agree that using the 
> frequency 
> valve data, is not the way to go.   I imagine that it only trims the 
> fuel pressure and therefore the flow to maintain a closer match for 
> the air fuel ratio.   After all Bosch has a system just like ours 
> that 
> does not use a frequency valve at all.
> 
> That HAL401 looks interesting and they are sending me some samples. 
  
> The only thing I don't like is that you have to add the weight of a 
> magnet to the air flow plate.   This may throw off the mixture.   
For 
> a 
> given air flow, the plate will have moved down a bit more than it 
> used to and, if I understand the system properly, will cause a 
higher 
> pressure and thus more fuel to the injectors.   Ah, yes but the 
> Lambda 
> sensing this should let the frequency valve do a bit of 
> compensation.   Will it be enough?   Another thing is what happens 
> when 
> the magnet falls into the intake manifold.   (Hey I'm a firm 
believer 
> in Murphy's Law.)  Which bring me to the following question.   Does 
> anyone know what the 10 mm bolt that holds the air flow plate to 
> the 'arm" is screwed into?   Is there a nut on the underside or is 
> the 
> arm tapped.   I would hate to unscrew it and have the nut fall into 
> the intake.   Does anyone have a better diagram of the "mixture 
> control unit "  that would answer that question?   Maybe someone 
> already 
> has taken one of those things apart and knows.   I suppose if the 
arm 
> were tapped the you could carefully remove the bolt and washer and 
> maybe magnetize the screw.   I believe both the screw and the washer 
> are made of magnetizable metal, i.e., steel.
> 
> Another way to go might be a reflective optical sensor, I ordered 
one 
> from www.allelectronics.com, one of my favorite parts suppliers The 
> part is a Vactec 21L900.  All Electronics, has some really small and 
> very powerful neodymium magnets, too
> 
> In the interim, I am still waiting to receive the AUDI 5000 trip 
> computer I won on ebay.   As I mentioned before, I read info on the 
> net 
> that the AUDI Bosch system has a potentiometer attached to the air 
> flow plate pivot and uses that for the trip computer sensor.   Can 
we 
> do something like that?   I also tried to build a solid state 
> anemometer.   I found the response to an air flow was good but when 
> the air stopped it took too much time to settle down.   It uses a 
> plastic transistor as itts sensor.   I built it because I believe 
> that 
> some OEMs use an anemometer setup to measure air flow, i.e. the AIR 
> MASS SENSOR.   They usually use a "hot wire technique" which I could 
> not find a circuit for other than a block diagram.   The sensor of a 
> hot wire system is also usually very fragile, but I would imagine 
> much more responsive.   I did read about a circuit that used the 
> filament from a light bulb, with out the glass envelope, but I could 
> not find the circuit.   Hey is there a word limit on posts?   
> 
> Eagerly, awaiting your responses,
> 
> Dave & 6530




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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 20:06:23 -0700
From: Mark Noeltner <mark_at_dml_buffalochips.org>
Subject: Re: Re: Engine sources

True. But the Eagle Premier (a completely different car from the AMC Eagle)
and Dodge Monaco DID use a 3.0 liter variant of the PRV-6. 1988-1992 for
the Premier, and 1990-1992 for the Monaco.

Mark N
VIN 6820

At 03:13 AM 2/4/2003 -0000, you wrote:
>Just in case anyone suggests: AMC Eagles *NEVER* used PRV. Only 6
<snip>
>Bill Robertson
>#5939




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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:51:51 EST
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Re: Engine sources

In a message dated 02/04/2003 3:45:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net writes:

<< 
 Just in case anyone suggests: AMC Eagles *NEVER* used PRV. Only 6
 cylinder offered was 258 inch inline plant (all AMC design, derived
 from 232, ultimately the old 199). Same block (with fuel injected
 head) used by Chrysler in Jeeps well after 1985. One tough engine, but
 I don't think it'll fit in back of a little silver car...>?


There was the AMC Eagle, Marty McFly's girlfriends car in BTTF.

And the Eagle Marque, a division of Chrysler...which had PRV engines.

AMC had a joint venture with Renault in the early 1980s. After Chrysler 
purchased the remains of bankrupt AMC/Renault, Chrysler has the daunting task 
of selling off the leftover Renaults which consisted of 5 models. The R-5 
"LeCar" was discontinued, as was the Alliance. The Three remaining models 
were the Premier, Medallion and the Alpine.

Chrysler's 1988 marketing plan consisted of renaming the Renault sedans. The 
new name was the Eagle. Lee Iacocca hated the Renault cars. There were two 
models, the Premier a 4 door, PRV V-6 powered car that began life as the 
Renault 25. The Second model was the Medallion another 4 door sedan.

The Alpine was something special. Chrysler sales & marketing wanted to keep 
the Alpine as a separate brand from Eagle. Their idea was to import the 
Alpine A-610 supercar and sell the Alpine brand in Jeep dealerships.
 Chrysler had 27 American Alpine A-610 created, as they were on the cover of 
every American Car magazine in 1988. The cars main target was the Corvette. 
Lee Iacocca hated the Renault cars, and quickly killed the Renault Alpine 
A-610, single turbo PRV to make room for his Lamborghini purchase. Only 20 of 
these Alpines survive, with the majority at the Alpine museum in France. Only 
6 are of these American legal Alpines are in the states. 

Sincerely,
Michael Pack



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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 01:38:23 EST
From: DMC12Don_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Engine sources

In a message dated 2/4/2003 2:43:34 PM Central Standard Time, 
brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net writes:

> Just in case anyone suggests: AMC Eagles *NEVER* used PRV. Only 6
> cylinder offered was 258 inch inline plant (all AMC design, derived
> from 232, ultimately the old 199). Same block (with fuel injected
> head) used by Chrysler in Jeeps well after 1985. One tough engine, but
> I don't think it'll fit in back of a little silver car...
> 
> 

No, But the Eagle Premier IS a PRV And very close to the Delorean PRV.  The 
distributor is on the front of the engine and the displacement is 3.0L
     Don VIN 6860


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:07:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: Paul Salsbury <paul.salsbury_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: No Start!!

Here's my problem.!!

Went out to the garage last night to start the car for
the first time since the cold weather snap. First
click of the ignition key (acc) showed about 9 - 10
volts Not too bad. So I tried to fire her up She
struggled to turn ovprobablybaly one turn of the
engine, then I heard a rapid clicking sound, which to
me sounded like the starsolenoidnoid flicking back and
forward, then nothing.

Now all I get is the two clicks of the ignition relays
witching then silence.

I have fully charged the battery and still get the
same

There are no blown fuses and the starter is a year
old.

Suggestions Please

Thank
Paul
#6463

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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:21:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Ulysses Stockdale <smoolie671_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engine sources

Could someone out there please tell me if there is a
volvo 4 clyinder engine that will work in the Delorean
without much modification?
Ulysses Stockdale




--- Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk> wrote:
> Volvo 260 with the B28F engine, but you have to swap
> the sandwich plate over and all the belts and
> pulleys
> are Renault configuration, compressor is in a
> different place though. Renault30 will drop right in
> (after
> you've moved the AC compressor) but will only be 2.7
> litres
> 
> Martin
> #1458
> #4426
> DOC UK
> 
> john fredt wrote:
> 
> >
> > What volvo models have engines whose block will
> fit the deLoreans?With the least modifications
> please.
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating
> team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for
> sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 00:53:08 EST
From: AJL521_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: To Rebuild to Part Out - That is the question.

As a student of law this brings up some good questions.  At what point does a 
car cease to be a car?  When you swap a rusted frame for a new stainless 
steel frame its still the same car, you dont need a new vin.  

I would keep the dash and a few other parts along with the title so that I 
could say that the car was in the process of an extensive restoration.  It 
all comes down to how you define a car.  Without an exact legal wording 
stating the point that a car becomes a pile of parts, it would be very hard 
for a DA to convict someone who builds a DeLorean out of 99% new parts, and a 
handfull of parts from the original vin.  Although it may be hard for them to 
convict you on anything, that dosen't mean that the state coulden't give you 
a hard time.  

I'm sure that the laws differ by state, (trust me they always differ) 
therefore I would check what the the law is in my state before starting a 
project like this. Im sure that people building kit cars deal with this all 
the time, checking a kit car website could be worthwhile.

When it comes to laws, its always better to be safe then sorry,
Andrew
4194



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:03:38 -0000
From: "stitsien <stitsien_at_dml_lvcm.com>" <stitsien_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Can I get some advise please -->Re: Rear ended and insurance

Okay, after reading this I was very concerned about having AAA 
insurance so I went in person to the main office for some other 
business with them here in Las Vegas and setup a time to talk to an 
under writer while there and went back. Well with in three minutes it 
was clear she had no clue and said I should call this 800 number 
about my 50/100k full coverage with a copy of my appraisal stating 
the value of my car as 22k on file to see what would happen if I was 
ever in an accident here in Vegas that required delorean specific 
repairs that no one else could properly repair. I called them up and 
was told, "That's a gm car we would reimburse the repairs just like 
any other gm." Okay, I was getting mad I gave this guy the facts and 
that the "parts" are no longer made for the most part to which he 
apologized for his mistake about the car and said a manger would have 
to resolve this and put me on hold. After being on hold for thirty 
minutes he came back to say he couldn't find a supervisor and that I 
should call direct latter. Well I got in touch with someone about an 
hour latter to be told "wow, yah know what I don't know I'll get back 
to you what's your number?" That was three weeks ago. I decided to 
take this up a notch and due to another unrelated issue with AAA I 
asked who was the main underwriter for Vegas and what's there number. 
So after getting Gloria Hough's number (702)-270-4976 I called her 
unprepared for what was about to happen. I told her the story and the 
first thing she said was not I'm sorry for the inconvenienced ect but 
instead "we would not ship your car" I then asked if there's an 
insurance policy that had that she said "I would have to ask my 
agent" to which I told her she sent me on this wild goose chase
in the first place. I told her I would personally only trust a 
delorean shop with any body repairs to which she sardonically said "I 
have been in a body shop most of my life I know how to repair 
stainless steel." I then said "good so you know what I am talking 
about"…this was not a good idea. She than said you know we may have 
to cancel your policy they started changing the cars we insure in 
September.  I then said you still ensure Lotus, Ferrari and TVR from 
back then why wouldn't you insure my car? She then said they're still 
in business and parts are easer to find!?!?!?!?! What the world was 
with this 
woman she is a manger and she's giving me garbage..... And to 
irritate me further she goes on about owning some old ford sedan 
that's worth 50K and how she has a special form on insurance from a 
company that would not insure me but because she was in the 
industry and was able to pull some strings..... WTF. Well to make a 
long story short she said she would have to pass the buck and call 
someone in California and get back to me with any answers and on top 
of that if they were going to drop my policy. The call ended with her 
saying I would get a call by Friday when in dawned on me I was just 
threatened 
by this person because I wanted some answers. 
 
 
 
 What would you guys do in my shoes?
 
 Matthew Stits
 0789


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mquinto_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Hello List,
> I posted a couple weeks go about my DeLorean being rear ended. I 
want to
> give insurance info updates.
> I have been in constant contact by the other guys insurance, 
Superior
> Insurance group.
> I have AAA And when this first happened they were most helpful and 
gave me
> the agents name and # who would be handling my DeLorean.
> 
> Anyway, I tried calling that AAA agent and it took two days for her 
to
> return my phone call. Then when I needed her the most she was out 
for the
> holidays till January 2st.
> Now, I have spoke with Superiors adjuster and agents and they 
approved the
> $4508.11 for repairs by DeLorean Motor Center in Garden Grove. I 
received a
> check yesterday from Superior for the cost of repair and Rent a car.
> 
> Get this, I was in my bank depositing the checks and I get a call 
on my cell
> phone. It was some guy Bob from AAA.
> He asks me if me if my car is drivable. I said, yes. Well your 
going to have
> to take your car somewhere else to have the repairs done.
> I asked, why.
> He tells me that he looked at the damage of my DeLorean at Don's. 
He said, I
> don't have a problem with the price of the parts. but, there asking 
to much
> for shop rate $80.00 and hour. Your going to have to find another 
repair
> facility that will do it for $45.00 and hour.
> 
> I said, wait a minute, I have the check in hand from Superior. 
They're
> paying for everything. He says, oh well ok then.
> I was pissed form this conversation. I hadn't heard a word from AAA 
and Don
> has had my car for 11 days already.
> 
> Something for everyone to keep in mind. Even if your insurance 
company says
> they will insure your DeLorean doesn't mean they will pay the shop 
rate at
> any of your favorite DeLorean repair centers for damages.
> 
> I thinking of changing to Superior from AAA.
> Regards,
> Mike




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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:09:54 -0500
From: "mgutkowski_at_dml_cix.co.uk" <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Engine sources

Does anyone know if the Eagle PRV is an odd or even fire version? No 3
litre odd-fire PRV was ever produced in Europe. The odd firing PRVs all
have counterbalance weights on the crankshaft - do the 3 litre pistons from
the Eagle weigh the same as the 2.85? Did it use different weights or was
it even-fire?

Martin
#1458
#4426

Original Message:
-----------------
From:  DMC12Don_at_dml_aol.com

No, But the Eagle Premier IS a PRV And very close to the Delorean PRV.  The 
distributor is on the front of the engine and the displacement is 3.0L
     Don VIN 6860

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