From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1450
Date: Saturday, April 05, 2003 5:50 AM

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There are 10 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Fire in the engineroom or- 20 knots and no smoke
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

2. Delorean for Sale UK Ebay
From: <condoluci_at_dml_tiscali.co.uk>

3. Re: Original Collins Prototype Found
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

4. Re: Delorean
From: beatlesra1_at_dml_aol.com

5. DeLorean Car Show Magazine
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

6. DeLorean/LMC Snow Groomers
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>

7. Re: Fire in the engineroom or- 20 knots and no smoke
From: "fivetwofive" <CBL302_at_dml_msn.com>

8. Re: Delorean
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

9. Re: Door Lock Problem
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

10. Re: Fire in the engineroom or- 20 knots and no smoke
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 18:00:03 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: Re: Fire in the engineroom or- 20 knots and no smoke

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Richard Acuti <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> During my DeLorean educational process I have noticed an alarming 
number of pictures of torched D's on various websites on the Internet.
> 
> I'm so creeped out by this, that I've mounted an extinguisher 
behind my seat. What was the most common cause of engine fires? Of 
Delorean fires in general?
<SNIP>

Quick Answer: Problem is with the repairs methods used, and not the 
fuel system itself.

Explanation: The high pressure fuel lines connect to other components 
with banjo fittings, and hollow bolts. Then to seal these 
connections, they utilize copper washers. When the hollow bolts are 
tighened down, the will squeeze the copper washers against both the 
banjo fittings, and whatever component they are connected to. This 
allows the washers to mold themselves around the components, and 
create a flush seal as they are crushed. Just like rubber, EXCEPT for 
one thing. The washers will NOT spring back into place. Therefore, 
they must be replaced when reassembling the system. If they are 
reused, they will not be able to seal properly, and will leak gas out 
to cause a fire.

So, whenever you work on the fuel system, and it involves anything 
where you have to remove a bolt, then you'll need to replace the 
copper washers with brand new ones. Whats interesting about this is 
that Pep-Boys, nor any other auto supply store that I've been to 
carry the washers. Niether do BOSCH suppliers, however, they do sell 
aluminium washers that fit and function just fine. I've used them on 
my car with no problem at all. What the difference is (besides the 
price to make them, I'm sure), I've no idea.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"




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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:06:21 +0100
From: <condoluci_at_dml_tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Delorean for Sale UK Ebay

Hi,

Just thought I'd let you all know that my Delorean is up for Sale at the
following:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2920278621

You may want to add another to your collection?

Barry


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:48:44 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Original Collins Prototype Found

If you want more information on this car VIN #20 we have an article on it in 
the next issue of DeLorean Car Show Magazine.

go to deloreancarshow.com and click on the magazine for a subscription

Ken
DeLorean Car Show Inc.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:06:40 EST
From: beatlesra1_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Delorean

Micheal,
My mine did the same thing as yours, the problem was that the fuel pickup 
hose had a split in it so when the tank got half full the car would sputter 
badly, this is an easy fix.

Chuck
Vin #6125


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:09:43 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: DeLorean Car Show Magazine

We have the second issue ready for print and binding and will probably do 
that early next week.  

It is our plans to have this issue out in about 2 weeks.  We will be getting 
to a more normal 6 months between issues from this point on.

Articles that we have in the second issue include but are not limited to 

1. Dinner with John DeLorean
   (Some of the highlights of my dinner with John including pictures)
2. Information on VIN #20 preproduction car.
    (This is the car that is being discussed on the DML)
3. Dave Tietlebaum (hope I spelled it right) tuning up the PVR
    (This is an excellent article)
4. D-Rex at the Monster truck show
    (Awesome, what more can I say)
5. Curtis and his Car (painting it red (w pictures) 
    (and no rain in sight) 

and 10 more articles for your enjoyment.

The magazine is full color and can be ordered by going to the web page at 
Deloreancarshow.com

Thanks again for your support 
This is your magazine

If you want to have an article in the magazine please submit it to us.

Thanks

Ken
DeLorean Car Show Inc.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 20:49:26 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <DMCVegas_at_dml_lvcm.com>
Subject: DeLorean/LMC Snow Groomers

Well don't ever let it be said again that DeLorean products don't 
perform, nor handle well in the snow! :D

This is indeed a VERY interesting link. And even so, these little 
snow groomers have quite a bit in common with thier Stainlesss 
cousins from Belfast. After a little bit of research, LMC is indeed 
out of business (filed for bankruptcy in 2000). Although coincidence 
enough, there appears to be quite a simular support network of 
messageboards for repairs, a vendor network for parts supplies, and a 
new company called VMC who is trying to pick up where the former 
company left off. Kinda sounds alomst like the same situation we're 
in right now with our cars!

There is much more info that remains to be discovered it appears, so 
if I find anything else out, I'll post it to the group. But here is 
an excerpt from a webpage I found giving a quick summary of the 
companies history as a whole.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



Recently, while researching DeLorean cars to satisfy a curiosity, I 
uncovered a piece of very interesting information. The fact: DeLorean 
also manufactured snow cats. 

The idea of a DeLorean snow cat triggered a new curiosity. So, I set 
off in my usual frenzied search for information, and what I 
uncovered, is an astounding story beginning with Thiokol, and ending 
somewhere between NASA, Dopplmayr, and Chapter 11. 

Originally, this was supposed to be an article about the DeLorean 
snow cat. One thing led to another, and before I knew it, DeLorean 
wasn't really the center of the story. 

Lets start with Thiokol in the present day. Thiokol currently 
manufactures rocket boosters, including the boosters on NASA's space 
shuttle fleet. 

Prior to the 1970's, Thiokol was a leader in the manufacture of 
mechanical systems. They designed and built chair lifts, and 
manufactured a line of snow grooming equipment. Even today, you'll 
spot the occasional Thiokol lift or Thiokol snow cat. 

During the 1970's, NASA was in the research and development phase of 
its reusable space vehicle program. Thiokol came up to the plate in 
1974, and was awarded a contracts for solid rocket booster research, 
design and testing. 

Two men employed at Thiokol in 1974, were Jan Leonard and Mark 
Ballantyne. Both men got their start in the lift industry by working 
for the two leading lift manufacturers. One at Thiokol, and the other 
at Hall Ski Lifts. 

Lift manufacturing at Thiokol continued until 1976, when NASA 
accepted their design for the space shuttle rocket boosters, changing 
the company's fate. Deciding in the interest of focusing on rockets, 
Thiokol decided to exit the ski industry. Jan Leonard and Mark 
Ballantyne left the company to form their own company, CTEC. 

The newly formed CTEC took 2 years to evolve, and in 1978, they 
purchased Thiokol's lift designs and inventory. The first lift 
manufactured under the CTEC name, was a triple chair built for Seven 
Springs, PA. 

Thiokol began looking for a buyer interested in purchasing their snow 
cat/groomer business. 

Shifting focus for a moment to DeLorean... 

Practically everyone is familiar with the DeLorean car. Yes, its the 
model used in the movie "Back to The Future". 

The DeLorean car, a radical new sports car with gull wing doors, was 
manufactured in Scottland between 1981 and 1983 by the DeLorean 
Manufacturing Company (DMC), founded by General Motors veteran John 
DeLorean. The manufacturing facility and DMC project was financed by 
the British government starting in 1979, in the interest of creating 
jobs in Ireland. 

Unfortunately, only 8,583 of these cars were ever produced, and DMC 
came to an abrupt end amid accusations of scandal. John DeLorean was 
charged with misappropriation of public funds, and the DeLorean car, 
was finished. 

How does this relate to Thiokol? 

John DeLorean, sometime between 1978 and 1979, picked up a personal 
project for his own enjoyment. He purchased Thiokol's snow cat 
manufacturing business, and renamed it Logan Manufacturing Company, 
after its location of Logan, Utah. Logan was made a division of DMC 
and became known as LMC. 

LMC seemingly thrived under the direction of John DeLorean, but it 
became rumored that funds from the British government intended for 
DMC were secretly funneled to LMC. None of this was ever proven. 

LMC continued to grow into the late 1980's, producing DeLorean's snow 
cats. 

In 1988, John DeLorean was caught in a drug raid, suspected of 
cocaine trafficking. Mounting legal expenses forced him to sell the 
Logan Manufacturing Company. He was later acquitted of the charges. 

Several employees of LMC in 1988 stepped up to purchase the company. 
The business slowly declined throughout the 1990's, ending in Chapter 
11 bankruptcy sometime around 2000. 

LMC snow cats are still a common sight on the slopes, although most 
are aging with the grace of a lumbering monster. Next time you see 
one, look at the simple LMC logo. Compare it with the DMC logo of a 
DeLorean car. The two logos have a similiar style ... futuristic "D" 
or "L", followed by the same styled futuristic "MC". 

Final notes... 

In the years following the acquisition of Thiokol's lifts, CTEC grew 
steadily and merged with Garaventa AG in 1999. Forming Garaventa 
CTEC, the North American division of the Garaventa Group. 

In 2001, the Garaventa Group merged with Dopplmayr, another large 
world-wide lift manufacturer. 

So, now you know the story of Thiokol in the ski industry, and how it 
ends somewhere between NASA, Dopplmayr, and Chapter 11.




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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 21:15:09 -0000
From: "fivetwofive" <CBL302_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Re: Fire in the engineroom or- 20 knots and no smoke

Rich,
It could have been a lot of factors,one could have been a case where 
a mouse chewed on the wire,causing it to have a lot of resistance,or 
it just being dry rotted,remember any wire exposed to the elements or 
a high heat area,SHOULD be inspected,and or protected,as the cars are 
22yrs old,AND having crappy British wiring from the early 80's,does 
not help things,I would estimate upwards of 80% of fires in Deloreans 
are caused by electrical problems,and having a battery sitting BELOW 
the main harness/fuse box does NOT help things out(after 22yrs of 
acid fumes spewing all over the main harness,you would wonder how 
there were not more fires)and then to top it off a wooden cover over 
that,and a plastic cover over the fuse box,causing high heat buildup.
The problem with the Delorean was that it was engineered with Minimum 
Standards,instead of maximum Standards/Tolerances,witness the frame
(made out of too light of a gauge metal),the crumple area in front 
that had to have a recall to reinforce,the weak area above the front 
wheel wells,that will shear the complete nose off the car,in a major 
accident,and that is only the structural areas,also the other under 
engineered areas,are the alternator,the front suspension,clutch 
line,fans,radiator,coolant tank,tail light circuit boards,fan fail 
circuit,and many more I cannot think of right now.Where JZD spent 
most of the money on the car itself was on the flashy items,such as 
the SS and the Gullwing doors and the torsion bars,and how the 
interior looked,and basically depended on Lotus engineering,to work 
out the engineering,which was a conflict of interest,since they had 
their own cars that they were trying to sell/engineer to the American 
public/general public,it was NOT in their best interest to engineer 
a "better" sports car,so hence,scrap all previous,engineering,and 
engineer what we all have now sitting in our garages,complete with 
all the above problems. 

Just one last thought,I remember in the early eighties(1984) A friend 
of mine had a Delorean,which he let his Girlfriend use,and as she was 
driving on a major road,some guy,pulled up along side of her and 
started screaming and honking his horn,like a psycho person trying to 
get her to pull over,unknown to her,her(boyfriends) Delorean was on 
FIRE,and because she was going at a good rate of speed all the smoke 
was being blown BEHIND the car,so that she never even knew the car 
was on fire,until that guy pulled up along side of her (kinda like in 
those old western movies where the train is blowing all that black 
smoke behind itself,but the conductor sees/smells none) My point here 
is, NEVER let your girlfriend drive your Delorean!!


Claude
00570



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Richard Acuti <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> During my DeLorean educational process I have noticed an alarming 
number of pictures of torched D's on various websites on the Internet.
I'm so creeped out by this, that I've mounted an extinguisher 
behind my seat. What was the most common cause of engine fires? Of 
Delorean fires in general?



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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 21:20:03 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Delorean

Classic symptom of a fuel pick-up hose either damaged or not 
installed properly. The hose goes from the bottom of the pump to the 
fuel pick-up screen in the bottom of the tank. A hole in the hose or 
a loose hose will cause this. The fuel pump picks up fuel until the 
fuel level goes below the pump at which time it picks up air.

John Hervey's specialTauto.com has some good info on the fuel filter 
and the different types you can encounter.

Harold McElraft - 3354


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Mike Miller" <msmiller9732_at_dml_a...> 
wrote:
> here is my problem, when my fuel is about at 1/2 a tank the cars 
starts to sputter a little bit.



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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 21:30:07 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Door Lock Problem

The linkage needs adjustment inside the driver's door. There is a 
service bulletin ST-10-8/81 that can carry you through the 
procedure. It sounds like the rear lock link has loosened up on you.

PJ Grady has a publication will all of the bulletins, etc. If you do 
not have one - you should.

Happy adjusting - Harold McElraft - 3354



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, lhemb_at_dml_a... wrote:
> I am having a door lock problem that I need some help with.
> 
> Brian McCabe & Harvey (5830)
> Florida Panhandle



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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 21:36:51 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Fire in the engineroom or- 20 knots and no smoke

Are you describing the distributor cap itself where the coil wire 
connects? If you are, I'd say you have lots of resistance in the 
plug wires too. Best replace then, put in new spark plugs, dist. 
cap, rotor and coil wire.

Harold McElraft - 3354


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Richard Acuti <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> During my DeLorean educational process I have noticed an alarming 
number of pictures of torched D's on various websites on the Internet.
> 
> Uh...I feel that I must admit that one reason I'm asking this is 
because I was idling mine after some repairs tonight. It was dark, 
and I noticed a tiny, tiny glow on the distributor cap... Help.
> 
> Rich A.
> #5335



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