From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1440
Date: Friday, March 28, 2003 8:02 AM

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There are 13 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Wacky Interior Lights
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

2. Re: Wacky Interior Lights
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

3. Re: Re: Power dip and fan fail problems
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com

4. Delorean Midatlantic Spring Social
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

5. Planning get togethers..advise please
From: "William Bowie" <wbowie_at_dml_sc.rr.com>

6. "When all else fails, get a bigger hammer?"
From: doctordhd_at_dml_aol.com

7. Re: "When all else fails, get a bigger hammer?"
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

8. Re: "When all else fails, get a bigger hammer?"
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

9. Re: "When all else fails, get a bigger hammer?"
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

10. RE: Re: Power dip and fan fail problems
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

11. Re: Power dip and fan fail problems
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

12. Spring Social Printable Flyer
From: "silverdelorean2002" <silvercrw646_at_dml_cs.com>

13. Relay holders (Re: Power dip and fan fail problems)
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 04:31:29 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Wacky Interior Lights

There was origionally a rubber tip on the door switch plungers. On
many cars they are missing or worn out. You can get by with a short
piece of vacuum hose sliped over the plunger. If by holding down both
switches (with the doors open) you can't turn the lights out, either
the lights are in the "on" position or you have a wiring problem. Also
make sure the wires going to the 2 switches on the driver's door
aren't crossed, ie the 2 wires for the buzzer go to 1 switch and the 2
wires for the lights go to the other, it doesn't matter which goes
where as long as they aren't crossed. The buzzer could be staying on
because of a sticking switch inside the ignition switch.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/26/03 5:06:17 PM Central Standard Time, 
> louie_at_dml_d... writes:
> 
> 
> > My interior lights seem to have taken on a mind of their own. They
now stay 
> > on all the time, along with the buzzer. I tried unplugging the door 
> > sensors... but that did nothing. They lights started acting funny
a few 
> > months back. I could go around a really hard corner, and they'd
turn on for 
> > about 10 seconds. But as of yesterday... they stay on all the time
when the 
> > car's running. I can turn the car off and shut the doors and the
lights 
> > stay off though. Anybody have any clue as to what's up?
> > 
> > Louie Golden
> > VIN 10115 Sanford/Charlotte NC
> 
> Louie,
> 
> Sounds like a problem with the door light switches.  i would start by 
> checking all the wiring against the electrical diagram and make sure 
> everything is wired correctly.  Also, make sure that the tabs on the 
> electrical connectors aren't hitting any other wires to make them cross.
> 
> I bet if you get all your door switch wiring straight the problem
will go 
> away.
> Andy
> Soma576_at_dml_a...
> 1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
> Fargo, ND 58102
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 05:46:35 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Wacky Interior Lights

Door switches do not control juice to lights -- control ground FROM
lights (remember: car not designed/manufactured in USA...) If circuit
is grounded somewhere else is same effect as opening door switches
(lights are live all the time).

Seem to remember same problem on list last summer. Was a stress
fracture in big door wiring harness similar to what happens to Craig
radio display.

To save battery, pull fuse #10. 

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Louie G <louie_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> My interior lights seem to have taken on a mind of their own. They
now stay on all the time, along with the buzzer. I tried unplugging
the door sensors... but that did nothing. They lights started acting
funny a few months back. I could go around a really hard corner, and
they'd turn on for about 10 seconds. But as of yesterday... they stay
on all the time when the car's running. I can turn the car off and
shut the doors and the lights stay off though. Anybody have any clue
as to what's up?
> 
> Louie Golden
> VIN 10115 Sanford/Charlotte NC
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Don't be left out! Register today for the 2003 DMC Open House Event
at http://www.delorean.com/2003event.asp
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you_at_dml_y... w/No
Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag




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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 00:59:05 EST
From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Power dip and fan fail problems

Group, 

The fuse extension that Travis made will fix the melted fuse because the wire 
acts as a heat sink if you don't cut it short. But the question is, what 
caused it. Which fuse was it? What ever the problem is will continue and may 
cause another problem down the line.

As far as the cooling fans.Yes they draw a lot of current when they come on 
for a millisecond or two. But the fans running longer or not cycling or wired 
to run all the time never gives the wire any cooling time and hence the wire 
melts or gets so hot it's on the border of melting. I have had two calls in 
the last two weeks on factory original fan fail jumpers melting and causing a 
fire in the relay compartment. If you want to avoid this problem I would 
advise you re evaluate the factory jumper and consider another product. 

I am installing a Thermal circuit breaker on the Fan Fix for the melt down 
problem. 
If your interested in this feature please email. John_at_dml_specialtauto.com.

John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com
  



<< 
 I recently had the lovely melted fuse box but I repaired it with the pig
 tail. At the same time the relay/fan fix had melted, but it is now repaired.
 
 My guess is the fans cycling. That seems to make the most sense. I will
 listen for the fans during long distance driving at night and see if that is
 indeed the cause.
 
  >>



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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 04:39:29 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Delorean Midatlantic Spring Social

Just a reminder for anyone coming from out of the area that you need
to reserve a room by April 5 to be sure of getting a room and the
group rate. I can now say that our Guest Speaker is Fred Dellis of
Legend Industries. Legend was the company that did the development
work on the Delorean for the turbo installation. The event is turning
into a 3 day event as there are some guests coming from Florida that
will be arriving in the area Friday evening. Anyone close in may want
to join us then but I haven't made any plans for that evening yet. I
look foward to seeing many of you that weekend and I hope we have good
weather!! For all the info you need about the event go to
www.deloreanmidatlantic.com We have recently put up driving directions.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 




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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 00:15:07 -0500
From: "William Bowie" <wbowie_at_dml_sc.rr.com>
Subject: Planning get togethers..advise please

Hey Gang!

               After having a blast at Daves parents house for the South
Carolina Door Adjustment Festival 2003 ,  I'm thinking of planning a general
'fix/adjust it' gathering here at my place, eventhough I don't own a D yet.
I think we could have a great time!  Besides working on the cars I was
thinking of doing a cook out, plus my Apt complex has pool.  One of the
reasons I'd like to do this is to meet more owners and learn more about care
and maintenance by both observation and hands on helping.  There should be
enough room in the parking lot for 4-8 Ds or more.

I'll have plenty of time this summer to plan an event, work is cutting our
work week by one day starting the week school lets out down here.  For those
that don;t know, I work for the local school district IT department. So all
summer long I will have 3 day weekends. I'm really hating it.....NOT! Four
ten hour days will enable me to keep a regular paycheck.  The bean counters
figure closing all facilities one day a week will save our district over
150K per month.  This allows me to stay employed so I'm not complaining. LOL

People interested can e-mail me directly so I can get an idea of how many
would like to do this.  I live in Columbia SC.  From what I can tell that
puts me in the middle of a few Ds within only a couple hours drive of here.
:-)  I have no date in mind yet and I'm sure everyone has plans for July
fourth so that weekend is out. Suggestions welcome...esp from those who have
hosted before.


Sincerely,
William Bowie(future owner in training)
'Live the dream.'





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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 11:31:26 EST
From: doctordhd_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: "When all else fails, get a bigger hammer?"

I'm not a guy who likes to use a hammer to fix things but after the advice on 
the list I tried it.  One of my cooling fans wasn't running so I jacked up 
the "D" and slid under it to take a look.  I unplugged the fan motor wires 
and connected them to a 12 volt power supply.  Then I tapped the back of the 
motor housing ever so gently.  The fan turned a couple of degrees.  I thought 
it was mearly from the vibration of the tapping but each time I tapped it 
turned more and more until it ran by itself!  Now it seems to work properly 
when reconected.  I'm not sure how long this "fix" will work but I can't seem 
to figure out how to remove the motor without taking the entire front of the 
car off.  Any ideas and comment would be appreciated.

Dave
6530


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:57:51 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: "When all else fails, get a bigger hammer?"

When the brushes get very worn they don't have the spring pressure as 
when they were longer and there is a lot of dirt they tend to stick. 
By inducing vibrations (smacking it with a hammer) the brushes moved a 
little making contact again with the commutator. This is a very 
temporory fix. Remember that both fans have the same amount of run 
time so they are both due to die soon. The motors can be "fixed". It 
requires removing them, disassembling them, replacing the brushes, 
cleaning up and "trueing" the commutator, cleaning the insides, and 
lubing the bearings. If the bearings are not too loose they don't have 
to be replaced. 
 The radiator has to be removed so that you can get the shroud and 
fans out. First unfasten the fan shroud and push it back and up out of 
the way. Remove the radiator and then you have enough room to remove 
the shroud with the fans attached. It is a real juggleing act, 
especially when you try to put it back together. Some strap-ties or 
pieces of wire can help hold things up out of the way. There are also 
a lot of "hidden" nuts so don't force anything unless you are sure you 
got all of the fasteners up across the top.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, doctordhd_at_dml_a... wrote:
> I'm not a guy who likes to use a hammer to fix things but after the 
advice on 
> the list I tried it.  One of my cooling fans wasn't running so I 
jacked up 
> the "D" and slid under it to take a look.  I unplugged the fan motor 
wires 
> and connected them to a 12 volt power supply.  Then I tapped the 
back of the 
> motor housing ever so gently.  The fan turned a couple of degrees.  
I thought 
> it was mearly from the vibration of the tapping but each time I 
tapped it 
> turned more and more until it ran by itself!  Now it seems to work 
properly 
> when reconected.  I'm not sure how long this "fix" will work but I 
can't seem 
> to figure out how to remove the motor without taking the entire 
front of the 
> car off.  Any ideas and comment would be appreciated.
> 
> Dave
> 6530
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:08:25 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: "When all else fails, get a bigger hammer?"

In a message dated 3/27/03 11:35:43 AM Central Standard Time, 
doctordhd_at_dml_aol.com writes:


> I'm not a guy who likes to use a hammer to fix things but after the advice 
> on 
> the list I tried it.  One of my cooling fans wasn't running so I jacked up 
> the "D" and slid under it to take a look.  I unplugged the fan motor wires 
> and connected them to a 12 volt power supply.  Then I tapped the back of 
> the 
> motor housing ever so gently.  The fan turned a couple of degrees.  I 
> thought 
> it was mearly from the vibration of the tapping but each time I tapped it 
> turned more and more until it ran by itself!  Now it seems to work properly 
> 
> when reconected.  I'm not sure how long this "fix" will work but I can't 
> seem 
> to figure out how to remove the motor without taking the entire front of 
> the 
> car off.  Any ideas and comment would be appreciated.
> 
> Dave
> 6530

Dave,

the fans do not come out easily.
check the shop manual in the section that deals with removing the radiator.  
you can extrapolate how to remove the fans from those instructions.  I did 
this last spring, and from what i can remember, you must first remove the 
plastic shroud which goes all around the fans, radiator, and condensor.  
there are screws with washers along the sides of this ducting.  after you 
have removed that, you will need to loosen the radiator mounts and a few more 
nuts, then you can the fans and the fan shroud as one complete unit.  i'm a 
little sketchy, so check the shop manual for details.  this won't be easy 
with the car on the ground.  

Andy
Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 02:03:54 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: "When all else fails, get a bigger hammer?"

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, doctordhd_at_dml_a... wrote:
> I'm not a guy who likes to use a hammer to fix things but after the advice on 
> the list I tried it.  One of my cooling fans wasn't running so I jacked up 
> the "D" and slid under it to take a look.  I unplugged the fan motor wires 
> and connected them to a 12 volt power supply.  Then I tapped the back of 
the 
> motor housing ever so gently.  The fan turned a couple of degrees.  I 
thought 
> it was mearly from the vibration of the tapping but each time I tapped it 
> turned more and more until it ran by itself!  Now it seems to work properly 
> when reconected.  I'm not sure how long this "fix" will work but I can't seem 
> to figure out how to remove the motor without taking the entire front of the 
> car off.  Any ideas and comment would be appreciated.
> 
> Dave
> 6530


Same thing with my car. In fact, I'm the one who first posted that tapping the 
cooling fans with a hammer got mine back running. Hopefully, the fan will not 
have any more problems, but I would reccomend keeping an eye on things for 
a while. If the fan fails again, then it's a sure sign that you'll need to replace 
the motor(s). I was able to prolong the life of the motor on my car by using 
some electrical motor cleaner. But as others have posted, this can also wash 
out lubrication grease, along with the grime (dirty brushes causing a poor 
connection is what was causing my problem).

I've been told that replacement of the fans isn't the easiest task, but isn't 
impossible. You'll need to drive the car up onto some ramps to remove the 
sway bar, and then the upper radiator braces, The fan cowl should then 
unbolt, and easily drop, so that you can remove the fans.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:38:41 -0500
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Power dip and fan fail problems

Maybe I can shed more light on this...

I recently had to replace my radiator from an overheat problem. I caught it
before any other damage, but the crappy fused cap on the factory radiator
(the plastic piece) split and could not be repaired. 

During that time, unbeknownst to me at the time, the overheat also caused
the fans to run non stop while the car was idling.  Thus melting the fuse
(the engine control fuse, second from the left at the top of the box) and
also melted the fan fix jumper in the relay compartment. The fuse was
replaced with the pig tail which extends about 3-4 inches away from the
original fuse box.

My next step is Fanzilla. However, I have a question about it. I assume it
plugs in the original fan relay slot. If this is indeed the case, my
partially melted relay holder will prevent proper installation. Now that I
think about it, I suppose I could get a new holder??

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dherv10_at_dml_aol.com [mailto:dherv10_at_dml_aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 12:59 AM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Power dip and fan fail problems
> 
> Group,
> 
> The fuse extension that Travis made will fix the melted fuse because the
> wire
> acts as a heat sink if you don't cut it short. But the question is, what
> caused it. Which fuse was it? What ever the problem is will continue and
> may
> cause another problem down the line.
> 
> As far as the cooling fans.Yes they draw a lot of current when they come
> on
> for a millisecond or two. But the fans running longer or not cycling or
> wired
> to run all the time never gives the wire any cooling time and hence the
> wire
> melts or gets so hot it's on the border of melting. I have had two calls
> in
> the last two weeks on factory original fan fail jumpers melting and
> causing a
> fire in the relay compartment. If you want to avoid this problem I would
> advise you re evaluate the factory jumper and consider another product.
> 
> I am installing a Thermal circuit breaker on the Fan Fix for the melt down
> problem.
> If your interested in this feature please email. John_at_dml_specialtauto.com.
> 
> John Hervey
> www.specialtauto.com
> 
> 




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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 02:25:21 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Power dip and fan fail problems

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, dherv10_at_dml_a... wrote:
<SNIP>
> As far as the cooling fans.Yes they draw a lot of current when they come on 
> for a millisecond or two. But the fans running longer or not cycling or wired 
> to run all the time never gives the wire any cooling time and hence the wire 
> melts or gets so hot it's on the border of melting. I have had two calls in 
> the last two weeks on factory original fan fail jumpers melting and causing a 
> fire in the relay compartment. If you want to avoid this problem I would 
> advise you re evaluate the factory jumper and consider another product. 
> 
> I am installing a Thermal circuit breaker on the Fan Fix for the melt down 
> problem. 
> If your interested in this feature please email. John_at_dml_s...
> 
> John Hervey
> www.specialtauto.com

My factory jumper had some discoloration when I first got my car. A few 
months ago, I noticed that my engine wasn't cooling fast enough, and 
inspected the jumper wire. Lo and behiold, the fuse holders were melted. 
They were the only two fuses I had never replaced. I will eventually install one 
of the aftermarket replacements, but in the meantime, I punched together 
another jumper from parts I got _at_dml_ Wal Mart. Can't tell the difference between 
the two. After installing, the wires did indeed stay noticeably cooler. I've had to 
bypass a few wires in my car's electrical system on a couple of occasions, so 
I'm worndering if this isn't perhaps just a case of  years of neglect coupled with 
old age. It could be coincidence, or imagination, but even after replacing my 
engine ECU, I had a bit smoother idle and pick-up from the engine.

In the meantime, if running the cooling fans constantly may cause a problem 
with the wiring, then perhaps I'll just go ahead and bypass the main harness 
all together, and run dedicated, lower gague wires to the fans directly. That 
way I could totally isolate the cooling fan power circuit from the car entirely. I'd 
rather do this, than keep straining the car with such frequent power 
fluctuations.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:31:21 -0000
From: "silverdelorean2002" <silvercrw646_at_dml_cs.com>
Subject: Spring Social Printable Flyer

Here is a Printable Flyer ad created for the Speing Social. Please 
take a look at this FLyer to readmore about the weekends events.

http://www.nagis.net/d2.htm




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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 04:01:53 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Relay holders (Re: Power dip and fan fail problems)

John Hervey sells them. Use an unbent paper clip to unlatch quick
connects in old holder. Whole row of holders should be held to metal
cage by two lag screws (8 mm) behind Relays 20 and 24 or so.

Check for wiring damage through entire circuit. After my headlight
switch shorted, found insulation melted under console and in relay
compartment.

Bill Robertson (arm chair mechanic 4 more weeks)
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> Maybe I can shed more light on this...
> 
> I recently had to replace my radiator from an overheat problem. I
caught it
> before any other damage, but the crappy fused cap on the factory
radiator
> (the plastic piece) split and could not be repaired. 
> 
> During that time, unbeknownst to me at the time, the overheat also
caused
> the fans to run non stop while the car was idling.  Thus melting the
fuse
> (the engine control fuse, second from the left at the top of the
box) and
> also melted the fan fix jumper in the relay compartment. The fuse was
> replaced with the pig tail which extends about 3-4 inches away from the
> original fuse box.
> 
> My next step is Fanzilla. However, I have a question about it. I
assume it
> plugs in the original fan relay slot. If this is indeed the case, my
> partially melted relay holder will prevent proper installation. Now
that I
> think about it, I suppose I could get a new holder??
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dherv10_at_dml_a... [mailto:dherv10_at_dml_a...]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 12:59 AM
> > To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Power dip and fan fail problems
> > 
> > Group,
> > 
> > The fuse extension that Travis made will fix the melted fuse
because the
> > wire
> > acts as a heat sink if you don't cut it short. But the question
is, what
> > caused it. Which fuse was it? What ever the problem is will
continue and
> > may
> > cause another problem down the line.
> > 
> > As far as the cooling fans.Yes they draw a lot of current when
they come
> > on
> > for a millisecond or two. But the fans running longer or not
cycling or
> > wired
> > to run all the time never gives the wire any cooling time and
hence the
> > wire
> > melts or gets so hot it's on the border of melting. I have had two
calls
> > in
> > the last two weeks on factory original fan fail jumpers melting and
> > causing a
> > fire in the relay compartment. If you want to avoid this problem I
would
> > advise you re evaluate the factory jumper and consider another
product.
> > 
> > I am installing a Thermal circuit breaker on the Fan Fix for the
melt down
> > problem.
> > If your interested in this feature please email. John_at_dml_s...
> > 
> > John Hervey
> > www.specialtauto.com
> > 
> >




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