From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1400
Date: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:29 AM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Engine possibilites
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

2. fuel system question
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>

3. Re: Remote Locks
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

4. Re: Looking at a car to buy...
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

5. A whole lot of reading going on
From: "treehouse2000us <treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com>" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. final drive oil???
From: "Adam <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>

7. Remote Locks and the DeLorean Vendors
From: lhemb_at_dml_aol.com

8. Re: final drive oil???
From: "stitsien <stitsien_at_dml_lvcm.com>" <stitsien_at_dml_lvcm.com>

9. Re: fuel system question
From: "checksix3 <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>" <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>

10. Re: Remote Locks and the DeLorean Vendors
From: "checksix3 <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>" <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>

11. DOD - Mixed Signals?
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

12. Re: fuel system question
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

13. Re: fuel system question
From: "content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

14. Re: Remote Locks
From: "checksix3 <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>" <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>

15. Re: Remote Locks and the DeLorean Vendors
From: "checksix3 <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>" <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>

16. Zillas Toughest Critic really gets it.........
From: ZillaDelorean_at_dml_aol.com

17. Zilla Schematic Raises $5,130 However......
From: ZillaDelorean_at_dml_aol.com

18. Re: Remote Locks
From: "therealdmcvegas <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

19. Re: final drive oil???
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

20. RE: fuel system question
From: "Scott Gardner" <gardners14_at_dml_cox.net>

21. Remote rebuttal
From: Watkins Family <watbmv_at_dml_megalink.net>

22. body panels
From: "dmcstyle1983 <sky250r_at_dml_aol.com>" <sky250r_at_dml_aol.com>

23. Re: final drive oil???
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

24. Re: fuel system question
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

25. Re: Head lamps
From: "Classified <vegascop1_at_dml_yahoo.com>" <vegascop1_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:08:47 -0600
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: Engine possibilites

Putting a heavy cast iron engine in the rear of a DeLorean can also be a 
safety hazard.  300 ft -lb of torque into 1st of 2nd gear can easily 
bring the front end off the ground and you can loose steering control .

The people with SB Chevys add 100+ lbs of lead to the front end to keep 
in on the ground.

With the engine and the lead weight your D is now 200-300 pounds heavier 
and slower.

An aluminum engine is essential.  BTW aluminum SB Chevy or Ford are 
easily available in the aftermarket if you want that big of an engine 
block.









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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:14:01 -0600
From: id <ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com>
Subject: fuel system question

i have a stupid question and i should know this but what does a Fuel Accumulator do
exactly?

mark




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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:17:25 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Remote Locks

You make very good points for doing things yourself while 
acknowledging the benefits of the Zilla products. Adding my 2 cents 
worth, when I see a car with wiring that the owner has modified I have 
to wonder what is going on (some owners are not good at it!). All to 
often there is NO documentation and if there is ANY it is incorrect, 
inaccurate, or out of date due to additional modifacations. I like to 
see "standard" updates and modifacations, it makes it easy to 
understand what is going on and troubleshoot. I won't for a minute 
tell you not to modify your car, it is just IMHO it could devalue your 
car if someday you want to sell it. At the very least try to keep good 
records as to what has been done for any future owners (or yourself if 
you ever have to work on it) like what was done, how it was done, what 
parts are added, where you got the parts, and when you did it. Like 
any science experiment notekeeping is as important as the experiment 
for repeatablity. Too many cars have had burglar alarms added with the 
wiring hacked up and no documentation, the only course of action is to 
try to dissect the alarm out and return the wiring to stock. This is 
one of the great benefits of "plug and play" it is easy to remove and 
replace if there is a problem! For any vender to offer upgrades the 
simpler it can be installed the less the chances of someone installing 
wrong and then blaming the vender for selling a defective device, it 
happens more often than you know. Plug and play is beyond some people, 
of course not any that are on THIS list. On the subject of plug and 
play not too long ago an owner had a problem with hard start. After 
all of the suggestions not helping he finally found the problem, 
someone had PLUGGED a fan fail relay into the hot start relay plug. So 
you can even screw up plug and play!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "checksix3 <jetjock11_at_dml_j...>" 
<jetjock11_at_dml_j...> wrote:
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Watkins Family <watbmv_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> > Lets also remember that there are alot of owners who don't have 
the 
> > technical skill to take an off the shelf remote kit and install 
> it.<<
> 
> You seem an example of that. (no slam intended) It takes very little 
> skill to interface a simple keyless entry unit to either the stock 
or 
> Zilla modules. A few simple wires and it's done. We agree on one 
> thing however: If you don't know what you're doing in more complex 
> issues you're at the mercy of those who do. Thats life and it's 
> exactly what motivates some of us to learn.
> 
> >>The stock DMC lock controller basically sucks.  It burned out my 
> solenoids and cost me quite a bit to replace, this is why I first 
> bought the Lockzilla Controller.<<
> 
> You profess technical ignorance yet pass judgement on a technical 
> issue. My stock module has cycled 872 times (ask me how I know that) 
> since rework without a single failure and if it ever does fail it 
> can't possibly burn out my solenoids. It cost me all of $3 to rewind 
> a bad solenoid and $7 to make sure it never happens again. There was 
> very little skill involved in either of those operations.
> 
> >Bottom line folks,  at this point in my over 10 years of DMC 
> ownership I would not trust my cars electronics to anyone other than 
> those that are making products for the DeLorean ONLY.<<
> 
> You make it sound as if only those who market things for the car are 
> rocket scientists. It's pretty simply stuff. Yes, the Zilla products 
> are well done and Bob makes a great contribution to the non 
technical 
> D community with his expertise. (His schematic was an admirable 
> endeavor for charity reasons, even if it's rife with errors that 
> should have been corrected.)
> 
> For those lacking technical skills his plug and play engineering is 
> the best way to go. But as Martin pointed out, those with technical 
> skills will naturaly cring at paying the price when they can do it 
> themselves. Do those of you who perform your own egine or mechanical 
> work feel any different about taking your car to a "professional"?
> Of course not, you do your own work because you know how and because 
> you obtain the satisfaction of knowing it's done right. I dare say 
> you might even feel it's done better than anyone else could do it... 
> understand now?
> 
> > While there are competing products out there made by different DMC 
> > Vendors, the Zilla line is my preference.  I find them to be well 
> > built, 100% backed by Bob and I know that my supporting this 
> product will help develop other items.  Why support PEP-BOYS? or 
> AUTOZONE?<
> 
> As you so aptly put it: Bottom line. I support myself, first and 
> foremost. I've no obligation to support any of the vendors or to 
> continue this car's exsistence is any way, it's just a car. You 
think 
> the vendors are in it *only* for love? I've far more expensive toys 
 
> that need my cash than the Devil Car and I didn't get them by giving 
> away my dollars when I could do the work myself. Again, do you take 
> your car to a mechanic when you could do it yourself?
> 
> I'd also point out many "wiring modifications" are simply done on 
the 
> Zilla side of the product rather than on the car. This is what 
allows 
> the plug and play feature in most cases. My opinion is that, the D's 
> wiring being one the most atrocious examples of automotive 
electrical 
> engineering I've ever seen, modifiying the car's wiring isn't such a 
> bad idea at times. I feel as long as it's well done and properly 
> documented it's not an issue to those who wish to do so. And as 
> Martin pointed out, "modifying" is a relative term. For example, my 
> all-in-one system's wiring is 95% done in the relay compartment and 
 
> changes the stock wiring very little.
> 
> I have complete confidence in the modifications I've done to the car 
> using the methods, materials, and engineering employed in my 
> profession and they're fully documented for any future owners.
> I see no reason to bash those of us that have the ability to do such 
> things. Likewise, Bob's products are an option for those who cannot 
> and he deserves equal credit for them. Some of us don't wish to be 
> constrained by one particular soultion and also don't wish to market 
> what we may see as a better way. (I appreciate the business hassles 
> that involves.) In addition, my stuff is long ago installed and 
> working, I've not had to wait for someone to bring a solution to 
> market nor will I be forced to piggyback something onto something 
> else made by a particular vendor. 
> 
> Then again, maybe I'm just too stubborn to know better. After  
> analyzing the failure mode of the stock Fan Fail Module and 
> modifiying it, I continue to use it with full confidence. Having 
said 
> that, I'll likely purchase a FanZilla for it's additinal benefits 
and 
> because it's value is worth the time it would take me to design and 
> fabricate a similar device. As I've said before, this car isn't 
> rocket science but there are times it's just easier to buy something 
> already elegantly designed than to screw around with doing it 
> yourself, even if one can. It's up to each of us to make that 
choice.




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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:24:29 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Looking at a car to buy...

Even if we could give you all the info you needed nothing beats 
having an experienced eye to go with you. Try to find a local owner or 
group, someone will help you. You can also call the nearest Delorean 
vender, if the car has any repair history with them they can help you, 
they usually need a vin # to look it up. With all of the work 
performed try to talk to the mechanic who did it. See if he knows what 
he is doing and how much experience he has on "D"'s if not a Delorean 
vender. It is great for all the work to be done but if not done 
correctly then there will be a lot to fix!!!!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, mpaine_at_dml_t... wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Here is the information on a car I am lookig to buy...
> 
> Current Owner info:
> 
> Purchased:  March 2000 with 19,777 original miles
> Current Mileage:  20,900
> 
> Last Inspected:  5-16-00
> 
> Some of the Maintenance Performed:
> 
> Purchase set of Delorean Manuals
> Replace regulator for both door panels
> Repair and clean off corrosion from tag light bulbs
> Drain gas tank and flush
> Drain and flush coolant 
> Replace reservoir with updated stainless steel
> Replace drive belts
> Lube throttle cable, gears, steering column
> Set engine specs
> Change engine oil and filter
> Change trans fluid
> Replace exhaust manifold & gaskets 
> New manifold heat stove
> Replace door seals on both doors
> Replace fuel tank sender
> Replace fuel & air filter
> Replace spark plugs  used Bosch - & wires
> Convert / recharge air condition system with R12
> New battery
> New heater / AC blower motor
> Replace fuel hoses
> Replaced brakes  front & rear
>      Including pads, caliper, hoses, master cylinder
> New tires  Goodyear  align & balanced
> Replaced door lift piston  both doors
> DMC embossed nose bra
> 
> What are some of the things I should check out when I go see the 
car? I mean I went and got a few checklists from the web but having 
never seen a good example or a bad example how do I know what I am 
looking at?
> 
> Can I get some help please?
> 
> Michael




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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:41:26 -0000
From: "treehouse2000us <treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com>" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: A whole lot of reading going on

Today I recieved 6 parcels of books coming from all over the country, 
several books about our beloved DeLoreans, totaling less than $25 
including shipping.  That means I will have very little spare time as 
I will be reading up a storm.  For the new people to the list, I 
encourage you if you have any intrest in getting a DeLorean (the 
car), first invest a few dollars to get these books.  Granted, most 
of them are quite negitive to the Dream, but interesting reading 
nonetheless.

-DeLorean (Autobiography)   
-On a clear day you can see General Motors   
-Hard Driving- My years with DeLorean   
-Dream Maker   
-Grand Delusions   
-The Maverick Mogul   
-Stainless Steel Illusion   
-DeLorean- Gold Portfolio   
-The DeLorean Tapes   
-Motor Makers in Ireland   
-Secrets of Automobile Photography  

I got my books from Amazon, but you could get one here and there from 
ebay or other sources.  To my knollege, the only book that isnt 
availible at Amazon.com is (The Maveick Mogul).  If you wait, you can 
get most of them pretty cheap.  Stainless Steel Illusion is going for 
$175 (US funds) right now (Feb 26,03).  Other books that mention John 
DeLorean can be found at http://www.entermyworld.com/books/index.html 
(hope you dont mind Tamir)

Well, till next time,

Tom Porter
  Vin: Summer 2003





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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:48:49 -0000
From: "Adam <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: final drive oil???

Hello, I have an automatic and I want to change the final drive 
fluid. The technical information manual that i have says to use GL-5, 
but it doesnt give a weight. What weight should I use for the final 
drive? Is 80-90 okay? Thanks.

Adam 16683




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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:55:03 EST
From: lhemb_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Remote Locks and the DeLorean Vendors

I must take issue with the gentleman who slammed the parts vendors and those 
amongst us who are mechanically challenged. I have owned Harvey (vin 5830) 
since 1989. I also own a 1931 Ford and a 1956 Thunderbird that I have had 
longer than Harvey. The marque specific parts vendors are an essential part 
of keeping these old cars on the road. Without these vendors, these cars 
would have to have been made into hot rods to keep them operational. I have 
always tried to give a portion of my business to each of these vendors; I 
want them there and in business in the future. I have followed the same rule 
with my DeLorean parts purchases. I want those guys out there to help me keep 
Harvey going. As to the issue of the remote unit for the Lockzilla, I am 
technically competent to purchase a generic unit and make it work with the 
Lockzilla. I prefer to purchase the Zilla unit and support the folks who are 
there for us.

The gentleman who is so down on the vendors also refers to his DeLorean as 
"Devil Car" and feels no responsibility to continue the car's existence in 
any way. I feel just the opposite about my collector cars. These cars 
(including Harvey) are bit of automotive history and need to be preserved in 
their original state or as close thereto as possible. I greatly enjoy having, 
driving and showing off these cars, but I also look upon owning these cars as 
more of a stewardship than ownership. It is my responsibility to maintain and 
preserve them during my tenure of ownership. Remember that in only three more 
years DeLoreans with become officially recognized antique automobiles by the 
Antique Automobile Club of America.

Brian McCabe & Harvey 5830


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:25:33 -0000
From: "stitsien <stitsien_at_dml_lvcm.com>" <stitsien_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: final drive oil???

80/90 is what I use but then again there will be peace in the middle 
east before everyone agrees on what fluids to use on there De Lorean. 
Just out of curiosity why are you changing it?
Matthew Stits
Vin 0789

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Adam <acprice1_at_dml_h...>" 
<acprice1_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> Hello, I have an automatic and I want to change the final drive 
> fluid. The technical information manual that i have says to use GL-
5, 
> but it doesnt give a weight. What weight should I use for the final 
> drive? Is 80-90 okay? Thanks.
> 
> Adam 16683




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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:42:24 -0000
From: "checksix3 <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>" <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: fuel system question


More than you probaly wanted to know but an accumulator as used in 
this sense is, by definition, a hydraulic term. Commonly used in 
hydraulic systems (your fuel system is a hydraulic system), 
accumulators are devices used to store (or accumulate) pressure when 
the main pressure pump is off. They do this in many ways but are 
usually a spring loaded volume that pressurizes the fluid in the 
system. The system requires chceck valving or other means to make it 
tight or the accumulator won't do it's job effectively

Your fuel injection system needs to remain pressurized after the fuel 
pump stops to avoid vapor formation and hard starting. The 
accumulator does this for you. I'll leave it to others to describe 
exactly how it does that but suffice to say it works in conjuction 
with other check valving and seals in your fuel system to keep the 
fuel pressure at a certain value. There is a spec for this "rest" 
pressure in your service manual, along with the minimum time the 
system should hold it for.

Btw, don't ever open any hydraulic accumulator up without restraining 
it, depending on the diameter of the diaphram or piston there is 
tremendous energy in the srping. The bigger the system pressure, the 
bigger the diameter of the unit or strength of the spring needs to 
be. (Force = Pressure x Area in fluid engineering.) I've seen a Bosch 
unit that, when cut open on a lathe, fired the internal parts and 
spring right through a wooden door. It has a serious spring in there, 
for those who've seen the inside of the Bosch unit you know what I 
mean. 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, id <ionicdesign_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> i have a stupid question and i should know this but what does a 
Fuel Accumulator do
> exactly?
> 
> mark




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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:08:27 -0000
From: "checksix3 <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>" <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: Remote Locks and the DeLorean Vendors



I am *not* down on the vendors and was *not* slamming those who are 
mechanicaly challenged, I was only pointing out that people come in 
many varieties of technical competence and it behooves them to know 
how their possessions work. Otherwise they are at the mercy of those 
who do. That was my point, period. It's your car, your money, etc, 
feel free to do anything you like with them.

The "Devil Car" reference is a joke that refers to my car's initial 
ability to do all sorts of very strange things when I first bought 
it. It's been retained as a "term of endearment", if you will. As 
David pointed out, these problems were the fault of 
those "mechanically challenged" owners who came before me who failed 
to do things properly. They are the ones who *should* have dealt with 
the vendors and pro mechanics.

I'm a professional pilot and the owner of a former military jet 
trainer. Reliability and failure are serious considerations in the 
airplane biz and I was only implying that there are times when you 
should be knowledgable about the machines you operate. If not for 
financial reasons then for safety reasons. If you choose to support 
the vendors fine. I do it also, when it's in *my* best interest to do 
so, not theirs. Otherwise I do what it takes to keep me solvent and 
living the way I want.

I stand by my position about the car. It's only a car and my 
responsibilty is to myself first and not any vendor. For most of us 
the Delorean phase will pass as we continue through life. Other 
things are much more important and I bought this car to enjoy it and 
then move on at some point in time. I do take very good care of my 
stuff, better than most people, because I spent 20 years as a machine 
design/maintenance engineer. 

The car will go to the next owner in as good or better shape than 
when I got it. (Certainly better than when I got it) I'll care for it 
and do what I think is best for it while I own it, my responsibility 
ends there. It's just another toy, to be cared for and then passed on 
for someone else to enjoy. 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, lhemb_at_dml_a... wrote:
> I must take issue with the gentleman who slammed the parts vendors 
and those  amongst us who are mechanically challenged. I have owned 
Harvey (vin 5830) since 1989. I also own a 1931 Ford and a 1956 
Thunderbird that I have had longer than Harvey.> 




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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:19:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: DOD - Mixed Signals?

Well now being an "owner" but still a "newbie" I was scanning the DeLorean Owners
Directory and got a bit confused. How can a "C" AND "E" be chosen at the same
time? Is someone only to be contacted in the emergency of a caffeine headache &
wanting to talk about it? Seriously though, am I missing something?

Sarcastically yours,
Shannon Y
VIN 16506 
DOD: "CTW" and some degree of "M"

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/



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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:30:32 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: fuel system question

In a message dated 2/26/03 1:18:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com writes:

<< i have a stupid question and i should know this but what does a Fuel 
Accumulator do
 exactly?
 
 mark
  >>
Mark, Like the battery smoothes out the ripples in the voltage, accumulators 
smoothes out the pumping edges from the rotary vain fuel pump and maintains 
the fuel from bleeding back to the tank from which it came. Then the primary 
pressure regulator in the fuel distributor stops the fuel from returning to 
the tank at a specific bar on one end of the fuel system the accumulator stop 
it on the beginning and the fuel is then suspended between the two. This is 
why if all is well you don't have to step on the peddle to start the car and 
the hot start problem goes away. There are also o ring kit for the primary 
pressure regulator for hot start.
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/fuel-injection.shtml



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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:54:47 -0000
From: "content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: fuel system question

Are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

Fuel accumulator pressurizes the system until RPM relay kicks in. Is
basically a can with spring loaded diaphragm. Diaphragm eventually
leaks (is a hose underneath looping back to fuel return line), leading
to no pressure until pump engaged. No problem then starting cold
because cold start valve compensates enough. Problem is starting hot
-- cold start valve inactive on a warm engine (thermistor switch). Can
force cold start valve on with warm-up regulator circuit (always 12v),
but car of course not driveable like that.

BTW: could JZD have picked a LESS accessible place to put the thing?

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, id <ionicdesign_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> i have a stupid question and i should know this but what does a Fuel
Accumulator do
> exactly?
> 
> mark




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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:30:36 -0000
From: "checksix3 <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>" <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: Remote Locks


David, thanx for understanding the original intent of my post
and not reponding in a emotional way. I agree with almost everything 
you say. Zilla products are the leading edge for those who must (or 
choose) to go that route and I never meant to slight them.

I don't feel what I do to my car will lower it's resale value except 
to a purist. In fact I feel the contrary. Anyone with D (or 
engineering) smarts will appreaciate the methods and materials I use. 
Those who don't will simply enjoy a much more reliable, safer, and 
less maintenance intensive car. I have received many offers for the 
car and recently had difficulty turning one down.

My work is fully documented and inserted into a seperate manual.
Everything done is at least as good as the original documentation and 
much better in many cases. (Some of it is Qcad and Solidworks 
generated.) Many parts (standard units currently available) were 
purchased in double quanities in case they should ever fail in the 
far future. 

These include the alarm and door launching components. They now 
reside as spares, along with a complete bill of materials and 
calibration or adjustment specs/instructions where required. I assure 
you, the next owner will have nothing to fear. The difficult parts 
(engineering and installaton) are done, only troublshooting may be 
required down the road. The wiring and much of my other work on car 
employs materials used in the aerospace industry. It's all very Hi-
Rel stuff, I have lots of it lying around because I maintain two 
aircraft. Personally, I feel using this quality only adds to the 
car's reliability and technical aura.

Even if the next owner is not technically inclined the documentaion 
is more than adequate for anyone with skills to easily fathom what 
was done. I designed and built semiconductor process equipment for 20 
years. That work involved lots of technical writing, maintenance, 
design and materials engineering along with fabrication. I'm damn 
anal to boot. (And a bit long winded at times. ;-)

I've also built high performace kit aircraft. Frankly, I don't much 
enjoy working on cars but I feel comfortable with most anything this 
one could throw at me. 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_w...>" 
<jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> You make very good points for doing things yourself while 
> acknowledging the benefits of the Zilla products.




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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:40:38 -0000
From: "checksix3 <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>" <jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: Remote Locks and the DeLorean Vendors



lol...my mistake. I should know better to debate an issue
with people who actually name inanimate objects. That puts 
us about as far apart as two folks can get. ;-)


> I have owned Harvey (vin 5830)<
> > Brian McCabe & Harvey 5830<<
> 





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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:58:31 EST
From: ZillaDelorean_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Zillas Toughest Critic really gets it.........

Dear unknown author    (checksix3   jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com )

It's clear from the last paragraph of your post you really do understand the 
value
of the Plug and Play concept. 
I'm glad.

(checksix3   jetjock11_at_dml_juno.com ) Said:

> Then again, maybe I'm just too stubborn to know better. After  
> analyzing the failure mode of the stock Fan Fail Module and 
> modifiying it, I continue to use it with full confidence. Having said 
> that, I'll likely purchase a FanZilla for it's additinal benefits and 
> because it's value is worth the time it would take me to design and 
> fabricate a similar device. As I've said before, this car isn't 
> rocket science but there are times it's just easier to buy something 
> already elegantly designed than to screw around with doing it 
> yourself, even if one can. It's up to each of us to make that choice.
> 
> 
> Bob Zilla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:58:43 EST
From: ZillaDelorean_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Zilla Schematic Raises $5,130 However......

[Moderator Note: I'd like to believe that I speak for everyone on the DML when I agree with something Bob says below.  The parties involved could do tremendous good, both for the DeLorean community and the Parkinson's Disease charity, by cooperating to discuss and correct any errors rather than arguing about them on the DML.  - Moderator Mike Substelny]


Dear  Unknown author  > checksix3   

This is not the 1st time I have seen you post this message and 
I am disturbed by it:
> "His schematic was an admirable endeavor for charity reasons, 
> even if it's rife with errors that should have been corrected."

Listen to yourself. 
You believe ( as do we ) that great things are being accomplished by the 
DeLorean owners acting as a whole. Raising $5,130 is no small undertaking.

If you feel that there are any significant updates needed to be added to the 
schematic how about sharing the wealth ?

While you suggest that it is "rife with errors" 
( now there's a word you don't see every day ), 
I've yet to be advised of any significant errors by the hundreds of owners 
who use it often, including PJ Grady.
It is however important to note that contributions have been made to further 
detail the schematic and they are always being included on an ongoing basis.

While nothing's perfect, it is intended to be a product and cause worthy of 
your support. We invite you to roll up your sleeves and join the effort.
We have among our ownership, Owners who have been touched by Parkinsons 
Disease. It's not just a Celebrity Disease. It's not a pretty picture. I'm 
sure these owners would like you to be a part of the solution.......

This is not a contest.
It is not intended to compete against any other version of the schematic to 
determine who's is best. It is an offering to all owners for a single cause.
It is however, readily available, complete and as detailed as possible. 

We do it for FREE. We also give away a VERY comprehensive Emergency Glove Box 
 Breakdown Manual. It took a very long time to create. It's in it's 3rd 
revision since 1989. That's a pretty GREAT deal for a minimum donation of a 
mere $25. It can save your butt if you breakdown far away from home. 
Hummm, think that's possible ?

Zilla doesn't see a dime of this.
To be completely accurate, it costs us a great deal of time to administrate 
this ongoing project. Uploading the files takes time, running charge cards 
takes time and we eat the card company's fees. What's more, anyone who went 
to the Memphis event knows Zilla and PJ Grady Donated a truckload of tool 
cases to raise money. We don't get tools for free. 
John Hervey Donated one of his Signature High Power Alternators to the 
Auction 
( thank you John ). He doesn't get them for FREE.

You are invited to submit your input off line if you have something to 
contribute to this ongoing project.

NOTE TO ALL
If you haven't gotten your Schematic and Manual do it today.

Bob Zilla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 01:18:37 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Remote Locks

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_w...>" <
jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
<SNIP>
> Like any science experiment notekeeping is as important as the experiment 
> for repeatablity. Too many cars have had burglar alarms added with the 
> wiring hacked up and no documentation, the only course of action is to 
> try to dissect the alarm out and return the wiring to stock.
<SNIP>

Amen to that! My car came with an aftermarket alarm installed that never did 
work right. I have door launchers that will only randomly activate when you hit 
the remote, and overly sensative vibration sensor, and my favorite part: The 
dome lights flash when arming, and disarming the car, but the clearance 
lights are on a delay! Worst of all, the company who makes the system, VPA, 
was very rude on the phone when I called, and would not help me out by 
sending me neither schematics, nor a copy of their installation guide! 
Needless to say, I have since yanked the control module out of the car.

So yes, it does indeed help future owners if you happen to sell you car if you 
document, and record all modifications to the car that you have made. I keep 
a xeroxed copy of the wiring diagram, and always draw in and notate any 
changes that I have ever made, and re-hide the paper in my car. One day, I'll 
figure out just how that damn thing is wired up, so that I can rip it out, and 
install something better...

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:09:25 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: final drive oil???

In a message dated 2/26/03 3:21:06 PM Central Standard Time, 
acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com writes:


> Hello, I have an automatic and I want to change the final drive 
> fluid. The technical information manual that i have says to use GL-5, 
> but it doesnt give a weight. What weight should I use for the final 
> drive? Is 80-90 okay? Thanks.
> 
> Adam 16683

Adam,

80w90 is your common GL-5.
75w90 is typically a synthetic
75w140 is for limited slip applications.

80w90 is just fine!

Andy
Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:07:41 -0500
From: "Scott Gardner" <gardners14_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: RE: fuel system question

Mark,
	I'm sure others can describe it better, but here's my
explanation:
The fuel accumulator is a reservoir for pressurized fuel.  Since the
fuel pump is not operating 100% of the time, the accumulator acts to
provide a constant source of pressurized fuel to the fuel injection
system.  
	When the system working properly, the fuel pump pushes gas into
the accumulator, where it is stored under pressure.  The outlet of the
accumulator feeds the fuel injection system.  When the fuel pump is not
pumping fuel, the engine is fed from the pressurized accumulator.  By
the time the supply of fuel in the accumulator is exhausted, the fuel
pump should have cycled on again, filling the accumulator again.
	If the accumulator cannot maintain pressure, you run the risk of
the fuel lines to the engine depressurizing when the fuel pump cycles
off, which could lead to a hard-starting condition, especially if the
engine is hot. (I don't know if "vapor lock" is an appropriate term for
a fuel-injected car, but the principle is similar, regardless.)

Hope this helps,
Scott Gardner


-----Original Message-----
From: id [mailto:ionicdesign_at_dml_execpc.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 10:14 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] fuel system question
>
> i have a stupid question and i should know this but what does a Fuel
> Accumulator do exactly?
>
> mark



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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:18:31 -0500
From: Watkins Family <watbmv_at_dml_megalink.net>
Subject: Remote rebuttal

I'm sorry if you feel that I am "bashing" those of you who are 
technically skilled and have the ability to upgrade your car by 
yourself.  If this is how you read my post please accept my apology.   
Please understand that I am simply trying to point out that the majority 
of owners do not have the skills required.   My opinion that the stock 
lock module sucks is a correct one, for me.  The original was a flawed 
design (per Bob and others)  It toasted my solenoids so, yes I think I 
can safely say that it sucks....no technical knowledge needed to figure 
this out.  

Again,  I am happy that you could fix yours for a few dollars.  That is 
great and I applaud your achivement (seriously!).  I on the other hand 
would NEVER take on someting like that.  As for supporting DMC vendors, 
well......that's an issue that will never be resolved and can only turn 
into a flame war which I would rather not participate in.   You seem to 
be quite adept as a do-it-yourselfer.....again, that is awesome.  I, on 
the other hand, would rather spend the money on things for my car that I 
don't want to have to think about or take the time to figure out.  I've 
got the money so I don't really care.   Zilla, to me is well worth the 
time, effort and energy it saves me.    Best of all, I like opening up a 
box and finding instructions for a DeLorean only, not a generic set of 
instructions.  For you, the adventure and sense of satisfaction of doing 
it yourself is rewarding and I would never fault anyone for that.  If I 
could do what you do....I'd do it in a second!   I do alot of work 
myself on my car but I know my limitations and knowledge when it comes 
to electrical stuff.  

regards

Tom
#005732




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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 03:51:57 -0000
From: "dmcstyle1983 <sky250r_at_dml_aol.com>" <sky250r_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: body panels


Do you guys know of any existing copywrites or restrictions for 
reproducing Delorian body panels? I am going to try to make a copy of 
the front fenders out of a grade thicker stainless for my 83' and if 
it turns out good, maybe I can reproduce some more pieces, but I 
don't want to break any laws.
Any info you have on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Ryan 




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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 04:26:25 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: final drive oil???

80-90 weight gear oil is fine. Refer to Workshop Manual G:05:01 for
the full procedure. You do have a Workshop Manual don't you? If not
make put it on your next list of things to order from a Delorean
vender. The 2 things to this are having the "special" wrench and
draining the fluid after driving the car so the old fluid can drain
out easier. Another thing you could do is replace the stock drain plug
with a magnetic one if it hasn't been changed yet.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Adam <acprice1_at_dml_h...>" <acprice1_at_dml_h...>
wrote:
> Hello, I have an automatic and I want to change the final drive 
> fluid. The technical information manual that i have says to use GL-5, 
> but it doesnt give a weight. What weight should I use for the final 
> drive? Is 80-90 okay? Thanks.
> 
> Adam 16683




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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 04:33:56 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: fuel system question

In technical lingo it holds the system rest pressure up so under a hot
start condition the engine can start without the control presure
regulater. It also takes out any pulsations that might be caused by
the fuel pump. What it really means to you is if you are having
trouble restarting the car right after you shut it off or very soon
after (before it has a chance to cool down) then you might need to
replace it. For a more through explanation refer to Workshop Manual
D:01:01 to D:02:01
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, id <ionicdesign_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> i have a stupid question and i should know this but what does a Fuel
Accumulator do
> exactly?
> 
> mark




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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 04:47:01 -0000
From: "Classified <vegascop1_at_dml_yahoo.com>" <vegascop1_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Head lamps

Ryan,

you said to contact DART, but you didnt provide web address or 
phone...do you know any of them?

thnx for any info you can provide,

Ski 4649




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