From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 1:10 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 1481

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There are 10 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: RPM Relay
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

2. Anyone in New Engalnd (or N.Y. or N.J.) wanna buy 3072?
From: Mark Fearer <mfearer_at_dml_mail.fearernet.com>

3. Re: Low mileage cars. (Was I cant be the only one)
From: "ryanjm10014" <ryanjm_at_dml_cox.net>

4. Re: Cleaning Wheels
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

5. RE: Low mileage cars. (Was I cant be the only one)
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

6. Re: Did tune-up, car still runs like crap
From: "Adam" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>

7. Faster than a DeLorean
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

8. RE: Re: RPM Relay
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

9. RE: RPM guage sticking
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

10. Houston Event
From: mroboto_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:23:04 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: RPM Relay

The Idle Relay is not in case of an accident. It's purpose is to only
allow the fuel pump to run when the motor is running or starting. It
prevents the fuel pump from running if the engine is not running but
the key is left on. Brett had the origional old style in his car and
Rob said they do fail but the newer replacement is more reliable. I
used a paper clip straightened out to jumper the relay. Only do it for
testing purposes, do not leave the jumper in there. I believe he had
several problems as when we got the car back to the shop I examined
the pickup hose in the fuel tank and the fuel level was very low even
after adding gas  and the hose was soft and kinked. The fuel baffle
was out of place too so on turns the pump would starve for fuel. These
hidden areas of the of the car are IMPORTANT. It is a case of "out of
sight, out of mind". If any of you haven't been in your fuel tank you
should have it examined and replace any deteriorated parts. His gas
gauge was reading 1/4 tank too so I think his origional sending unit
is less than accurate. We also had to deal with a weak battery that
probably should be replaced. Generally 1 problem dosn't get you, it is
a combination of little things that collectively catch you.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> I believe this was a safety feature of some sort, so car wouldn't keep
> pumping fuel in case of an accident that stopped engine. Is also what
> makes accumulator necessary (not just to start vehicle, but to smooth
> out all those pulses!). Was going to rig up a bypass switch (answer to
> whatever ailed #5939 in those heady early days. Same under dash switch
> has been used for EVERYTHING), then discovered myself how easy it is
> to jump during fuel system diagnosis. Except for inconvenience of
> pulling over, is now long term solution (don't all DeLorean owners
> carry 2 and 3 way jumpers in that little tray in back of console?).
> John Hervey has a nice pic everyone should familiarize themselves with:
> 
> www.specialtauto.com/delorean-images/rpm-relay-jumper.jpg
> 
> DeLorean owners do seem to have elevated concern for fellow motorists,
> eh? Wonder if you'd get same response in a Lexus...
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 

> > 83 #17006
> > 81 #3049




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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:48:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Fearer <mfearer_at_dml_mail.fearernet.com>
Subject: Anyone in New Engalnd (or N.Y. or N.J.) wanna buy 3072?

 Hi, all. Like a lot of folks these days, I am in need of cash. Vin 3072
is a 1981 non gas flap hood automatic tranny in good shape and running
good. _at_dml_ 32K miles. I would like to see someone familiar with DeLoreans buy
it, i.e., someone who knows the electrical caviats, etc.
 Make me an offer. I can e-mail pics on request.

Mark Fearer mfearer(AT)mail.fearernet.com
3072
Manchester, New Hampshire




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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:04:59 -0000
From: "ryanjm10014" <ryanjm_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: Low mileage cars. (Was I cant be the only one)

Noted, Martin. My point was that a sub-100 mile car is incredibly 
rare, and more historically and financially valuable if it stays 
under 100 miles and stock. A sub-10 mile RHD car is even more 
historically and financially valuable :-)

Ryan
#10014

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Martin Gutkowski <webmaster_at_dml_d...> 
wrote:
> Just FYI, Dave Howarth, DOC veteran owns an original right-hand 
drive 
> car with 3 miles on the clock. It runs.
> 
> ryanjm10014 wrote:
> 
> >
> >Other than a 54 mile car that was sold last year in AZ, which I 
have 
> >seen in person, I haven't heard of a lower mile car than this. 
> >Ryan
> >#10014
> >  
> >




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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:56:41 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Wheels

Get some sponge paint brushes; they are about $3 or 4 for a bag of 
various sizes, and some P21S Wheel Cleaner. The wheel cleaner can be 
found in most auto catalogs. It is a bit pricey, but it works 
without damage to the wheel paint, etc. If that combo does not clean 
the wheels then you need to recondition them.

Harold McElraft - 3354


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "kenndeal" <kenndeal_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> The outside of my wheels look fine but the insides need help. 
> Any ideas on how to clean them? It appears they were once 
> painted. Is this necessary?




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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:09:55 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Low mileage cars. (Was I cant be the only one)

True, but doesn't it defeat the purpose of owning a car? I'd wanna drive it!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ryanjm10014 [mailto:ryanjm_at_dml_cox.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 11:05 AM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [DML] Low mileage cars. (Was I cant be the only one)
> 
> Noted, Martin. My point was that a sub-100 mile car is incredibly
> rare, and more historically and financially valuable if it stays
> under 100 miles and stock. A sub-10 mile RHD car is even more
> historically and financially valuable :-)
> 
> Ryan
> #10014
> 




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:51:17 -0000
From: "Adam" <acprice1_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Did tune-up, car still runs like crap

Yes, I removed the intake manifold, I replaced the O-rings for the 
cold start valve, idle speed motor, the 6 main-o-rings, the two o-
rings and spacers in the the U-pipes, the gaskets for the U-pipes, 
and the main gasket for the air meter unit. 

To clean the injectors, i just sprayed them with carb cleaner to get 
the deposits off the sides, i was careful not to get any debris on 
the ends. I reused the old injector retainer clips.

I have not checked the timing yet, I will do that and the spray test 
you mentioned. Thanks for the help!

Adam Price
OR 16683

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> 
wrote:
> So many variables in one message...
> 
> Did you take intake manifold itself off (you mention O rings -- 
seals
> around ports on heads?). Is tricker to reinstall with air tight fit
> than I first realized. While car idling, spray carb cleaner around
> each port at head mating surface to see if any have vacuum leaks. 
Also
> spray each fuel injector port (you don't mention replacing the "top
> hats"). If removed, recheck the cold start tube (access between
> cylinders #1 and #2). Somehow ensure idle speed motor takeoff is air
> tight (suggestions anyone? I just stuck a big vacuum cap on mine and
> threw away). And spray the U pipes while you're at it.
> 
> Then variable #2...
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 
> >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Adam" <acprice1_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> > Yesterday I did a full tune-up, I used stock delorean components 
> > except for the plugs which are platinum +4. I cleaned many parts 
with 
> > carb cleaner, replaced some old vacuum hoses, replaced ALL 
gaskets 
> > and O-rings that have to do with the intake manifold, did valve 
> > adjustments for all valves and cleaned the fuel injectors.
> > 
> > Car fired right up, but still idled poorly, it smoothed out some 
as 
> > it warmed up. I took it for a quick 12 mile spin on the highway. 
The 
> > car seemed to have a little trouble going up hill, I had to give 
it 
> > more gas than usual to keep the speed up.
> > 
> > One thing to mention though is that the wires definatley needed 
> > replacement. they were so old and rusty that the leads broke of 
from 
> > the wires when I tried to remove them. Some of the leads were 
rusted 
> > to the tops of the spark plugs!
> > 
> > Adam 16683




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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:21:32 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Faster than a DeLorean

Yes, for some people speed IS the need. Technology is out there to
accomplish just that. But I'd contend, given cost and effort, this is
deal breaking issue for minority of DeLorean owners.

No one will argue that DeLorean performance from the factory matched
its appearance (I think JZD used PRV mostly because it was readily
available near point of production, wonderfulness of aluminum
notwithstanding). But 8,000 of the cars WERE saleable. Biggest gull
wing doors in the world wouldn't attract that many buyers it
accelerated like a clydesdale. 8+ seconds is "respectable". That means
people will neither fall over in awe, nor will they fall in laughter.

Poll would probably show majority of owners are "satisfied" with cars'
performance. Is not a deal breaker. Of course we'd all be tickled
silly if they were even faster. But are we willing to invest what that
requires? (and deviate from stock if a concern -- remember original
message wanted to "go a route closer to the cars heritage").

Comparison: I have a '79 Lincoln re-engined with '69 460 & trans. On
recent SC door trip (see message #31730), out-accelerated two little
silver cars (not by much, but their headlights did get smaller in the
rear view mirror). However the cost is 8-9 mpg, and a lot of money &
effort to get that plant into the car in the first place. Obviously I
think is worth it or I wouldn't have done it, but definitely puts me
in minority of Lincoln owners. And you'll notice I haven't done it since.

Word of caution: speed is a moving target. No matter what you've got
under the hood (in the trunk?), always will be SOMEBODY faster...

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount_at_dml_j...>
wrote:
> I'd like to offer a similar though completely opposite opinion.  
> 
> I'd like to suggest that for some people, the stock Delorean performance
> can very well embarass you at the stoplight.  My 300hp D is a
rocket, and
> i haven't run into anything on the road that can match it; but when
I get
> in my girlie's Corrado (which still has 178hp), it feels like a
minivan. 
> I was in an auto Delorean a couple months ago and I wanted to kill
> myself.  
> 
> Maybe I'm just spoiled with fast cars, or maybe the rest of you are
> driving your SUVs around too much.  The Delorean is a contender with
> large SUVs and not much else.  
> 
> About the 90 mile Delorean modifications, I think it really depends on
> where and how the car lived it's life.  My 30k mile car spent most
of its
> life outside, and looked like death warmed over.  I bet there are are
> nicer looking 5k and 10k cars than some of the really low mile ones.  
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:15:02 -0000 "content22207"
> <brobertson_at_dml_c...> writes:
> > Slow down and take a deep breath. Is $4200 yours, or was that work
> > reportedly done before you acquired vehicle? If latter, can not rely
> > on it -- you may just be in need of proper tune up and evaluation of
> > bolt on components (warm up regulator etc). A DeLorean running
> > correctly has anything but "disgusting" performance. Yes, it does 
> > look
> > a *little* faster than it in fact is, but will not embarass you at 
> > the
> > stoplight.
> > 
> > Bill Robertson




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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:14:57 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: RE: Re: RPM Relay

Is a big loop -- if not safety concern, what does it matter if pump
runs engine off? In theory injectors should be closed (air sensor
plate / fuel distributor piston closed). Not long ago helped a fellow
with an Audi (Bosch Jetronic of some ilk) that ran pump whenever car
was energized.

Obviously RPM relay signal not enough fast enough to pressurize the
system when starting, otherwise we all wouldn't have to replace our
fuel accumulators. 

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> The Idle Relay is not in case of an accident. It's purpose is to only
> allow the fuel pump to run when the motor is running or starting. It
> prevents the fuel pump from running if the engine is not running but
> the key is left on. Brett had the origional old style in his car and
> Rob said they do fail but the newer replacement is more reliable. I
> used a paper clip straightened out to jumper the relay. Only do it for
> testing purposes, do not leave the jumper in there. I believe he had
> several problems as when we got the car back to the shop I examined
> the pickup hose in the fuel tank and the fuel level was very low even
> after adding gas  and the hose was soft and kinked. The fuel baffle
> was out of place too so on turns the pump would starve for fuel. These
> hidden areas of the of the car are IMPORTANT. It is a case of "out of
> sight, out of mind". If any of you haven't been in your fuel tank you
> should have it examined and replace any deteriorated parts. His gas
> gauge was reading 1/4 tank too so I think his origional sending unit
> is less than accurate. We also had to deal with a weak battery that
> probably should be replaced. Generally 1 problem dosn't get you, it is
> a combination of little things that collectively catch you.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> > I believe this was a safety feature of some sort, so car wouldn't keep
> > pumping fuel in case of an accident that stopped engine. Is also what
> > makes accumulator necessary (not just to start vehicle, but to smooth
> > out all those pulses!). Was going to rig up a bypass switch (answer to
> > whatever ailed #5939 in those heady early days. Same under dash switch
> > has been used for EVERYTHING), then discovered myself how easy it is
> > to jump during fuel system diagnosis. Except for inconvenience of
> > pulling over, is now long term solution (don't all DeLorean owners
> > carry 2 and 3 way jumpers in that little tray in back of console?).
> > John Hervey has a nice pic everyone should familiarize themselves
with:
> > 
> > www.specialtauto.com/delorean-images/rpm-relay-jumper.jpg
> > 
> > DeLorean owners do seem to have elevated concern for fellow motorists,
> > eh? Wonder if you'd get same response in a Lexus...
> > 
> > Bill Robertson
> > #5939
> > 
> 
> > > 83 #17006
> > > 81 #3049




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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:21:15 -0400
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: RPM guage sticking

Have you worked behind the binnacle recently? Could be an electrical
connection in the back, but this would be the last place I check (since it's
such a pain to take the thing off).

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dmcorlando2003 [mailto:SundeQuick_at_dml_aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 10:55 AM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] RPM guage sticking
> 
> Every now and then when I am driving my RPM needle just freezes.
> Sometimes it will jump a little before it freezes.  Then after a few
> seconds it starts working again.  Happens at all different speeds and
> times.  Any ideas?
> 
> I've tried a search on it but couldn't find anything.
> 
> Michael
> Vin# 2944




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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:41:05 EDT
From: mroboto_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Houston Event

To all fellow Delorean owners:
 For those of you who have not been to either Ken's events or DMCH's, they 
are well worth the trip, even if you don't get to bring your car. The 
opportunity to meet fellow owners sharing stories and tips is priceless. The 
Delorean community is unique, and a great part of the joy in owning the cars. 

I am really looking forward to the DMCH event in Houston next month, and hope 
to see many of you there!

Ciao!
Daniel Deutsch (Orlando)
3356 & 15779


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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