From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1454
Date: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 5:44 AM

To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

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To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews

There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Water leak continues...
From: "Jason Jones" <jason_at_dml_pcupgraders.com>

2. Re: DeLorean Lawyer News Story
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

3. Re: Delorean Lawyer
From: Ava Sarfaraz <asarfaraz_at_dml_comcast.net>

4. rotor removal, ball joint removal
From: <ken_at_dml_odoc.ca>

5. Butler New Jersey Club Chairman?
From: <condoluci_at_dml_tiscali.co.uk>

6. i'm also running rich!
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

7. Club Mag article on DMC in Bangkok?
From: "Ian Foster" <ian_at_dml_netvigator.com>

8. Delorean For Sale
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

9. Re: rotor removal, ball joint removal
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

10. Re: Water leak continues...
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com

11. brakes need bleeding again?
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

12. Re: running rich??
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

13. RE: Water leak continues...
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

14. Hooray for the modifieds!
From: James A Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>

15. Re: rotor removal, ball joint removal
From: "ksgrimsr" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>

16. Re: running rich??
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

17. Rear speakers
From: "Chris" <chris_at_dml_internets.freeserve.co.uk>

18. Re: Water leak continues...
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

19. Re: Help with Speedometer
From: "aaron_t_graham" <aaron_t_graham_at_dml_yahoo.com>

20. Re: Re: Idle Problem
From: tonilfhs98_at_dml_aol.com

21. British car show in Townsend, TN
From: <eric_at_dml_seviernet.com>

22. Re: Re: Lowered suspension
From: Steve Deichman <swdeichman_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:52:31 -0400
From: "Jason Jones" <jason_at_dml_pcupgraders.com>
Subject: Water leak continues...

Water leak sorta found it is coming in around the top right over the edge of
the headliner in from of the visor. The fiberglass under the headliner right
where it meets the top of the inside windshield.  I opened the door and ran
water in the area at the top and watched it run down the side like it should
and I did not see any leakage.  I shut the doors and ran water across the
top where the T-panel is and man it just poured in.  So I suspect the leak
somewhere under the T-panel between the doors since all of my work on the
doors I knew it could not be leaking from there.  So any ideas on how to get
the T-panel off to inspect further?  Thanks for all of your suggestions!

Jason




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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:10:41 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Lawyer News Story

[MODERATOR NOTE: This message approved on the merit of its "thank you" content, and the fact that the DML does allow editorials that are free of personal attacks.  If anyone responds with this or any other off-topic conspiracy theory, I will reject it.  The Internet offers many places more appropriate than the DML to discuss such thoughts.  - Mike Substelny, taking over as this week's moderator.]

Robert,

Thankx for airing that JZD story on the DML.  Though the whole JZD story 
is very sad and terrible, the fact that our government would do this 
type of thing and the american press would print such lies disgusts me 
even more.  Even to this day, the press won't tell the truth and the 
American public still believes the lies.

The question is what else does the government lie to us about?






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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 17:17:23 -1100
From: Ava Sarfaraz <asarfaraz_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Delorean Lawyer

I am greatly saddened by this current event, without him JZD probably would
be in jail.

[Incredibly long quote snipped by moderator]



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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:13:08 -0400
From: <ken_at_dml_odoc.ca>
Subject: rotor removal, ball joint removal

 
I have my brakes apart. how the heck do I get this front rotor off the
assembly .. 
 
I have the caliper off. and upper and lower control arms. its all
separated I just cant get the darn rotor off!!
 
While I am on the topic. what is the best way to remove the lower ball
joints from the lower control arm. and is the only way to remove the
upper ball joints to drill out the 4 bolts?
 
Suggestions? What am I missing here...
 
Thanks
Ken
5541
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:56:02 +0100
From: <condoluci_at_dml_tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Butler New Jersey Club Chairman?

Hi,

Hope someone out there can help, particularly in New Jersey USA.  Is
anyone aware of a one-time Delorean Club Chairman that lived in Nutley
New Jersey.  All I have is his 2nd name - Butler.  I know his wife's
name is Anita Butler and they lived together in Nutley Ave, Nutley NJ.

Can anyone possibly confirm this for me.  Regrettably the gentleman
passed away around 1994/5.  His Delorean was sold on after his passing -
it was said he owned 2.

Many Thanks

B


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:40:47 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: i'm also running rich!

List,

i have been reading the current conversation about cars running rich.  i have 
a similar problem with only one hang-up - my car starts every time and runs 
well!

usually the car starts right up and begins to seek, after about a minute, the 
seeking is done and the idle is fairly stable.  however once i start to drive 
and i arrive at idle, i am usually seeking quite a bit up and down.  
sometimes the needle will dip so far down my oil and charge lights will 
flicker until the RPMs go back up!  but it never dies during this or runs 
strangely.  

i'd just leave it alone but my car ALWAYS smells like terrible exhaust 
especially right when i start it up with thick dark smoke coming out of the 
pipes for a bit. also i only get about 130 miles to a tank of gas.  i had no 
idea i was so crappy on milage until another owner (who probably drives about 
the same as i do if not a little more aggressively) gets at least 200 miles 
to a tank.  obviously something isn't right here.

i have replaced most of the fuel system and whatever wasn't rebuilt was sent 
to grady for testing and cleaning.  the ignition system is all new (coil, 
cap, rotor, wires, plugs, battery), and i have a cat eliminator installed as 
well as a K&N air filter.  i have replaced all vacuum hoses and any other 
questionable parts.  my car has acted like this since i bought it in late 
2000, so i hardly notice the rich exhaust but everyone else does!  

can anybody give me any ideas on where to look?  

and with the cat eliminator pipe, should i have my timing adjusted? how much 
and in which direction?

Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:37:02 +0800
From: "Ian Foster" <ian_at_dml_netvigator.com>
Subject: Club Mag article on DMC in Bangkok?

Hallo DMCers,

I've just got back in from a weekend in Bangkok, where I eventually met the
DeLorean owner featured in a Thai Auto-magazine back in 1998.

The owner, Mr. Pravut Kanchanawat, had sent a translated version of the 1998
article to the DeLorean Club in USA for publication in their magazine.
Unfortunately he never received a copy of the printed article and would
obviously love to have a copy.

Does anyone on the List know how I can source a copy of the magazine for
him? Does anyone in the USA Club remember seeing this article and have a
reference date/mag# for it?

Any help would be gratefully received. A copy of the Thai magazine article
can be seen at the following web-

http://www.thaiantiquecar.com/editor.htm#

Regards,             IAN (HongKong)
*****************************





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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:56:18 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Delorean For Sale

Since I have not been able to sell this car yet I have finally been 
able to get it up on E-bay. For those of you looking for the bargin of 
the year try this one! It is opening at $4,500. Happy Bidding!
1982 5-speed gray interior. Motor runs, needs tires, windshield, 
driver's seat leather, power antennae, cooling system maintaince, 
tune-up, headliners and a really good cleaning. S/S has 2 small dings 
but otherwise very clean exterior. Get this one in time for the Spring 
Social nearby!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757




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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:05:20 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: rotor removal, ball joint removal

Hi Ken

Both ball joints can be a pig to get out of the hub carrier - you may 
have to invest in a ball-joint splitter to get them out. The lower ball 
joint is press-fitted into the lower control arm and retained with a 
large circlip. The upper ball joints were originally fitted with four 
large (what look to me like) rivets. It states in the manual that 
service replacements will use nuts and bolts. I have not done this 
myself (yet) but I would probably try using a quality chisel, or failing 
that, careful use of an angle grinder to take the tops off.

Martin

ken_at_dml_odoc.ca wrote:

> 
>While I am on the topic. what is the best way to remove the lower ball
>joints from the lower control arm. and is the only way to remove the
>upper ball joints to drill out the 4 bolts?
> 
>Suggestions? What am I missing here...
> 
>Thanks
>Ken
>5541
> 
>





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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:03:34 EDT
From: Senatorpack_at_dml_cs.com
Subject: Re: Water leak continues...



 The removal of the Stainless panel between the two doors is very easy. Refer 
to your DeLorean workshop manual. 

The "trick" to new sealant is to clean, clean, and clean again. You can 
pinpoint the actual sealant failure with some compressed air.

Best Wishes,
Mike 



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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:18:33 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: brakes need bleeding again?

List,

this weekend i installed stainless braided brake lines and a new master 
cylinder.  we flushed and bled the system with castrol GTLMA.  now it seems 
like my brakes aren't quite as responsive as they used to be.  they go down a 
little further than they used to and it takes more force to get the same 
stopping power.  

i checked all the connections and nothing seems to be leaking so i assume the 
system is good and sealed. does this mean i should bleed the brakes again?  
does the master cylinder need to be seperately bled?  any help is greatly 
appreciated.  

Andy

Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:49:43 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: running rich??

It sounds like the cold start valve is staying open. It could be stuck 
or somehow it is getting electric and being kept on. Try removing the 
plug to it after you get the car started and see if that helps. Make 
sure there is NOTHING plugged into the hot start relay plug in the 
wiring harness by the fuseblock. DO NOT FUSS WITH THE MIXTURE 
ADJUSTMENT! It can't change by itself and if the mixture is off that 
isn't going to fix the problem. If the car ran well before something 
did change to cause this but turning adjustment screws won't fix this, 
they didn't magicaly turn themselves to cause this! Check the vacuum 
hoses going to the control pressure regulater on the left side of the 
motor, sometimes knocking a hose loose can cause this.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "honda250r1989" <sky250r_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I have an 83' dmc w/ 19k miles.
> I tried to start it this spring and it would not fire.
> After replacing the coil and cleaning some connections, it fired up.
> But now it runs like the fuel line goes strait to the 
intake,extremly 
> rich with large amount of white/ brownish smoke rolling out the 
> exhaust, with a clear and black gas smelling liquid leaking out the 
> exhaust. 
> I got it to start a few times like this and it runs smooth at above 
> 3000 rpm or so, but the lower the rpm the worse it runs, needless to 
> say it won't come near an idle.
> I'm gussing this problem has some thing to do with the fuel pres. 
> reg. but I am hoping to hear from some one that knows more about 
> deloreans than I do.
> Thank Ryan




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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:41:48 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Water leak continues...

I had the same problem not too long ago. My ultimate solution was to take
the t-panel off and apply a thin bead of clear outdoor caulking along the
top of the windshield. Fixed it right up!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Jones [mailto:jason_at_dml_pcupgraders.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 9:53 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Water leak continues...
> 
> Water leak sorta found it is coming in around the top right over the edge
> of
> the headliner in from of the visor. The fiberglass under the headliner
> right
> where it meets the top of the inside windshield.  I opened the door and
> ran
> water in the area at the top and watched it run down the side like it
> should
> and I did not see any leakage.  I shut the doors and ran water across the
> top where the T-panel is and man it just poured in.  So I suspect the leak
> somewhere under the T-panel between the doors since all of my work on the
> doors I knew it could not be leaking from there.  So any ideas on how to
> get
> the T-panel off to inspect further?  Thanks for all of your suggestions!
> 
> Jason
> 




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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:23:11 -0400
From: James A Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Hooray for the modifieds!

hey all,

I was just down at Moroso Motorsports Park in West Palm Beach, FL, for an
NHRA sponsored car show.  1537, the 3-rotor frankenlorean just won a 3
foot statue for best exotic!  hee hee!

Jim

PS.  Still for sale, http://www.eliseusa.com/rotary.htm

________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com



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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:40:02 -0000
From: "ksgrimsr" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>
Subject: Re: rotor removal, ball joint removal

I just installed new lower control arms on my car and in the process 
also replaced all the bushings, ball joints, rotors, and bearings. 
I'll send in a report on my experience with my new control arms in a 
separate message.

To get my front rotor off I pulled the hub off the stub axel, and 
then on the workbench the rotor can be unbolted from the hub.

After removing the large nut holding the hub to the sub axel, the 
hub/rotor assembly can be pulled off the stub axel. In my case, the 
inner sleeve of the bearing did not want to let go of the axel, so I 
had some trouble getting the hub/rotor assembly pulled off. I 
resorted to use of a puller than ended up wrecking my bearing 
(fortunately I was planning on replacing the bearing anyway). A 
little tapping on the inner bearing sleve that was sticking to the 
axel resulted in it letting go.

In my case I had the lower control arms out, so replacing the ball 
joints in them was easy. There is a snap ring retainer on the top. 
After it's removed the ball joint can be pressed out. The new ball 
joint is pressed back in before the snap ring is replaced. Doing it 
on the car would be a little more cumbersome since you don't have 
the arm out for easy access, but doing it on the car would eliminate 
the need for pulling the springs out. Pulling the springs out is not 
that hard and you probably want to replace the inner bushing on the 
control arms anyway since you're doing all the work on the front.

The factory lower control arms are pretty soft, so pressing the ball 
out isn't very hard. I found that my large bench vise was sufficient 
to press the ball joints out/in. You need approrpaite spacers 
(usually pieces of pipe or leftovers from bearing sleeves) to use 
for pressing. Alternatively, take them to a machine shop.

The top ball joint is factory fastened using non-serviceable 
fasteners. Using a Dremel or other cutting tool, cut the 4 nubs off 
protruding from the top of the top control arm flush and the ball 
joint will come out. The new ball joint uses nut/bolts for fasteners.

    Knut


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, <ken_at_dml_o...> wrote:
>  
> I have my brakes apart. how the heck do I get this front rotor off 
the
> assembly .. 
>  
> I have the caliper off. and upper and lower control arms. its all
> separated I just cant get the darn rotor off!!
>  
> While I am on the topic. what is the best way to remove the lower 
ball
> joints from the lower control arm. and is the only way to remove 
the
> upper ball joints to drill out the 4 bolts?
>  
> Suggestions? What am I missing here...
>  
> Thanks
> Ken
> 5541
>  
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:50:55 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: running rich??

Fuel system-wise, my DeLorean was a basket case when I bought it. 
Lines were hooked up wrong, etc. Consider that your primary pressure 
regulator (an integral part of the fuel distributor) may also be 
stuck. 

The fuel pump outputs FAR more fuel than the engine could ever use. 
The regulator allows a portion of that to return to the tank 
depending on your need at the moment. If it's stuck shut, that extra 
fuel has to go somewhere (ie the cylinders). Mine was rusted shut in 
place.

Rich
#5335

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "honda250r1989" <sky250r_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I have an 83' dmc w/ 19k miles.
> I tried to start it this spring and it would not fire.
> After replacing the coil and cleaning some connections, it fired up.
> But now it runs like the fuel line goes strait to the 
intake,extremly 
> rich with large amount of white/ brownish smoke rolling out the 
> exhaust, with a clear and black gas smelling liquid leaking out the 
> exhaust. 
> I got it to start a few times like this and it runs smooth at above 
> 3000 rpm or so, but the lower the rpm the worse it runs, needless 
to 
> say it won't come near an idle.
> I'm gussing this problem has some thing to do with the fuel pres. 
> reg. but I am hoping to hear from some one that knows more about 
> deloreans than I do.
> Thank Ryan




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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:36:12 +0100
From: "Chris" <chris_at_dml_internets.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Rear speakers

For those who want to replace the stock rear speakers I have found Kicker
K410 are a 99% match and fit perfectly. I found them in the US for $70 in
the UK they are 70!!

http://www.kicker.com/Closeup.cfm?menu=midtweet&image=/images/2002/products/
K410.jpg

Regards

Chris S
UK






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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:41:03 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Water leak continues...

Before you take off the T-Panel, remove the top window cover of the 
windshield and inspect for openings in the sealing bead along the 
top between the windshield and the body. I had a leak that dripped 
right into my lap in a heavy rain or when I drove. I tore everything 
apart looking for that leak. What I finally discovered was that 
water was coming up under the cover when I drove creating the leak 
or, in a very heavy rain, water would run under the cover at the T-
Panel joint. In your case a similar leak could be near the center of 
T-Panel area where water could come in from runoff. My leak was a 
simple fix of cleanup and high-grade black silicone pushed into the 
hole.

You will find it - Harold McElraft - 3354


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Jason Jones" <jason_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> Water leak sorta found it is coming in around the top right over 
the edge of
> the headliner in from of the visor. The fiberglass under the 
headliner right
> where it meets the top of the inside windshield. 




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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:48:09 -0000
From: "aaron_t_graham" <aaron_t_graham_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Help with Speedometer

Ah, yes...the notorious angle drive.  Whoever came up with the 
mechanical "angle drive" technology for automobiles should have been 
fired on the spot.  Certainly, by the time that automobiles had 
speedometers, that kind of technology should have already been 
considered primitive and unsatisfactory.

The angle drive on my car went out about 4 months after I bought it.  
Later, I had the angle drive replaced while my car was getting the 
lowered suspension at DMC Houston.  Three months later, I made sure I 
greased the angle drive.  Three months after that, it also stopped 
working (It worked intermittently for about two days).

That was almost two years ago.  I haven't bothered to replace the 
angle drive again.  I did call PJ Grady once to see if I could get 
a "hardcore" model, but they said they didn't have any in stock.  
They also told me that I should wait, because they're working on 
a "better solution".  DMC Houston also claims to be working on a 
solution (digital, if I remember correctly).

After all this time, I've pretty much given up wishing for a good 
replacement (even though I would easily spend upwards of, say, $400 
for a GOOD, PERMANENT solution).  I figure that my speedometer will 
never again rise above 0.  On the upside, at least my car will never 
have more than 34,000 miles.  :)

Aaron





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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:01:51 EDT
From: tonilfhs98_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Idle Problem

I had that happen to me and I thought it was the cable also but turned up to 
be the ECU.  The one behind the driver's seat.  The best way to check that 
would be to swap it with a known good one.
Bill K


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:48:12 -0400
From: <eric_at_dml_seviernet.com>
Subject: British car show in Townsend, TN

Hey everyone

There's a British Car show coming up in Townsend, TN on May 3. It's a cool show with many fine British cars, including a few DeLoreans. 

I plan on taking my car to the show this year, although she wouldn't win any prizes. If anyone in the area wants to put there car in the show (just for show, they're too scared to make us compete against the other British cars),  they have until April 10 for early registration (sorry about the short notice, I just found out yesterday and I'm already a bit of a procrastinator). Follow the link below for contact information or you can email me off list and I'll point you in the right direction

http://clubs.hemmings.com/frameset.cfm?club=blountbc

If you're in the area, come on by. It's a fun gathering and I recommend it to any car enthusiast.

Eric Itzel
vin #4433
eric(AT)seviernet.com






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:32:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Deichman <swdeichman_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Lowered suspension

What is the "Marty Maier's shock set-up"??
where can this info be found?
Thanks,
steve 10005
 
 
> Soma576_at_dml_aol.com wrote:James,
>
> i have the exact same setup as Harold - Grady's lowered
> front springs with Marty Maier's shock set-up. Marty's
> rear shocks have an adjustable collar so you can adjust
> the ride height a little. on my car, the rear is lowered
> just a little and the front wheels has equal spacing all
> the way around the wheel well - which is the way it should
> look, IMHO. i haven't ridden in enough other D's to attest
> to how much of a difference this suspension setup makes,
> but i do know that i definitely prefer my DeLorean to my
> 1990 cutlass supreme!
>
> i also agree with Harold as far as the front end goes -
> sometimes it feels a little loose but i also need new tie
> rod ends so maybe it's not the suspension's fault. either
> way, i'm sure it's better than the stock ride and it
> certainly looks great too!
>
> Andy



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