From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1457
Date: Thursday, April 10, 2003 4:03 PM

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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Gas Tank Cleaning/Flushing
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

2. Re: PRV engine output
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

3. Re: Re: Engine Performance questions
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

4. Re: Re: Engine Performance questions

5. Delorean needed for prom in Cincinnati...willing to rent for $
From: "tnconlon" <>

6. Re: Gas Tank Cleaning/Flushing
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

7. RE: Re: Lowered suspension
From: Steve Deichman <>

8. Front side marker lights not working
From: "dmcorlando2003" <>

9. Re: Re: brakes need bleeding again?
From: Bob Brandys <>

10. Re: brakes need bleeding again?
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

11. Re: DeLorean Lawyer News Story
From: "Donald Ekhoff" <>

12. Attention owners in DE

13. Roof Light Disassembly
From: "Gary Weaver II" <>

14. Re: Gas Tank Cleaning/Flushing

15. Fwd: PRV 500 HPs?????

16. Re: PRV 500 HPs?????

17. Oregon Club events?
From: "Adam" <>

18. Delorean at Disney

19. Re: Gas Tank Cleaning/Flushing
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

20. Re: Tellus Carriers
From: "B Benson" <>

21. ebay twin turbo
From: "ferdaniraphael" <>

22. RE: Re: Lowered suspension
From: Dick Ryan <>

From: "delor_01" <JOHN.JORDAN_at_dml_ED.GOV>

24. Re: running rich??
From: "cruznmd" <>

25. Re: Front lower control arm replacement
From: "ksgrimsr" <>

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:29:03 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: Gas Tank Cleaning/Flushing

Acetone will dissolve the tar-like deposits, but give it a good scrub 
with household cleaning products too and make sure to dry it thoroughly.

Martin wrote:

>What is the best method of cleaning out the fuel tank? Just drop and scrub,
>or is there any cleaning agnets out there that would assist? Thanks.


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:27:49 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: PRV engine output

The big problem with all below the "light cost effective" suggestions 
relate to the odd-firing of the DeLorean PRV. My engine guy has said 
that you can only really go higher than  230hp reliably on a 2.85l 
 odd-fire PRV by upping the idlespeed and using daft cams. For practical 
use, 220-230 is the maximum. A little more can be had with the 3l 
pistons, lightened to the same weight as 2.85. This is as high as you'll 
go with the engine *looking* stock.

Martin wrote:

>[MODERATOR NOTE: The message forwarded to the DML from another list.  Mike Pack got the author's permission to reproduce it here.  -Mike Substelny, DML moderating team]
>This information was sent to me from the PRV Six engine list. 
>Best Regards,
>Mike Pack
>Without knowing what kind of PRV engine is in question, and targeted power
>level, it is difficult to give pinpointed engine tuning advice. Of course
>there is best practices to follow, here is my thoughts...
>Probably 'routes' to increase an PRV engine output is;
>For 'light cost effective' tuning (natural aspirated);
>- increase induction system efficiency (headers, free flow mufflers, larger
>exhaust pipes and maybe inlet manifold, throttle body etc.)
>- install 'performance' camshafts or camshafts from more powerful PRV model
>like Peugeot ZPJ. (check the current and Peugeot engine firing order
>- tune fuel delivery and spark advance in dyno.
>- or maybe complete engine swap, with necessary electronics.
>- install Kemira metal catalysators.


Message: 3
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:31:14 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: Re: Engine Performance questions

It's amazing how different the exhaust sounds if you forget to screw the 
lambda sensor in... (been there, got the T-shirt.... and have the 
embrassing moment on video!)


David Teitelbaum wrote:

>There is no quick bolt-on thing that will improve performance much.
>The engine package is a very engineered, balanced system. If you want
>to change the sound of the exhaust there are some modifacations you
>can do but don't expect much.
>David Teitelbaum
>vin 10757


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:37:15 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: Engine Performance questions

If you want to upgrade your engine performance and the "sound" of the 
exhaust, it can be done by getting a new header and exhaust system from 
Stainless Exhaust from England.  

I just got the system installed into my DeLorean two weeks ago.... It added 
more "pep," but don't expect hi-performance miracles.  The exhaust sound is 
louder, like a "souped" up Japanese car.  It is great for the younger owners. 
The only draw back is, now I can't hear the my sound system without cracking 
it up, for there is a "little" droning noise in the cabin at differnt RPMs.  
All in all, I can live with it.  It has changed my driving habits, for it 
feels like a different car with pep.... Not sluggish anymore.

Total system cost?  With "cats" over $1,800 US dollars, without $1,400. US 
dollars.  It is very well engineered and beautifully fabricated.  Muffler is 
LIFE TIME GUARANTEE!  Excellent bending and welding job.   No kinks in the 
pipes and no chicken "turd" welding at the joints   <A HREF="">Free-Flow Exhaust Modification</A> 

It is so beautiful  :-)    Rob at PJ Grady likes it too. 

Too bad it can't be exposed as a "art"....

Kayo Ong
Lic. 9D NY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 21:14:58 -0000
From: "tnconlon" <>
Subject: Delorean needed for prom in Cincinnati...willing to rent for $

Hey there,
             Since I unfortunately do not yet have a DeLorean of my own, my friend 
and I decided we needed a very suave car to use for the prom (since we don't 
have dates yet!)  If anyone in Cincinnati is interested in letting me use their D, 
or letting me rent it from them for a day, please email me at  It would be taken to Union Terminal(Downtown) for prom 
and then back to the owner's house.  Don't worry about the condition of the 
car, I am not picky.  It may come down to renting a Corvette if worst comes to 
worst.  :)

Thanks a million!


Message: 6
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 21:21:16 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: Gas Tank Cleaning/Flushing

There is no need to remove the fuel tank from the car. After removing
the fuel pump, boots, pick-up hose, and baffle drain out whatever
liquid is still inside. Wipe out with paper towels or rags. If there
is any stubborn residue it can usually be removed with a rag soaked
with acetone. Be careful not to break loose the stud in the tank.
Thououghly clean ALL of the parts and really get the tank as clean as
you can. You should be able to put a white paper towel in there and it
should come out white. Be very careful as gasoline vapors are EXTREMLY
FLAMMABLE. Dispose of any fuel soaked rags properly and do this in a
well ventillated area preferably not in a garage. 4 years isn't that
bad, it should clean up easily. I had to clean out a tank on a Jaguar
that sat for 20 years. It smelled like shoe polish and the residue had
the consistancy of play-dough. I had to have the tank steamed out
twice. It did seem to preserve it though, the tin-plate inside was
shiny after it cleaned up! When you get the car going drive it for a
while and then change the fuel filter. You may also have to have the
fuel injectors cleaned.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In, MPolzin_at_dml_s... wrote:
> I'm going to be starting work on another car here rather quickly,
and this
> one has been sitting with gas in the tank for at least 4 years, so
the first
> thing I want to do is address the fuel system on this car before
> to turn it over.
> What is the best method of cleaning out the fuel tank? Just drop and
> or is there any cleaning agnets out there that would assist? Thanks.
> Mike


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 17:53:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Deichman <>
Subject: RE: Re: Lowered suspension

Thanks Ski,
i may go with the rear shocks based on the ability to adjust the height!
but the soft feel on the front is not what i would perfer.
thanks, steve
 "W.\"Ski\" Lukowski" <> wrote:Hi Steve 10005,

I just ordered Marty's set-up and it should be here at the end of the
week. He is extremely nice and helpful guy. His stuff can be found at:

I hope this helped....let me know..


Ski 4649

[long quote trimmed by moderator]


Message: 8
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:07:01 -0000
From: "dmcorlando2003" <>
Subject: Front side marker lights not working

Hey guys,

I just replaced my headlight switch (LMS) and it works, however the 
amber marker lights on the fenders don't work now (they worked 
before) either with or without the headlights on.  All other lights 
work just fine. 

I tried a search but couln't find anything on this....any ideas on 
where to look for the problem?

Vin #2944

BTW thanks to all of you for the help on my last post about my speedo 
not working.  It proved to be a bad angle drive...


Message: 9
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 15:43:57 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <>
Subject: Re: Re: brakes need bleeding again?


I agree with you on starting with the closet cylinder first.  I have 
heard of the other way, but never could under stand it.  I don't even 
like the idea of "pumping up" the brakes. All this does is solublelize 
small bubbles of air that can later coalesce and soften or lower the 
brake pedal.

I start with the shortest run.  IMHO  this minimizes dissolved air as 
you work you way back.  

Had a friend last year who could not get the brakes to bleed on his Met. 
 He tried and tried with the longest run first.  I told him to do the 
shorten run first and the first time it worked.

Had a new college automotive kid stop by asking about brake bleeding. 
 His teacher had taught him to do the longest first.  I told him to 
challenge the teacher to explain why this is the "right" way to do it. 
 His reponse was because the book say so. :-D   He didn't know why.

My theory is that if you are pressure bleeding this can work.  However, 
if you are doing the "up and down" two person method, you create a 
slight vacuum when you take you foot off the pedal.  This dissolve air 
into the front brake lines so that when you bleed them you leave some 
air in and have a soft pedal.  

Starting at the back just doesn't make sense to me, unless someone has a 
good explanation.



Message: 10
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 21:03:19 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: brakes need bleeding again?

Some of the reasons for doing it in the sequence I recomend are the
By bleeding the cylinder closest to the master cylinder you get most
of the air out first with the next one in line not having as much to
bleed to flush out the air (and old fluid).
Any dirt in the system is removed quickly without going to the
furthest cylinder and travelling through the whole system and possibly
getting stuck.
If you haven't disconnected any lines in the rear then you don't have
much air to get out anyway, just old fluid.
When starting by the front left wheel you will have to refill the
master cylinder often, flushing out the master cylinder so you can
keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't go empty.
I have learned to do it this way so this is the way I do it!
I know the manual says to do it Harold's way but I have done it my way
and it seems to be successful so I guess it can be done either way.
                A DISCALIMER
On a system with ABS you MUST do it as per the manual or you can
damage the system and, or not bleed it thouroghly.
The Delorean doesn't have an ABS so it isn't as critical.BTW keep in
mind that there are actually 2 separate systems here so as long as you
do both wheels on an axle before moving to the other axle as a
practical matter I guess it shouldn't make a big difference. I picked
up this habit before they had split systems.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In, "B Benson" <delornut_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> I'm a bit curious why you would use this bleeding sequence. I've
always had
> the understanding Harold's was the way it should be done. Just to
refresh my
> memory I referred to several repair manuals including Chilton's,
Haynes and
> others. Regardless of the type of vehicle, the procedure in every one of
> them was exactly what Harold recommended, starting with the wheel
> from the master cylinder and working up to the closest. I'm sure you
have a
> reason for doing it a different way and maybe you could enlighten us.
> Bruce Benson
> > I disagree with
> > Harold's sequence, I start closest to the master cylinder >ie; front
> > left, front right, rear left rear right unless you are reverse
> > pressurizing the system but that takes special equipment.
> > David Teitelbaum
> > vin 10757


Message: 11
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 18:48:44 -0700
From: "Donald Ekhoff" <>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Lawyer News Story

Dear Mike

Thanks for clarifying policy on what is appropriate to post to the DML.  I
am sure there is a lot of "off-topic" conspiracy therorys out there but I am
also sure there is a lot of facts in this topic area that could be shared
with the DeLorean community that might not be available from any other
source.  We all have a vested interest in knowing the facts as they have
developed over the years if for no other reason so we do not continue to
spread misinformation ourselves.  We are often asked what happened, and I
for one would love to be "brought up to date".  Also (off topic?) what, if
anything, has developed with regards to Colin Chapman's disappearance and
did the DeLorean money play a part in it?  Last I heard there was an audit
being done on the subject.  I love the car and to me this is an important
part of the car.

Don Ekhoff
Vin 6543 +

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Brandys" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] DeLorean Lawyer News Story

> [MODERATOR NOTE: This message approved on the merit of its "thank you"
content, and the fact that the DML does allow editorials that are free of
personal attacks.  If anyone responds with this or any other off-topic
conspiracy theory, I will reject it.  The Internet offers many places more
appropriate than the DML to discuss such thoughts.  - Mike Substelny, taking
over as this week's moderator.]
> Robert,
> Thankx for airing that JZD story on the DML.  Though the whole JZD story
> is very sad and terrible, the fact that our government would do this
> type of thing and the american press would print such lies disgusts me
> even more.  Even to this day, the press won't tell the truth and the
> American public still believes the lies.
> The question is what else does the government lie to us about?


Message: 12
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:00:14 EDT
Subject: Attention owners in DE

Dear group,
       I will be in Delaware a few days next week with some spare time on my 
hands.  I would like to possibly meet up with owners in the area for friendly 
DeLorean chat.  I will have free time on Wednesday, April 16th and possibly 
Friday, April 18th.  Anyone who would be interested, please contact me off 

Darren Decker    

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 13
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 22:10:34 -0500
From: "Gary Weaver II" <>
Subject: Roof Light Disassembly

Strange Question...

Just HOW do you take the three position interior lamp apart? I want to check
the front lamp to see if the bulb is out and I'll be damned if I can see how
to do it.. The last thing I want to do is tear this thing up...



Message: 14
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:20:50 EDT
Subject: Re: Gas Tank Cleaning/Flushing

Mike, I clean them out in the car w/o having to take them out. Pull out the 
baffle system and the sending unit and with a little Berrymans B12 in a 
vented area go after it.
John Hervey

<< I'm going to be starting work on another car here rather quickly, and this
 one has been sitting with gas in the tank for at least 4 years, so the first
 thing I want to do is address the fuel system on this car before attemping
 to turn it over.
 What is the best method of cleaning out the fuel tank? Just drop and scrub,
 or is there any cleaning agnets out there that would assist? Thanks.


Message: 15
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:29:08 EDT
Subject: Fwd: PRV 500 HPs?????

This information was supplied by Mr. John Lane of Pacific Rim Automotive in 
Seattle Washington. John as given his recipe for making his PRV powered rally 
car into one fast machine.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 16
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 06:34:19 EDT
Subject: Re: PRV 500 HPs?????

This information was supplied by Mr. John Lane of Pacific Rim Automotive in 
Seattle Washington. John as given his recipe for making his PRV powered rally 
car into one fast machine.



Subj:    Re: PRV 500 HPs?????
Date:   04/09/2003 8:41:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: (John Lane)

Hello to all who are interested in making their PRV break drivetrain parts.
I have been hugely successful in doing just that.

I have had a number of queries as to how I have made my toy just sooo darned
silly fast.   Here goes.....

I am using the engine block with the cross-bolted main bearings and oil to
water oil cooler  as used in the Volvo B-280.
I am using the cylinder heads of an Eagle Premier/Dodge Monaco, as the
intake ports of the Premier are MUCH better then Volvo used.   Set them side
by side to see how Volvo managed to choke the V-6 back to making less power
then the turbo-4.
The heads got ported on the intake side to tidy up a bit, and a LOT in the
exhaust to help that ugly mess.
The camshafts of the Volvo flavor will give better top end power, and alloy
rocker arms are readily available from Volvo.  The Volvo cams are of the
mechanical variety, so you will get to adjust valves.   I have not tried the
Premier cams with their hydraulic valve lash adjusters for anything but a
street engine,  but in that form it ran just fine naturally aspirated.  The
Premier cams are certainly of the flavor which will make for more low end
I use the throttle body as used in the Volvo engine as it is of larger
diameter, and it is aimed better for the turbo.
For pistons I am using J&E forged slugs with a dish in them to drop
compression to 8 to 1.
I am using the liners from the Premier for three liters of displacement.
More cubes is more fun all else being equal.
I have learned the hard way that the standard connecting rods are not up to
the task.   When it blew up,  all the rods except for the one that made
shrapnel were shorter by one to two mm.  Too many parts were missing from
the broken rod to guess how much shorter it was before it expired.   Yikes!!
Forced induction will push a LOT harder on everything.
My answer for that was to pick out an Eagle Racing connecting rod (think
Merikanski V-8 stuff which is made by the bajillion and therefore relatively
affordable) which is close dimensionally to what we need and have the
machineist go wild to make 'em work.   Lots of effort for rods which have
not had to be babysat since.  Just the way I like 'em.
The whole rotating mess got balanced with the flywheel and the clutch.
The turbo is a nice big T-04 that I had made up for me based on my
The turbo manifold was made up special to get from the exhaust manifolds to
the turbo.
I use an HKS external wastegate, and am as tickled as can be with how it
works.  I am not fond of internal wastegates.   Boost creep and other
Oil gets to the turbo via a metal braided hose which is tapped into the big
plug next to the oil filter.  I have never checked my oil pressure, but have
had zero oiling issues.  If it don't sieze, it has to be all good right? I
use Mobil One synthetic oil.
Oil from the turbo drain gets back to the pan via the hole in the upper pan
(as used in Volvo) next to the hole used for the dipstick.   Volvo used this
hole in the 760 for an oil level sensor.  We don't need it.   We service and
pay attention to our engines right?
The turbo feeds it's warm compressed air to a Ford Powerstroke Diesel
intercooler fitted in front of the radiator.   Ignore what the naysayers
snivel about with having a huge intercooler.   It is the ONLY way to go
compared with a smaller less efficient unit.
Fuel and ignition is handled with Electromotive  laptop programmable fuel
infection and ignition.  With this system, or a similar arrangement one can
have perfect drivability with legal emissions and monster power in boost.
Careful though.....One is only a couple of keystrokes away from blowing it
up should you get it wrong.  It is the incentive program.....Do Not get it
I had the nice folks at Electromotive supply me with the proper size
injectors along with a fuel pressure regulator and all the GM sensors I
needed to do this.   It uses a MAP sensor, so no air mass meter to fail, or
be in the way of free flowing air.     Now I have a MAP sensor to fail, but
have not experienced that yet.
I am using the fuel pump arrangement as used in later model Mercedes V-8 and
V-12 cars.   This an arrangement that the wrecking yard will be happy to
sell you for around $150.00, and it will feed as much power as we are going
to make.  You will need larger fuel supply lines.
I am using the exhaust manifolds of the Volvo as they clear my steering
linkage.   The manifolds in the Premier look better for flow,  but will not
fit in my car without a lot of work.   The Volvo manifolds do not seem to be
slowing me down. : )
My flywheel is the Volvo thing; lightened on the brakelathe, and then fitted
with a Quarter Master three disc clutch.  The  On-off switch which WILL
apply all that power.
WARNING:   This combination has resulted in my breaking EVERY part in the
drivetrain downstream of the engine.
It will make HUGE torque,  and everything must be up to the task,  or you
will have many expensive misadventures with breaking things in inconvenient
places.   All in good fun though.
I have had a few folks ask how much dough it takes to do this.   The short
answer is a LOT.  I did my project slowly over time.......Electromotive got
done while it was naturally aspirated.   It made a noticable improvement
over K-Jet.
This is not a project for the weak of spirit or those of us who are wanting
a very straight forward swap.   It is a lot of work, and has made my
rallycar what I believe to be one of the most amusing to drive and watch
here in the states.
I went out of my way to NOT keep track of how much dough I have in this
project......Remember......Complete drivetrain, suspension and brakes to go
with this.   One must not just bolt in a stoopid fast engine and expect to
not have to attend to stopping or turning at high speeds.   Forgive the
Go git  'em guys and gals.


Message: 17
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:23:10 -0000
From: "Adam" <>
Subject: Oregon Club events?

I was wondering if there are any plans in the works for a Delorean 
get together for Oregon this year. I missed last years do to work. I 
really want to attend this year! 

Adam 16683


Message: 18
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:35:42 EDT
Subject: Delorean at Disney

I just wanted to let everyone know that from now until the end of the Summer, 
one of my Deloreans are booked to be on display each weekend at Walt Disney 
World. If you happen to be in Orlando, either email me or stop by Pleasure 
Island's main entrance Friday and Saturday nights from 8P-Midnight. There are 
a few isolated weekends that it won't be there; Apr 25 & May 5th.

It's been good exposure for DeLoreans, several thousand people get to see it 
and ask questions.
Does anybody have a sign that says "NO, he's not in jail!" that I can borrow?

If your gonna be in the 'hood, drop me a line!

Daniel Deutsch (Orlando)
VIN's 3356 & 15779

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 19
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:23:58 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: Gas Tank Cleaning/Flushing

I will agree that you CAN clean it out while in the car, but it's a lot 
easier out.... and if my and my friend's project cars are anything to go 
by, taking it out can yield some nasty surprises in the form of flaking 
epoxy from a leaky brake master cylinder which collects under the tank 
and along the lower edge of the frame. I suggest if you're going to 
clean it and there's evidence of rust down there, drop the tank and use 
the opportunity to wire brush and paint the affected chassis areas. 
Almost the entire top side of the fuel tank flap was flaking and rusty. 
Luckily all surface rust though. I will try to take some pics of my 
project car to show you what I mean.

#4426 wrote:

>Mike, I clean them out in the car w/o having to take them out. Pull out the 
>baffle system and the sending unit and with a little Berrymans B12 in a 
>vented area go after it.
>John Hervey


Message: 20
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:30:59 -0500
From: "B Benson" <>
Subject: Re: Tellus Carriers

 > Found some information on the web about those >infamous Tellus carriers
> during DeLorean assembly.
> Best Wishes,
> Mike P

The Tellus carriers have been talked about as the greatest innovation since
the assembly line. In reality they have many drawbacks. In DeLorean's case
they worked great. The plus side meant that expensive conveyor systems
didn't need to be installed. One could easily pull a unit out of sequence if
anything needed to be corrected. That and any rerouting of assembly
operations in the future would only require moving the guidance wires in the
floor. The major drawback with this system is that it's not very compatible
with automation. We experimented with a similar system at our Ford plant
using carriers built by Volvo. Robots, for example, can be repeatable within
a few thousands of an inch with body spot welds and fixtured machines that
tighten various subassemblies can be reliable IF a carrier stops in exactly
the same place every time. Put a spot of oil on the floor, embed a screw in
a carrier wheel or any number of other possibilities and the carrier misses
it's stop and even a small fraction means the fixed position automation misses
its mark. From what I saw of the DeLorean plant, that type of automation
wasn't a part of the system. That and the fact that no paint facility was
needed made things much less expensive to set up and operate. With the
low production level that was planned, the whole operation was very well
thought out. If they ever got to the point where they required production levels
anywhere near what many plants produce today, say 50 to 80 units per hour,
I suspect the Tellus carriers would have been phased out.

Bruce Benson


Message: 21
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:05:29 -0000
From: "ferdaniraphael" <>
Subject: ebay twin turbo

there's a Island twin turbo system on e-bay...



Message: 22
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:05:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dick Ryan <>
Subject: RE: Re: Lowered suspension

I have 20,000 miles on the midstate shocks which are
coupled to Rob Grady's 1.5" lower front springs. 
while they are a bit softer than the 20 year old
shocks, they are not "soft".  

Unless you are using your D in autocross or true road
racing events, these shocks should be just the ticket.
 They have made a very nice road car even nicer.

Dick Ryan
VIN 16867

--- Steve Deichman <> wrote:
> but the soft feel on the front is not what i would
> perfer.


Message: 23
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:03:08 -0000
From: "delor_01" <JOHN.JORDAN_at_dml_ED.GOV>





TIME			1pm UNTIL 3pm


SESSION	Inspection of the lower arms for signs of stress fatigue. 
There has been an increase in the number of failures.
Inspection of brake system pads, rotors and hydraulic fluids; both 
brake and clutch.

We will have a lift available thanks to the college. This is 
Great opportunity to use this facility on this date and perhaps on a 
continuing basis for tech sessions.  Please plan to attend. 


985 north to exit 16.(oakwood exit) turn left (west) to the second 
light and turn right into the Gainesville Community College 
entrance.  Continue 2 blocks to the Lanier Technical College on the 

We will have an update on the Cruise In for September

John Jordan
Southeastern Delorean Owners Club
404 562 6075   404 316 0673 cell 


Message: 24
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:16:02 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <>
Subject: Re: running rich??


I'm also running very rich so I've been following this conversation 

First question:  The three brass set screws on the intake near 
the "W" pipe. Two are for the cylinder banks and are supposed to be 
fully shut. That much I know. Is the 3rd one the mixture screw? Are 
all 3 supposed to be fully shut? If not, how can I best determine the 
proper position of that 3rd mystery screw? I don't have sophisticated 
test equipment.

Second question:  The yahoo owner before me, cranked them down so 
tightly, that when I checked them, the heads snapped off all 3 of 
them with almost no effort. I presume that an easy-out or similar 
extraction tool will remove them....right guys??



--- In, "honda250r1989" <sky250r_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I have an 83' dmc w/ 19k miles.
> I tried to start it this spring and it would not fire.
> After replacing the coil and cleaning some connections, it fired up.
> But now it runs like the fuel line goes strait to the 
> rich with large amount of white/ brownish smoke rolling out the 
> exhaust, with a clear and black gas smelling liquid leaking out the 
> exhaust. 
> I got it to start a few times like this and it runs smooth at above 
> 3000 rpm or so, but the lower the rpm the worse it runs, needless 
> say it won't come near an idle.
> I'm gussing this problem has some thing to do with the fuel pres. 
> reg. but I am hoping to hear from some one that knows more about 
> deloreans than I do.
> Thank Ryan


Message: 25
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:09:53 -0000
From: "ksgrimsr" <>
Subject: Re: Front lower control arm replacement

--- In, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
> A very informative post. Just 2 quick questions, did you weigh the
> origional and the S/S arms to see what the difference is?

> And how did the alignment set up (you did go to a front end
> shop and have the alignment checked didn't you?)

> I would also keep an eye on the bushing that went in loose.
> Maybe a spot of paint or nail polish as a witness mark...

I did not explicitly weight the control arms, but the new arms were 
noticeably heavier than the originals. The weight of the originals 
and of the stainless replacements is not substantial in either case, 
and the arms are a few pounds each.

I have been monitoring the bushing to ensure there is no motion 
since I had one press fit that was not as tight as I would have 
preferred. Your suggestion to mark it is a good one that I will make 
use of.

As you note, any time you do work on the suspension that has the 
potential to change the geometry, it is important to have the 
alignment checked/corrected. The following are the alignment figures 
from my realignment with the new control arms.

             LEFT       RIGHT
TOE         -0.02"      -0.02"
CASTER       3.67deg     3.84deg
CAMBER       1.36deg     0.01deg

As most folks are aware, only the TOE is adjustable when performing 
an alignment and all the other parameters are fixed by the geometry 
of the setup. In case some folks are not aware of the exact meaning 
of the three common alignment parameters, here is a brief tutorial 
(and my commentary on my specific values):

TOE: This refers to whether the two wheels are parallel to each 
other along the direction of travel. If the wheels are "cross eyed" 
it's referred to as "toe-in" and if they are "wall-eyed" it's toe-
out. Most alignments are set up for zero toe. The 20/1000th error in 
my alignment is in the noise as there is that much variance in the 
wheel rims to which the alignment equipment is attached. Since this 
is adjustable you'd expect that this can be adjusted to yield good 

CASTER: This refers to whether the axis about which the wheels pivot 
for steering is vertical (i.e. perpendicular to the road surface). 
The caster is affected by any modification in the ride height of the 
front of the car, and if you lower your front a little the caster 
will also change since the car will not be parallel to the ground 
any longer. I don't have the alignment report from my previous 
alignment, so I cann't tell if the caster has changed, but the 
caster measurement is reasonable in light of the DeLorean's overall 
configuration (larger wheels in the back) and the fact that my front 
is slightly lowered.

CAMBER: This refers to whether the front wheels are closer together 
at the bottoms than at their tops. As you can tell from my readout, 
the camber of my left front wheel is different from my right (it is 
perfect on the right side). A positive camber as measured for me 
indicates that the bottom of the wheel is closer to the centerline 
of the car than the top of the wheel is. This positive camber will 
tend to make the car pull to the left (the car will drift towards 
the side with the most positive camber).

Because the camber problem coincides with the side of my car that 
had the catastrophic control arm failure, it is possible that the 
discrepancy is due to a deflection of the mounts caused by the 
failure rather than due to a tolerance issue with the new control 
arms. I'll be taking my car to a frame shop to see about any 
straightening of the structural mounts (we're talking pretty small 
amounts of correction).

The slight camber offset I have is not noticeable in any pull of the 
wheel, and my car tracks perfectly straight. I'm not sure what 
effect the weight of the driver in the car has on the overall 
geometry, since the alignment is usually done with noone in the car 
(and most cars are driven with at least the driver in the car). With 
the driver in the car, the driver's side suspension will compress a 
little bit, and depending on the geometry of the suspension travel, 
this may impact the effective alignment while the driver is in the 
car. I'm also not sure if the camber changes with suspension travel 
for the DeLorean geometry (in some setups it is common for the wheel 
to tilt inward at the top slightly as the spring is compressed in 
order to provide good tire contact with the road during cornering).

Overall the car feels good to drive and it tracks straight without 
any drift and without any pull of the wheel. Because most roads 
around here are not perfect, it's difficult to make any real 
determination based on the feel since, the crown in the road likely 
has more effect on perceived alignment than the variance I have in 
my setup.



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